Cost of building vs. cost of buying

[CartoonCrazy]

Trying to get a general idea of the cost difference between building and buying. Is there a considerable cost savings in building your own boat? Is cost savings a driving force in the decision to build, or does it have more to do with the love of building? What are the cost comparisons between building, buying used, and buying new?

Wondering more about sailboats and runabouts, rather than canoes and kayaks.

Just looking for general opinions and ballpark guesses. I could not find a similar thread, but I bet this question comes up a lot.

[GBVT]

Want to boat, buy; want to build, build.

[Lewisboats]

Relative...How much do you value your time? If you assign a $ or lb to your time then building a boat is more expensive in all but the smallest cases. You are better off buying used. If you value the experience and are willing to commit the time to building then you might break out even when building your own but you will come away with an experience that cannot be duplicated at any expense. Take your druthers.

[Daniel Noyes]

least to most expensive

buying used fixer upper (do it yourself)
buying used (usable condition)
buying used fixer upper (have pro fix it up)
buying used (bristol condition)
building new (D.I.Y.S.)
building new (Pro)
building new and factoring in the cost of the time you spent building it
buying used fixer upper (do it yourself and factoring in the cost of the time you spent repairing it)
buying used fixer upper (have pro do complete rebuild Eg. Fife, Hereshoff restorations)

It almost always takes longer to repair something than build that piece new the first time.

If you factor in the cost of your time invested the pro will be cheaper because they know how to do it quick and do it right to prevent future problems.

If you factor in the resale value of the boat after the work is complete this order could jump around alot.

Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[Capt Nat]

...I agree with GBVT...

[CartoonCrazy]

When I work for myself, I typically don't get paid.... but the hours are flexible.

Great information. It seems to break down differently than I thought.

More about the love of building, than getting more boat for the budget.... correct?

[Capt Nat]

...ya gotta really wanna do it CC...or it won't get done!

[Willin']

Another consideration, are you willing to 'settle' for someone else's idea of the perfect boat, or is it important that it be just the way you want it? If it has to be just so, I'd do it myself. Builder's prices do funny things when you try to get too custom.

[Pernicious Atavist]

I found that once I built [or rebuilt] the boat and sailed it for awhile, I was getting bored and looking forward to replacing it with a new one, that I would build....

[TerryLL]

Dan pretty well nailed it, though I would put buying a used boat that needs no immediate repairs as the least expensive, and the most immediately usable.

[CartoonCrazy]

...ya gotta really wanna do it CC...or it won't get done!

Understood and thank you.

There was a great article in the local news last year. I live in Portland Oregon and there was a builder who started building a boat 15 to 20 years ago. It was a good sized boat and he was building it in his yard near a very busy street. He finally finished it last year and the entire NW portion of the state was in an uproar. The builder had no idea, but almost everyone in the entire city and surrounding area had been watching the build and his project had become a local landmark. He was embarrassed when asked by the news crews why it took so long, but a family and life slowed him down.

My dad built an airplane (RV6). It took him 10 years and he loved every minute of it. Now he is building a car (Lotus L7) 2 years and counting. In between he made a telescope, shaping the glass by hand.

I am an animator. I do computer animation and stop-motion/claymation. "Coraline" is one of my companies movies. All hand made stuff, everything I work with must be invented, designed and fabricated. At home, I am restoring a car and turning another car into a rally racer.

I have read a lot of threads and I am starting to get a handle on the work and time that goes into boat building. Hard to get a handle on cost. It seems to vary wildly depending on the boat and the builder. I am dreaming about a boat that I would like, and contemplating the project. I like to design and build things. Right now I am trying to get a better understanding on what it would take and how to go about getting the boat I have in mind.

Again thank you to everyone. The information is great and incredibly helpful.

[peter radclyffe]

[quote=CartoonCrazy;2204980]Understood and thank you.

