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View Full Version : Freddie Mac CFO kills self



Nicholas Scheuer
04-22-2009, 01:52 PM
Maybe Freddie & Fannie worse off than we even feared? Maybe his concience got to him?

Moby Nick

rbgarr
04-22-2009, 02:47 PM
41 years old and had been with Freddie Mac since he was 25.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/business/23freddie.html?hp

Kaa
04-22-2009, 03:18 PM
I'm finding it VERY hard to believe that the job stresses alone would be enough to commit suicide...

Job stresses...?

Lessee, a CFO of Freddie Mac. Everyone talks about you as if you made a living torturing grannies for nickels, a Senator suggests people like you should commit harakiri. You're told you're directly responsible for the greatest recession in the last fifty years. Bet you get lots of letters hoping you die slowly and painfully. Quite a few letters will go into details. Some details will include what should be done to your wife and kids. Besides general hopes of you dying in various unpleasant ways, I also bet you get direct death threats, against you and your family.

Job stresses, right...

Kaa

Captain Intrepid
04-22-2009, 03:45 PM
This guy has only been CFO since September... and only on an interim basis, for that matter.

None of us really know, but the guys who commit suicide, it seems to me, are the ones who have a component of guilt. The ones wrongly accused without evidence or foundation don't seem to do this; they tend to fight. Maybe this guy was guilty about SOMETHING, who knows what, and it might not have been related to his job... we just don't know.

It depends on the person. People react differently to stress and until you're put in an incredibly stressful situation there's no way to tell what you'll do. Some people can kill your dog, rape your wife and hacksaw off your hand and walk away smiling, other people are tortured by guilt for things they never did to the point where they kill themselves.

TimH
04-22-2009, 03:49 PM
GUILT????

You think these people know the feeling of guilt?!?

Talk about disconnected.

Windsong
04-22-2009, 06:09 PM
Ask Barney Frank if he has any 3 strand. I have some he could use.

Captain Blight
04-22-2009, 06:27 PM
Good riddance. I'm hoping this is going to be new fad among Wall Street bigwigs..

BrianW
04-22-2009, 06:45 PM
What a very sad story. My condolences to his family and friends. No good comes from this...

Joe (SoCal)
04-22-2009, 06:58 PM
What a very sad story. My condolences to his family and friends. No good comes from this...

Well said BrianW.

What was most surprising to me was I'm 44 and no where near as accomplished as this guy was at 30. :eek: You may despise the companies but as an individual to be the CFO of a HUGE company at 41 is an amazing achievement.

I'm with Norman on this - there are probably much darker things going on than just his job.

2MeterTroll
04-22-2009, 08:03 PM
Sorrow for what he has done to his family.

not much for him; sounds like he might have just found what his company did to the country.
heartless maybe but suicide is the cowards way out. sorry but he's got less stress than the folks in Afghanistan and Iraq that are currently getting killed. he at least could do something about his situation ( resign or quit or some other tac)

Gary E
04-22-2009, 08:15 PM
Sorrow for what he has done to his family.

not much for him; sounds like he might have just found what his company did to the country.
heartless maybe but suicide is the cowards way out. sorry but he's got less stress than the folks in Afghanistan and Iraq that are currently getting killed. he at least could do something about his situation ( resign or quit or some other tac)

Tell us what Freddie Mac did?... what was their biz?

Ian Marchuk
04-22-2009, 08:32 PM
Most of these comments have to be the most heartless and sickening trash I have ever read on this forum.

cybulski
04-22-2009, 08:35 PM
sometimes people just get tired of living, we will probly never know the real, and complete story. Sh*t happens. I hope when i am done with life i have the courage to handle the situation.

PatCox
04-22-2009, 08:57 PM
Guilt is not what drives people to suicide, its a darkness worse than guilt. I don't think anyone at Freddie Mac has anything to be guilty about, they did what, they were too generous, thats all. One thing about Freddie Mac, it only gives money to people who need it. His situation is so different from the pirates of Wall Street.

He had been getting attacked for the last month or two over bonuses for Freddie Mac employees, media camped on his lawn.

I think the popular wave of hate about the bonuses is wrong, people just do not understand that people in the financial business are not paid the way we are, and the bonuses are not rewards for performance, they are part of the base compensation.

Bill R
04-23-2009, 05:04 AM
First, my condolences to the family. A true tragedy.

