Suggestions Wanted: Supporting a 72foot Wooden Boat on Land

[Vincent Bono]

Hello All,

I am refurbishing a 72foot wooden hull I bought surplus from the Navy. After its long trek from Seattle to Boston its going to live on land for a year or so while some major work is done.

Anyway, I have many references and books purchased but am still wondering the best way to support her on land.

She weighs in at 25 tons and pix can be seen at:

www.vinny.org/images/boat (http://www.vinny.org/images/boat)

We are leaning towards normal shoring using pressure treated 2 x 6 beams but a few folks have suggested using 8-10 large straps and letting her "float".

Suggestions appreciated!

Sincerely,
Vin

[Thad]

Plenty of solid blocks under the keel to keep it straight. She should have a very solid floor structure and I would block the hull in a few places along each side so your blocking supports the hull through the floor structure. Then bracing to the stem and to a couple of places along the sheer should hold her against any saging tendency. Beware of supporting the hull in (relatively) weak areas. The transom and bulkheads are strong locations just as are the floors and keel.

[Paul Scheuer]

Can't help with the blocking. Interesting boat, looks fast, what was her mission in the Navy ?

[ishmael]

but a few folks have suggested using 8-10 large straps and letting her "float".
What does that mean?

I have not experience with a large hull ashore, so forgive my ignorance.

[Vincent Bono]

Paul: TR-37 was used to retrieve spent test torpedoes from the bottom of Puget Sound after test firing. The navy had a pair of 880 HP each Detroit Diesels (I am going to use 2 x 12v71 400HPs so as not to bankrupt myself).

Ishmael: The "strap" suggestion was to sink four or five utility pole type piling on either side of her and suspend her by the same sling that the crane would use to move her, then stabilize her with shoring posts.

[Gary E]

Vin,

That is a very nice ship, I wish you many happy days with it.

As for how to support while out of the water, I have only ever seen a boat of that size hauled via a railway, and then supported on blocks and cribbing. If you use that strap idea, will it possible to get to all the area under the hull if the strap can not be mooved as cribbing can?

BTW, how did you move the boat from Seattle to Boston?

I can already hear the those Detroits a hummin smile.gif

G

[Vincent Bono]

Gary,

What is "Cribbing?". Is that same as "shoring" posts?

We got it out of the water with a transom (big one) and put it on a truck (had to remove the pilot house in the picture for height).

When it gets here I'm going to lift it with a crane fro mthe turck and put it on ... well, thats why I'm figuring this out.

The straps idea I think will nto work as it will be hard to move them around the hull to work on it.

-vb

[Gary E]

Vin,

I think that cribbing and shoring is the same thing, blocks of wood some longer than others, and stacked sorta like lincoln logs to fill space from the ground up to the hull. I agree with you on the straps, never having seen that, I really prefer the solid wood stacked up which can be moved if required, which it will be come bottom painting time.

Interesting that you had it trucked cross country, that must be a big expense.

G

[redsail]

Thad said it just right.
Wow. what a great looking boat. We all would love to see your drawings of what you will turn her into. Can you post the plans?

[Paul Scheuer]

Sounds like quite an adventure. Got plans for torpedo retrieving ?

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid81/p44d3224a524725cc750c718f7c6443cb/faf7dcb9.jpg

[Gary E]

Dave,

For all intents here, cribbing and shoring are the same, both meant ro support something above it, in this case a boat.

Your photo shows that cast iron you say is 20 ft long and weight is 10 tons, I am not doubting you on those facts, but if they are true and I assume that the width and height of that cast iron is the same then it is a little over 17 inches wide and 17 inches tall, a beam of that crossection would provide a substantial base to support all of the weight placed above it without much bending.

Why dig a trench?.. this is the east coast and snow and rain will fill that trench soaking what ever you put in there and then freeze, then what?

G

[RGM]

I always hate to see nice boats leave the PNW for other parts of the country. Oh well, that's the way it goes. First off, the vessel has a "Docking Plan" available somewhere. The Docking Plan is an engineered drawing that details block placement, etc. It may be on the boat someplace. Did you get a set of drawings with the boat. If so, great,it should be with the drawings. Get a set of drawings if you don't have them. Hopefully, the Docking Plan came with the boat. If not, the folks at Keyport or Inian Island, WA.(where did it work out of?) probably have it or know how to get it. If you can find out who hauled it out last they may very well have a copy of the Docking Plan. The "Docking Plan" will direct you on block placement, shoring and other haul out details. Is the boat presently in the water? If so great. The next step is VERY important. With the boat in the water and hopefully off of the trailer for about two to three weeks, hire a diver to accomplish a "hull profile". A hull profile goes like this; The diver stretches a tight wire from the forefoot to the fartest point aft on the keel. This wire has previously been measured off and marked in one or two foot increments. The diver measures and records the distances, if any, between the vessel's keel and the tight wire at the predetermined points. This is how you accurately measure a vessel's keel profile (hog). Once the data is taken and recorded (underwater clip board and pen) the keel blocking onshore is built and shimmed to duplicate the hog or any other discontinuities along the length of the keel. The vessel is then placed on the blocking by predetermining some index points (X marks the spot on the forefoot that lands in the middle of the first keel block and the rest of the blocking should hopefully line up with the keel profile). If a boat is hogged, build to the hog unless you are going to essentially build a new hull beneath the piplot house. This sounds like alot of trouble, but it's worth it. More people should do this for their boats. Don't block it flat unless you know it's flat. Please take my advice, I know what I'm talking about, I've been responsible for drydocking alot of wooden boats, including a number for the US Navy. We might even have a Docking Plan for your boat at our yard. I'll take a look on Monday. Feel free the send me a Private Message thru the Forum if you wish. Good luck, don't get in a hurry, I'll be in touch.

