What wood should I use?

[ron ll]

Just need to replace some exterior bullnose trim around canvas cabin tops. Pieces are 2" (net) diameter half-round. I can easily shape them myself, but curious what stock would be most appropriate to start with these days. It will be painted and I'm in Seattle. Can decent lumberyard fir still be found these days and is it appropriate? Cedar seems too soft for that, right? Or should it be something more exotic?

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Personally, I would use a hardwood. For that application White oak would be good, so would mahogany.

[Bob Smalser]

Doug Fir is a bit splintery for moldings, Western Red Cedar tools nicely but will dent easily, and all durable hardwoods are relatively expensive here.

As you don't really need a lot of it, I'd spring for Khaya (African Mahogany) as a best value. It's less expensive than Honduras Mahogany, and although it can be more difficult to work, it's often harder and will wear well. Edensaw will have it among others.

But while you're looking you may find something else suitable for even less money, if you call around to companies who sell hardwood flooring stock. For example Brazilian Cherry flooring is becoming popular here and works well using power tools....but in any quantity beyond a few moldings is heavy and hard as flint. And flooring stock rarely comes in long lengths or thicker than 3/4" true, so ask before you drive anywhere to look at it.

[Scott Rosen]

I'd stay away from Oak, as it's hard to bend and doesn't take paint very well.

I like Mahogany per Bob's suggestion. If there's any chance of varnish, I'd go with teak.

[George Roberts]

Honduras Mahogany is only $8/bdft at most. Not much wood is needed. I suspect it is a reasonable choice.

[Brian Palmer]

Are woods from South America and Africa really more readily available and cheaper in Seattle than woods from another part of the U.S. (e.g., white oak), as Bob implies in his response? Are there no suitable local hardwoods for such small pieces?

If so, that is a wee bit disturbing.

Brian

[ron ll]

I have a mohagany plank that is 2"+ x 8 x 6' that I could use but I'm not sure which mohagany it is. It's hard and certainly not luan, but how can I identify it? Sort of seems a shame to rip it into sticks, but not sure what else I'm saving it for.

PS. No chance of varnish, this is Snoose. :D

[David G]

ron,

You don't need to identify it. Any of the mahoganies will serve your purpose well. If you've got that stock on hand, and don't mind using it up, and it'll be enough to do the job... well, then...

Is it done yet?

Why not :D


"I am not an adventurer by choice, but by fate" -- Vincent van Gogh

[ron ll]

Is it done yet?

Why not :D




Uuuhh, 'cause its snowing out? 'cause I'm in my nice warm office suppose to be doing meaningful architectural work rather than blathering about on a wooden boat forum? Okay, lame excuses. :D

[Bob Smalser]

I have a mohagany plank that is 2"+ x 8 x 6' that I could use but I'm not sure which mahogany it is. It's hard and certainly not luan, but how can I identify it?

Amazon locally carries Dr Bruce Hoadly's Identifying Wood, which has a small section with good photos on IDing the mahoganies. The standard reference texts on tropicals are expensive.

Or mail me a quarter-inch slice off the end and I'll try to ID it. But the only real concern is that it would be luan in disguise.




....Are there no suitable local hardwoods for such small pieces?



In a word, no. While I'm a big fan of using native and local, durable hardwoods simply don't grow here except as a few cultured ornamentals local arborists will rarely have in stock to sell.

Moreover, one can easily throw the baby out with the bathwater trying to do good.

....Black Locust was planted in quantity by farmers along the Columbia and Skagit in the last century....but if you find a local sawyer who has it, it is wise to add 300 miles of petroleum emissions to the atmosphere to obtain it? And as an invasive, non-native weed tree, should it's replanting be encouraged by providing a market beyond local firewood?

....Does shipping thousands of tons of tropicals by ship cause less pollution than shipping the same quantities of native hardwoods 3000 miles by truck from the East Coast? Which is more efficient?

....Up to 80% of the South American Hondo sold here is estimated to be logged illegally. And I cringe every time I consider the popularity of Okhome plywood, given the destructive logging practices in Cameroon and Gabon used to produce it, and the easy availability of plantation Doug Fir and Western Larch as substitutes. So I encourage local substitutes.....

....but only where they make the most sense.

[Jay Greer]

Hounduras is easily worked and also rot resistant. Be sure to cut a drip groove on the underside to prevent capilary action from putting moisture into the deck house sides.
Jay
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7ce26b3127ccec21b4e98f11100000010O00QYsmrNy5bsQ e3nwg/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
ttp://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7ce26b3127ccec21b21da30x%3D550/ry%3D400/

[Jay Greer]

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7ce26b3127ccec21b603e709000000010O00QYsmrNy5bsQ e3nwg/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7ce26b3127ccec21a5677508e00000010O00QYsmrNy5bsQ e3nwg/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[Brian Palmer]

Sorry for side tracking this thread, but

Bob Smalser asked:

"....Does shipping thousands of tons of tropicals by ship cause less pollution than shipping the same quantities of native hardwoods 3000 miles by truck from the East Coast? Which is more efficient?"

