View Full Version : Go ahead, laugh...
06-07-2003, 03:51 PM
Well, my buddy Pato and I tried to push Schnecke into the water today. We used chains, cables and come-alongs to move her about six feet, and then...nothing. Another couple of feet and she'll slide right in, but there's something holding her up. We'll go back tomorrow, with more gear and see what we can do.
There's no road access to this wreck, so there's no way to get heavy equipment in. We can't bring anything to the site that won't fit in my Diablo skiff.
I took some pictures for your entertainment.
Laugh if you like...I still think it's a cool project!
[ 06-07-2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Taylor ]
06-07-2003, 03:58 PM
Maybe you could kedge it out. Put out a hefty anchor, weight etc. with a good sized single block on it,bring a line from the boat, through the block at the kedge and back to shore. Apply all the power you can, maybe through a double block etc. Worth a try... Tie off to a tree etc??
Not laughing here, I've been in worse situations.
06-07-2003, 05:24 PM
When we were kids, (last century) we used an up-side-down periscope for underwater viewing. It was a window in the bottom of waterproof box that tapered up to a viewing port.
You could probably jury rig something similar to get an idea of how big the problem is before you apply brute force and damage something or someone.
Good luck, keep us posted, sounds like a real adventure.
06-07-2003, 05:46 PM
Methinks some kind fella on the water with another
hefty boat pulling while you shove might help :eek: advise taking the strain with the tow gently however.
06-07-2003, 05:49 PM
Ho ho ho ha ha ha hee hee heee.
Um, it moved then came up against something that is keeping if from moving farther you say. A stump i the water? Yer gonna have to get wet. A bigger wrench aint always the answer.
06-07-2003, 06:29 PM
"I think we're gonna need a bigger winch."
I know that piece of shoreline. Get wet. Check to see if a sunken log (escapee from the log booms that are/were driven down the river) has jammed into the rudder or prop aperture. If not jammed, but against a rock or some other object, let me know and I'll tell you of a neat trick to temporarily raise the stern a few inches to clear the obstruction.
06-07-2003, 07:21 PM
Michael, I've mucked around in the water a bit already. The prop is clear (and the rudder has been unshipped and safely stowed) but there's a big square timber down in the muck that might be hooked on the after edge of the keel.
Raising the stern temporarily might help.
So, what's this trick?
06-07-2003, 09:33 PM
This is just an idea. How about some heavy PVC pipe as a roller under the boat, sort of like the ancients used to move heavy rocks?
06-07-2003, 09:39 PM
I like a block and tackle, multi-part, rigged to a kedge, idea. If you have one handy, that is.
I want to know Michael's trick also.
Let's hope the crick don't rise in the night. smile.gif
06-07-2003, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Bruce Taylor:
...Raising the stern temporarily might help.
So, what's this trick?Can you spell D-Y-N-A-M-I-T-E? That ought to raise the stern a foot (30 CM for you heathens ;) ) without too much trouble.
Peter Malcolm Jardine
06-07-2003, 11:18 PM
Putting a round timber underneath the boat amidships and pulling it aft with a cable around the stern might get you off the bottom enough. I would suggest something at least the width of the boat and about 18" plus in diameter... Cedar log from nearby maybe?
Mr. Know It All
06-07-2003, 11:24 PM
Looks to me like you need about a dozen guys with strong backs and weak minds and lots of beer. Bada boom bada bing you're in the water. :D
How the hell did that boat get in the woods in the first place? :confused:
[ 06-08-2003, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]
06-07-2003, 11:32 PM
06-07-2003, 11:35 PM
Schnecke Translation? Snail? I bet I'm remembering that from an earlier thread? smile.gif
A boat's gotta be what a boat's gotta be.
[ 06-08-2003, 12:45 AM: Message edited by: ishmael ]
2 truck inner tubes
two sheets construction grade ¾” plywood, cut in half (4’ x 4’)
3” (or so) heavy steel pipe, about 5 - 6 ft. long (two pipes are even better)
several “air pigs” (portable air reservoirs used by mechanics to inflate tires on roadside repairs)
Clear debris around the stern of the boat.
Make a sandwich of two pieces of ply with an inner tube as the “filling” - make sure the tube lies flat and that the valve is accessible. Cut a hole in the top ply to access the valve if necessary.
Sink the inner tube sandwiches close by and on either side of the stern – use rocks to hold the ply down.
Slide the pipe under the keel and align it so that it rests on the centre of each of the ply sandwiches. Chock the pipe on both sides of both ends with wood wedges fitted with stout pull-away cords.
