bike...not boat...!!!!!

[Bernadette]

i didnt want to put this topic in the bilge as i figured it may get lost and i didnt feel inclined to go to a motorbike forum either...so im looking for advice on the following from all my trusted companions here on the wooden boat forum!!!!!

im in the process of buying a trail/on off motorbike. ive got my eye on a suzuki drz400e or the 250cc version. ive ridden bikes before for commuting (a yamaha 750 virago) but not off road bikes. ive also had an accident before which has resulted in surgery and permenant damage to my right ankle!

so....
1) im a bit concerned that if i buy the 250 i will outgrow it in terms of power.

2) the 450 seat height is a bit of a worry but i will get it lowered about an inch which should make it feel more secure for me. i will be able to plant more of my foot on the ground then. there is only about 10kg weight difference between the 2 bikes.

im 5'7" and weigh about 68kg (sorry, dont know what that is in pounds).

3) the 250 feels great as its a smaller bike all round. but...im going to be doing a lot of commuting initially and even some long distance riding followed by off road riding. which will mean i will be carrying some gear along with me.

im otherwise fit and active with a lot of upper and lower body strength and confidence.

any advice would be appreciated!

bernadette

ps. the boat building is coming along just fine. all frames completed and now setting up keel and backbone. bought more timber just last week for backbone. slowly buying up scrap lead from around the district for the ballast keel. will post photos soon!!!!

[Paul Pless]

Really I'd suggest a repost or redirect to the bilge. Motorcycles as a topic are generally treated pretty well down there.

[Larks]

Hi Bernadette, don't discount the 250 because of power, they generally have more than enough these days, particularly for a lightweight like yourself. It's been a while since I've been into the off road bike thing but for what it's worth I went from a Yamaha IT175 (2 stroke) to a Honda XR250 (4 stroke) to a Yamaha TT500 (4 stroke). Although the power of the 500 was a blast and great off the starting blocks in a race, I missed the fun and manoeuvrability of the 250. When I was mustering out of Alice Springs I could ride “around” most scrub on the 250, on the 500 I tended to go straight through it (and failed to see a stump once or twice on the other side).

If you were going to ride down to Brizvegas or over to the NT or something I’d suggest a 500 but if you are just planning on cruising around the bush up north there as well as your commuting, I’d be happier with the 250, (also easier to pick up when you have a step-off - regardless of upper body strength).

When you do end up doing some longer touring and you want a bit more load capacity you could probably look at upgrading then.

[py]

Hi Bernadette
I tend to agree with larks-my son has a kawasaki KX250F. Its a blast, more than enough power for me at 85 or so kg's. The modern 250's are pretty amazing. Road/trail bikes probably a bit less insane, but I'd still think they's have plenty of grunt. I've done some riding on an XR250 Honda-a fair bit heavier, and a lot less power. Havne't ridden any of the current/recent 400/450's but I expect they'd have just too much power for anyone but an experienced competition rider with a death wish. Light weight is really helpful fo rhaving fun off road. I'd go wth the 250. For a longer road trip though, I reckon a 250 woud seem like hard work after the first couple of hours. Maybe a more road focussed dual purpose bike would be in order for the touring bit. I had an XR600 for a while-just to big and heavy for me off road, and not much of a bike on the road.
Phil

[paladin]

Bernadette.....I cruised all over Thailand from one end to the other, Lao and parts of Cambodia on a Honda 250 only upgrading to to 305 then a 350....I should have kept the 305 and I'm 6'3" and my wife rode with me on the bike....

[Bernadette]

thanks guys...yeah, all the points you raise are what ive been thinking...that the 250 would be a blast in the bush and quite good for me physically. its just that i will be doing a lot of road travel as well including the long commute for work as well as trips interstate etc. (im intending to leave my mazda mx5 sports car more in the garage now). when i do go bush it wont be a mad helter skelter in virgin bush or anything similar but more so in places where a 4WD might go. so given that do you have any further comments? bernadette

[Larks]

As Phil says a 250 won't be as comfortable on a long trip but unless you are planning on such a trip in the next 6-12 months I'd still stick with the 250. You should see some of the bikes that used to come through Alice Springs on long trips when I was living there. I had a guy on an old Honda 75 ag' bike stay with me on his way from Melbourne to Darwin.

You could always stick a 250 on the train if you want to skip a few long legs of a trip (up and down the coast anyway).

Whichever way you go though.......you might like to consider how much noise it's putting out or whether you can muffle it more if you are going bush in reasonably popular places.

[paladin]

I rode a Honda 65 for several months from Clark AFB to Manila Philippines...mainly because I could stuff it in the cargo bay of the airplane I was flying....I covered the entire area of the Bataan Death March with that bike, a spare tire and cans of gasoline and two cameras and not much else...The 305 was a low rpm engine used by the police...good for thumping along all day long...

