Thwart, benches, and their supports

[Anastasia]

I've just dismantled the seats from the hull of my 17 ft lapstrate sloop.

The history of fixtures on this boat seems to have taken its toll on the thwarts, benches, risers and knees. Some supports seem quite ungracefully improvised with spacers to add extra height ,as well.

The screw holes appear somewhat haphazard and in some were stainless Phillips and others were bronze with square drive heads.

Dismantling the seats from the midship thwart which is attached to the daggerboard involved getting under the benches where there was little space to work and taking out screws from braces which connected the the benches and thwart together. The holes for the supports in the benches themselves show splintering edges.

I took photos and notes as I went and now believe reinstating grace to this part of the boat will pose special challenges to me.

I haven't yet found a good source that explains a designerly approach to repairing benches and their supports. Any suggestion out there on what I should do or sources to help me?

[Bob Smalser]

Dunno about repairing them...but any book on building them like the John Gardner series avail from WB magazine will show how they are spose to be done.

Take some pics for posting....sounds like some were added or repairs were made...but pics are needed for specific advice.

Generally, if the thwart riser or knee is nail sick from a poor fastening job, it can be removed, the holes/splintering repaired with epoxy...dyed epoxy if to be finished bright...and the fasteners properly sized, bored for and applied. Otherwise you make a new piece to an accepted design....and that goes for jerry-rigged spacers/supports, too.

Sometimes a piece comes loose because it wasn't fitted properly and cammed apart under load, so that needs to be checked and fixed before reinstallation.

[ 10-07-2003, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Anastasia]

Here are some pictures of my benches, ribs, risers, thwarts, and fastener damage. Unfortuately some of these pictures are sideways, sorry.

Benches and their posterior connectors (and guess who that is behind the sunglasses in the hull) ...

http://home.internetcds.com/~jamz/boat/bench1.jpg

http://home.internetcds.com/~jamz/boat/bench2.jpg

Rib damage from thwarty screws...
http://home.internetcds.com/~jamz/boat/rib.jpg

Risers/bench supports in search of sound fastening

http://home.internetcds.com/~jamz/boat/riser2.jpg

http://home.internetcds.com/~jamz/boat/riser3.jpg

Thwarts corners away!

http://home.internetcds.com/~jamz/boat/thwart2.jpg

http://home.internetcds.com/~jamz/boat/thwart3,jpg

Drunked screwholes?

http://home.internetcds.com/~jamz/boat/screwholes.jpg

And another mind travel ...

Is there any practicality in me walking out into our white oak woodland and looking for crotches to eventually shape into knees and/or bench supports? We have lots of surpressed 40 year old oaks that need to be thinned out. If there is some efficacy in this, would we attempt to carve the knees and bench supports green and then dry them in some special manner? We would need to be concerned with shrinking , I imagine. eally, maybe this is a project for a few years henceforth!

[Bob Smalser]

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2595357/35807004.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2595357/35807000.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2595357/35806991.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2595357/35806978.jpg

[Bob Smalser]

This one seems straight forward enuf.

The thwarts should sit on the risers and supports the builder intended....dump the additional spacers....clean the holes and any cracks....fill with epoxy per the West Marine booklet and refair them.....clamp the pieces in place and redrill with a tapered countersink bit matched to the screw size.

New holes properly spaced and repaired cracks will make it look professional. Study your books for details on fastener placement, but you should be able to tell which holes the builder originally used as opposed to the aftermarket ones that were incorrectly sized and split the wood.

You'll need a set of tapered countersink bits (ck Ebay) and probably a bit extension for your cordless drill to clear the gunwales adequately.

You can do it with jobber's bits, but investing in the tapered drills is worth it as they do a better job. Do some practice pieces first on scrap to get the hang of what correct sizing is...the fastener should drive with some resistance (Yankee or hand Screwdriver or Brace and Bit...use no power drivers to seat those screws...you can run them in close with a drill, but you'll strip your new threads seating them with one, ruining the hole) when lubed with wax but not so much resistance that you twist them off.

Drill your holes, mount your parts, and disassemble again before finishing so preservative and paint get down into those new holes.

[ 10-15-2003, 05:36 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Anastasia]

Thanks for the help again, Bob! I've now got Simmons Repair book and the West System booklet as well.

Are benches and thwarts usually braced together undereneath as they are shown in the picture of them leaning against the stern?It seems that these braces were added later, maybe to prevent from the possibility of pinching the back of someone's thighs. These braces were very difficult to get out and I would prefer to omit them.

Also while taking the thwarts and benches out of the boat, I was looking for what the manufacturer intended, but it wasn't clear where the old screwholes where. The fasteners for the risers were generally place beneath the bench knees. I guess I'll try to make them more evenly space when I redrill.

Thanks.

[Bob Smalser]

A copy of John Gardener's "Building Classic Small Craft Vol I" from WB has dozens of examples of thwart and seat construction, including your style. Also a free Jamestown Distributors catalog is an excellent reference for sizing fasteners. If you have to replace any, use only 316 SS or silicon bronze.

Those underseat cleats, while not looking original, were put there for a reason. If the seat board joint falls on a support like plywood on a house joist, it is possible to widen that support to better support the seat joints, if they were added because the seat was working loose.

[ 10-15-2003, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]