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View Full Version : maybe next election...I'll vote for change



Phillip Allen
04-19-2009, 02:29 PM
what do ya think?

mizzenman
04-19-2009, 02:31 PM
good idea if you dont like your current situation

jack grebe
04-19-2009, 02:47 PM
By that time, China may call the loans
and the U.S. will be part of that communist
state by default......Your vote will only get
you thrown in prison:o.



Course, I'll be living in the newly reformed
Republic of Texas:D.

Memphis Mike
04-19-2009, 02:58 PM
I voted for some change and I can't complain. My paychecks are bigger than they were before.

jack grebe
04-19-2009, 03:20 PM
I voted for some change and I can't complain. My paychecks are bigger than they were before.
I won't contest that. The programs Obama put into place will
create a larger paycheck( by a few dollars) then one was getting before.
But, what is the value of those dollars? If he thinks he can just
keep printing monopoly money, it will soon have the same value.

Captain Intrepid
04-19-2009, 03:21 PM
I've always voted since I was old enough. The apathetic view of "everyone's going to screw me over" that people hold of politics is bunk. You can always choose who you think will screw you over the least.

BrianW
04-19-2009, 03:38 PM
I did. He lost. ;)

Tom Montgomery
04-19-2009, 05:32 PM
Who did you vote for last November, Phillip?

The rightwing critics can't seem to make up their minds. One day they complain that Obama is not the agent of change he campaigned as. The next they complain that he is leading the country to socialism and will soon be confiscating all their guns.

I guess the idea is to throw all the mud possible to see if any will stick.

Phillip Allen
04-19-2009, 07:10 PM
Who did you vote for last November, Phillip?

.

I guess the idea is to throw all the mud possible to see if any will stick.

sorta like the left did...doncha think?

Lew Barrett
04-19-2009, 07:17 PM
Which left? As do you, I subscribe to the notion that you can't group everyone into one bag. The "left" I think you are discussing as a monolith doesn't really exist for me, but the left I think you mean, that is the Democrats, didn't so much throw mud as it did take issue with the policies that led us to the condition we find ourselves in. Sure, there was plenty of ranting, but there was, has been, and will continue to be, ample evidence of incompetence and malfeasance in the last administration's behavior to support a broad range of very supportable criticisms.

On what grounds can you say that things are not different or more reasonably transparent today than they were six months ago. The hole we are in will not be undug for a long, long time. Whose fault is that?

Phillip Allen
04-19-2009, 07:18 PM
Which left? As do you, I subscribe to the notion that you can't group everyone into one bag. The "left" didn't so much throw mud as it did take issue with the policies that led us to the condition we find ourselves in. Sure, there was plenty of ranting, but there was, has been, and will continue to be, ample evidence of incompetence and malfeasance in the last administration's behavior to support a broad range of very supportable criticisms.

On what grounds can you say that things are not different or more reasonably transparent today than they were six months ago. The hole we are in will not be undug for a long, long time. Whose fault is that?


if ya think everyone can't be thrown into one big bag, check out a gun thread

Nicholas Scheuer
04-19-2009, 07:19 PM
Karl Rove and his band of bandits will be glad to hear it.

Moby Nick

Tom Montgomery
04-19-2009, 07:29 PM
Oh, I see. You are just trolling.

Tom Montgomery
04-19-2009, 07:33 PM
Still, I am curious, Phillip. Is Barrack Obama a fraud who is not about to institute the change he promised? Or is he a radical who is about to institute monsterous change? Which is it?

Phillip Allen
04-19-2009, 07:38 PM
Still, I am curious, Phillip. Is Barrack Obama a fraud who is not about to institute the change he promised? Or is he a radical who is about to institute monsterous change? Which is it?


what he is is just another Cook County politician...when you lie down with dogs, you rise up with fleas

Tom Montgomery
04-19-2009, 07:42 PM
I have asked you several straightforward questions, beginning with "who did you vote for in November," and have yet to receive a straightforward answer.