Use the air pigs to inflate the inner tubes, being careful to inflate both sides equally.
Application of about 2000 lbs of lifting force under the keel, which is resting on a rolling object(s).
The devices will be somewhat unstable when lifting, and can unpredictably launch their parts with some violence. A clip-on valve on a long hose to the air pigs which are fitted with controller valves so the operator can inflate the inner tubes from a safe bit away is a very good idea!
06-08-2003, 12:58 AM
If the soil around the boat is soft enough, could you not just dig a trench under and around her till she floats off? Less chance of damaging the craft anyway.
Not presuming to speak for Bruce, but I am pretty familiar with where the boat is - I used to live on that very property. It is Pre-Cambrian granite, the Canadian Shield. Not much good digging there without an excavator and a truckload of dynamite.
06-08-2003, 06:17 AM
You might also add a couple more innertubes port and starboard, in the water attached to a nylon sling just forward of the keel. The extra lift in that area may help raise the bow over the obstruction.
06-08-2003, 07:28 AM
Digging is definitely out of the question, for the reasons mmd has given.
Kevin, somewhere I have pics of Grenadian boatmen launching a huge schooner in that fashion. We'll do it that way, if we have to.
Ed, you do like things that go "boom," don't you? smile.gif
PMJ, we might try something like that...jack up the bow, roll a log or two under the keel and let her down again.
I like that inner-tube trick...good to have it in reserve if we can't fumble her out with cables. Today, if I can get away for a while (I'm alone with the kids this week...SWMBO's up in James Bay) we're going to see what we can do with some truck jacks and a third come-along.
I seem to remember that Archimedes once launched a ship by himself, saying "Give me a long enough lever, and a place to stand, and I'll move the world!" Or something like that.
There are a couple of things I would suggest, if you have not already done them.
First, find out what is holding her. If it is a tree stump, you will likely hole her and once she is free, you'll be able to get some "update" shots as she sinks.
Second, make certain that she is pumped dry and that ALL non-essential weight is removed.
Third, after first two are completed, I go along with the kedging idea and you should if possible, be on board her to see/hear if something is going wrong.
Good luck, it does look like a fun project.
06-08-2003, 08:31 AM
By all means, climb under there and see if you've got a deadhead holding you up. Not likely to puncture that steel hull, but all the tugging and prying in the world won't move it past a serious old stump.
One other thought re the block and tackle. I was pondering how to get enough giddyup on the bitter end as you haven't a land vehicle for a tug. How 'bout a come along anchored to a tree?
06-08-2003, 10:16 AM
Can you get a grip on the offending big square timber that seems to be holding thngs up ? You might have a better chance of pulling it off to port and out of the way with lots of tackle and a good place to anchor on shore. We once moved a very heavy load with a truck jack acting perpendicular to a taut logging chain.
06-08-2003, 11:58 AM
Yes Bruce, I think some sort of "camel" is required, like MMD suggested. (There's a description of them in use in Forester's "Commodore Hornblower" -- when he is in the Baltic trying to move Bomb Ketches into shallow water.)
You might want to find someone with a drysuit and tanks to work in the water for you.
Two plastic barrels conected with a rope sling, underwater, then inflated, might do.
Is there a work-barge (yard-scow) anywhere along that stretch of river? They have lots of floatation. You might be able to bring it into the stern, flood it to nearly sinking, lash it firmly to your boat, then pump the water out. You'd get quite a hoist that way, assuming you can get lines under your boat, lashed with very little play.
I assume you've got all the stuff out of the stern.
Peter Malcolm Jardine
06-08-2003, 11:29 PM
If you opt for the dynamite, can you let me know when so I can come and watch? :D :D
BTW, it is a cool boat
06-09-2003, 12:39 AM
Lacking dynamite you can use Black Powder (Ed Might help you here)mixed into vaseline and packed into some 4 inch diameter PVC pipe and put lengthwise under the boat. Ignite one end...it ain't as fast as dynamite....but izz gonna make big boom.... ;)
06-09-2003, 08:03 AM
ROTFLMHO&KTC! If you like Chuck's idea, here's another. Rather than fill the truck inner tubes with air, fill them with a nice mix of O2 and C2H2 and light that off. :eek:
06-09-2003, 09:36 AM
Some ideas. Maybe not good ones, but they may inspire better ideas.
Brute force method: You drug it 6 feet closer to the water with little problem. Drag it back out of the water, cull some logs from the surrounding woods, lay them down to build your very own slipway, then drag it all the way into the water.