I actually have seen a peer reviewed article which compared the greenhouse gas emissions from trucks, rail, and ships per ton of freight transported per mile.

The lowest emissions were for rail, followed by ship, then trucks. So rail is actually the most environmentally efficient, but for a given distance, ships are cheaper. (Trucks and planes are the fastest, but the most expensive.)

It wouldn't make environmental sense to truck hardwood lumber across the country, but it may to do it by train, rather than shipping it from the tropics by boat.

Now back to the regular thread.

Brian

[ron ll]

Wow, Jay, beautiful stuff. Thanks for the reminder about the drip groove. I think the lack of that is why the originals failed. They failed from their bottom edges.

[Jay Greer]

Wow, Jay, beautiful stuff. Thanks for the reminder about the drip groove. I think the lack of that is why the originals failed. They failed from their bottom edges.
The drip groove is a simple thing to add. The long sides can be run on a table saw. Unfortunatly this simple trick is often overlooked. Almost always there is a price to pay, in the future if it is not added.
Jay

[Eric D]

Ron, not to hijack, but I want Jay to explain further, do you do that for all of your pieces? Looking at the above pictures you posted, (absolutely stunning by the way) do you add that drip line on the linear moldings that have the 3 nails? 2/3 the way down or in the middle? Thanks.

Ron, by the way, if it was painted, I personally would save that stick of mahogany for something bright finished. For what little (you said smallish area right?) I would sub out darn near any wood since it is painted.

[Jay Greer]

Ron, not to hijack, but I want Jay to explain further, do you do that for all of your pieces? Looking at the above pictures you posted, (absolutely stunning by the way) do you add that drip line on the linear moldings that have the 3 nails? 2/3 the way down or in the middle? Thanks.

Ron, by the way, if it was painted, I personally would save that stick of mahogany for something bright finished. For what little (you said smallish area right?) I would sub out darn near any wood since it is painted.
Yes, the groove runs the full length of the molding. That is all sides and connecting into the groove under the corners. It stops short on the after end a quarter inch shy of the hatchway.
Jay

[Yeadon]

One type of wood and a source to consider ... merante decking planks from Crosscut Hardwood down on First Avenue South here in Seattle. I bought several planks a while back. Nice clear stuff, all around 20 feet long. I was able to rip a set of gunnels out of them, as well as a handful of other little parts.

The merante isn't in the main warehouse, but outside the backdoor in the yard.

[Lew Barrett]

This is it! I cannot take another lick of advice from Jay. The work he turns out and the photos and environment they are taken in is unreal. How can we believe that which is unreal? :D

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7ce26b3127ccec21b4e98f11100000010O00QYsmrNy5bsQ e3nwg/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

This does not look remotely like my working environment!

[ron ll]

The merante isn't in the main warehouse, but outside the backdoor in the yard.

1-1/2" thick? Is it an appropriate wood for this? Easy to work? Cheap? :D

[ron ll]

I agree Lew. How can anyone without sawdust everywhere have any credibility?

[Yeadon]

1-1/2" thick? Is it an appropriate wood for this? Easy to work? Cheap? :D

Hmmm ... I bet it was 5/4" thick. It was easy to work, a moderately hard mahogany. Finished pretty nice. The same stuff they used to put in Chris Craft's, I've been told.

I think the real value of the meranti (sp?) planks were the lengths you could get them in. Probably a buck a linear foot ... around four inches wide.

I used the meranti on my peapod's rails ...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/230/505557881_a46564de39.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3095/2900481435_a61746df11.jpg

[ron ll]

Really sounds good, I'll have to double check to see if 5/4 would work. Unfortunately I have to match the shape of the existing. But thanks for the lead.

[Jay Greer]

Remember that what ever wood you choose should, if possible, be air dried. The reason for this is that when kiln dried stock is used for ripping long rails, it will inviarably warp out of shape as the rail is ripped. This is due to internal tensions set up in the stock during the kiln drying process. I do prefer honduras as it is a medium hard wood and easy on tools. The interlocking grain also discourages splitting if fastening holes are not dead nuts on. Of course the shaping is done prior to ripping the rail off of the mother plank. A half round cross section is not as appealing to the eye as one that is semi eliptical. This creates more interesting shape.
Jay

[floatingkiwi]

I get nearly all my wood by recycling wrecks or dismantling vessels obtained from people who can't and haven't kept them up for some time. Shame. But good for me. The only pollution I put out is blood and sweat and half the time I am not exactly sure what the timber is, I just know it is beautiful when I knock the surface off it and if it lasted this long with neglect, another term on my boat will be easy.
IN NZ I learned to cut waterquirks,(drip coves), with an handsaw when I was 7 or 8 and it is surprising to see the amount of houses here that lack them altogether. And head flashings, something necessary even under eaves are strangely non existent in rotting window frames I have stripped. A small piece of material or the right cut can go a long way in the longevity of structures.