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View Full Version : 4 day trip report, how not to build a boat



peterAustralia
05-05-2009, 09:18 PM
hi all

I thought I would sneak this in here, I do not think my boat is refined enough for all the nice boats that appear in the main section of this forum, think it might be OK for the bilge though.

I went on a 4 day trip. Had some fun, learnt lots of things, realised that for heavy weather that a boat needs to be built well.

I now really really really hate stitch and glue, as opposed to previously when I just hated it. I also now see why most ocean boats do not have a flat bottom (something called pounding apparently)

some notes and photos here

http://www.geocities.com/peterevans_33/four_day_trip.html

pls do not judge me too harshly, it is all trial and error, and next boat will be better.

regards
N Peter Evans

hansp77
05-05-2009, 10:01 PM
Clicked on the link, 'service temporarily unavailable'
(harsh judgment temporarily delayed;))

Where was your 4 day trip?

Hwyl
05-05-2009, 10:04 PM
I thought geocitiies was history.

peterAustralia
05-05-2009, 10:30 PM
hi

sometimes it can be overloaded, such as when lots of people decide to visit a site at the same time.

There is an hourly limit, so my guess is that when 18 people viewed the page, with each page having a few photos (they may possibly have gone to other pages too) it exceeded the 4.2mb hourly limit. So may work now, when did not work before.

Geocities is going away yes. I found that out last week. The good thing is that they have given notice, some time to relocate to another site. Contrast this to AOL hometown which was stopped with zero warning and stuffed everybody up.

I have all my files backed up so can make a new site easily. but AOL was awful. Talk about a great way of destroying your customer loyalty.

hansp77
05-05-2009, 10:47 PM
Yeah it started working-
quite a good read. Thanks.


"spoke to a fellow who said that as I was going out for four days it was obviously not my first trip, I replied with a long ummmmmhhh"
:DLOL

Good on you for taking such a bold first trip. Indeed, Port Phillip Bay can be a most cantankerous and uncomfortable host. I get uncomfortable enough in the 26 ft (uncles) and 30 ft (mine) sailboats we use on the bay when the conditions turn, as they always seem to do. Just about every time I seem to go out, we end up with too much wind and battling uncomfortable chop- quite another thing when doing it in a boat your size and on your own:o

cheers,
Hans.

seanz
05-06-2009, 01:26 AM
Build a better boat.

Get a better website.

Legend.
:D

I don't know of anyone that's done this sort of thing (camp/cruising Port Phillip Bay) and it's to be encouraged as it's a great use of the Bay.

Here's a good question for the Designs/Plans section.....what would be the best boat for a Port Phillip Bay camp/cruiser?
And the answer might not be 'Couta boat'.......

Tylerdurden
05-06-2009, 03:49 AM
Learning curve applies so do not fault yourself. I have no great love for stitch and glue but it does serve a purpose in being fast and cheap.
I am almost finished with D-5 here in the yard as my old dingy bit the dust. I used all the bad things in its build including exterior ply but I only need it for a season or two until I have time and facility to build a proper dingy. You seem to have learned all the pitfalls in your narrative so do not be afraid to incorporate it in your next build.
It looks good, got you on the water so no need to say more.
That's the reason most of us are here is to get on the water so damn the purists and get out there. Don't curse yourself just repair the boat and enjoy it and start planning your next build.

Tom Hunter
05-06-2009, 08:09 AM
Beg to differ with your opening premise, this does belong in the boat sections up above.

There are a lot of very fine craftsmen on this forum, but there are also wood butchers like me.

Tylerdurden
05-06-2009, 08:12 AM
Beg to differ with your opening premise, this does belong in the boat sections up above.

There are a lot of very fine craftsmen on this forum, but there are also wood butchers like me.

I notice if you post stuff like that be prepared to deal with the purists.
The plywood thread always makes me laugh. My motto is have fun and get on the water, I don't care if you sail an old cast iron clawfoot tub.:)

TerryLL
05-06-2009, 08:35 AM
I thought I would sneak this in here, I do not think my boat is refined enough for all the nice boats that appear in the main section of this forum, think it might be OK for the bilge though.

Oh so wrong. I think a lot of folks above decks would very much enjoy your post. The boat is a bit rough, so what? It's what you had, and you turned it into a great adventure.

boatbear
05-06-2009, 09:08 AM
G'day Peter
A fine adventure and a well written report. Thanks for posting. Great to be alive, innit?