There was a great article in the local news last year. I live in Portland Oregon and there was a builder who started building a boat 15 to 20 years ago. It was a good sized boat and he was building it in his yard near a very busy street. He finally finished it last year and the entire NW portion of the state was in an uproar. The builder had no idea, but almost everyone in the entire city and surrounding area had been watching the build and his project had become a local landmark. He was embarrassed when asked by the news crews why it took so long, but a family and life slowed him down.

My dad built an airplane (RV6). It took him 10 years and he loved every minute of it. Now he is building a car (Lotus L7) 2 years and counting. In between he made a telescope, shaping the glass by hand.

I am an animator. I do computer animation and stop-motion/claymation. "Coraline" is one of my companies movies. All hand made stuff, everything I work with must be invented, designed and fabricated. At home, I am restoring a car and turning another car into a rally racer.

I have read a lot of threads and I am starting to get a handle on the work and time that goes into boat building. Hard to get a handle on cost. It seems to vary wildly depending on the boat and the builder. I am dreaming about a boat that I would like, and contemplating the project. I like to design and build things. Right now I am trying to get a better understanding on what it would take and how to go about getting the boat I have in mind.

Again thank you to everyone. The information is great and incredibly helpful.[/quote
when i was in yards, i watched how long it took to do things for the average shipwright, joiner, and wrote them down, i work out how long things take if things are running as they should, then i double the hours if im costing for a gang, say 10 or 20 workers, then when someone //has their // dog run over, lost their girlfriend, their gran died, they got stoned, their still hungover, the sky fell in , they gave birth, their poodle left them, they cant stand their haircut , they got in a fight, they crashed their bike, their bilge pump didnt come on, their car got nicked, their shooting the breeze, they cut their hand, they cant breathe, they cant count cos their too stoned, they fell off the scaffold, they tripped over their ego, and the thousands of other things that happen to us while were busy making other plans , i can still deliver the work on time, ive used this system i worked out for about 28 years and it still works, i once had a gang strait out of college, their teacher came with them, what a nightmare, i had to explain to them that the ratio of , chat 90% to , work 10% , in college was reversed when they get paid for , work 90% , and chat 10% , if you aim for that you may get 75% production, which is very good, things alter everywhere but you may be costing for a year or 2 ahead with a gang you dont know

[wtarzia]

Want to boat, buy; want to build, build.

--- No, it isn't so simple. If you want to boat and are financially stressed (or devastated) you may have to build if you have certain preferences. I wanted a sailboat I could keep in an apartment and transport on rooftop or in back of SUV/stationwagon (apartment complex permitted no trailers), with a budget under $500. I had to build. Later I wanted a better version of the outrigger sailing canoe I built the first time....I had to build again. I don't like building over sailing though building has some positives. But if your only need is to get on the water on *anything*, OK, yes, buying may be best. There's always a boat someone doesn't want. Also, ways to get free boats. (go see Tim Anderson's "free boat" entries at instructables.com). -- Wade

[davebrown]

building a 10-16 ft. plywood skiff is about as cheap as anything you can do, including buying used. and fun.

[johnw]

So, what sort of boat?

[JimConlin]

It depends a lot on what kind of boat you want. If the boat of your dreams is something that's common enough dream, chances are that it's been manufactured. That lowers the cost a lot and you can probably find such a boat on the used market.
If, on the other hand, you want something that's special in its function, aesthetics or performance, you might get lucky in the used market, or not.

I don't see much point in building a boat that's 'ordinary' in its function, aesthetics or performance if you can buy such a boat at lower cost. Right now, the market for used boats is soft and should be considered.

That said. I'm guilty of the distinctly non-economic behavior of building myself some boats, such as:
- a plywood pram tender, cause I needed one and it's lightweight.
- a couple of strip canoes. They take too much labor, but they're good boats, and attractive.
- a lapstrake pulling boat because I fell in love.
- A composite sailing trimaran. There just wasn't another fast (near 20 kt.) and pretty tri on the market.