Lew Barrett
04-19-2009, 07:46 PM
Phillip, what bag do I fit into? I am a gun owning liberal land owner. I suggest that you are shadow boxing on the forum with the same ten people and drawing conclusions based on the discussions with them, rather than granting some other range of possibility. I can certainly see the differences between Cris Ross, George Jung, you and tusti, as a diverse group of self proclaimed conservatives. Do I insist you are a Republican when you avow you are an independent? I will allow you your illusion if you'll accept mine without constant bickering!

Phillip Allen
04-19-2009, 07:46 PM
I have asked you several straightforward questions, beginning with "who did you vote for in November," and have yet to receive a straightforward question.

who I voted for wouldn't change the point at all...(McCain) but back to that point, what change did you EXPECT Obama was bringing...I see no change...politics as usual...even to your challange type of questions directed at me...politics as usual...no change

Tom Montgomery
04-19-2009, 07:54 PM
So you do not believe he is turning the USA into a socialist country and do not believe he will attempt to confiscate all your guns?

As for myself, I expect Obama to wind down the war in Iraq, concentrate in turn on Al Queda and the Taliban, and attempt to get all Americans covered by health insurance. I also expect a return of American diplomacy.

Tom Montgomery
04-19-2009, 07:58 PM
My question about who you voted for is relevant to the discussion. The only people I hear complaining about Obama "not changing anything as he promised" are people who didn't vote for him in the first place.

Phillip Allen
04-19-2009, 08:12 PM
My question about who you voted for is relevant to the discussion. The only people I hear complaining about Obama "not changing anything as he promised" are people who didn't vote for him in the first place.


just as one would expect...are you embarrassed?

Phillip Allen
04-19-2009, 08:15 PM
So you do not believe he is turning the USA into a socialist country and do not believe he will attempt to confiscate all your guns?

As for myself, I expect Obama to wind down the war in Iraq, concentrate in turn on Al Queda and the Taliban, and attempt to get all Americans covered by health insurance. I also expect a return of American diplomacy.


during the campaign the term was END THE WAR IN IRAQ. "I won't take your guns away"...not..."I won't take (all) your guns away"
also...it was gonna happen right away...not in some hazy, vague future. Not raising taxes means just that...not a word game but just what he said...transparent government means just that...not some play on words...

nothing's changed...the hobnailed boot is just on the other foot is all and that is not change at all

Phillip Allen
04-19-2009, 08:16 PM
Phillip, what bag do I fit into? I am a gun owning liberal land owner. I suggest that you are shadow boxing on the forum with the same ten people and drawing conclusions based on the discussions with them, rather than granting some other range of possibility. I can certainly see the differences between Cris Ross, George Jung, you and tusti, as a diverse group of self proclaimed conservatives. Do I insist you are a Republican when you avow you are an independent? I will allow you your illusion if you'll accept mine without constant bickering!

Lew...I'm speaking from inside the bag myself...

Tom Montgomery
04-19-2009, 08:21 PM
during the campaign the term was END THE WAR IN IRAQ. "I won't take your guns away"...not..."I won't take (all) your guns away"
also...it was gonna happen right away...not in some hazy, vague future. Not raising taxes means just that...not a word game but just what he said...transparent government means just that...not some play on words...

nothing's changed...the hobnailed boot is just on the other foot is all and that is not change at all

"The hobnail boot?"

I really think you should consider immigrating, Phillip. You clearly are not happy with the USA.

Phillip Allen
04-19-2009, 08:23 PM
"The hobnail boot?"

I really think you should consider immigrating, Phillip. You clearly are not happy with the USA.


nice defense...what are you defending?

Tom Montgomery
04-19-2009, 08:37 PM
I am making an obsevation. You have made any number of statements in various posts that indicate that you are profoundly unhappy with the USA. Why do you stay?

Phillip Allen
04-19-2009, 08:41 PM
it's my home

Tom Montgomery
04-19-2009, 08:53 PM
That is the only reason I can imagine.

Phillip Allen
04-19-2009, 08:54 PM
fortunatly, I am not limited by your imagination

BrianW
04-19-2009, 09:05 PM
Ah Phillip you fell for an old one.

The 'I'm leaving the country if so-an-so wins' is a classic liberal ploy.