[Bernadette]

thanks again fellas! im now just waiting until i can get back down to the bike shop.
the salesman will have the 400 and the 250 side by side for me. that way i can really get a good idea of what i need to compare to make a decision.
with the 400 i get $1000 of extra gear included in the normal retail price so thats a bit of a bonus as i would have to factor in helmet, jacket, boots etc if i was buying the 250 anyhow. so costs work out much the same across the 2 bikes.
bernadette

[The Bigfella]

400

[wharf rat]

400. Always buy the biggest bike you can. Depending on how much you actually ride on-road, 400 would be considered by some, small. For off-road, 400 would be considered by some, small.

As a comparison, BMW's dual sports start at what, about 800cc's and the big one is 1200cc?

Buy the 400. You won't regret it. Until you find that it's too small.

cheers

[Larks]

If they are going to be the same price by the time you kit up, it will boil down to how comfortable you feel when you step on to it.....all the best with it though, let us know and post a pic.......

[PeterSibley]

Hi Bernadette , I'm the same weight and height as you ....OK 2 kg more .:D
I've ridden bikes for a VERY long time , got my licence at 16 .
Around the hills , off road a 250 is hard to beat ,it's light , flickable ...something you can stand up when you drop it .Unfortunately it will not be really happy on the highway at 110 k .You HAVE TO be able to keep up with the traffic on a bike .The buggars will drive right over you if you can't .Remember you're invisible .These days I reckon a 500 is the best all round bike for me and my useage is pretty similar to yours .So the 400,although I'd prefer a 500 .

I have a friend ,a woman , about your size who rides and rides a lot .She loves her old Yamaha XT 550 set up on road tyres .

[py]

Might depend what your commute is-if its open highway, yeah, go for the bigger bike. Not as much fun in the bush, but much better most of the time. And if your off road riding is on 4wd tracks, the bigger bike will be fine too. My off road is really off road, steep and tight, where a smaller bike pays off.

[PeterSibley]

Might depend what your commute is-if its open highway, yeah, go for the bigger bike. Not as much fun in the bush, but much better most of the time. And if your off road riding is on 4wd tracks, the bigger bike will be fine too. My off road is really off road, steep and tight, where a smaller bike pays off.

You're right about the tight stuff , my last bike was a 185 Suzuki ,excellent for it's specific use but the XT 500 was pretty useful too and freeway capable (just ) .

[Bernadette]

hello again guys...and thanks so much for the input to date...its beaut!!!

well i doubt i will be doing really full on bush bashing type riding like py describes. i just want to be able to go from the sealed road and off down cane tracks and forest roads and as i mentioned earlier, 4WD tracks. some long distance riding outback is on unsealed but graded roads too.

if i come across sticky patches im sure i will work out what i have to do.
im actually thinking of taking along a lightweight but strong block and tackle if i go deep off road for those times i may have to pull the bike out of trouble and i cant do it with just 'grunt' force! as i say, theres always more than one way to skin a cat!!!

for me going off road is not (so much) the thrill of riding on dirt but more the chance to be able to go someplace new/explore.

bernadette

[seanz]

Well I did some searching about....just trying to be helpful as I used to ride a bit.....ended up confused.
Yes...really.
:rolleyes:

I was going to point out that the extra weight of the 400 might be a factor. I searched and could find a 400 but I couldn't find a Suzuki DR-Z250, only a 200SE and that weighed 7kg more than the 400E....
So, yeah.....go the bigger bike, it's lighter.
:confused:
Surely there must be some mistake.
:D

[Bernadette]

sean the weight of the DRZ400E is 127kg and the DRZ250E is 118kg...so not much difference really!
bernadette

[jonboy]

I spend weekends belting about the hills and dirttracks near my house with guys on 400 and 600 KTMs and a 400 Yam motocrosser. they arre in their 20s and 30s and iam 53. I have a 250 yam tweaked and sorted for this work but it was a trail-road bike originally. I went for it because it is physically small and light, and I'm 6' and 85kgs, and I keep up most of the time with all but the total nutters. a fraction of the maintence costs. Don't go for the big BMW stuff... just watch Mc gregor and Boorman in the Long Way Round...

[PeterSibley]

Don't go for the big BMW stuff... just watch Mc gregor and Boorman in the Long Way Round...
:D:D
Watch them fall off all the time ! They must need the film crew to pick those monsters up .

Bernadette , I know you said you didn't want to ask this on a bike forum but this one is well worth browsing if you have the time and inclination .
http://www.advrider.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=2

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

Well, my daughter (33) bought herself a Honda Rebel 250 Cruiser some years ago, and later traded it up for a Yamaha 500. She said the Honda was able to to keep to the speed limit perfectly well on the open road, but that while the Yamaha could easily bust the limit (which she didn't particularly want to do,) it was really too heavy for her to handle.