And I've owned a couple of manufactured glass boats:
- a 35' cruising boat that served well for 25 years and is doing well at the age of 47. It sold for more than I paid for it.
- a chopper-gun 8' dinghy that continues to serve in the fleet.

Look at the market and assess the economics.

[Charles Burgess]

Trying to get a general idea of the cost difference between building and buying. Is there a considerable cost savings in building your own boat? Is cost savings a driving force in the decision to build, or does it have more to do with the love of building? What are the cost comparisons between building, buying used, and buying new?

Wondering more about sailboats and runabouts, rather than canoes and kayaks.

Just looking for general opinions and ballpark guesses. I could not find a similar thread, but I bet this question comes up a lot.

Generally it takes 1 man-hour of labor per 15 lbs of displacement using traditional building methods. I charge $75 per man-hour. The cost of materials is generally 25-33%, which is why a deposit of one third is required (at least I get the cost of materials up front). Thus, you can save from 66-75% on doing it yourself, not counting the cost of tools. What price can you put on the joy of sailing a boat you built yourself?

[Windsong]

Very nice of you Mr Burgess to give the proper insight into building a first class yacht.
Sincerely,
Lars

[Charles Burgess]

Very nice of you Mr Burgess to give the proper insight into building a first class yacht.
Sincerely,
Lars

Ooohhhh - for a first class yacht I'd have to charge more :D The above generality is for only minor amounts of bright work. Bright work increases the amount of time needed to build and finish the boat.

The labor rates for professional builders can run lower and higher than what I gave. The man-hour per 15 pounds of displacement is pretty much a constant for one-off traditional construction with normal wood working tools. There are time saving tools and techniques available but are rather too expensive for the typical amateur builder.

[JimConlin]

Generally it takes 1 man-hour of labor per 15 lbs of displacement using traditional building methods....
I think there's a typo here.
I have a hard time imagining at 12,000 lb. cruising boat in 800 hrs.
, a Haven 12-1/2 in about three man weeks
or a Herreshoff Columbia Lifeboat dinghy in 20 hours.

In other construction methods, where hours are spent to achieve lightness, the hours per pound metric becomes particularly silly. I know one owner-built composite multihull which took about 3 hrs. per pound.

[Spokaloo]

CC, what kind of boat are you considering?

Have a look around, visit with some locals in PDX that are builders. There are many, and you could look into getting involved with groups like the Coots, a small fraternity of lunatics and fringe types that are all builders and great guys to the last.

E

[James McMullen]

You know, any old fool can just go buy a boat, but it takes a very particular kind of fool to go ahead and build his own.

Personally, I don't build boats because I can. . .but rather because I must. Saving money has nothing whatsoever to do with it, cause I pretty much spend all my spare money on boats or tools anyways.

[peter radclyffe]

Generally it takes 1 man-hour of labor per 15 lbs of displacement using traditional building methods. I charge $75 per man-hour. The cost of materials is generally 25-33%, which is why a deposit of one third is required (at least I get the cost of materials up front). Thus, you can save from 66-75% on doing it yourself, not counting the cost of tools. What price can you put on the joy of sailing a boat you built yourself?
is that the addaggio by albinoni, its a fine intro

[stevedwyer]

Charles Burgess...
A wonderful start to your website.
I am eager to see some photos of your work, which at the outset, looks very fine indeed!

[Rum_Pirate]

The cost comparison depends on how much ($) you value your time.

What ever I think that you should cost out the materials as precisely as you can and calculate the exact time that you think you will need to do it.


Having done that strongly advise that you then double the estimated cost and triple the estimated time. Then you wil be close. :cool:


Regardless recommend that you buy or build whichever you consider will give you the greatest pleasure.

