Back to rope

[John Smith]

Other than taping, burning, or gluing the ends of a cut piece of nylon or dacron line, does anyone have a different way to keep the ends behaved?

[James McMullen]

Palm and needle whipping.

[Yeadon]

I have to shut the cats out of the room when I whip the end of a line, same as all sailors have done for centuries.

[John Smith]

I have to shut the cats out of the room when I whip the end of a line, same as all sailors have done for centuries.
According to a book I got, the preferred way to cut synthetic line is with a hot knife, something I'm unlikely to have on the boat.

[Captain Intrepid]

Sorry to tell you, but your book is wrong. The preferred method has always been whipping, generally two palm and needle whippings, one half the line's diameter from the end, the other a few inches from the end in case the first whipping chafes through completely.

[Mike DeHart]

Backsplices work nicely and look great if the tucks are tapered into the line gradually. Make a few tucks, cut a few yarns from each strand, take a few tucks, continue until you run out of yarns. You can also remove half the yarns in each strand after making the crown if you want the finished splice to be not much fatter than the original line.

[John Smith]

Sorry to tell you, but your book is wrong. The preferred method has always been whipping, generally two palm and needle whippings, one half the line's diameter from the end, the other a few inches from the end in case the first whipping chafes through completely.

Book also has a section on whipping. The hot knife, which looks a lot like a soldering gun, apparently heats the cut of synthetic to melting temp, but has better control than a lighter does when one burns the rope.

[Chip-skiff]

I've used heat-shrink casing most often used for electrical cables. Looks neater than tape and keeps the fibers from unravelling, but doesn't stand up to much use.

For ropes in regular use, I'd go with the common or palm-and-needle whipping (cf. Hervey Garrett Smith, The Arts of the Sailor. p. 59).

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

.
While it is possible to backsplice plaited rope it's also a bit of a bore, and I myself would use a hot knife (except I wouldn't be using plaited line in the first place.) A whipping that's stitched through the line is okay. A common whipping isn't, as the lack of friction will allow it to slide right off the end.

If you're talking about synthetic three-strand, then the traditional splicing methods work, they look better, and they hold better. The only difference when using artificial material is that you'd be well-advised to put in a couple of extra tucks each time to allow for the lowered surface friction between the strands.

And if you're talking about temporary whippings to hold the ends of the strands together while you complete a traditional splice, then a constrictor knot is the bee's knees, the cat's pyjamas, and the ant's pants.

Mike
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[RFNK]

a constrictor knot is the bee's knees, the cat's pyjamas, and the ant's pants


I'd have to agree that an ant's pants serving as cats' pyjamas would be a constrictor. Regarding the bee's knees, I'm not convinced. Rick

[Captain Intrepid]

Book also has a section on whipping. The hot knife, which looks a lot like a soldering gun, apparently heats the cut of synthetic to melting temp, but has better control than a lighter does when one burns the rope.

I've accomplished the same task with a lighter and a cheap knife which i've heated the blade of. That's with poly rope I don't care about and won't be handling. Anything I'm handling, at minimum I'd do a common whipping. For one thing, a melted end can split. Also, the melted end is hard and sharp; not all that great to handle.

Learn the proper whipping techniques, and no one will ever tell you that you've done it wrong.

[paladin]

Gotta go with Mike (Wooden boat fittings) on this one....I've tried all the methods at various times under almost all circumstances and the best, long lasting ways are those that he will espouse....

[Canoeyawl]

When I'm becalmed and drifting with the tide I’ll do a whipping and stitch, the rest of the time it’s Scotch 33 electrical tape…’cause it’s in my pocket.
Can’t sail without it.

[Rational Root]

A gas powered soldering iron. This one has a knife attachment. Works just fine. Not nearly as nice as a proper whipping, and probably not much better than a simple cancer-stick lighter.

[John Smith]

A gas powered soldering iron. This one has a knife attachment. Works just fine. Not nearly as nice as a proper whipping, and probably not much better than a simple cancer-stick lighter.

All this is quite interesting. Seems to me, if I were a rope manufacturer, I'd develop and sell something to make this all simpler.

I envision something that you wrap around the rope where you plan to cut, maybe heat shrink before making the cut, and then cut in the middle.

[Brian Palmer]

All this is quite interesting. Seems to me, if I were a rope manufacturer, I'd develop and sell something to make this all simpler.