Eagle Scout method: find a pair of large strong logs, lash them together into a bipod. Set them up over the stern and support them upright with ropes or poles. Rig block and tackle over your new gantry crane and lift the stern clear of whatever obstruction is there. Slide slipway timbers under the dangling boat. (I successfully pulled an engine from a Jeep in the woods this way, minus the slipway of course.)
Easter Island Statues Honoring Devo method: Use levers and various size bits of wood. Lever on one side of the boat and wedge small wood in the little space made. Lever opposite side and place small wood under. Lever alternate sides, each time adding small wood or removing small pile in favor of larger wood. Be sure to place wood such that you don’t chock the boat from being able to roll when levered from the opposite side. You gain only a little bit each time, but those bits add up and you should be able to lift the entire boat high-n-dry with this method and a little patience. This is how those big statues were raised into place.
Cool boat. I see a great story in the making.
There is a method of portaging large boats over a hump called grasshoppering. I don't know if it would work with a boat that is not vertical.
You would need to pull the boat back the six feet you have already moved it.
Then attach stout timbers to the front on each side angling down towards the direction you want to go. They have to be firmly planted on the bottom.
Then as you pull the boat forward the six feet again the timbers will cause the front to lift.
The problem is that if it does not provide enough extra distance the boat will come down again onto the offending snag and you may be no better off.
06-09-2003, 12:02 PM
Personally, I would bring the biggest anchor I could carry in there, chain, enough 1" line to bridle the whole boat, and a great honking come-along. Drop the anchor, attach the chain to the bridle and comealong and start ratcheting.
If the bottom is too muddy for an anchor, but is a bit shallow, maybe you could bring in a small piling to use as a leverage point? Drive it in 20 feet behind the boat (sure, it will take an hour with a sledge hammer, but hey, we all need to lose weight right?) then run a line on an angle back to shore to a tree or some such and use that great comealong again.
You could also get a whole lotta line and lead it all the way back to the opposite shore and use a tree there. smile.gif
06-09-2003, 12:08 PM
Ed, I'll try that method, but only if you test it out on Phoenix first. smile.gif
There are some great suggestions, here. We won't be able to try any of them until tomorrow, at the earliest.
In the meantime, I hope Hydro Quebec doesn't pull the plug on our water. :eek:
06-09-2003, 12:20 PM
"There's no road access to this wreck, so there's no way to get heavy equipment in. We can't bring anything to the site that won't fit in my Diablo skiff."
Find someone who has a Jeep.
Garrett, getting a jeep to where that boat is would take the same equipment and effort used to get the boat in the water. Bottom of a 300-ft deep gorge in hard granite, no soil to speak of, huge boulders, edge of a lake formed by a dam downstream. The boat ended up where it is because the fellow who owned it owned a house at the top of the cliff and had a walking trail - complete with several flights of stairs - down to the water's edge. To haul a boat out there was close to lunacy, as Bruce is finding out.
Bruce, is there still a little stone-and-timber wharf and floating dock on blue barrels just upstream from where the boat is lying, inside the little cove? When I lived there I designed a floating dock for the homeowners association on top of the hill. It was designed so that instead of towing it a mile or so upriver where it could be landed and stored, as it froze in in the winter the pressure of the ice on the barrels would force it up on top of the ice so it could be used as a seat for putting on your skates. Worked pretty good the first year, then I left for contracts elsewhere. Most of the homeowners have moved on, too, so I lost contact with folks in the area.
06-09-2003, 01:56 PM
Michael, I briefly considered taking a backhoe up the tracks...it would be a merry race, with the steam train on our tail!
I'll look for that wharf & dock, Michael. Sounds ingenious. As an experiment, I left my dock in last year...ice tore the hinge bolts out, of course. I wanted a bigger one anyway...it would be nice to have one that pops up out of the ice, instead of being ground to sawdust by the grumblers. I hate wading in to pull the dock out...in, ummm, November. redface.gif Chilly.
06-09-2003, 02:25 PM
Sloshing in water, black flies and mosquitoes and a few tons of dead weight, sounds like fun!
My kids are going on the steam train as a school outing on Friday...would you mind using the back hoe on Saturday, please! :eek:
Keep the faith! (it moves mountains)
06-09-2003, 02:55 PM
In the meantime, I hope Hydro Quebec doesn't pull the plug on our water Would it be posible to get some cooperation from them, either to raise the water enough to float, or lower it enough to clear the obstructions ?