Whatever you do please continue to post with pictures on this forum :)

[Daniel Noyes]

What sort of boat are you looking for? some times a new build is the only way to go! especially if you learn to enjoy the project.
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[kendall]

I found that once I built [or rebuilt] the boat and sailed it for awhile, I was getting bored and looking forward to replacing it with a new one, that I would build....

I'm in the same position. Not too long after putting on the fiishing touches, I find myself browsing plans and used boat listings, or prowling the back lots at marinas, sometimes even before I put the finishing touches on.

I've come to the conclusion that I enjoy working on them more than actually using them.

If you look at the actual cost of building vs buying, buying is cheaper. But if you look at the building process as an enjoyable hobby, it can be cheaper than buying because it also covers a large chunk of your entertainment expenses.

Ken.

Edit: Without intending offense, I'd like to say that I really dissagree with people who say that it depends on what dollar value you assign to your time. Unless you are building the boat/car etc for resale, you are building it for your own enjoyment, or to fill that time as a hobby. If you weren't building the boat, you would be spending money to otherwise fill your time, so the value of the time would work out as a negative in most cases. I've had many people use the 'my time's too valuable' arguement with me, that spend an easy 20+ hours a week playing video games. (them: "Hey, I made Captain in Battlefield two, only took me a year!" Me: " Aww man, and all I got to show for my time is this boat...."

Ken.

[stevedwyer]

CC, I don't see that you've said what type or size you're noodling.
It's true to a degree that building a larger boat involves the same operations as a small one, but there is a break point,
perhaps at 20 feet or so, where materials and labor advance exponentially.
Adding an engine, exterior ballast, standing rigging and the like require highly specialized talents, not to mention proven designs.

I'd venture to say design/building a boat calls for knowledge and skills you have yet to discover.
It might make sense to build a small boat to quench your thirst, or whet it!

The underlying question of whether to buy or build ( or to undergo restoration ), even for the experienced builder, is What would you rather do, build or sail?
I'd have to say, some of the most well known yacht designers have favored their small boats. They simply get used more.

[S B]

Just adding something,my old man told me long ago, If your building something, the work is laid out, but in restoration/renovating every blow of the hammer the job gets bigger.

[paladin]

For me, building was the only option. I started in Multihulls...and the best way to get one was to build it yourself. Later...although I made excellent money by anyone's standards, what I really wanted did not exist commercially and would have cost five years wages to contract a custom boat.....I had excellent advice from some well known architects, which I did tend to ignore.....so I built a 44 foot on deck boat, I spent ywo months full time on the project, then 4-5 hours a day with 4-8 helpers to build the hull and decks, and then turned the final finish over to some Thai workers......then I went back to work to outfit it....The project in the U.S. was put out for bid starting with a well known builder in Texas, and 4 potential builders well known to woodenboat readers. Just the woodwork, hull, decks, spars, all finsh work, with chainplates and spar fittings, less sails engine and pumps/stove/etc....the lowest quote that I had was$320K in Texas...$400k Nova Svotia, $428K was the cheapest New England builder, and it went up from there. The same fit/finish/materials in Thailand cost me approx $150K and one year, and about $200K by the time she was splashed....this is approx 25 years ago......
In the last 45 days, I have received quotes for a 38 foot boat, to the same standards, of $238K less shipping and import duty from Thailand, and approx $50K more built in the U.S. with me supplying the engine and electricals, and most of the hardware for outfitting. The price of hardware has gone out of sight also.....the least expensive methodology would be to purchase a craft of the size that you want, strip it of hardware, and recondition it on your own time....and build what you want.....at your own pace. If you want to go sailing now then I would purchase a used plastic hull, clean it up...and go.....have fun....strip it when you're finished for the materials to outfit your hearts desire.