I envision something that you wrap around the rope where you plan to cut, maybe heat shrink before making the cut, and then cut in the middle.

That is basically what you can do with thread and needle whippings. You put the two whippings on and then cut the rope between them so the rope doesn't have any chance at all to fray.

Brian

[Rational Root]

All this is quite interesting. Seems to me, if I were a rope manufacturer, I'd develop and sell something to make this all simpler.

I envision something that you wrap around the rope where you plan to cut, maybe heat shrink before making the cut, and then cut in the middle.

Yes, Duck Tape !!!

http://www.duckproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=1&subid=1&plid=720

[Clyderigged]

The virtues of the needle and palm whipping are many indeed and the only way to finish off the way in a traditional and seaman like fashion. Let's not forget the other added benefit...that the traditional 2 whippings on the end of a line help in reeve it through blocks and the like. The 2 whippings stiffen the bitter end just enough to prevent it from folding in on itself. Very handy indeed, especially aloft on a windy day with one hand for yourself and one for the ship.

The whippings usually are separated by 2 to 3 rope diameters. I find 3 works best.

[Hughman]

The thing about a hot knife, is that it can leave a sharp burr, and/or a hard spot that makes it fussy to feed through a block, and so on. leave it soft.

use a pair of stitched whippings, ('marlinespike sailor, later editions), and cut between them. Now, about cutting: don't saw through. Use a mallet, a stout knife's edge, and a board. Much more satisfying, on several counts.

[Hughman]

weird. my post above doesn't show in the list.

[Hughman]

The thing about a hot knife, is that it can leave a sharp burr, and/or a hard spot that makes it fussy to feed through a block, and so on. leave it soft.

use a pair of stitched whippings, ('marlinespike sailor, later editions), and cut between them. Now, about cutting: don't saw through. Use a mallet, a stout knife's edge, and a board. Much more satisfying, on several counts.

well, it's really there, in any case....

[dredbob]

John,

You've had several questions that could easily have been answered by almost any of the numerous books on marlinspike seamanship.

I suggest starting with Hervey Garrett Smith's _The Arts of the Sailor_ as an introduction to the art, covering the basics and just about everything you need to know for working with three strand rope.

Also get Brion Toss' _The Complete Rigger's Apprentice_ which will take you to a more advanced level and has good coverage of more modern braided line techniques.

If you really want to get deep into it, spring for _The Ashley Book of Knots_, by Clifford Ashley. And unlike the name suggests, it's far more than just a book of knots.

And there's plenty more good books on knots and rigging; some of the ones geared more towards climbing and modern rescue will have some knots that most sailors might not be familiar with but which have proven reliable in use with modern cordage.

Bob

[StevenBauer]

I'm surprised no one has given John any pictures or videos yet.

Check out j. and k. From the "Knots to Know" poster.

http://www.boatsafe.com/marlinespike/Image8.gif

This illustration was taken directly from the U.S. Coast Guard exam prep materials. Knot W, as illustrated, is a thief knot, not a square knot as it is identified in the text. Thanks to Robert Kibitz for noticing this!
E: Timber hitch and half hitch: used for hauling timbers.
F: Round turn and two half hitches: use to permanently tie up to a piling.
G: Fisherman’s bend AKA anchor bend: used to tie a rode to the anchor.
H: Becket or sheet bend: used to tie lines of different sizes together.
I: Bowline on a bight: used for rescuing a person by putting a leg though each loop if conscious or if unconscious put both legs through one loop and the chest and arms through the other.
J: Plain whipping: a quick way to whip the end of line.
K: Sailmaker’s whip: requires a sailmaker’s needle.
L.: Double blackwall hitch: for attaching a line to a cargo hook.
M: Carrick bend: for connecting two large hawsers.
N: Stopper: a length of line attached to running with a rolling hitch in order to relieve strain on the running rigging.
O: Barrel hitch: for lifting barrels.
P: Rolling hitch: used for fastening a line to a spar.
Q: Bowline: the king of knots. Used to form a temporary loop in a line. Won’t slip or jam under strain.
R: Double sheet bend: used to secure two lines of different diameters.
S: Blackwall hitch: used to attach a line to cargo hook.
T: French bowline: used like a bowline on the bight for rescue.
U: Half hitch: a turn of line around an object with the bitter end led back through the bight.
V: Marline hitch: used to lash canvas to a spar.
W: Square knot AKA reef knot: used to connect two lines of different diameters.
X: Clove hitch: use to temporarily attach a line to a piling. Can come loose unless it is followed by a half hitch.