Bill R
04-23-2009, 05:08 AM
[meaning no disrespect to the deceased or the family]

Now, since Tylerdurden is not able to join us, I'll fill in for a second...

Obviously, he knew where the proverbial bodies were buried. Now the question is... wait for it....

Was it really suicide, or was he suicided? Was someone trying to keep him quiet?

(I'll put my tinfoil hat back on and go sit back down in the corner)

seanz
04-23-2009, 09:49 PM
... it is the NEARLY 100% lying consumer that has f-cked up this economy!




I've often wondered what goes on in the mind of a car salesman but have been too afraid to ask.

Captain Intrepid
04-23-2009, 10:20 PM
Consumers are often greedy liars and salespeople are often greedy liars that take advantage of that. I take great pride in the fact that I've talked people out of sales because I think they were making a mistake.

seanz
04-23-2009, 10:32 PM
F--- seanz and your pathetic a$$

I am sorry for your lot in life!

If you do not believe consumers are liars, then, you, sir, have about a THREE (3) IQ ...

YOU ARE AN IDIOT ...

Want to talk, seriouslyl, let me know ... but I do not waste public time with IDIOTS liken you!

;)

Oh, I'm sorry, your world is crashing down and you're looking for someone to blame and you picked 'lying consumers'. Happiness in your world must come from being able to ignore or dismiss reality.
This financial crisis is global. Global.......you know.......the rest of the world as well and that's because banks were lying about what the product was that they were selling. That, and they were willing to sell/loan to liars.......just like you are.


Of course there are other factors.............

"Hi, I'm Bernie, Welcome to Madoff Motors, have I got a deal for you."


;)

Joe (SoCal)
04-23-2009, 10:35 PM
Brad I'm worried about you. Your posts have grown in anger and volatility recently. Take this as it is meant from a friend. Its only a computer forum

peter radclyffe
04-24-2009, 12:52 AM
GUILT????

You think these people know the feeling of guilt?!?

Talk about disconnected.
they feel nothing, you reap what you sow

PeterSibley
04-24-2009, 03:13 AM
NEARLY 100% lying consumer that has f-cked up this economy!




Quite frankly Brad that is the strangest explanation of the current woes that I have ever heard !:eek:

Kind ,generous banks deceived by millions of duplicitous borrowers ...it beggars belief mate !

C. Ross
04-24-2009, 07:10 AM
None of us really know, but the guys who commit suicide, it seems to me, are the ones who have a component of guilt.

Do you think these millions of people all had a component of guilt?



Nearly a million people worldwide commit suicide each year, with anywhere from 10 to 20 million suicide attempts annually. About 30,000 people reportedly kill themselves each year in the United States. The true number of suicides is likely higher because some deaths that were thought to be an accident, like a single car accident, overdose or shooting, are not recognized as being a suicide. Suicide is the eighth leading cause of death in males and the 16th leading cause of death in females. It is the third leading cause of death for people 10 to 24 years of age. Trends in rates of suicides for teens (http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=2001) 15 to 19 years of age indicate that from 1950 to 1990, the frequency of suicides increased by 300% and from 1990 to 2003, that rate decreased by 35%.


Suicide is very strongly correlated with mental illness, mainly depression.

A friend of mine worked for a vicious and vindictive public official. When he killed himself 21 years ago many of us of course blamed his job and his boss. Then we learned that he had privately struggled with depression and chemical dependency issues for years. Who knows about this fellow, but I'd argue that his job situation may have been a trigger but unlikely the cause.

Condolences to his family and friends, and respect for his memory.

ishmael
04-24-2009, 07:26 AM
"Suicide is very strongly correlated with mental illness, mainly depression.

A friend of mine worked for a vicious and vindictive public official. When he killed himself 21 years ago many of us of course blamed his job and his boss. Then we learned that he had privately struggled with depression and chemical dependency issues for years. Who knows about this fellow, but I'd argue that his job situation may have been a trigger but unlikely the cause."

I agree. We don't know what was really going on here, and it's too facile to link it with our current financial difficulties.

Nanoose
04-24-2009, 10:18 AM
Good riddance. I'm hoping this is going to be new fad among Wall Street bigwigs..