Seems Tom is trying it out on you. :)

Phillip Allen
04-19-2009, 09:07 PM
Ah Phillip you fell for an old one.

The 'I'm leaving the country if so-an-so wins' is a classic liberal ploy.

Seems Tom is trying it out on you. :)


how did I "fall" for it Brian...it's an absurdity

ljb5
04-19-2009, 11:05 PM
what change did you EXPECT Obama was bringing...I see no change.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

:rolleyes:

Joe (SoCal)
04-20-2009, 04:23 AM
This message is hidden because Phillip Allen is on your ignore list (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

How come the rest of you don't do this ? It really is quite wonderful :)

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
04-20-2009, 04:30 AM
"The hobnail boot?"

I really think you should consider immigrating, Phillip. You clearly are not happy with the USA.

Emigrating perhaps?

P.L.Lenihan
04-20-2009, 04:33 AM
It might help with the paper work :)

Peter

Tom Montgomery
04-20-2009, 06:40 AM
Emigrating perhaps?

Yes. Of course.

Tom Montgomery
04-20-2009, 06:45 AM
Ah Phillip you fell for an old one.

The 'I'm leaving the country if so-an-so wins' is a classic liberal ploy.

Seems Tom is trying it out on you. :)

Ah yes. How well I remember the protests of the 60's and early 70's and the liberal/radical shouting: "America: Love It or Leave It!"

jack grebe
04-20-2009, 06:50 AM
The only people I hear complaining about Obama "not changing anything as he promised" are people who didn't vote for him in the first place.
You really need to get out of the house more often.

My neighborhood is full of people who
voted for him in both primary and general
elections and now regret it.

With 20/20 hindsite, Hillary would be prez.

Tom Montgomery
04-20-2009, 10:26 AM
With so many in Texas disapproving of President Obama, he must be wildly popular across the rest of the country. His job approval rating has averaged 63% during his time in office. That is a higher percentage than voted for him in November. The residents of our two largest states are sure an unhappy bunch.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/117598/Obama-Averages-Approval-First-Quarter-.aspx

Joe (SoCal)
04-20-2009, 10:47 AM
You really need to get out of the house more often.

My neighborhood is full of people who
voted for him in both primary and general
elections and now regret it.

With 20/20 hindsite, Hillary would be prez.

ACTUAL National approval polls do not support your personal poll

Phillip Allen
04-20-2009, 11:40 AM
ACTUAL National approval polls do not support your personal poll

uh...who paid for the poll?

Phillip Allen
04-20-2009, 11:40 AM
With so many in Texas disapproving of President Obama, he must be wildly popular across the rest of the country. His job approval rating has averaged 63% during his time in office. That is a higher percentage than voted for him in November. The residents of our two largest states are sure an unhappy bunch.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/117598/Obama-Averages-Approval-First-Quarter-.aspx


looks like a third don't approve...how many's that?

Captain Blight
04-20-2009, 12:03 PM
This is America, Philip. Love it or leave it. You need to support the President, particularly in this time of national difficulty. Criticism of Government is tantamount to sedition, and not far from treason! Why do you hate America, Phillip? Why do you hate my freedom?

See how it feels? That's what we on the Left went through for like 7 years.

Anyway: You keep asking what the "Change" was that I voted for, and what the change is. I shall endeavor to answer this with some degree of finality.

When I cast my vote for Mr Obama, I was casting a vote for ANYONE but McCain, ANYTHING but "four more years of the last eight years." I was voting for someone who (yes, as opposed to GWB) doesn't think ideology can stand in for governance. For someone who believes that feminism is the radical notion that women are equal too; who doesn't decry homosexuality as some disgusting aberration in public, and then consorts with known male prostitutes in his off hours (Google "Jeff Gannon" if you don't believe me). I wanted to vote for someone who doesn't think of America as some Norman Rockwell gingham-and-skinned-knees idyll; someone who has a chance of understanding that the USA no longer holds (and probably never will have again) the international eminence of the '50s and '60s. Who doesn't think that dinosaur of diplomacy, the Monroe Doctrine, needs to be crammed down the throats of people around the world. Who doesn't have a grudge against other world leaders for what they may or may not have done to his daddy. Who would roundly reject the Bush Doctrine of "Pre-Emptive Strike" (Or War as First Resort) and instead start using the diplomatic corps for its intended purpose. I was voting for someone who had more than three brain cells to rub together, and who was capable of nuanced, measured decisions instead of going with snap decisions and gut reactions. I wanted, in short, a leader I wasn't ashamed of.