[George Ray]

(i) Wrap the line with tape (masking usually) as tightly as possible.
(ii) Cut the tape in the middle.
(iii) Melt the end(s) with your favorite heat source. (small butane torch)
(iv) Pull off tape to reveal a very trim neat melted end.
(v) Whip the end as soon as you can get a round tuit.

[John Smith]

John,

You've had several questions that could easily have been answered by almost any of the numerous books on marlinspike seamanship.

I suggest starting with Hervey Garrett Smith's _The Arts of the Sailor_ as an introduction to the art, covering the basics and just about everything you need to know for working with three strand rope.

Also get Brion Toss' _The Complete Rigger's Apprentice_ which will take you to a more advanced level and has good coverage of more modern braided line techniques.

If you really want to get deep into it, spring for _The Ashley Book of Knots_, by Clifford Ashley. And unlike the name suggests, it's far more than just a book of knots.

And there's plenty more good books on knots and rigging; some of the ones geared more towards climbing and modern rescue will have some knots that most sailors might not be familiar with but which have proven reliable in use with modern cordage.

Bob
I'm not sure how "deeply" I'm inclined to get into this, but I'm curious as to how others handle this stuff.

I've a small boat with small lines. So far, I've been able to burn through with one of those things that are long, skinny, gas matches for lighting charcoal. When that's not available, I put tape around before cutting. I really don't remember, when I was young, the ropes of the day being so misbhaved when cut.

I should also point out that on occasion, I've used some fairly fast setting glue.

[RFNK]

I really don't remember, when I was young, the ropes of the day being so misbhaved when cut.


Correct me if I'm wrong (as if I need to invite THAT) but weren't water, bees wax and other substances used to assist with ropework of this kind with the older cotton, hemp, linen ropes etc.? The new ropes can't be saturated so easily with anything so are harder to work in that respect. I'm often bemused by the old pictures of really limp rope when I'm battling with a splice in some horrible nylon anchor line etc. Rick

[PeterSibley]

I cut with a sharp knife , melt and shape to a dome then whip .It's plastic rope ....what do we expect ! It works , it looks seaman like to my eyes and that's enough for me .

[Captain Blight]

In the riverine tugboat world, we use regular black vinyl electrical tape for whippings. Stretch it as tight as it'll stand, make your whipping at least a rope's diameter long, and it will last at least 5 years with absolutely no care at all.

[johnw]

I'm not sure how "deeply" I'm inclined to get into this, but I'm curious as to how others handle this stuff.

I've a small boat with small lines. So far, I've been able to burn through with one of those things that are long, skinny, gas matches for lighting charcoal. When that's not available, I put tape around before cutting. I really don't remember, when I was young, the ropes of the day being so misbhaved when cut.

I should also point out that on occasion, I've used some fairly fast setting glue.


Whip it. Whip it good.

[Steve Lansdowne]

For that really non-traditional look, just stop by your local Waste Marine store and get a can of plastic goop sold for just this purpose. I believe you just dip the end of the line in, pull it out, and let it dry. This may be the same stuff I bought long ago that was designed to add a rubber coating on tool handles to prevent rust, improve the grip, and aid in tool identification.

[Canoeyawl]

In the riverine tugboat world, we use regular black vinyl electrical tape for whippings. Stretch it as tight as it'll stand, make your whipping at least a rope's diameter long, and it will last at least 5 years with absolutely no care at all.
In Seawater we only get four years...

[BrianW]

In the riverine tugboat world, we use regular black vinyl electrical tape for whippings.

Same thing we use in the spill response world. Must go through several rolls a season, and the circle worn into the float coat pocket isn't a can of Copenhagen, it's a roll of electrical tape. :)

[Bob Cleek]

Well, if you have ever had one of those hard melted plastic lumps at the end of a synthetic line weather and then crack in use, and slice a chunk of meat out of the palm of your hand, you'll never ever do it any other way than a proper sewn whipping. Doesn't happen all that often, but when it does...

[Vince Brennan]

Bob, Paladin, Hugh and all the others who advocate a turned, or plain, or sailmaker's whipping on ANY line are spot-on.

Now, I donno wanna get all "salty" and "Traditional" on everyone, but ANY real sailor who sees a piece of line taped, or burnt, or shrinked (shrunk?) as a terminal end aboard a vessel will usually quietly leave at the first opportunity... for if the owner doesn't have the knowledge to make a proper whipping end, it's a pretty good bet that there are other areas as could use improvement....

