Best choice for steam bending

[dmede]

I'll be steam bending on the cutwaters for my canoe soon. The dimensions are 3/4"x3/4" (then beveled to a leading edge of 1/4" after installation). I'll be picking this up at my local Southern Lumber so it will probably be kiln dried. What is the best choice for this application: ash, oak, other?

Also, does anybody have a good web site with info on steam bending?

Thanks.

[hoz]

I was told that in order to bent a solid piece of wood it needs to be green, not dried. And then it should be "backed up " on the outer bend with a flat piece of metal to prevent splitting out.

I bent the stems for my canoe from 1/4" ash laminations, let them dry on the form and then glued them up with epoxy.

[JimD]

Oak is hard to beat. I've been practicing making mast hoops with it, bending strips into 5 inch diameter circles. Ash gets recommended for that too. Should be backed for a really tight bend. But other wood such as doug fir will take a fair bend as well. I've been laminating larger frames with it because it likes epoxy better than oak.

[dmede]

Thats a good note: I will be using epoxy to glue this peice in (with screws to hold until it sets of course).

On the comment about it needing to be green, can it be soaked to make it more workable if it is too dry?

[Bob Smalser]

Redwood country?

Give Baileys in Laytonville a call for local sawmillers near you...green, clear tight-grained DF should be easy to come by and dirt cheap....as should Oregon (Garry) White Oak.

You can soak kilned wood for a couple weeks, first, if you like, but if it's the normal canoe bend I'm thinking of you'll have a lot fewer failures with green or airdried stock.

baileys-online.com 707-984-6133

[ 10-15-2003, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Bruce Hooke]

I would want something a bit harder than douglas fir for the cutwater.

Either ash or white oak should bend quite nicely. If your's is a typical canoe, the bend you are looking at is not at all extreme, so I think if you find a nice piece of straight-grained wood you should be able to convince it to make the bend even if it is kiln dried. Soaking it for a week or two is a good idea. Ash is often frowned upon for boat work because it is rot prone, but you would have to seriously mistreat a canoe for the cutwater to start to rot. Oak can sometimes gives people trouble with epoxy, which would be a good argument for going with ash.

I would let the cutwater dry for at least a week before trying to glue it with epoxy, because epoxy does not like wet wood. Give the back of the cutwater a good going over with sandpaper before you apply the glue (to remove an contamination).

[Bob Smalser]

While I'd normally agree about store-bought DF....the local sawyers near you in Redwood country will likely have some tight-drained old or shade growth that'll work just dandy.

About 75pct the strength of W.O. by the book...but the tight stuff's heartwood is significantly stronger and more durable than modern lab data done on dimensional construction lumber. Use the same scantling size and don't worry about it.

Hardness? Airdry it for three years and driving nails with a 23oz framing hammer will give you fits. Clinch it while it's still warm.

But if your curve is exceptionally tight, green or 20pct M/C Garry Oak would be an easier choice....same properties as eastern White Oak, and you don't need long lengths for your purpose.

[ 10-16-2003, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[D Gobby]

Dmede

If you don't need to long of pcs I have some air dried Anglique(sp). I do have some nice 3/4" x 3/4" laying about that I could part with no charge. I work right down the street from the Southern Lumber yard. If you would like to try it your welcome to it. Anglique is a little stronger than White Oak and about the same weight.

E-mail me if you would like some I have not had good luck steam bending kiln dried Doug Fir.

Darrel

[Jack Heinlen]

Well, the answer to your header is easy, White Oak, right off the saw.

However. Um. Buy some White Oak, ya only need a small plank. If it's dry, soak it. If Red Oak is all that's available use that, for this. Ash is okay too. The last two aren't total pariahs for this application. Just keep them well sealed and store the boat well dry.

[Bob Perkins]

I build a strip canoe about 6 years ago.

Here is what I did:

Used ash, it is easy to work with and takes steam will.

My original piece was sliced into 1/4" strips.

Then steam them (I think I went 20 minutes with a tea kettle on a camp stove, using a cardboard tube that carpeting is rolled on).

When its time, have all your clamps ready and bend around your form, clamp in place and let sit over night.

The next day - unclamp, laminate them together with epoxy and reclamp.

Thats it.

I Suppose you could use any wood you want because it is all going to be either epoxy and/or varnish encapsulated.

You can steam the 3/4" piece, but if the radius is small - it may behave badly. I think the 1/4" laminations saved me a lot of hassle. Finally - for such a small piece - green or dried probably doesn't mean much if you go the lamination route.

On my painfully old website below - I cronicled the construction of my strip canoe..

[cs]

On my strip canoe I was having trouble bending the keel strip. I was using Doug Fir and steaming and it would almost make the curve and than snap. I was trying to bend a 1/4" strip about 180 degrees in 18" and it just wasn't working.

Went and got some kiln dried ash. I cut it up into the strips I needed and soaked it in water for 3 days. I than took a piece and tried to make the bend without steaming (just to see how it would bend) and it made the bend with no problems and no worries. Below is a photo of the keel strip bent into place.

http://a5.cpimg.com/image/0D/84/15050765-b241-028001E0-.jpg

Chad

[dmede]

Thanks for all the reasponses! The keel on this canoe (a 15' lapstrake by W. Simmons) is a pretty gentle curve so should not be too difficult to bend to.

http://www.duck-trap.com/megantic1o.jpg

Sounds like white oak or maybe ash will work fine. I think I gave the wrong dimensions earlier though. In order for the cutwater to fair into the keel strip it will need to be 3/4" wide by 1 1/8" thick (molded). So i will be bending itacross it's thicker dimension, does that present a problem? Should I cut this in to two or three strips and laminate instead?

Also the question of finding a local sawyer for some green or air dried wood brings up another question I was going to post today: anybody know where a good local sawyer is in the Bay Area? ;)

[dmede]

Darell, thank you very much for that offer. I realized this morning that the finished dimensions will need to be 3/4" x 1 1/8". However my keel strip needs to be 3/4 x 3/4. Would the angelique be a good choice for that or is that a waste of good wood? The full length is probably something like 10' but I could scarf a few peices together.