:confused: :mad:

A 41 year old man kills himself, leaving a wife and child who will now not grow up with her father, and your response is 'good riddance'? This is the true side of you? :( :mad:

TomF
04-24-2009, 10:58 AM
We don't know what was really going on here, and it's too facile to link it with our current financial difficulties.Probably too facile to link it exclusively with our current financial difficulties. But considering the public outcry, the private letters he and his family have doubtless received (I could tell you stories from much lesser situations) ... I've little doubt that it was a contributing factor.

Awful situation, as suicides always are. Prayers for his family.

ishmael
04-24-2009, 11:23 AM
"Probably too facile to link it exclusively with our current financial difficulties. But considering the public outcry, the private letters he and his family have doubtless received (I could tell you stories from much lesser situations) ... I've little doubt that it was a contributing factor."

No doubt it didn't help.

It is terribly sad. A forty one year old guy, obviously pretty smart, leaving behind a wife and a young'un.

His mental health history will likely remain a mystery -- unless his wife chooses to disclose what was going on. Those records are jealously guarded, and rightly so.

We do have a right to know of any mismanagement. Those records aren't private. I suspect Freddie Mac got caught on the same bubble as thousands of other financial institutions, and that there was nothing untoward going on.

Garrett Lowell
04-27-2009, 07:48 PM
Whaddaya talkin' about? Hillary had him killed.

(I know, it's a sick joke... )

Norm, you and Moby-donkeys. Pure and simple. What respect I had for either of you is in the toilet.

Ian Marchuk
04-27-2009, 08:54 PM
What respect I had for either of you is in the toilet.[/QUOTE]

Yup , it won't take much to flush that little bit of respect down , now will it?
A low flush will handle it easily. Bernstein's class was left behind when he left elementary school.

Lew Barrett
04-27-2009, 09:35 PM
It's amazing to stumble onto a thread like this here. I don't know why I should be amazed though.

A story. A couple of years ago my major contract was threatened and I had employees leave. Who didn't leave that I could spare, I had to let go. It was an extremely depressing moment after 28 years of successful operation. I wasn't the only person around the country that was put into a very tough spot; exact details can't be put on a public forum, but the choices I was presented with ranged between exceptionally grim and untenable. A few of my closer friends here will remember my funk (Deb for one) although verbose as I am, I am not one to share these sorts of detail in public. And I still won't go into detail except as necessary to illustrate the point. The depression did drive me to seek help in various forms, and as much as I was anxious and depressed, it never occurred to me to do other than get through it.

At exactly the same time, one of my colleagues with whom I had been consulting (and commiserating) was put into exactly the same situation by exactly the same corporate entity for exactly the same reasons and ends. A Sophie's Choice was demanded. I made my choice, and he did the same. And essentially, we made the same choices. A week later, I heard that he had committed suicide.

I was stunned, but knew exactly what the pressures were that my colleague in the midwest had experienced. While I felt I'd be damned if I'd let my economic concerns get the best of me, I also knew exactly how much anxiety and misery the bastards had caused us and you know, I could sort of see how, in another frame of mind, I might have felt or reacted differently.

So I called a close friend who worked at the company that had leveraged us and suggested to him just how rotten a situation they had put us in, and inquired what he thought the chances were that "Bob" had committed suicide based on the crap "they" had put us through. Of course, he knew they had been unfair, even though he thought he they'd not exactly acted illegally, (debatable, but no more details here). But he also said to me, and I believed him: "You know Lew, there was a lot of other stuff going on for Bob. He's working through a divorce, and he has some other issues too."

I never did find out what those issues were. It didn't make the event any less tragic for me, and it didn't make it any easier for me to work through my own problems knowing what I did. I'm glad to say I've worked through my problems by and large. Oh, not the challenges that the bastards caused me; I still live with the repercussions of them. I just have been working through my own demons and fears.
You could say I've been counting my blessings.

I feel great sadness for anyone who didn't have the good fortune to get through their own trials to the other side. I have no idea what David Kellerman's demons were, but we all have them, I think. Or at least, those of us with brains do. Some people are just more fortunate than others. This is nothing less than a tragedy.

I could have made this post shorter by simply agreeing with Brian, who as Joe said, put it well. It's just that I can understand how something as powerful as a huge failure you are intimate with can be the straw that breaks your back.

To speculate on this without great intimacy is really futile. It's tragic.

