Walnut for axe handle?

[Bob (oh, THAT Bob)]

I have been looking for a piece of hickory to make a slightly longer handle for a small 400g axe I have, I want to be able to use two hands in a pinch. Hickory is not commonly available at the local lumber yards, and I haven't seen another handle that can be readily modified; either too much curvature (I want it straight), or the head for the socket is too thin in one direction or the other. A really large handle to whittle down is more expensive than the whole axe.

So I'm browsing a surplus hardware store and run across some walnut scraps, and one is the perfect size, 1" thick by 2-1/4" by 57", pretty straight grain and flat sawn, straight overall, all dark, no sapwood. More than enough for two handles the length I want (I may make one for a gift). And it was $5. So will walnut make a good axe handle in terms of strength, resilience, and holding the head over time? Do I need to seal it, and if so, what would you recommend? I figure it would be at least adequate, but how does it compare to hickory?

I know walnut seems a bit overkill, but it is a small scrap, and hey, a quality tool is not a bad use for a piece of walnut. (If the material is functionally good.)

Thanks.

[Thorne]

Too brittle. Unfortunately I suspect that it would be dangerous to use wood that brittle for an axe -- you really don't want the head flying off at speed!

Let's see what the more experienced folks say, and perhaps your particular piece of walnut might work fine, just not sure I'd want to take the chance...

[reddog]

Bob,I have to agree with Thorne on the use of walnut.My experience leads me to think it would be on the brittle side for a axe handle.Up here ash is favoured for handles.It is relatively light,strong and most importantly a bit flexible.I have seen maple used but it too is not the ideal choice.

Earl

[Bob (oh, THAT Bob)]

Asked and answered, that's why I asked folks, thanks. I figured the stuff was reasonably strong because they used walnut for military gun stocks during both world wars, and not because it was pretty. But the recoil loads are more distributed then the concentrated moment at an axe head. Maybe also for gun stocks because of a combination of strength versus weight, and/or stability?

If ash would be suitable, I may be able to find an old baseball bat with a chip or crack that could be recycled for use as an axe handle.

Still glad I picked up that piece of walnut for a fiver. Will make nice knife handles. Wish I could have found a thicker piece for a different project but they were all 1".

[oznabrag]

Asked and answered, that's why I asked folks, thanks. I figured the stuff was reasonably strong because they used walnut for military gun stocks during both world wars, and not because it was pretty. But the recoil loads are more distributed then the concentrated moment at an axe head. Maybe also for gun stocks because of a combination of strength versus weight, and/or stability?

If ash would be suitable, I may be able to find an old baseball bat with a chip or crack that could be recycled for use as an axe handle.

Still glad I picked up that piece of walnut for a fiver. Will make nice knife handles. Wish I could have found a thicker piece for a different project but they were all 1".

I think you can do a lot better than $5.62 per board foot for scrap walnut.

I'm jus' sayin'.:D

John T

[Bob Cleek]

You would want a much less brittle wood for an axe handle, for sure. An axe handle is a lot thinner and longer, relative to its diameter, than a gunstock. Walnut finishes nice, so it's favored for gunstocks, but to tell the truth, those "army guys" who swund their rifles from the barrel end in hand-to-hand combat ended up with a lot of broken stocks... although at that point, what you did to your stock was probably academic.

You want something like ash or hickory. If you can't find any in a local SPECIALTY HARDWOOD lumber yard (you won't find any in a construction grade lumber yard, as you've found out), you might consider going to a second hand store or recycling center (a lot of dumps have these now) and picking up a used wooden baseball bat for peanuts. These are almost always ash or hickory, IIRC, and might be about the right size to work down into the sort of handle you want.

[Bob (oh, THAT Bob)]

I think you can do a lot better than $5.62 per board foot for scrap walnut.

I'm jus' sayin'.:D

John T

Well scrap is relative. These were all clean, straight, and milled smooth pieces, just extra from some trim job I guess. I have no idea what walnut goes for these days, but for a $1000 of wood, paying 100% too much matters a lot. For $5, which was all I needed (if it would work, which in won't), even on a bad percentage basis, how much could I get burned, another $5? And it was just the right size, no waste. If it was the wrong wood for my intentions (which it is), I know I can use it for something. Last time I brought my dad a piece of truly scrap walnut from a pallet, of all things, he went crazy with it and made at least a dozen knife handles from it for friends. (He used to make his own knives.) So if I don't use it, he will. So what should nice clean milled walnut go for per board foot? I found prices online varying greatly.

