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Fritz Koschmann
03-08-2009, 04:46 PM
Here in Alaska there are still some grids that allow you to do work below the waterline between tides. I think that a lot of places in the lower 48 have done away with the grids because of environmental concerns. Anyway I know most antifouling paint manufacturers recommend a longer drying time before launching than the time between high tides. Anyone have experience with bottom painting between tides? Do you recommend specific types of paint? Hints? Tips?

donald branscom
03-08-2009, 06:39 PM
I did it once and i will never do it again.

First you have to clean the surface.
slime,grass, barnicles. When you try to push on the bottom with a brush or scraper whatever you just slide in the mud. And if there is rocks they are slimey and slippery and you can twist an ankle ibruise a foot.

The enviromental problem is big.
First you need a whole day of very warm weather to let the bottom dry out.

You have to put plywood or something down to prevent getting paint in the water.
If you have to sand or scrape the wind can blow the loose stuff around.

You are along a shoreline, you will always get visitors to slow you down and critisize you.

Even if you put plywood down, the plywood can slide on the slimey surface and YOU can fall down in the mud if the plywood moves. the plywood wants to sink down in the mud.

You have to have a helper to keep you from trampsing thru the mud to get anything.


You just cannot do as good a job as on the hard and of coarse there is always the unexpected repair.

When the tide starts coming in there is a time when the boat CAN move around and that has to be planned for or someone could get hurt.

Just a hassle all the way around, even if you do not make any mistakes.

And during all this time the tide comes in and out.
You have to time that perfectly.
You may end up in the mud in the dark and so you will have to have lights. that will attract the attention of police who know very little about boats and you would have to explain it all. etc.,.

donald branscom
03-08-2009, 07:04 PM
One more thing...

Just have it hauled at the yard on Friday and plan it all for the weekend.

Put it back in the water on Monday.

But if there is any way to take it inland to a yard and do the work and bring it back that is best or the boat yard will really charge you for materials.

The fee to haul out is usually reasonable and they pressure wash it.
The yard has all the right stuff and takes care of the paint chips in a special filter on the ramp.

Have you ever tried to remove a barnicle?

Get a chisel and check it out bro.

It is a once or every two year deal. Ask liva aboards because they usualy know all the tricks and ins and outs.

Dont ask the wealthy yacht owners they just have it done and write a check.

But the yard workers (not the craftsman) have to be watched.

If they apply bottom paint for you because you are too lazy or busy make sure they do not clog up thre hulls with excessive layes of bottom paint.

scrape them with a knife etc.,.


Have all you materials ready a month before haul out.

Make sure the weather is good before you commit to the haulout facility.

Call the yard 15 minutes before you take your boat and MAKE SURE there are no boats in the way when you get there.

Make sure to ket the yard boss know where the lifting straps are to be positioned ESPECIALLY if you do not have a stock boat,or they can damage your boat.

Make sure you get the bottom paint shook on a machine the day before or you will lose time in the yard messing around with that.

Spend Friday night letting it dry out and Saturday spend tome preparing to paint bring friend s food and drinkes if they help you. Also If they help you with your haul out you are obligated to help them when it comes time. It is really worth while and you can develope friendships in the boat community.

Sorry about the typos.

Fritz Koschmann
03-08-2009, 07:22 PM
I wish there was a way to haul my boat which is a 40' X 20' catamaran. None of the travel lifts around are wide enough for it nor are there any trailers that can handle it. I have thought of various schemes to jack it up on the beach in order to get at the flat bottoms of the hulls and I still might do that. There are grids with no mud and that would still seem to be the best solution. It sounds fun doesn't it- crawling around on the beach scraping barnacles from a horizontal surface overhead?

bruce w
03-08-2009, 07:33 PM
we have done the bottom on a 70 footer between tides against a dock wall starting with her bows on, you do need the help of the gods ,a making tide and drying wind ,we need at least 3 better 4 tides ,first tide presure wash and get the boot line on and bottom paint cut in about a foot down on one side and as far round as you can on the wall side ,next ebb get the boards and paint sheets and we find a spray gun makes a better job and less mess ,and as it drys follow the tide down get as much of the bow ether side done as you can ,dont try to get right to the rudder if it isnt dry ,you will get plenty time when you turn her round on the next tide ,keep a good watch on the tides if your boat is big and heavy, dont draw her up too far ,the blunt end will take a while to ebb up and that is when you will get paint in the water being in a rush just wait and tidy up the boot and top side ,we painted boats for over 30 years on the beach .