Alan D. Hyde
06-09-2003, 03:30 PM
1. Make a stout tripod out of three stout ~twenty-foot logs (though if you're short on manpower, and depending on water depth, maybe 12 or more foot would do it; I can't really tell from here). Wrap heavy chain around them about a foot from their ends, and erect them in the water with feet well spread. The nearest side to the boat of the equilateral triangle formed by their feet should be perpendicular to the boat's keel.
2. Hang a chain from the tripod with a ten-ton winch on it.
3. The center of your tripod should be about 12 feet out in the water from the boat.
4. Strap firmly around the boat with heavy nylon webbing, of the type used on travel-lifts; attach your winch to this.
5. As you lift with the winch (from a safe distance :D ), the boat will also swing outward from the shore.
That's what I'd do, Bruce. Whatever YOU do, good luck, and be careful.
[ 06-09-2003, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]
06-11-2003, 02:40 PM
He he. I loved "Fitzcarraldo," and the documentary about the making of it, "Burden of Dreams." As it happens, we do have a paddle-wheeler on the river...just a few hundred yards upstream from our wreck.
We finally got back to the site for an hour this afternoon. This time, we brought a hefty chain winch and that made a big difference. We yanked the Bad Log out of the way, and then moved the boat another couple of feet toward freedom. Unfortunately, the bow is now even with the trees to which we've been attaching our chains. We're going to have to rig up an "extender," or "push-pole"....basically, a length of I beam with a notch for the stem cut into it. Or else we could try the "truck jack on a taut logging chain," as described by Paul Scheuer.
Kedging is still a possibility, but I don't expect we'll get much purchase with the little ten-pound anchor that came with the boat. Maybe I can borrow a decent hook from the Wakefield Marina.
An encouraging hour's work, anyway.
Michael, I motored into the cove, & saw a long wharf, with a channel and boat house -- but that place had no dock. At another lot, I saw a good sized raft on blue barrels -- if that's your old dock I'm afraid it's been maintained with the same sort of TLC that's been lavished on Schnecke.
I suspect that the derelict dock on blue barrels is the one - the homeowners' association was generous when it came time to throw money in the pot to get stuff, but loath to work at maintaining it once acquired. Oh, well, I'm sure it did yeoman service for most of the past 14 years. And I still have the design drawings.... ;)
06-11-2003, 09:54 PM
How about rigging a heavy kedge anchor and leading it with a bridal to the bow ? Then setting the mast and leading the halliard back to a tree most nearly inline with the boat's axis ? The stayed mast is a huge lever you're not makeing use of .
[ 06-11-2003, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]
06-11-2003, 10:25 PM
Bring a BIG pump down next time, just in case you do get her into the water! Hand operated, you'll run down a battery pretty quick I suspect.
06-12-2003, 04:42 AM
Question. will she float clear of her hatches on her side? (refer article in current WB) She may slide more easily that way on the mud.
While youre doing all this, keep an eye on yourselves and do frequent safety checks. It looks like a situation that could get dangerous fast! You dont want anyone pinned in or out of the water or speared by flying timbers. Keep in mind a group of blokes in this situation can sometimes be driven more by testosterone than sense.
06-12-2003, 08:24 AM
MKIA, Hurricane Hugo moved a few shrimp boats from water to land smile.gif
06-12-2003, 03:45 PM
Do you know anyone with one of these?
06-12-2003, 03:51 PM
There is another way
Make an A-frame out of strong timber or strong pipes (how heavy is the boat?), then get a chainblock (I am not sure of your american terminology)angle put one leg of the a-frame either side of the boat and angle the a-frame forward in the direction you would like to move.
get one sling to a point which is forward where you where you expect the centre of gravity to be, but it is important that the chain block pulls vertical and the legs of the a-frame are slightly to the rear and the a-frame leans forward.
Then rigg a "backstay" from a second sling attached to the rear of the boat to hold the a-frame slightly forward.
If you now begin to lift you also create a forward pulling force (by the angled a-frame and the backstay)
If you lift high engough to clear the obstacle, the a-frame will tilt forward taking the boat along until it has lowered the boat to the ground level. To continue, you might have to slacken off the backstay. Or you move the a-frame forward again another short distance and repeat. This will work!! I have moved things by myself during a lunch hour to win a bet, using just this method.
I hope I could explain properly.
Regards from Africa Ongolo
06-13-2003, 09:35 AM
Well! Hello down there in Africa! smile.gif
The only thing I'd add is to make sure that you don't set her down on the obstacle - especially if it's something pointy.