[Charles Burgess]

For me, building was the only option. I started in Multihulls...and the best way to get one was to build it yourself. Later...although I made excellent money by anyone's standards, what I really wanted did not exist commercially and would have cost five years wages to contract a custom boat.....I had excellent advice from some well known architects, which I did tend to ignore.....so I built a 44 foot on deck boat, I spent ywo months full time on the project, then 4-5 hours a day with 4-8 helpers to build the hull and decks, and then turned the final finish over to some Thai workers......then I went back to work to outfit it....The project in the U.S. was put out for bid starting with a well known builder in Texas, and 4 potential builders well known to woodenboat readers. Just the woodwork, hull, decks, spars, all finsh work, with chainplates and spar fittings, less sails engine and pumps/stove/etc....the lowest quote that I had was$320K in Texas...$400k Nova Svotia, $428K was the cheapest New England builder, and it went up from there. The same fit/finish/materials in Thailand cost me approx $150K and one year, and about $200K by the time she was splashed....this is approx 25 years ago......
In the last 45 days, I have received quotes for a 38 foot boat, to the same standards, of $238K less shipping and import duty from Thailand, and approx $50K more built in the U.S. with me supplying the engine and electricals, and most of the hardware for outfitting. The price of hardware has gone out of sight also.....the least expensive methodology would be to purchase a craft of the size that you want, strip it of hardware, and recondition it on your own time....and build what you want.....at your own pace. If you want to go sailing now then I would purchase a used plastic hull, clean it up...and go.....have fun....strip it when you're finished for the materials to outfit your hearts desire.

Given the limited details above, I'm guessing 14 tons or so, taking about 1800-1900 man-hours to build, thus my price would be roughly $175K (USD). This is the finished hull, deck, spars & basic traditional rigging. The custom features: engine; electricals; interior fitting out; custom rigging fixtures; paint and/or brightwork finishes; etc. - is extra. This is what I like to call 90% standard, with the remaining 10% is the custom work to meet the specific needs and desires of the owner. The last 10% can vary wildly in cost depending on what is desired.

[JimConlin]

Given the limited details above, I'm guessing 14 tons or so, taking about 1800-1900 man-hours to build, thus my price would be roughly $175K (USD). This is the finished hull, deck, spars & basic traditional rigging. The custom features: engine; electricals; interior fitting out; custom rigging fixtures; paint and/or brightwork finishes; etc. - is extra. This is what I like to call 90% standard, with the remaining 10% is the custom work to meet the specific needs and desires of the owner. The last 10% can vary wildly in cost depending on what is desired.
Hogwash!
The 'last 10%' (interior systems, canvas, sails, trimwork) takes at least 50% of the money.

[Charles Burgess]

Hogwash!
The 'last 10%' (interior systems, canvas, sails, trimwork) takes at least 50% of the money.

Yes....the last 10% can almost double (or more) the final price of the boat. Just like paladin's post was outlining the basic cost of building the hull, deck, and spars. At that stage the boat is 90% done. The final 10% is what can get real expensive. It is usually the last 10% that separates the traditional classic work vessels from the yacht.

I'll back up here a little to clarify: the $175K (USD) I mentioned includes traditional rigging, I include the traditional sails (in Dacron) as well. If you want more exotic sails and rigging then you'll have to pay extra. Think in terms of fittings, fixtures, and accommodations of what you'd find on a Gloucester fishing schooner of the late 1800's to early 1900's like the Bluenose or Columbia (the 14 ton boat is of course a lot smaller). To convert one of those vessels into a yacht would cost you double or triple of what it would cost to build her for her original purpose. Aye...the price of luxury.

[paladin]

You were close...the boat was a "Lyle Hess Type" Channel cutter design, 18 tons. The price of the hull deck spars etc included stainless standing rigging with sta-locks and cast bronze chainplates/spar hardware.....The additional expense was as much because I used Dickerson, Rolly Tasker sails (4) in tanbark, Two roller furling rigs, danforth and CQR anchors etc....at first I didn't have an engine, although I had allowed for it....and the finish was yacht finish....imagine a dozen plus Thai ladies sanding away all day...