Exception: three constrictor knots at 1/2 rope diameter from the end back. Perfectly acceptable as a jury-rig whipping in active line or as a 'permanent' whipping on rope that will be left on a reel until pressed into service.

My 2 cents, entirely. YMMV. Mine don't.

[BrianW]

Well it seems everyday during our marine season I'm setting or pulling a mooring, or anchoring oil containment boom (for practice, don't get worried :)) and we end up hanging over the gunnel needing to cut or adjust a line. Often with the wind or current threatening to push the boat into the anchor lines and fouling the props. While there might be enough time to make a few quick wraps of electrical tape before cutting a line, there's no way I'd be whipping out a needle and thread.

[Dave Hadfield]

Well, I guess I'm alone.

On Drake, I use a Double-constrictor, in tarred nylon, pulled as tight as my arms allow. Then -- HERE'S THE KEY -- I cut the twine ends of the knot about 1/3 inch long, move out of the wind, melt them (not the rope), wet my finger, then push the melting ends into little "buttons" right down at the knot.

These "buttons" act like nuts on a bolt, and won't let the ends go back through the knot.

Done this way, I have NEVER had one come undone, and it takes only a minute.

There are no melted rope-ends on Drake, and no taped ends.

And she carries a lot of lines.

Dave

[bucheron]

will I be safe with some heresy if I sneak in this late?

I cut bits of copper pipe, so I have a circle, then cut that lengthwise so I have a little metal "C".

Depending on the rope diameter, I may need to cut out a little segment to make it the right size.

I slip it over the rope end and squeeze and tweak it into a tight fit on the rope, using pliers and a nail-puller. Sometimes I then melt the end.

It makes the end smaller than the natural diameter of the rope.

Is ferrule the right name? I guess it could be dangerous flicking around. Disclaimer - "Do not use this method." I try not to have ends flicking around.

cheers buchie.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

The virtues of the needle and palm whipping are many indeed and the only way to finish off the way in a traditional and seaman like fashion. Let's not forget the other added benefit...that the traditional 2 whippings on the end of a line help in reeve it through blocks and the like. The 2 whippings stiffen the bitter end just enough to prevent it from folding in on itself. Very handy indeed, especially aloft on a windy day with one hand for yourself and one for the ship.

The whippings usually are separated by 2 to 3 rope diameters. I find 3 works best.

That's exactly what I do. Always two palm and needle whippings, each one diameter long, three diameters apart.

[CundysHarbor]

I have been putting sewn whippings on lines for 54 years and have never had one fail. It is best to use flat whipping twine as it builds fast and is unlikely to roll. With practice, a whipping can be put on in ten minutes. If you do a seamanlike job with the first one, there is no need for a second one further up the line.
Dave

[James McMullen]

bucheron, that metal ferrule idea sounds positively awful! The last thing you want is a hard metal weight at the end of a rope.

There's no need to reinvent the wheel here, my friends. Look, there is no debate about it. All of the experienced sailors here agree that a palm and needle whipping is the only optimal solution. Now go buy a needle and do it right--it's not like it's particularly hard to do or something. It only takes a minute or two at the most to do a proper job.

[StevenBauer]

I was looking through the bookshelves the other day for books on knots and ropework for my daughter and found one on my son's shelf that I hadn't seen before. What a fantastic book: Des Pawson's "The Handbook Of Knots" I came up with half a dozen knot books but this one stands out. Awesome instructions and drawings, what a great book.


Steven

[Covite]

Palm and needle whippings, no question, for all the reasons listed above. The best instructions I've seen in print are in "The Complete Rigger's Apprentice" by Brion Toss - very clear explanation. I use two whippings, about three rope diameters apart.

When there's no time for a palm and needle whipping, I use two constrictor knots, preferably in tarred marline, hove taut with a marlingspike hitch on each side of the constrictor. That lasts just fine until there's time to get out the palm and needle.

[Wiley Baggins]

I'd have to agree that an ant's pants serving as cats' pyjamas would be a constrictor. Regarding the bee's knees, I'm not convinced. Rick

BZ!

[Smacksman]

The braid on braid type of rope (like Marlowbraid) seem to have a habit of breaking a melted end as the outer braid stretches differently to the inner braid.

A whipping with extra stitches through seems to last ok.