She now wishes she could get the Honda back, but all the ones now available are secondhand and usually beaten-up, and she's kicking herself for ever selling hers in the first place.

Suse says that these days the body of a 400 is about as big as a 1000 used to be (apparently because it looks tougher,) but that it's all cosmetic (and also of course makes for extra weight.) Also that the Yamaha 250 is nowhere as good as her Honda was, and that the Kawasaki 500 is far too heavy....
___________

On another note, a female friend who had (I think) a 500 Bugatti was straddling it, stationary, in a gravel car park a few years ago when she lost control of the weight, and did enough damage to the tendons in her shoulder while trying unsuccessfully to stop it from falling that she needed two years of physiotherapy before her shoulder was workable again....
____________

From all of which I conclude, together with what's been said above, that you'd be better of with a 250 than with anything bigger.

Mike
(BTW 68 kg is about 10 st 10 lb.)

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

....

well i doubt i will be doing really full on bush bashing type riding like py describes. i just want to be able to go from the sealed road and off down cane tracks and forest roads and as i mentioned earlier, 4WD tracks. some long distance riding outback is on unsealed but graded roads too.
....

bernadette

For that sort of use - I'd rate almost any conventional shaped bike - no need to go for the long-travel suspension and consequent tall saddle.

Anything with an honest 25 bhp and a weight under 140 kg will do everything on the list - and paint a large sized smile on your face - the Big Trailie layout is an aerodynamic horror at speed - an hour at 80 mph (125Kmh) and you'll feel like your arms are being ripped out.

[jonboy]

:D:D
Watch them fall off all the time ! They must need the film crew to pick those monsters up .

Bernadette , I know you said you didn't want to ask this on a bike forum but this one is well worth browsing if you have the time and inclination .
http://www.advrider.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=2
from jonboy... don't get me wrong I'm totally in admiration of the boys for what they did, and those big BMs are great tools... but read what I said about compromises in Montague Naval Whalers...they never do one thing well...I have the dirtbike for dirtbiking and a road bike for the blackstuff... you wouldn't buy a speedboat to go across the channel and you ain't gonna ski behind a pilot cutter.

[Ted Hoppe]

Recent vintage bike build as the wet winter passes. 120 mpg - no licence needed - under 400 to build.


<http://www.flickr.com/photos/28817251@N02/sets/72157614736232470/>

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

For that sort of use - I'd rate almost any conventional shaped bike - no need to go for the long-travel suspension and consequent tall saddle.

Anything with an honest 25 bhp and a weight under 140 kg will do .....

I happily hammered this gem of advice into the keyboard and walked off....

Then I thought "what does the current UK suzuki list look like?" only to find that they don't seen to do a "conventional" bike at that sort of power and weight for the UK.

And neither do the other Japanese makers! - Nor Triumph - nor BMW.....

You can find biggish scooters - but maybe that's not what you want - looks like a huge hole in the market between 125cc/12bhp/120kg and 650cc/70bhp/210Kg - unless you are prepared to stomach a trailie with stupidly small fuel tank and no centrestand..


And then I found THIS (http://www.hyosung.co.uk/detail.php?id=9) - Koreans to the rescue?


Sorry.

[Rational Root]

Have you EVER ridden the BMW dual sports ?

Dual sports means a road bike with off road styling. Look at the tyres they all come with.

I had the BMW 800s predecesor the 750GS, and I'm 6'4" tall and over 200lbs (95kg+)

Anyone who actually takes that off road usually does a major rebuild first to reduce the weight. It's a truck with two wheels.

For off road, get the lightest you can, watch them race 125cc off road, then decide that you need bigger.

Anything that you can really take off road will suck on tarmac. On tar, you want power, hard (by comparison) suspension, road tires, and the weight does not matter once you start moving.

Off road you want something that you can muscle around, long travel suspension, and knobblies, and you only need as much power as there is grip on the surface.

When some tells you how big their engine is, ask them how many times they have had the throttle open to the stops at 7,000-10,000 rpm ?

When they say never, it means they could have just bought a smaller bike and driven it just as fast.
(Harley's are excluded, they just need a big engine to sound good)

Dave



400. Always buy the biggest bike you can. Depending on how much you actually ride on-road, 400 would be considered by some, small. For off-road, 400 would be considered by some, small.

As a comparison, BMW's dual sports start at what, about 800cc's and the big one is 1200cc?