Taylor Tarvin
05-06-2009, 09:13 AM
I still can't get to your web site but if you are posting about your trip it didn't go all that badly.:D

CharlieCobra
05-06-2009, 09:43 AM
Hey, it floated and got you there AND back, what else is it supposed to do???

peterAustralia
05-06-2009, 10:13 AM
hi

my free website is overloaded, please give me a couple of days to organise a paid website.. in the mean time

a couple of photos can be found here (an earlier thread)

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94572

mine is the ugly boat



and text from the report is here
It is long... my apologies
Is 1.10am here... off to sleep soon







Please find above some photos of my four day trip on Port Phillip Bay near Melbourne, Victoria, Australia in mid April 2009. The trip started from Footscray Melbourne at 5.30pm on Monday. I went upriver 20 mintues and tied up next to a pontoon, in order to gain experience in sleeping with the boat. The next day I motored to Williamstown and then to Port Arlington. On the Wednesday I had a very relaxing day broad reaching in sunny skies to the Werribee river, where I spent the night. The next day Thursday was a very difficult trip going upwind and into a very steep vicious and fast moving chop with a 2 to 3 ft swell with some larger waves. I got back to Footscray at 5.45pm tired and weary but happy to be home.

The photos show the boat at lovely Port Arlington. I found this small town amazingly nice, very laid back, freindly and I pulled my boat onto the beach about 80 yards west of the wharf. I had to wait till midday for the wind to pickup before sailing to the Werribee river later that day.

You can gain an idea from the photos of the amount of junk that is inside the boat. More storage is a requirement, as is better orgainisation and vetting of things to take. Also note the water containers that go into the bow in order to maintain trim, a good 60kg of ballast

Next find some photos of the lazy Wednesday afternoon sailing to the Werribee river. Yes I need some more sail area so that I can go faster, note the ideal conditions

Lastly some photos of the werribee river where I spent the Wednesday night, it looks like a nice place to explore. Note some of the other boats moored in the river, I think these ones are called Couta boats, from memory there were about four of them, three with transom sterns, and one double ended



Structural Failure

The boat suffered a structural failure with a 50cm crack between the hull bottom and side. This was my fault. The heavy loads caused by the pounding the boat endured were greater than the boat could handle. The reason for this is as follows. The gusset at front left of the hull was secured with only 1 screw, whereas other gussets were secured with four screws. The glue area of the gusset was insuffucient

When the boat was made fiberglass went over the bottom and onto the sides. Unforturnately I did not create a radius on the chine before hand. Thus when I added the fiberglass I got a rough uneven lay with wrinkles. Then in an act of silliness I smoothed the chine to give a nice radius, in the process grinding back the fiberglass, I did not subsequently apply fiberglass over the modified joint. Thus there was no continuous fiberglass between the sides and bottom. Fiberglass inside and outside the joint would have been prudent.

I have a dislke of stitch and glue. I know it can work well, I have a personal preference for stringer frame. If I had a one inch square chine log in the joint and secured with screws every 5 inches I feel it would have been much stronger. The crack can be and will be repaired. The gusset will be replaced and secured with several screws. I will grind back the paint and fiberglass the joint. The trouble is that the number of changes required may be adding good effort after bad. Perhaps it is best to deem that my rowboat is suited to it's origianl purpose (rowing) and is not optimised for as a rough weather multihull


Notes on the Thursday Trip getting back home

This day started early with me waking up with the morning sun. I spent a fairly good night sleeping in the boat, tied up to an old post. The banks were muddy and steep and did not invite pulling up there. It took a while to get organised getting setup to sleep the night without being able to exit the boat. In the morning I went to the wharf and spent a good forty minutes organising my gear for the trip home.

The main thing to realise about this day was that to get home I had to go NE and the wind was coming from the NE. Although fresh in the morning it was not extreme, later it became awful. I started by following the coast to Werribee South where I pulled onto the beach and refueled and stretched my legs, spoke to a fellow who said that as I was going out for four days it was obviously not my first trip, I replied with a long ummmmmhhh

Next things started to get a bit tricky. I passed with slight headland at Werribee South. It was here that I went over a marked shoal and lost my rudder. This was entirely my fault as the shoal was marked on my chart but I was not reading it with care. The loss of my rudder meant that I had to steer with the motor and not with the rudder and fixed motor as I prefer. This was not the distaster it may irst appear as I could still steer with sails and using my paddle as a steering oar. Thus I still had a contingency if the motor failed.