You're liable to get yourself an unwanted through-hull. :eek:
06-13-2003, 09:39 AM
Great suggestion, Ongolo. We'll give the steel bar a try tomorrow, and if that doesn't do the trick I'll start looking for some strong poles.
06-13-2003, 02:33 PM
Don't forget the "Big Pump" Phil recommended :D :D :D . If you do manage to get it back into the water, I'm sure it wasn't beached because it was in perfect shape :rolleyes:
and if that doesn't do the trick I'll start looking for some strong poles Yep...a few dozen strong Poles (or Hungarians)will do the trick. :D
06-13-2003, 03:44 PM
Russians are supposed to be good at that sort of thing:
Volga Boat Song
Yo heave ho! Yo heave ho!
Once more, once more, Yo heave ho!
Pull the barge 'gainst the river's tide,
Volga River stretching far and wide.
Ai da da, ai da, ai da da, ai da,
Pull the barge 'gainst the river's tide,
Yo heave ho! Yo heave ho!
Yo heave ho! Yo heave ho!
As the barges float along,
To the sun we sing our song...
Yo heave ho! Yo heave ho!
Volga, Volga our pride,
Mighty stream so deep and wide...
06-14-2003, 08:16 AM
This has been a fascinating discussion, if for no other reason than the study in male psychology. Now before anyone gets their back up, remember that I, too, am male. AND, I have two boys, who are definetly male. But I digress.
Here is my theory: men love nothing better than a good problem they can throw ideas at. ESPECIALLY when it is someone else's problem. What fun!
Bruce, you aren't seriously going to put that boat in the water, are you? And take away all our fun?! Please, please keep it high and dry, moving it just enough to keep our appetites wet. DO NOT, under any circumstances, launch her.
Until the next conundrum shows up.....
Keep the bottom wet and the top dry...
06-14-2003, 04:27 PM
Well, with the help of the big steel bar, we moved her another five feet or so. The stern is in the water, but it's hard to tell how far we are from floating her (or sinking her, as the case may be).
Tomorrow, we'll bring a modified wooden 8" X 8" to the site and repeat the procedure.
My Diablo has been a real truck.
Here's to Phil Bolger!
06-14-2003, 04:53 PM
...thinking that maybe because it's been sitting at an angle like that for so long, it just might float that way....like when your mother tells you not to make that face because you might stay that way forever...
[ 06-14-2003, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: Rich VanValkenburg ]
06-15-2003, 01:03 PM
A discouraging morning. We pushed the bow out prematurely, hoping to shove her in sideways. Now the deck is awash on the starboard side. :rolleyes:
Next time, we'll bring a big pump and try our hand at some kedging.
Mr. Know It All
06-15-2003, 01:56 PM
Hang in there Bruce. We're all mentally pulling (and pushing) for you. smile.gif
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio
06-15-2003, 08:10 PM
Any idea what's holding her up underwater ?
06-15-2003, 10:53 PM
As a converted lifeboat, she probably has plenty of bouyancy, and bugger all ballast. Now that you have her sideways maybe take the kedge to the masthead, and pull her over some more till she floats out on her beam ends.
06-16-2003, 12:25 AM
If you go down in the woods today your'e sure of a big surprise,
If you go down in the woods today you better go in disguise,
For there you'll find a bl***y great boat
with nary enough water to float,
Todays the day that Bruce is having his 'picnic'!
If you go down in the woods today youd better bring a winch.
If you go down in the woods today it surely is a cinch
You'll be up to your neck in brush and mud,
Youll strain and grunt and think it a dud,
For today's the day that Bruce is running a 'picnic'.
If you go down in the woods today you'd better wear a brace.
If you go down in the woods today prepare to stand the pace
Of chop and dig and push and shove
And imprecations to him above,
Moving this *^#@!*!* is going to be no picnic!
If you go down in the woods today the 'skeeters will suck your blood!
If you go down in the woods today you'll be praying for a flood.
Twelve empty slabs under the keel
Should float her out - or make you feel
You dont give a d**m at Bruce Taylors **%$#@*@( picnic!!
:D :D :D
06-16-2003, 06:48 AM
06-16-2003, 07:15 AM
That's uncanny, Skuthorp...it's like you were there watching us the whole time! You've captured the scene perfectly. Folks, that's exactly what it's like. Pity me, piiiiiittyy meeeeee... :D
Paul, there's not much holding her up underwater, besides her own steel keel in the muck. We're just not deep enough yet to get her off her side.