2MeterTroll
03-08-2009, 07:44 PM
its not bad. I think i would go up round naknek or ugashik and do the cleaning on one of the hard sand bars. the tide is a long way away and it takes time to come in. the other advantage is that the air is dry and the wind is always blowing. when you scrape dont let the hull be dry before you get there. scraping wet is always best.

Vinny&Shawn
03-08-2009, 07:44 PM
Find a crib to haul out on,put fenders dock lines etc.. Make sure the boat is in the proper position and tie a halyard from the top of the mast to heel it slightly to your preferred side. You should inspect he area before hand and remove debris or have blocking ready.
After the tide begins to go out take care as the boat settles in. (have a plan to install your blocking if needed)
timing is important,don't rush.
Do half the bottom at a time in between tides, use a stout brush and diluted chlorine to wash the bottom, as it dries,or when it dries,have someone or yourself scrub the bottom with whatever it takes to get it done, wire brush,brush, hoe.
The bottom will dry quite fast and can be re coated with a number of standard bottom paints.
Alternatively,coat the whole bottom with chlorine, scrub it in good,let it stay on and kill the growth,remove what you can and let the tide wash it off, finish the clean up the next day, paint when you can.
This is a recommendation of sequence,depends on how long you can stay in the crib. You can work from the dingy tied stem and stern as the tide goes out. There are variations!
Ian McColgin,who posts frequently had some to say in another thread,seems to have plenty of experiance and could be of help to you.

bruce w
03-08-2009, 07:47 PM
we have done steel work boat cats ,fill some steel drums with water make sure the bungs are in tight, then set them up at the ebb on the beach and wedge them in place ,then put the cat on them on the next flood we put the drums on the edge , i have seen them on end, for smaller cats

Hwyl
03-08-2009, 07:55 PM
Done it plenty of times, pretty much like Vinny and Shawn says, but with more scraping and less chlorine. Paint may take two tides to dry hard, but it works for sure.

dhic001
03-09-2009, 04:05 AM
I've personally never antifouled between tides, but it can be done. My friend Alan used to antifoul Settler on the beach at Scotts Landing, where the Mahurangi Regatta prize giving is held. Unfortunately I don't have a photo of it, although I have seen photos of it being done. Basically it was done over two tides. Not long after the first high tide, she'd be put on the beach, and laid over on one side, and as the tide dropped that side would be cleaned off. By the time the tide was returning, antifoul would be going on, ready for floating off at high water. She'd then be turned, and set on the beach again to do the other side. Settler was 50 foot former passenger and cargo vessel, so was no tiddler to do:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3132/3140589270_c846162053.jpg

An idea of the amount of bottom to be done, can be given from the similar sized Romo:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3207/3140577992_5e95d24606.jpg

Of course Alan did have the advantage of having a hard beach to work on, not soft mud, and it was over 20 years ago, when people weren't so upity about people doing normal boating activities.

Daniel

downthecreek
03-09-2009, 04:56 AM
we have done the bottom on a 70 footer between tides against a dock wall starting with her bows on, you do need the help of the gods ,a making tide and drying wind ,

We used to do the 72 footer Hoshi regularly on one tide - usually in Le Palais on Belle Isle (north Biscay) which has a very big tidal range but is also a very stinky harbour. However, this was just a rough and ready job and didn't involve the fiddly work.

Waders on and over the side as soon as the water was shallow enough (9 foot draft) Scrub top down on the ebb, paint bottom up on the flood. With a whole crew involved it was quite doable.

Worst part was the "tunnel" between the keel and the wall. Turn of the bilge was too high to kneel and too low to stand, except bent half over. Also, in those days, anti-fouling paint was a lot nastier and more toxic than it is now. Tunnel duties were NOT fun.