[CartoonCrazy]

The boat I am thinking about is a runabout. Riva is highest on my list, then Chris Craft and the various and no less important runabout builders.

I like the layout of the large Rivas the best. Being an Oregonian, the canvas drop tops are a huge attraction. I also like the idea of a little cabin to sleep in for a night or two.

I ask the question, because with the runabouts, there seems to be a "collectible" premium. The Riva Aquarama sells for well into the 6 figures. There are kits out there that are similar in layout. Seems like an Aquarama could be home built for far less than $200,000?

I have not looked into sailboats enough to know if collectibility applies to them as much. I was curious how it applied to all boats in general (with the exception of the canoes and kayaks because they seem to have a different economic breakdown).

*I also posted about a wooden cigarette design I would like, but it would need to be designed, which would add cost. I need to read more to decide if this daydream has any merit.

** I think if you are going to build a boat for yourself, your time should have no monetary value when factoring cost. Deciding to build for me is about deciding if I want to dedicate the time and see it through, as well as how much money it will take. For me these questions are very separate issues. Both equally important. But the money question is the one I am trying to get a handle on here. Time I am getting a good feel of from all the build threads.

[paladin]

Riva....ouch...........What you spend building the hull will be negligible compared to the hours/hours/hours that you spend on the final finish.......and then comes the engine(s).....and if you replicate that....it will more than double your investment....If I were to build that one the entire boat would be marine ply, finished with mahogany veneer.....the first 6 months to build the basic boat, the next 18 months matching and finishing the veneer....it may be cheaper to order the boat from Thailand, less engine etc....

[CartoonCrazy]

CC, what kind of boat are you considering?

Have a look around, visit with some locals in PDX that are builders. There are many, and you could look into getting involved with groups like the Coots, a small fraternity of lunatics and fringe types that are all builders and great guys to the last.

E

One of the Old Coots contacted me and offered to let me drop by for a chat. Huge thanks! I may try to attend some of the clubs events this summer.

[Dave Wright]

Something no one has mentioned about the home built boat CC, is the possibility of the sad, unfinished boat. It's not uncommon but it doesn't get a lot of press. Be sure to give it a thought, particularly if you're contemplating a large pproject.

[CartoonCrazy]

Something no one has mentioned about the home built boat CC, is the possibility of the sad, unfinished boat. It's not uncommon but it doesn't get a lot of press. Be sure to give it a thought, particularly if you're contemplating a large pproject.

If I decide to go through with a boat build, I will most likely do a little project to "test the waters" so to speak. Something that I can tackle over the winter and float around in when spring comes. If I do not truly love the building part, I will not consider a bigger project, but look to buying. If I do not enjoy floating around... maybe I will take up golf.

My life is not in a state where building is practical in the next couple years. I the mean time, I am trying to gather the knowledge to make a decision about future boat ownership that best suits me.

[Robmill0605]

The reason to build at least for me ,is that the boats I am interested in are not available . I am interested in building an idea. The marinas are chock full of look- a -like 39 ft no- names. If you really want a 39 ft no -name clone then why go through the trouble of building one? Just go buy a 39ft no name.
Then the question remains can you afford a pro builder ?
I can't, so if I want a boat that is not in production that leaves building it. It does't matter for me if i can get it built in Thailand for 200k vs. 400k.:rolleyes:
The next reason for me is the challenge and satisfaction of building it myself, my way. Even if I could afford a pro builder, I'd still do it myself.

[CartoonCrazy]

Riva....ouch...........What you spend building the hull will be negligible compared to the hours/hours/hours that you spend on the final finish.......and then comes the engine(s).....and if you replicate that....it will more than double your investment....If I were to build that one the entire boat would be marine ply, finished with mahogany veneer.....the first 6 months to build the basic boat, the next 18 months matching and finishing the veneer....it may be cheaper to order the boat from Thailand, less engine etc....