I think I have that in Mr Obama. I can live with that decision very well.



I will have my own policies
I will sleep with a clear conscience
I will sleep in peace

maybe it sounds mean
but I really don't think so
you asked for the truth and I told you
through their own words
they will be exposed
they've got a severe case of
The emperor's new clothes...

Phillip Allen
04-20-2009, 12:07 PM
so you drank the Democrat koolaid labling McCain as another Bush...what a simpleton...think man...THINK!

TimmS
04-20-2009, 12:18 PM
All this bickering that is taking the forum over is really depressing. Fact is: we live in a democracy, we are stuck with what the majority voted for for 4 years, then we get to vote again. We all want change of one kind or another, I suggest stop whining and do something about it.

Captain Blight
04-20-2009, 12:19 PM
No you hick, I sifted through a hell of a lot of reporting, going back as far as I could (Like '82 or so, and a hell of a lot of what I read was puff-pieces on the fella) to find out what the guy was actually all about. I propbably put about twenty hours of reading in on McCain. I came to the conclusion he was another Bush ALL ON MY OWN. Phillip, I have very good research skills and am uncommonly fluent in the English language. I am more than capable of reaching a decision all on my own. The conclusion I came to is that mcCain was about ten years past his prime, and he (at least for several years) had major anger-control issues. He was a fighter pilot, and every fighter pilot I've ever met has been a swaggering dickheaded tool. He is an old man, with an incompetent idiot for a Veep candidate, and I didn't want to cast my vote for him.

Why have you drank the RepubliKKKan Kool-Aid that Obama is "just another Cook County Crook?" Have you proof of this? Proof from a reliable source?

John of Phoenix
04-20-2009, 12:25 PM
McCain WAS another dubya. If you don't believe me, ask Sarah.

Phillip Allen
04-20-2009, 12:29 PM
well...we'll see now. I intend to rub certain noses in their claim of "change" for the duration...unless the change (in a good sense) actualy manifests itself

if you don't llike the hot-seat, don't demand the throne

so far he looks like a Wilson/Chamberlin tea-party

John of Phoenix
04-20-2009, 12:34 PM
unless the change (in a good sense) actualy manifests itself
UNLESS?? Where have you been for the last three months?

Phillip Allen
04-20-2009, 12:38 PM
UNLESS?? Where have you been for the last three months?


I still want more time to consider...that's all...give em more rope (if it comes to that).
in the mean time, I actually hope for a positive turn around and a minimum of partisan damage from either side

Phillip Allen
04-20-2009, 12:40 PM
UNLESS?? Where have you been for the last three months?


look at it this way: some of us try to gage time by counting forrest fires and some try to measure tectonic movement...

John Smith
04-20-2009, 01:09 PM
This is America, Philip. Love it or leave it. You need to support the President, particularly in this time of national difficulty. Criticism of Government is tantamount to sedition, and not far from treason! Why do you hate America, Phillip? Why do you hate my freedom?

See how it feels? That's what we on the Left went through for like 7 years.

Anyway: You keep asking what the "Change" was that I voted for, and what the change is. I shall endeavor to answer this with some degree of finality.

When I cast my vote for Mr Obama, I was casting a vote for ANYONE but McCain, ANYTHING but "four more years of the last eight years." I was voting for someone who (yes, as opposed to GWB) doesn't think ideology can stand in for governance. For someone who believes that feminism is the radical notion that women are equal too; who doesn't decry homosexuality as some disgusting aberration in public, and then consorts with known male prostitutes in his off hours (Google "Jeff Gannon" if you don't believe me). I wanted to vote for someone who doesn't think of America as some Norman Rockwell gingham-and-skinned-knees idyll; someone who has a chance of understanding that the USA no longer holds (and probably never will have again) the international eminence of the '50s and '60s. Who doesn't think that dinosaur of diplomacy, the Monroe Doctrine, needs to be crammed down the throats of people around the world. Who doesn't have a grudge against other world leaders for what they may or may not have done to his daddy. Who would roundly reject the Bush Doctrine of "Pre-Emptive Strike" (Or War as First Resort) and instead start using the diplomatic corps for its intended purpose. I was voting for someone who had more than three brain cells to rub together, and who was capable of nuanced, measured decisions instead of going with snap decisions and gut reactions. I wanted, in short, a leader I wasn't ashamed of.