Always had a good meal afterwards - Belle Isle had some great restaurants. The post anti-foul celebration almost made up for the suffering! :)

Hwyl
03-09-2009, 07:25 AM
Pleasant memories of Belle Isle.
I've never seen Hoshi, even though she used to be a Beaumaris boat.

downthecreek
03-09-2009, 08:47 AM
Very true!

I use a pair of cheap waders kept for the purpose - they cost 10 in Jacks in Colchester in 1984, so they have depreciated quite well....

Ah, Jacks! Now there was a treasure trove...... :)

downthecreek
03-09-2009, 08:49 AM
Pleasant memories of Belle Isle.
I've never seen Hoshi, even though she used to be a Beaumaris boat.

Yes, happy days. Didn't know the Hoshi had been a Beaumaris boat, though. When was that?

Hwyl
03-09-2009, 09:46 AM
The old guys I worked with would talk of her, that was 30 years ago and they were in their 60's. Seems as though she was a fixture, and RAYC had a big boat fleet. I'm guessing 40's or 50's. When did the ICC acquire her.

downthecreek
03-09-2009, 11:57 AM
The old guys I worked with would talk of her, that was 30 years ago and they were in their 60's. Seems as though she was a fixture, and RAYC had a big boat fleet. I'm guessing 40's or 50's. When did the ICC acquire her.

Can't remember exactly, but probably in the mid to late fifties (I first sailed in her in 1965 and the ICC was pretty well established by then)

Lovely boat.... :)

Rukk
03-09-2009, 02:26 PM
Lots and lots of bottoms done on the mudflats and beaches here. I've never actually done my boat any other way. Any old soft copper paint will dry and cure fine between tides, you can even put that stuff in the water while its still wet and it'll cure, albeit a slightly different colour! Interlux's XXX is my favourite for quality that will actually dry between tides, and it's not horribly expensive.

A few tips for making the job possible: If you have to work at night or in the cold/wet, a tiger torch for drying her out before painting is indispensible. DISCLAIMER: Don't set the boat on fire, although it is surprisingly hard to do so.

Tarps go down way faster than plywood and are easy to fold in on themselfs when your done scraping/painting for easy transport and disposal.

You can make the Right(TM) tool for the scraping job by lashing a wide metal scraper to a shovel handle. Then your back doesn't die too badly under the turn of the bilge.

Most importantly, lots of friends and lots of rum. Good luck and have fun!

James

Hwyl
03-09-2009, 05:33 PM
The old guys I worked with would talk of her, that was 30 years ago and they were in their 60's. Seems as though she was a fixture, and RAYC had a big boat fleet. I'm guessing 40's or 50's. When did the ICC acquire her.


Can't remember exactly, but probably in the mid to late fifties (I first sailed in her in 1965 and the ICC was pretty well established by then)

Lovely boat.... :)

I think that when she was sold South, it was to the ICC.

Is she still around, Google only found oil paintings.

downthecreek
03-10-2009, 03:41 AM
I think that when she was sold South, it was to the ICC.

Is she still around, Google only found oil paintings.

I think so. She is in French hands now (which, in general, are good hands for a fine old boat to be) Last I heard she had suffered some serious damage, but was being repaired and restored, I think in Brest, so I hope she is back sailing again now.

Spada
09-28-2009, 07:41 AM
I think that when she was sold South, it was to the ICC.

Is she still around, Google only found oil paintings.


Here she is.... (Hoshi)


http://forum.aceboard.net/forum2.php?rub=553&cat=39644&login=5500

Robert L.
09-29-2009, 03:32 PM
Donald Branscom post #2

When the tide starts coming in there is a time when the boat CAN move around and that has to be planned for or someone could get hurt.

Been there done that three or four times. Even with planning and care things happen fast and irreversibly. Fortunately I wasn't there the day the boat killed a kid.

Hwyl
09-29-2009, 05:34 PM
Here she is.... (Hoshi)


http://forum.aceboard.net/forum2.php?rub=553&cat=39644&login=5500

Thank you, merci