Phil, she's got about 1200 lbs of concrete/rebar internal ballast, and that keel & centreboard assembly (which we probably should have removed at the outset) weighs 940 lbs. That said, we'll try what you suggest, after we pump her out. The problem now is that our anchor is a paltry thing & I really don't expect it to hold fast in the fine sand and leaf-muck of the river bottom. We haven't had any luck borrowing a bigger one. So, we'll probably have to add extensions to our twelve-foot pole and push her out from shore.
[ 06-16-2003, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: Bruce Taylor ]
06-16-2003, 08:20 AM
Oh, This IS fun, isn't it?
06-16-2003, 08:29 AM
Our prayers and thoughts are with you too. smile.gif
[ 06-16-2003, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: R.I.Singer30 ]
06-16-2003, 08:34 AM
1) Great project. good 4 u.
2) Don't instantly adopt a similary easy plan.
3) Test the plans on paper. Line them up. What assumptions are they built on?
Do you really understand why your plan didn't work? For example: What made you conclude that it was a matter of just pushing her back in the water? What was the nature and extent of the survey that was completed for the launching site?
You have received number of "sound" options. Whether any actualys work out will depend upon the the validity of their respective assuumptions and your ability to successfully implement.
So, rather than striking out to implement another infeasable though intuitive plan, I would offer that you consider take all these great solutions and break them down. Identify the data gaps for each. This may help you narrow down the choices and save some $ in the log run. good luck I hope to see more pictures and hearing about what you have learned soon.
06-16-2003, 10:26 AM
Looks like you're close. Can you keep the water out at this point ?
06-16-2003, 07:05 PM
Now for a completely new idea - If she's really just stuck in the mud, you might be able to clear the area under the keel with a water jet from a good pump or pressure washer. (easy for me to say).
Bruce, pray for rain. The water will rise, she will float free. After 40 days and nights she will run aground on Mt Arrarat. Then pray for more rain.
06-17-2003, 12:03 PM
Hey Bruce, when does blackfly season come around in Wakefield? That should inspire you to work fast...... *chuckle*
06-18-2003, 06:57 AM
Ah, to hell with it. :D
We're throwing in the towel.
Yesterday, after three hours mucking around with anchors and pushpoles and a huge gas-powered pump...we came to our senses. This boat just isn't worth the effort.
Even before I knew how hard aground she was, I had reservations about taking this project on. Now, it's clear that the cost of relaunching this "cheap" boat then lifting her onto a cradle could be put to better use. (Like physiotherapy, LOL).
We should be able to reclaim our small deposit from the seller. Maybe I'll offer him something for all the nice bronze fittings, those new sails, the instruments, etc.
Live and learn. smile.gif
06-18-2003, 08:41 AM
Wait a minute, I missed something here. You paid somebody for this boat!?
Totally lame! Get out there and have another go. Heck, she's half in the water. You just can't leave her there anyway. I don't care what the boat is worth, you need to get that thing floating!
Ok, enough said.
Too bad. At least with a wooden boat you'd be able to have a bonfire. :D
06-18-2003, 10:50 AM
You paid somebody for this boat!? Just a $100 deposit. The deal was, if we got her floating we'd buy her for $500. The boat, despite appearances, is fairly sound, and all the little bits n' pieces -- sails, seat cushions, bilge pump, inclinometer, depth sounder...you name it -- have been preserved.
Totally lame! Get out there and have another go.Ho ho! She's all yours, Noah. smile.gif
If my time were my own, I might keep at it. However, I'm under a fair bit of pressure (and very close scrutiny) from a certain fine woman who, as the saying goes, must be obeyed.
Everytime I go out to wrestle with that wreck I have to hire somebody to babysit my kids for a couple of hours. Same goes for my partner. We can rent equipment by the day, but neither one of us can spend an entire day at the site. We were going through a lot of loose change...buying chains, hiring teenagers, breaking come-alongs, filling my skiff with gas, and renting heavy winches and pumps....all this before we'd even got to the point of paying somebody to lift her onto a flatbed and drag her off to a cradle.
I might take more trouble for a boat I really loved, but--while I think this one has a funky sort of charm--she's really an old mutt...half lifeboat, half pleasure yacht, and not really adapted to this part of the world (how she got into the Gatineau in the first place is a mystery).
Yeah, there's some sour grapes there...but also relief. :D
We're not going to leave her in the water. It should be pretty easy to drag her ashore again.
"she's really an old mutt..."