[ 09-28-2003, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: RGM ]

[Paul Scheuer]

How was she blocked for her truck ride ?

[Todd Dunn]

Around here they would block here with 8x8s built up as a crib. Stack them every 10 feet or so under the keel. Then use 10 or so jack stands to support the hull just under the turn of the bilge (say 5 on each side). You can shim the cribbed timbers to gradually get rid of any hogging that might be present.

[Vincent Bono]

Thank you everyone for all the advice so far! My wife (Judy) and I are overwhelmed by the responses. We promise to keep the forum posted every step of the way.

So far, we are planning something like this:

Jack Plan for TR37 (http://www.judyandvin.com/boat/jackplan01.jpg)

To thos who asked the start of some final plans can be seen at:

Floorplan for TR37 (http://www.judyandvin.com/boat.html)

(Ignore the "Donate" Buttons! We used this page as sort of a registry for our wedding.)

-vb

[Ken Liden]

Nice boat. If you are as naive about big wood boats as you profess, YOU AIN'T READY for that one. I speak with the voice of experience because I too have a large wood ex. military boat that I have been remodeling and rebuilding for many years. We lived aboard for 18 years.

My advice. Don't spend another penny until you have blueprints in hand. When you have those then you approach somebody like RGM to see if some of your ideas can be incorporated into a boat some where somehow. Then review your finances. I'll bet that this thing will end up costing at least $250,000. More if you have to hire out labor. I have spent that already and all but $7000 is material. I have at least $100,000 to go.

For some real insight feel free to e-mail me.

[MarkC]

For your information

Naval Architects Woodin & Marean have done modifications for the design of boat you have purchased (or one very similar). The boat was Yorel (woodenboat magazine 95). Boat builder Sonny Hodgdon built it (his address?).

Navy torpedo retrievers designed by Eldredge McInnis were 'used at target ranges along the coast where they practiced firing torpedoes'. He turned this design into yachts - quote from Woodenboat mag 166 page 62 'It wasn't a hard boat to dress up to make look like a yacht'. See 'Lion's Welp II' and 'Cassair' - in same article about boat builder Jim Stevens.

Have a look at both Lions Welp and Cassair = WOW.

I personally have seen an Australian Navy plywood minesweeper, in much worse shape than your boat, turned into a cracker yacht by professional boatbuilders and a naval architect. they raised the sheer at the bow - really nice. They charter this boat now - or they sold it. They would have made money.

Speak to the naval architects!!

[Ian McColgin]

Huge job. You've more courage than I.

I don't know that I'd use jack stands under there. Solid blocks seem safer. Also much easier for getting the line of cross memebers dead straight or whatever curve the boat's keel is supposed to have. If you nned to yank one support at a time for work, you can take a little strain with a powerful jack and then knock the block loose.

I am hoping that the concrete was poured for this use and has lots of ReBar in it. If not, and maybe even if so, you might want to lay a trail of long thick timbers right down the middle to accept some weight from the cross timbers.

G'luck

[LoonyToo]

You might want to leave those buttons on--this looks like a pretty serious project!!

I looked over your drawings and noticed that you were giving up your side decks over two thirds of the length. I realize that as a live-aboard, you want to maximize your interior space but aren't you risking having this conversion look like a cargo ship?

Also, the long hallway with the 90 degree turn seems kind of maze-like; perhaps you can re-arrange things so a shortened hallway yields enough space to retain the side decks.

How about moving the two cabins forward, perhaps separated by the hallway. The living area would then go aft where it could have windows on three sides and flow out onto the rear deck. Better yet--try to get those cabins down to the lower level.

Access to the upper deck requires you to exit on one side, walk forward and across in front of the pilot house and then up--that seems like an excessive hassle if you want the space to be useful. Without the side decks, you're probably going to be up there a lot.

HH

Re:
(Ignore the "Donate" Buttons! We used this page as sort of a registry for our wedding.)

-vb[/QB][/QUOTE]

[Vincent Bono]

We had thought the jackstands would allow us more flexibility in move the keel blocks, but I think we are going to forgo them based on advice heard here from several people.

Also looking at changing the layout a bit to recover some side deck space, but maybe not.

And to all, yes its a whopper of a project but so is building a house and this is better.

More pictures will be online soon whe nshe arrives.

-vb

[Norske3]

....if this is a Walter McInnis design you may get more info from his son...he is retired but still sells plans he and his Father did...you can find him in the telephone book...his son still lives in Hingham.( just around the corner..as you know.. from where you will keep the boat ..HA!..I bet he will want to come and see the boat since you will be close by)..interesting to learn Yorel is the same hull..I saw Yorel in person in Maine a few years ago...it is AWESOME....may you enjoy your project....what a home it will make!. smile.gif ....by the way, on the "floor plan of you water house", I don't see a jacuzzi.. :confused: ...may I suggest a name, "Seabiscuit"..( he was discover/found near you at Suffolk Downs Race Track) ..after the famous race horse who came "back to life" and won inspite of his physical problems.. smile.gif

[ 10-02-2003, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Norske3 ]

[Dick W]

Listen to the man with the plan -- the Docking Plan - as a former Dockmaster and a current Nav Arch -- The Navy provides a comprehensive set of plans through their extensive filing system.

And if you can't get it through RGM and Naval Undersea Warfare Center at Keyport -- then talk to their Engineering staff --
The Boston office of Puget Sound Naval Shipyard has cognizance over small craft and this is a small craft for them. As a last resort you can go to the building yard -- found on the data plate -- and get it through their records.
good luck --
On another note I would think that you might consider putting some side decks on your boat and not put the deckhouse all the way to the side of the boat, for those anxious moments you need to go from bow to stern in a hurry. It also provides walk around room for the athletically inclined.

[ 10-04-2003, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: Dick W ]