Ian Marchuk
04-27-2009, 10:05 PM
Well said and a classy well thought out response Lew. Thank you.
I am well acquinted with the black dog , have been all my life, and there are spells when the battles are really tough slogging.
Reading some of the heartless , meanspirited , and outright moronic responses left me feeling bewildered at such crude and callow responses to appalling heartache and anguish.
Perhaps I am merely a optimistic pollyanna , appalled by the remarks posted from people that I had previously credited with a degree of maturity and compassion.
A tip of my hat to you Mr. Barrett , thank you.

Lew Barrett
04-27-2009, 10:29 PM
Thank you Ian. It has been a very interesting few years for me, but I have to say that even though I could imagine a far easier path to have travelled, for my part it has been very enlightening to have learned to live with a bit of fear. I had forgotten how to do that. I don't like it, and I don't recommend it, but it has helped shape what I personally believe is a new, better me. I have learned that quite literally, money isn't everything.

Something that it's very sad that Mr. Kellerman did not live to learn is that in these circumstances it is literally true that what doesn't kill you will make you stronger.

Landrith
04-27-2009, 11:05 PM
I have had survivor guilt. It got real bad during the downturn in 92. I had skills in epoxy lay up of metal bonded aluminum parts and had gone to a small aircraft company. The workforce was much older and had real aircraft skills. Riveting aluminum perfectly in hard to reach assemblies. Every week a new group of friends would be laid off. Even though they had decades of seniority. At the Christmas party they even laid off the girl they had assigned to organize the party.

Freddie Mac had big problems and was evading Congressional oversight even before the last midterm. There is a big drumbeat that it was not suicide. Instead an honest guy.

rbgarr
04-28-2009, 12:14 AM
The really sad thing about being so deep in depression or feeling so overwhelmed that it leads to suicide is that one's judgment is heavily impaired and deeply unreliable under those strains.

2MeterTroll
04-28-2009, 12:47 AM
I came round to see what all this was about again. you know what I think the bunch of ya are off your rockers.

you pity this dead guy.
I pity those who have to deal with his corps and the crap he left behind.

you all want to tell his kid why daddy snuffed himself in the basement?
you want to try and explain that his job was more important than his kid and his life?

what you gonna say in the night when she is crying?
what comfort can you give?

none cause the dude killed himself and you cant even collect on the insurance.

Bob Adams
04-28-2009, 01:39 AM
none cause the dude killed himself and you cant even collect on the insurance.

Not true. Most policies have a suicide exclusion for only the first year or two.

2MeterTroll
04-28-2009, 01:48 AM
Ive not seen one of those. mine has it writ in and i am pretty sure loydes is good insurance.

Garrett Lowell
04-28-2009, 07:59 AM
I lost a friend to suicide and my wife knows this guy's wife. So yes-I do feel pity and horror and sadness for this man and his family. FWIW, DK was asked to step in to that position after Obama's pick decided he couldn't take the heat and left the kitchen. And so he stepped up. So now the lot of you courageous people (we all know to whom I am referring) can go and slander someone else.

Lew Barrett
04-28-2009, 10:01 AM
Troll, I would say sympathy for the family and all the other collateral damage is implied.

Nanoose
04-28-2009, 10:31 AM
Thanks, Lew...

Lew Barrett
04-28-2009, 10:34 AM
I didn't take the gallows humor as a slur per se, but I do believe this has been a thread with twists and turns.

As is very plain, the truth is that while it's possible for our musings to somehow fall into shall we say, the wrong hands, it's unlikely that what we write here will have much by way of lasting consequence for people outside our circle.

From what has been written here and elsewhere, I'd be inclined to suspect that there were a lot of things going on in this man's life. What operates for me may not operate for him or you. That's what we should remember when we read of things like this; the details are unknown to us and judgment should be withheld. I can say that as breadwinners, we are, most of us, far more connected to our jobs and our success at them than we probably have given much credence to. At least, I discovered that I was.

I always thought it was "just" how I earned a living. I came to find out that even leaving it at that, it was no small part of my life. Doing your job well, and having people identify that you do, is a very large component of self worth for most of us. What else was going on is something we can't know in this case.

It remains very, very sad.

Lew Barrett
04-28-2009, 10:42 AM
Thanks, Lew...


Everybody gets to have their trial(s). Thank you, Deb.

Bob Adams
04-28-2009, 11:38 AM
Ive not seen one of those. mine has it writ in and i am pretty sure loydes is good insurance.

Well, mine is 1 year.