Bruce, you are being way too generous. She is a mongrel dog. When Schneckke was in prime form back in the late 80's she was slow (like about 4-1/2 knots), couldn't point above about 50 degrees, rolled like a drunken sailor, and was, IMHO, butt-ugly. I sailed on her once when she was in Kingston, and once I was given charge of her when Greg went to Africa, I left her in her cradle on the hard. I appreciate the attraction of a boat to be had for a song, but Schnekke's tune was pretty off-key. I think that you have made a good decision. She would make a better motorboat than sailboat.
How she got to the Gatineau is this: she was originally a lifeboat on a Lakes grain carrier in the late 'sixties (I believe). The ship was paid out of service and all her outfit was auctioned off, and somebody in the Kingston area bought the lifeboat. He remodelled it into a sailboat and farted around the Thousand Islands in the Kingston area for ten years or so. He sold it to a fellow who kept it for a year or two, and then sold it to Greg Woodsworth. Greg went to Africa with CIDA for a few years and left the boat in Kingston (this is where I come in - I rented Greg's house above where Schnekke currently resides while he was overseas). When he returned, he had the boat trucked to the Gatineau and moored it in the cove where you found it. According to my friends from the neighbourhood, Greg used it the first summer it was there (1991?) and a few times the next year, but was basically disappointed with it's sluggishness, especially in light of the current in the river. In it's third season on the Gatineau, Greg just didn't bother to put it in the water. After that, I lost track as my friend moved out of the neighbourhood and back into Ottawa. Presumably it has languished just where you found it ever since.
Like an old, neglected dog, sometimes it is more humane to put them out of their misery than to spend large amounts of time and money on what is basically an aged, infirm cur that will probably bite you in spite of your kindness.
Alan D. Hyde
06-18-2003, 01:50 PM
Bruce, with a tripod (see above) and a come-along, reinforced by an adequate supply of friends, beer and food, you could move that boat any damn where you wanted to in a morning.
NOW, if she's not worth moving, that's your call.
BUT, if I'd come as far as you have, I'd get her afloat and sell her (cash!) for a quick profit "as is, where is." I can't believe you couldn't (at the least) double your money.
06-18-2003, 03:36 PM
Alan, your tripod is probably the most practical of our remaining options if we want to get that boat in. I have no doubt that it would work. If I were inclined to continue, that (or possibly Ongolo's bipod) would be the way to go.
However, I think this boat is just not worth the effort (see Michael's comments above). The spot is sufficiently inaccessible to make orderly work very difficult, but not so remote that we can leave our tools on site when we're not there. We're not at liberty to cut timber on that shoreline, so we'd have to carry three stout logs (12-14' in length, I reckon) to the site, in my Diablo skiff (no road access, as I mentioned above). To rent a 3-ton chain winch costs $20 a day (Our 1.5 ton come-alongs kept failing under the load). Driving to Hull to pick a winch up takes most of a morning. I can rent a big pump locally, but that sucker costs me $50.00 a day!
Doubling our investment--assuming we could find someone who'd pay $1000 for that old has-been--would bring us $250 each -- minus rental and equipment costs, gas, a cooler of beer for the crew. I can think of at least a dozen ways to earn that kind of scratch without getting my feet wet.
And yet, I'd probably stick with it if Maggie were on side. But she's not. She doesn't want any part of this thing, and resents the time I've already spent on it.
So, that's that. :D
06-18-2003, 03:52 PM
i've got the best solution for this problem:
Alan D. Hyde
06-18-2003, 04:22 PM
Bruce, is there an anchor winch or windlass on the boat?
You could use that with a tripod.
A couple of deft old-timers of my grandfather's generation could probably startle us by the rapidity with which they could move it.
Moving very heavy objects with simple machines is becoming a lost art.
Watch some house-movers carefully if you ever have a chance. Maybe it's just me, but I find their skills fascinating.
Durwood Wing, of Auburn, Maine, was the father of one of my roommates in College. When short of beer money, Durwood would go into some bar near a railroad track, get into a discussion with a likely victim, and then bet that he could "move that damn car on the siding out there all by myself."
He could, too, via an old railroad trick, and he thus never lacked for beer...
[ 06-18-2003, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]
06-18-2003, 04:37 PM
I am truly sorry Bruce, this stream has been one of the best humoured and most entertaining of recent times. Fellow forumites should be funding the retrieval purely for the entertainment value!
Slow and pigheaded she may be but the old girl has given us a great deal of fun and it's a shame she wont end her days afloat somewhere.
