Epoxy a 42' wooden hull with CPES system

[Leigh Turner]

I have a 42' wooden Trojan that leaks chronically and live in an area without competent boat repairmen. I am seriously considering using the CPES system followed by Elastuff 120. Has anyone had any experience with this? It seems like an ideal solution but would like input from someone who has used it.

Many thanks

[wolfietuk]

Leigh,
Cpes is not a cure all just a damn good sealer. I am using it on a much smaller restoration. Also it must be put on bare wood. The paint may last a lot longer is the biggest advantage. And I have used it in some rot repair. After you get out all the punky stuff it seals off the "wound".

Rick

[JimConlin]

You'r within 150 miles of a number of competent boatbuilders. Some of 'em will travel and boat truckers are reasonable, too. See the back pages of WB.

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

http://www.trojanboats.net/images/SeaHorse.jpg

This website might be helpful---> http://www.trojanboats.net/

[ 01-12-2004, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

[brad9798]

What do you mean by chronicly leaks? She is wood, afterall.

Bilge pumps go on once a day? Five times a day?

Do you know the source(s) of leaks? Could be shafts, or thru-hauls ...

She's a plank boat, she will leak a bit.

[Leigh Turner]

I have two bilge pumps...one of them is high capacity (1" discharge) and comes on approximately every 30 minutes, running for about 1 minute. The other, in the stern is a 5/8" discharge and comes on every 45 min running for about 1 1/2 mins.
I have tried sawdust, 5200, west epoxy, bottom paint, etc. and cannot pinpoint the leak(s) and have checked all through the hull fittings. I know that fibreglassing the hull is suicidal in the long run and have been told the cpes system is remarkable and am willing to give it a shot if it seems viable.

[brad9798]

CPES is a good sealer ... no doubt.

My concern is the every 30 minutes kicking on the bilge pump ... you've got some water coming in somewhere.

I would be more concerned with where/how it's coming in FIRST.

You got some leaky rot, some back fittings, transom issues ... or something.

Here's another thought- I had a problem similar to what you describe a couple of years back-- for life of me couldn't figue out where the leak was.

As it turns out, it was from my water system, not the boat itself. Had a very leaky fitting on a water line going to the fore head sink.

[Stargazer14]

I have a 67 Trojan Sea Skiff and was wondering what hull you had, to try and pin-point this problem.
Is it a plywood hull or plank? Lapstrake?
I seriously dont think CPES is at all your answer, as it is really just a great sealer, pre- paint, or a rot-stopper AFTER you have dug out whats bad. It is not a 'leak-fixer'.
A bit more info and maybe we can get this boat of yours a little drier....

[Leigh Turner]

The hull is carvel planked mahogany over plywood. I have checked all the pumps, fittings etc. and there are no leaks there. There appears to some leakage on the transom, some along the chine on the starboard side, but again it is impossible to pinpoint. There is no sign of any rot below the water line. According to the manufacturer of CPES, if the hull water line down is stripped, then the CPES applied, the CPES permeates the wood and then acts as a bonding agent for the Elastuff 120 which, when several coats are applied, provides a permanent, flexible, 1/8 - 3/16" covering of the entire bottom. Seems plausible since the Elastuff was originally developed as a permanent epoxy covering for wooden stair treads in public buildings.

[ChrisConnie]

Your gonna have to strip the whole bottom to bare wood no matter what type of repair you choose. If your going to go to that much trouble I would repair what is wrong instead of hoping for a miracle cure. If you strip it, slather it in goop and it still leaks your gonna have a HUGE mess on your hands.

I did this same sort of job on my 59' CC Connie this summer. Bilge is bone dry now and I didn't have to use any "magic" goop to make it happen. Strip the bottom, find the problems, and fix what's wrong properly. Recaulk all your seams with seam compound and move on. The boat has lasted this long without the goop. There is no reason to ruin it now.

[gunsmith]

It's too bad you regard glass polyester or glass epoxy "suicidal". In actual fact it would mean salvation and long term dry life for your boat.
:( :(

[Allen Foote]

Leigh,
You've got something else going on with that hull. You should first identify where the water is comming in at and repair whatever that is. You may have electrolic damage to you strut blocks or rudder blocks ect. BUT for that kind of water flow....it is more than "excessive seepage". And CPES is a primer NOT a sealer.

[Paul Scheuer]

It's a little hard to tell from the pump timing what the actual leak rate is, but I'd agree with Allen, you've got something serious going on, if the pumps are going off every 45 minutes.

Maybe some of the experts here can suggest methods of leak detection. I've heard of using dyes, temporarily blocking off sections of the hull internally for isolation, using tape or saran wrap outside (temporarily) and peeling back sections. There must be more.

[Leigh Turner]

One of the problems I am encountering is that the boat is on Moosehead Lake in Northern Maine near the Canadian Border. Not only are there no expereinced wooden boatwrights here, but there are no marine railways or travel lifts and the only way to haul the boat from the water is to hire a large wishbone hydraulic trailer to drive 4 hours from the coast and back again. Naturally, waiting time ain't cheap either. As you probably know, these rigs are quite expensive. When the boat is hauled in the fall, I see a some leakage at the bottom of the transom near the keel and some along the garboard strake, but it's very hard to tell exactly where and how much. I have gooped the daylights out of both these areas in past years. There appears to be none around any of the through the hull fittings. Would it be beneficial to try to fill the bilge from the inside before the spring launch and look for signs then?

[Leigh Turner]

Oh yeah...one other thing. Only a very small portion of the bilges are visible. The bilges can be inspected around the engines and for approximately 10' in front of them but the chine and the rest of the bottom is covered by flooring that is not designed to be removeable. That's it. The rest of the bottom (an additional 30+') are covered and inaccessible except the transom where I detect relatively little leakage by visual inspection once it has swollen up.

[Allen Foote]

If this is a plywood boat....then you only have a handful of places where the water can come in. Unlike a carvel planked boat where every inch of seams can be suspect. Any and all thru-hulls including shaft logs and the chines, keel, transum. I find it puzzling that you can't trace that amount of water. What is the pump rate per minuete of your pumps? As you've discribed them, its quite alot. If your looking to coat the bottom with CPES...WHY? The only thing bonding to it should be bottom paint....and if she's hualed out of Maine waters 4-6 months of the year...you don't need that kind of bond.
Sorry Leigh, but the more you discribe this boat...the less sense it makes.

Personally, I'd never own a boat without bilge access.

[ 01-18-2004, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Allen Foote ]

[Paul Scheuer]

I'd caution against filling a boat that size to the chines with water. You may end up finding the weakest link in its construction.

I'd spend the winter finding out as much as I could about the exact construction of the type. The potential leaks might become more apparent. Other owners would be a good source. They may have addressed the same problem.

One more off-the-wall idea for finding leaks, from the trailor sailor BB, seal off what you can and pressurize the the hull with air and look for bubbles.

One other thought. As my old truck got older, I ended up with several "access ports" in her. All that trim stuff is nice when they're new, but a PITA when the real/ frequent work starts.