I was angry with myself for not checking hte synoptic chart to determine from which direction the wind would be coming from on that day. If I had looked at the chart, and made an estimate of where the pressure systems would be in 3 days or so, I ought have realised that winds would be from the Nort East on the day and not from the South West as I had assumed. In Melbourne, the strong winds usually come from the SW.

The next landmark of siginifcance was Point Cook. On the west side I was protected by the headland from the wind and the waves, it was a bit breezy, but not too bad. After passing Point Cook I new I would be exposed to the full force of the wind and waves. I refueled again from the Jerry Can. I was always worried about water from the funnel getting into the fuel and stopping hte motor. I have to say the Yamaha was faultless. Next I went for a walk to the homestead to check it out and have a look at the bay further on. I was able to spy a buoy a mile or so out, that marked a shoal I had to stay clear of

I decided to go in a straight line from Point Cook to Williamstown, in order to minimise the time spent in these conditions. It was a bit tough. I realised that I was getting tired physically so I made a point of wearning thermals, a beany, a polarfleece, an oilskin, a jumper and a lifejacket. I was also carful to keep up my fluids and energy levels, by drinking water and eating more than normal as a contingency.

After passing Point Cook I wanted to keep well clear of the shoal, this meant going out 2km from the beach. It also meant I was exposed to waves that had many kilometers to gain height. In these conditions the boat was pounding very heavily, going boom, boom, boom every few seconds. The spray was bad coming back at me, even though the boat is 18ft long. I eventually passed the marker but the waves were slowing my speed, and I was not keen to refuel in the middle of those conditions.

At this stage I noticed the boat seemed to be getting a lot of water. At this point I just assumed it was heavy spray, though I learned later I had a structural failure. I was bailing regularly, and after a minute or so, the water would be under control and I would forget about it for a while. The outrigger was performing well, cutting through the waves, whilst the dory hull was going over waves and pounding. The shape of the hull was badly suited to those conditions. The waves were very steep, closely spaced, moving quickly. The bow would hit a wave, go up a couple of feet and then slam down. Because of the combination of my speed into the waves, and the closlely spaced fast moving waves, I was hitting a wave evey two seconds or so. It should be pointed out that I did not have many options. I have no car to pick up the boat from a different location, and I had a flight booked for early the next day

Things started to get more difficult. I told myself that if I could keep going I would get into the lee of Williamstown, where the wind and waves would be less and where I could have a rest. I kept of going through, thinking that it was more psychilogical than physical, and thus I had to use logic and not emotions. If I could go one km, I could make 10. About 1km after passing the shoal I got hit by a big wave. It was steep sided, pyramidal shape and about 4ft high. I did not see it coming and it hit me partially side-on. Just before it hit I realised that this was going to be bad. It was way over the gunnel and moving fast. It decided to pour it's contents into the boat just like that. In 2 seconds I had a good 6 or 8 inches of water in the boat from just one wave. At this moment the motor decided to quit. Actualy it was me twisting the throttle off in a moment of not concentrating.

I decided to tackle the situation by handing one issue at a time. I realised that if I was hit by another 2 waves like the one that just hit me that the boat would be completely swamped and I was in a bit of bother. I restarted the motor, it started first pull, and started bailing. Fortunatly all of my gear was tied on with small lines and I did have buoyancy compartments fore and aft. The bailing went well and within a couple of minutes I had the water under control.

peterAustralia
05-06-2009, 10:14 AM
part 2



I kept on going, telling myself this was my best course of action, just put up with a degree of discomfort and later on, all will be well. I could feel myself becoming fatigued. I knew there was a small inlet between Seaholme and williamstown, so I headed slighly to the left in order to gain protection from that shore. I was out in these conditions for a good hour and a half, possibly more. Some of the waves hit the front crossbeam heavily causing spray and slowing the boat. All the while the boat was pounding very heavily and I was contrasting it very unfavourably to the small 12ft windrush catamaran that I used to have that just loved the waves.

I was worried about running ouf of fuel and having to use the jerry can in the middle of these conditions, and getting water in the fuel tank, and having a dud motor. I think I refueled twice on this leg, my memroy is hazy though I do not know why. I have recollections of refuelling in the middle of the leg and not using a funnel as I was worried about water. The funny thing was that when the boat stopped, no water was coming into the boat and things did not seem as bad. Eventually I got close to the lee shore and was able to turn to the right and follow the coast near Williamstown beach. Once I got close to the lee I knew I would be fine, I refueled again and followed the coast around into the Yarra river and thence home.