I think I have that in Mr Obama. I can live with that decision very well.
My neighbors were apprehensive about a black man as president. I said to them back in October that if Barack and Michelle Obama were a white couple, they'd be the poster family for America. They are the family the republicans have always "preached" about. Neither was born into wealth, and both are self made examples of what hard work and intelligence can get you in this country.

We now have a president who is intelligent, competent, and engages his brain before speaking. He likes to get all the facts, and takes input from multiple points of view before making a decision.

He learns quickly, and when he is asked a question, he seems to always have a grasp of the heart of that question.

I don't know what more we'd want in a captain for our ship.

I do grow weary of the media and how it frequently misrepresents things. Let's start with the budget. If one is going to have a serious discussion about any president's budget, one must start with the actual numbers at the moment he is sworn into office. No?

Even the Wall Street Journal had, over an article on the Obama Military Budget, a headline that said ".....gutting...." Hardly a proper term for a budget that's increasing.

Obama's overall budget is actually smaller than Bush's was, as Bush kept a couple of sets of books, but you'd never know that by most of the reporting. Where's that damned liberal media when we need it?

ljb5
04-20-2009, 01:09 PM
look at it this way: some of us try to gage time by counting forrest fires and some try to measure tectonic movement...

And some people avoid gauging it at all costs.

Simple question, Phillip: Can you identify aspects of "change" which have been realized?

It's a bit of a trap. Either you must admit you're unaware, in which case you're clueless.... or you must admit you are aware, in which case you're a liar.

John Smith
04-20-2009, 01:14 PM
well...we'll see now. I intend to rub certain noses in their claim of "change" for the duration...unless the change (in a good sense) actualy manifests itself

if you don't llike the hot-seat, don't demand the throne

so far he looks like a Wilson/Chamberlin tea-party

Suppose, given the short amount of time our new president has been in office, we look upon the fact that the entire federal budget is now on line, and that it includes ALL monies spent, as a positive change.

Then, let's see where we are in a year or two. I used to laugh at people when they were arguing on Friday about who's going to win Sunday's football game. Much of this is the same. Obama's just received the kick-off. Game's got a long way to go.

Meanwhile, let's hope he succeeds. We all need him to.

John Smith
04-20-2009, 01:15 PM
I still want more time to consider...that's all...give em more rope (if it comes to that).
in the mean time, I actually hope for a positive turn around and a minimum of partisan damage from either side

I'm not sure what you mean by "partisan damage".

Phillip Allen
04-20-2009, 01:26 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by "partisan damage".

Republican obstructionism or Democrat sneakyness...maybe I should say "and" instead of "or"

Canoeyawl
04-20-2009, 01:31 PM
See how it feels? That's what we on the Left went through for like 7 years.



Ahh Shucks, This is nothing compared to the last 7 years...

We had an attack on the "homeland", started a couple of wars, changed the meaning of the Geneva convention, added the largest bureaucracy in the history of the country came up with a right leaning supreme court, and for the last four years the sabre rattling was enough to cause me to lose sleep, worried that I would wake up to the news that we had bombed Iran or Korea or someplace - anyplace there wasn't good "Christians".

Phillip Allen
04-20-2009, 01:37 PM
Suppose, given the short amount of time our new president has been in office, we look upon the fact that the entire federal budget is now on line, and that it includes ALL monies spent, as a positive change.

Then, let's see where we are in a year or two. I used to laugh at people when they were arguing on Friday about who's going to win Sunday's football game. Much of this is the same. Obama's just received the kick-off. Game's got a long way to go.

Meanwhile, let's hope he succeeds. We all need him to.
certainly