I sure do appreciate the input, though guys. I know things are not as obvious as they seem, so that's why I ask. I know a lot more about metal than about wood.

There's still gotta be a reason the military used walnut for stocks even during WWII on ugly guns made during the war. Maybe back then, walnut was plentiful enough that it was an economical choice in the weight range that would work. I have also seen dark-stained birch stocks made during the war for M1s. Now the Germans, they used laminated stocks, I think birch or beech, on later '98 Mausers made during high volume production. That makes complete sense to me. Maybe just process of elimination; Pine, spruce and poplar, too weak or soft. Maple, too heavy. Mahogany might be good, strong and stable, but imported, not great during a war. Birch, a known substitute, was used. Oak, a bit heavy and also very coarse grain, might splinter too easy. There are a lot of other species, but my point is, maybe it is the best choice for the application, and perhaps other substitute woods might have been needed for other applications where walnut may have not been suitable. Don't mean to thread drift, just an interesting thought. I always pictured walnut as an extravagant wood, not a wartime commodity.

[getthemack]

Most of the denser maples would work well. You likely have a limb or two in your yard that would work

[Mrleft8]

Ash.

[oznabrag]

Bob, I meant no offense, and of course $5 is not too much to pay for a piece of walnut. Further, you say that it is clean-milled at 1", so we can assume that it started at 5/4. This means you paid about $4.50/ bd.ft.

Buying scrap is always a crapshoot. The piece of lumber your stick got separated from may have been fit only for the firewood bin!

Anyway, If you can't get hickory (or pecan) I would go with Ash. Remember that you don't want the closest grained piece of hickory/pecan, because it will break in heavy use. Try to select a piece that has straight grain (of course), but has the annular rings spaced out as much as you would find in a piece of, say, yellow pine.

I hope you find your handle-stock soon. Re-handling an edge-tool is one of the quiet, selfish pleasures of woodwork.

Cheers,

John T

[ishmael]

I haven't read closely the entire thread, but what some have said. Don't use walnut for an axe handle unless you've got no other choice. It'd probably work OK, but will not be as resilient as ash, or hickory, or oak. Of those three, I'd say ash.

[Mrleft8]

Or Hackberry...... Or Hop Hornbeam....Elm would make an excellent axe handle.

[Plover]

Elm is an excellent choice!

[Jay Greer]

When a guy becomes one with his hand tools, he finds that each axe and adze, to name a few, have a certain feel or resonance if the handels are made of the correct material. Walnut is not a good material to use for guitar making or axe handles.
Jay

[boylesboats]

Whoa... it too brittle... find yerself a nice piece of Hickory..

Like Thorne have stated, save yer noggin'....

[Eric D]

Go down to the local feed mill or old hardware store in town. Fleet Farm is a place locally around here. Any place that has/sells axes will have replacement handles. Only about 4-5 bucks, and you get the proper wood. If you were close, I would give you some nice air dried ash for your project, I have a few thousand feet cut right now.

[boylesboats]

Or Hackberry...... Or Hop Hornbeam....Elm would make an excellent axe handle.

Elm? :eek: it rot too easy...

[mobjack68]

Ash would be my first choice. Hickory, beech, birch, hornbeam, hard maple will all be "stringy" enough and tough enough to withstand the shock. I made a handle for a camp axe from a scrap of pecan...that was some 20 years and maybe 30 camping trips ago. If you have some wood you just have to use for a handle, think about laminating thin strips together....lotsa strength in that, the kind of wood loses importance, it's the lamination that makes it shock resistant. imho...

[Three Cedars]

Walnut might do fine for a carving axe , depends on how you use it . Heck even birch is used when nothing else is around.

I made a few handles out of black locust that worked pretty good. If saskatoon is big enough in your area it makes a good handle.

[ssor]

Elm? :eek: it rot too easy...

Don't leave it out in the weather.

[Canoeyawl]

Yew will make a good tool handle.

*My experience with Elm is that it has good rot resistance.

Some anecdotal evidence -There is an Elm stump in my fathers driveway that has been a stump for fifty years. It is more of a "bump" now, but it is still there.
The elms that died from the disease will stand for a long time, even the twigs stay attached. And there are Elm logs (and Chestnut) down at the tide line that ships were built on in the 19th century - still there.

