Define boatbuilding White Oak "Quercus"

[davidatlantic]

What is the White Oak that is always mentioned as a boatbuilding material? My only reference book on the trees of North America states that there are 58 species of Oak with an additional 86 hybrids recognized. The White Oak "Quercus Alba" is recognized as a general heading and I wonder if there is anything more specific to it than that. Did the boatbuilders of the past search out types of Oak known for specific properties? I have a yard full of oak and plenty of access to non-kilned sawmill oak right here where I live, but I want to be sure to use the right stuff!

David Bond :rolleyes:

[Hazy Chris]

I may get corrected on this, but Querqus Alba, should be pretty specific, at least from the scientific perspective. That is a Genus and the species. (Alba means white incedentally) That is the tree most people are talking about when they say white oak in the boatbuilding sense. Below that classification there are only varieties-more for the plant breeder, and sub species, these should not be too different biologically or rot resistantce wise.
I think the problem is that people tend to use the term white oak for all kinds of other trees. Querqus Garrayana is also a white oak, but it is oregon white oak or garry oak, a different beast. Querqus bicolor is swamp white oak -yet another. This may not be much help, but if you can somehow make sure that what you have is querqus Alba you are in buisness. Got any extra?
This might help: White Oak page (http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/syllabus/qalba.htm)

[ 09-18-2002, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: Hazy Chris ]

[Bob Cleek]

Chris is generally right. "Quercus" is "Oak" and "alba" is "white." That's Eastern White Oak. But, just to make it more confusing, "Quercus Garryana" is "Garry oak" or "Oregon White Oak" and it's a white oak as well. There's a lot more, to boot. Many, many woods are great for boatbuilding. The old standbys often are not any better than others, they just have been used more. Take "alba." Because it was a dominant hardwood in the eastern forests when they were building wooden ships one or two hundred years ago, and it was the favored boatbuilding wood, every book says use it. Nothing wrong with it. Great stuff. I wouldn't make myself crazy trying to find "alba" in Oregon, though, when you've got so much "garry" up there you can't believe and it's essentially the same thing, for boat purposes. Fortunately, God made good boatbuilding trees grow pretty much everywhere there's water to sail boats in, except for the arctic... they're stuck with seal skins and whale bones... But the rest of us have a lot of choices. Get yourself a few good books on wood. It's fascinating stuff. Amazing what you can find for free or close to it, too. People don't know the difference between furiture and firewood!

Take a look at the leaves. If they have stickery pointy edges, it's a red oak. If they have rounded lobes, like the classic "oak leaf" of oak leaf cluster fame, then it's a white oak. Beyond that, there's dozens of different types.

[ 09-18-2002, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: Bob Cleek ]

[Wayne Jeffers]

Oaks are classified into two groups from both a biological and lumberman's standpoint, white and red.

From a biological standpoint, white oaks are distinguished by leaves that have rounded tips and acorns that take two full seasons to mature (they only drop acorns every other year.) All red oaks have leaves with pointed tips and they drop acorns every year. Members of each group can also be distinguished generally by the bark, but there are enough exceptions to the general rules on appearance of the bark to be troublesome.

Within each group there are many species, but from a commercial lumber standpoint, trees of the white oak group are often not further distinguished, nor are trees of the red oak group. The physical characteristics of all members of each group are sufficiently similar as to be interchangeable for most purposes. All white oaks are reasonably decay resistant and suitable for boatbuilding. One white oak species, live oak, is about half-again heavier (and harder) than most other white oak species.

More information on oaks, and other commercially valuable trees here: http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/CH01.pdf

Wayne

[Ed Harrow]

Just remember what Bud said about Quercus Millus (That's oak that just kept getting whiter as it neared the mill)

[Ron Williamson]

What I think you really want in oak,is the tyloses."White" oak has them,"Red"oak doesn't.Tyloses are(is?)the foamy stuff clogging the pores."Red"oaks have no tyloses and fluid can be drawn from one end of a straight-grained board to the other.I would imagine that this characteristic could be exploited to your advantage with wood preservative.
R

[Thaddeus J. Van Gilder]

In addition to Tylose in the vascular tissue, look for medulary rays in excess to 1 1/8 inches in length.

Thad

[Hazy Chris]

So, does anyone have any long term experience with using Oregon White Oak? -Sounds like you might Bob.- In a lumber shop a while back, I got to talking to a guy there who was dropping some off. Turns out he is sort of a roving lumberjack who carts his mill between Washington and SF. He said he could easily fill an order for some green Oregon White oak, (and that he knew of a few pretty big black locust -and maybe some port orford cedar trees he could get his hands on). I hesitated on the Oak because I have an area of bulwark just under the caprail that is in pretty bad shape compared to the surrounding wood. I got in passing from the previous owner that that area was a repair done with some Oregon White Oak. Made me nervous to use any quantity of the stufff. Granted it was pretty messy, so it was hard to judge the initial quality of the repair.
-As an aside, I was looking at WB #1 a few weeks back where they compared some species of White Oak, and the Oregon was more rot resistant than the Eastern in that test.
Anyway, Is this the white oak of most of the older west coast built boats? I'd like to hear from anybody who has any experience with the longevity of the Oregon stuff. Thanks, Chris

[ 09-20-2002, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Hazy Chris ]

[edsr]

Hazy Chris - I use Oregon Wite Oak for boat building with good success. It is strong, works well and has a pleasant smell when your cut burns a bit, sweet toasty odor.

I don't think you really need to worry about using it for boat building. Many of the winerys from Oregon and California are using it for their barrels. They have driven up the price.

edsr

[Hazy Chris]

Thanks edsr. I think I will try some and see how it goes.