If I cared less about "matching" the Riva, would it be cost effective? Cold mold with veneer... what ever engines are found cheap that fit the application... finish it with nice looking parts that are not Riva. Not looking to make a replica, just mimic the design.

[CartoonCrazy]

The reason to build at least for me ,is that the boats I am interested in are not available . I am interested in building an idea. The marinas are chock full of look- a -like 39 ft no- names. If you really want a 39 ft no -name clone then why go through the trouble of building one? Just go buy a 39ft no name.
Then the question remains can you afford a pro builder ?
I can't, so if I want a boat that is not in production that leaves building it. It does't matter for me if i can get it built in Thailand for 200k vs. 400k.:rolleyes:
The next reason for me is the challenge and satisfaction of building it myself, my way. Even if I could afford a pro builder, I'd still do it myself.

I think this would describe me as well, except I do not know anything about boat building other than what I read in a small pile of books and some postings here. Good start I think, but I am not quite ready to design and build that 45' Riva inspired wooden cigarette boat I am dreaming of. At least built in a way that would float right side up and not self destruct when given full throttle.

Just wondering what the cost in and outs are at this point. What am I better off buying or building. Deciding whether or not to build a boat is a huge question with a different answer for every person.

[paladin]

There are plenty of Riva type designs out there...some by Glen-L, available as partial kits or frame kits.....then could be veneered.....
The engine could also be a Chevy crate engine that you convert...either purchase the engine outright, or do it a small bit at a time to control the finances. I used a Ford 429 engine as the basis for my first boat, so far, only power boat....and despite my warnings, the fellow that bought it from me just had to see how fast it would go, ran out of room on the lake, and chopped the throttle a bit too suddenly, and the stern wave came aboard and sunk him....in about 6 feet of water.....

[Charles Burgess]

We can break it down even further. Let's take my estimate of paladin's 44 footer at 14 tons (yes I know it is actually 18 tons, but the math will work out the same) for $175K without engine and other custom yacht work: 90% done.

The cost is per pound of displacement = $6.25 for a pro-builder.

DIY = $2.08 per pound of displacement. (If you go with the home builder friendly strip/epoxy construction method - and doesn't include the cost of tools.)

For a custom design by a NA you can usually figure from 5 to 20% of the cost of the pro-builder amount. (Some NA's can be much higher than this, but this is the normal ballpark.)

As always I am speaking in very broad generalities. The specifics of a particular design can increase or decrease the example figures shown.

[Charles Burgess]

There are plenty of Riva type designs out there...some by Glen-L, available as partial kits or frame kits.....then could be veneered.....
The engine could also be a Chevy crate engine that you convert...either purchase the engine outright, or do it a small bit at a time to control the finances. I used a Ford 429 engine as the basis for my first boat, so far, only power boat....and despite my warnings, the fellow that bought it from me just had to see how fast it would go, ran out of room on the lake, and chopped the throttle a bit too suddenly, and the stern wave came aboard and sunk him....in about 6 feet of water.....

Sounds like when I was at the sub school at Groton CT in 1978 when the US was training the Iranians how to run the diesel submarines we were selling the Shah. As each crew finished sub school, with a half dozen USN NCO's they'd sail the boat back to Iran while going through all the normal drills. On the last boat, once they made it to Iran and the US crew shipped back home: the first time the Iranian crew took the sub out by themselves and on their first submersion the boat went down with all hands lost. It seems they forgot to close the main hatch.

[JimConlin]

...DIY = $2.08 per pound of displacement. (If you go with the home builder friendly strip/epoxy construction method - and doesn't include the cost of tools.)...
Funny, Of all of the materials one might use, most of 'em are at higher per-pound costs than $2.08. Cedar. epoxy and glass are roughly $4, mahogany a bit more, bronze is more.
I know that lead is less. How does this average out?

[chicagoross]

because boats weigh less than their displacements. If they weighed more, they'd sink.:)