[Three Cedars]

Yes yew is good for small tool handles but not an axe handle for splitting wood .... too brittle - only took me two handles to figure that out

[stevedwyer]

One reason a good piece of Hickory is prized for an axe, adz or hacket handle is for it's spring.
It doesn't jar you up to your elbows like oak, ash or elm.
While walnut might split in half more easily, the fate of most handles is just that.
More often, I've seen the head fly off because someone didn't seat the wedges that loosen over time.

If you want to go crazy and add some heft, try a piece of Cocobolo.

[J P]

Walnut is not a good material to use for guitar making or axe handles.
Jay

Walnut is getting to be more and more popular for guitars these days.
Usually used for backs and sides.

[boylesboats]

Elm? :eek: it rot too easy...


Don't leave it out in the weather.

Not only left out in the weather, I soak head end of tools in bucket of water at time, to draw the wood tighter..

[Bob (oh, THAT Bob)]

All very interesting responses. I knew I could count on you folks.

Ozna, I wasn't sure if you were serious because as I said, I have not a clue these days how much walnut runs, but like I said, how much could I be risking?:D It is a nice clean piece, it'll be good for something.

I don't want more heft, Steve, this is a light axe head (less than a pound) for ease of travel. Not like most everything else I make where I tend to over-design. The original handle is properly sized for normal use, but if it's the only axe I have, I'd like room to use two hands in a pinch. I've also considered making a Valaska, but I want it a bit more compact, maybe half that length. (That head is very similar to the one I have):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Klimek3.jpg

I didn't realize pecan was a relative of hickory until I looked it up right before I posted. Wider spacing of the rings is better? Really? I always thought the tighter the better. And I assume that flat sawn (grain running in the direction of the axe head) would be stronger, good guitar necks are quarter sawn for that reason.

Speaking of guitars, most of the good guitar woods I have seen tend to be hard and brittle, at least wood for the sides and back (rosewood, padouk, walnut, etc.) Tough to bend but I think the hardness is essential for good resonance. Spruce and cedar for the tops, cedar tends to have brighter tone, as a rule. Mahogany is the standard for necks because it is straight and strong for its weight. Of course the fingerboard is rosewood or ebony....That's what I'll use for the axe handle! Ebony! :p

[oznabrag]

Yep, faster growth (bigger rings) for the axe-handles of the world.

It will withstand greater distortion without rupture, or, so I am informed.

I really do hope you will post pics when you are done!

John T

[boylesboats]

Yep, faster growth (bigger rings) for the axe-handles of the world.

It will withstand greater distortion without rupture, or, so I am informed.

I really do hope you will post pics when you are done!

John T

Another trick is.. Soak spare handles in coal oil (kerosene) for a few months.. it make handle more flexible..

[Bob (oh, THAT Bob)]

Oh, I forgot. Gransfors Bruks (very fine, expensive, handmade axes from Sweden) makes a "Hunters Axe" which has the back of the head slightly thinned, rounded and polished (called a Flay Poll), to be used for skinning hides. Evidently you place that between the hide and meat and push (with the chopping blade sheathed) and it separates the two. I have not tried it. I actually have not hunted for many years, since I was young and out with dad. But as this axe is intended for field and bail-out-bag, I also intend to incorporate that feature. The axe I am starting with is a Stubai Kuchen Biel, or Kitchen Axe (for splitting stove wood?), with a 400g head. It is forged in Austria in da old country, and sells locally for $20, which I think is a great deal when Chinese-made hatchets are selling for over $10. A comparable Gransfors Bruks hatchet is close to $150, beautiful as they are, hand forged, but that's a bit much for me. Their reproduction historical axes run about $450. That'll be the next project, I just picked up a German-made 2-1/4 pound fire axe with an unusually broad face, more down toward the handle than upward, for $20 new, if I can find the means (my tool resources are very limited these days), I would like to scallop out the underside and trim the socket area to two side lugs to create a light bearded broad axe. Not a functional necessity these days, mind you, it'll just be nice to look at. :D I think having a nice set of axes from small to large would be cool. Like this one, from Gransfors. Ain't it pretty? $451.99. I think my first car cost less than that axe. I know my first gun cost less than that axe, and it was a Colt:

http://www.wealddown.co.uk/Shop/..%5Cimages%20shop%5C4903LE%20axe.jpg

[Mrleft8]

Yew will make a good tool handle.

Yes I will.... But I'll use Ash or Elm. :D ;)
Elm will not rot any faster than Hickory, which is notoriously rot prone.