06-18-2003, 04:47 PM
I'm also somewhat disheartened to hear of the demise of the project, I was really cheering for it's success. But, being married, I can understand when one has to abondone a project.
06-18-2003, 04:55 PM
Did the seller say how the boat got up on the shore in the first place?.....if you try again check for open drain plug/plugs buried in the bilge muck..was she full of rain water when you first saw her?...I would try the BIG inner tubes trick myself...you got to get her UP befoe she will go horizontal.... smile.gif ..
[ 06-18-2003, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: Norske3 ]
You mentioned earlier that the lake is formed by a dam. Any chance that they could let the lake level go up by a few inches to help you out? Possibly even let it go down some to get the boat squared away and then bring it back up.
[ 06-19-2003, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: Russ ]
06-19-2003, 07:09 AM
Note, for the How Not To File - Before embarking on any endeavor that has the potential of growing beyond the original scope, make certain that mama is totally on board. Even if you're right.
06-19-2003, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by Bruce Taylor:
We're not going to leave her in the water. It should be pretty easy to drag her ashore again.[/QB]It occurs to me that if it's that easy to drag her out of the water again, you should be able to relaunch her without huge difficulty. You know what you are in for this time and perhaps could arrange the launching so you avoid the snags. This is not to suggest you should go ahead with the project. More, I'm suggesting that you leave your final decision until it's on the bank. Your problem with this attempt may be easily avoided next time. Of course, you may just convince yourself that abandonning the old girl is the right way to go too.
who rescued a dink once - I wasn't allowed to keep that either.
Bruce I have been following this post but haven't posted, cause I had no good advice. I, too, am a sucker for loss causes. I would have like to have seen you get her afloat, but I understand about the domestict tranquillity thing.
06-19-2003, 09:28 AM
<We're throwing in the towel.>
Well, it was a dandy effort, Bruce. But I agree with Noah: rescuing the poor girl had nothing to do with her form or function; just that she was a damsel in distress. There's nothing wrong with doing battle with a stout windmill now and again. So well done. I'm sure after your kids are grown and out of the house, that boat will still be there waiting for another try.
06-19-2003, 10:34 AM
Thanks for letting me off the hook, guys. smile.gif I hate to betray my gender, but this project only made sense when it was going to be done cheaply and with small loss of time.
If Michael is right (and he's the only one I know who has actually sailed Schnecke) this isn't a damsel in distress...not even an old whore. It's a pig in a petticoat.
At times like this, a fellow has to ask himself: What would Cleek do? :D And the answer, I suspect, is that he'd take a quick glance at that sorry lifeboat-hybrid and walk away chuckling. It might seem criminally unthrifty to leave her to rust away in the woods, but it is probably even more wasteful to squander a lot of effort on a poorly conceived vessel. It's a bit like pulling a 1983 Dodge Omni out of the scrap heap and lovingly restoring it. So what if it's free, so what if the motor works...it's still an Omni!
Anyway, it looks like I can scavenge whatever I want from the boat for ~$200. I can have the petticoat, without having to babysit the pig! Sweeeeeet!
06-19-2003, 03:39 PM
Come on, Alan, what's the move-a-railcar-by-yourself trick? I'm thirsty and there is a freight yard a couple blocks away.
06-19-2003, 03:55 PM
There is a tool - It may be called a "car jack". A long handle, about 8 feet, and a small metal tooth that fits under a railroad car's wheel. The handle gives abour a 200 to 1 leverage, enough to move a car. (short distances).
Alan D. Hyde
06-19-2003, 03:59 PM
Paul's right, but Durwood could also cobble up a rig to move one using an old railroad tie (sleeper).
02-12-2004, 11:31 PM
I just met a guy named MacIver. I bet he could float this wench. :D
02-17-2004, 07:48 AM
Ed, a couple of weeks after we hauled her back into the woods she appeared in our local paper (The Low Down to Hull and Back News) over the caption: "Eyesore of the Week." The guy who was fixing to sell it to us now denies ownership. The guy who sold (or gave) the boat to him is lying doggo. And the municipality is trying to decide who to fine, and to what to fine him for.
Can I say, "I told you so!" now? In 1989 when the (former?) owner told me of his plan to bring it home to the Gatineau, I told him to either keep it in Kingston or sell it and buy a reasonable sail dinghy, 'cause if anything ever went wrong with it in Wakefield it would become an albatross in his life in short order. It seems that now Schneckede is just schtinkede. :rolleyes:
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