Realistically was I in danger? Answer, not greatly. I say this because if the motor had stopped or the boat was swamped I would have slowed down and travelled with the waves as opposed to going against them. Thus the amount of water coming into the boat would have been greatly reduced. I was only two or three kilometers from shore, and I can swim that far if need be. The water was fairly warm. I had flares, a mobile phone and a GPS. I would like to get a handhelf vhf radio. It the motor has stopped I could have gone with the waves and current and used the steering oar and my sail rig to make for Point Cook. It I was swamped, well I would hope that I could bail out though if I was lower water may get in more easily. I have bow and stern buoyancy compartments, though these are not sealed with grease as recommended and would keep water out for a limited period, but not indefinatly. The outrigger would float, as would the crossbeams, so there is the option of the boat with the outrigger fine, but with the dory very low and wallowing in the waves.



Plusses and Minuses of my boat

* The dory hull pounded very badly in the condtions on the Thursday. It is true that many boats would experience problems in those condtions, but the dory preformed badly going at speed into a steep, closely spaced chop. A hullform with a stem much closer to the vertical and a V bottom forward would be preferable. The stern performed well, giving low drag at varying levels of trim and providing securing from following waves.
* More storage would be preferred. If teh bow and stern compartmetns were larger, that would assist with the storage issue and buoyancy reserve in case of being swamped
* The crossbeams which were overbuilt performed well
* The outrigger shape was very good. I am getting some water into the outrigger from the top of the supports. This was due to poor costruction and can be recified, the outrigger is made of 10 compartments so water in a single compartment is not a massive issue. A lighter outrigger would be easier to man-handle, extra weight could be added in terms of remomable water containers
* The flexible water bladders in the bow were essential for trim, however they are not rubust enough for rough condtions. A built in ballast tank near the bow would be preferable.
* My bushwalking experience came in useful. The use of thermal underwear, wearing a beanie, having a compass around my neck at all times, the ability to take a bearing and follow a bearning were all good things.
* The habit of storing all my clothes and bedding inside plastic garbage bags was extremely prudent
* Exposue is a real issue. Proper clothes and an oilskin for protection from the elements is essential. The ability to keep up energy levels via use of fluids and food can allow a situation to remain challenging without going into the extreme or high risk category.
* The cheap anchor without a chain was just about useless
* I had a GPS, but do not know at the moment how to enter a waypoint from via the map. Entering a dozen or 2 coordinates from some reference material would be a good idea
* The rig is easy to use. However it is about 30 percent smaller than the ideal and it's upwind performance is debatable. A better cut sail will no doubt point higher but not as high as a bermudan rig.
* The fixed rudder was a real pain, accessing a beach with the fixed rudder is a real hassle. A kickup rudder would have been far superior
* Having two good bailers (tied to boat) was a very good idea
* Buoyancy compartments were a good thing to have. If I had some foam inside them as well it would be better still. The small hatches meant that only the smallest of items could be stored inside the end compartments
* I was very happy with both the outboard bracket and the outboard well, the well needs to be 3 or 4cm higher.
* A realistation that things not built properly in the beginning will have consequences later
* I did not like to use the motor, but it got me out of a lot of trouble.
* A need to be realistic with the number of kilometers travelled each day. For example in the morning there may not be a breeze, and then it gets dark a little after 6pm
* A couple of good quality waterproof torches is essential
* Carrying a small homebuilt cheap paddle proved to be a very wise and smart move. It proved very useful and got me out of trouble. It also provides an emergency steering mechanism should the rudder fail
* It is wise to study the charts and treat them seriously
* A realistion that Port Phillip Bay can be very trying an nasty
* Learning from first hand experience is far preferable to learning from books.
* Being able to swim well cant hurt, a wetsuit would be nice to have too.
* The numbers on the boat came off. I should have epoxied over them, or failing that painted then on.
* The removable thwarts worked well, carrying a toolkit was prudent, things like spanners and screwdriver, shackles and spare line are always useful. It is very wise to keep a good knife on your person at all times.
* Laminating your charts is essential

rbgarr
05-06-2009, 10:22 AM
Isn't Port Philip Bay where John Bertrand learned to sail? Maybe someday you too will win the America's Cup!! :D

Sail on, sailor!

CK 17
05-06-2009, 11:05 AM
Quite a yarn there. Part palu from the pacific islands and part--well--I don't know what, but I admire your sense of adventure;)