Buy the 400. You won't regret it. Until you find that it's too small.

cheers

[PeterSibley]

Also that the Yamaha 250 is nowhere as good as her Honda was, and that the Kawasaki 500 is far too heavy....
___________



Mike , I based my recommendation on Bernadette's size , she's pretty well the same weight and height as me .Right now I ride an old Enfield India ..about as unsuitable bike for Bernadette's uses that I could imagine ! That Kawasaski 500 however would do the job very nicely for me .:D

edited to add
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190290979466&indexURL=0#ebayphotohosting

[seanz]

sean the weight of the DRZ400E is 127kg and the DRZ250E is 118kg...so not much difference really!
bernadette

If my faded (stone-washed?) memory serves me right....I had a Honda XR250RE that was just over 120kg and for me (at a fit 90kg), the weight was never an issue.
If you're just planning to potter about on fire trails and backroads you'll probably manage fine with the 400 and as they're throwing in a $1000 worth of gear that'd be what I'd get.... If I was ever going to buy a motorbike again.......:(......and I'd have the super-motad version.:D

You say you're an experienced rider so I really don't need to say this thing that I'm going to say anyway........get the safety gear.....wear it.....not just the helmet.......the boots, gloves and jacket too.

Have fun.
:cool:

[Bernadette]

seanz
i think you are thinking along the same lines as myself.
i am an experienced rider and with a whole lot of sense to boot.
many years ago i simply overweighted on a hill on a sealed road (turning the yamaha 750 virago with low seat height) whilst looking for bush tracks...anyhow i couldnt get out from underneath the bike quick enough and i broke my ankle...well it never got diagnosed properly and for the next 8 years i continually fell over and re broke it...now it is "mended" (read surgery and a 9" scar) it still doesnt work for me!!!
suffice to say im very conscious of what even slow speed stacks can do to your body. ive nursed so many men with fractured legs and arms to know what high speed crashes can do!!!
i would hate coming off at speed so i am DEFINETLY getting kitted up with protective gear!
i never had trouble picking up the yamaha 750 road bike. i would grab it from the rear wheel and the rest of the bike would follow. it was a technique i mastered after a number of 'drops'...sometimes from simply parking on too soft grass!!! once when i got off and forgot to put the stand down....!!!

i honestly think as time goes on that i will get a bit savvy with the 400 in the bush and with the guys at the shop dropping the seat height it will be easier for me. a friend here at work tells me her husband is shorter than me and had his DRZ400 seat height dropped and hes been riding it just fine.

the motard version is way cool i grant you that. its what attracted me to the bike in the first place. i was going to buy it then get a spare set of rims/tyres for off road!!!

geez...i feel sorry for the guys on here who have the same sort of dilemma when trying to figure out what boat to build or buy. i know exactly what i want in a boat!!! hence why im building the 30' KATY!!!!
and i also knew what i wanted in a car...the "small" size of my mazda mx5..but with power to waste!!!
something tells me im repeating a pattern here!!!! that small is good!!!!

and to the other guys on here...thanks also for your comments. its a blast reading them!!!

bernadette

[Bernadette]

oh!...and a joke...(my ex david didnt quite see the humour in this...he now rides a HD!!!)

Q. whats the difference between a vacumn cleaner and a harley davidson rider...?

A. with a vacumn cleaner the dirt bag is on the inside!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i had so much fun with this joke....i waited a whole month till david got back from overseas, then wiated till i saw him and sprung it on him!!!!
we get on really well and speak to each other often enough etc....but...i think he just crumpled his face up and sort of went "hurrummphh" and didnt get as much fun out of it as i did!!!!!! ha! ha! its so silly and yet so funny!!!

[Bernadette]

i got the 400...plus a heap of riding gear and all for a good price! i will post a pic soon!

[Larks]

i will post a pic soon!

In your leathers girl!!!:D....

Congrats on the bike Bernadette, I meant to ask earlier if it has an electric start (for your dodgy ankle)? I imagine all sorts of people will be along here telling you to be careful and so on so I won't, let her rip and have a lot of fun.:D

[Bernadette]

hey yeah, i clean forgot about my ankle and kick starts. it seems all bikes these days have electric start. but i think the 400 does have the kick starter as a standard extra.
so you want a pic in leathers hey!!!!thats another web site forum you must be thinking of!!! ha! ha!

[py]

Have fun! Leathers, off road in Qld? I don't think so. Hopefully the free gear you got is some good protective but lightweight breathable stuff. But you know that anyway.
Phil

[Bernadette]

i pick the bike up next week now...just moved house...i am now 80' from the beach and can see a couple of offshore islands...all within a dinghy sail away!!! dad is going to let me use his 10' nutshell pram while im living here!!! should have some great little adventures in it!!!
anyhow will post pic as promised soon.

[boatbear]

Bernadette, I missed the start of this thread but will say that I believe you made the right choice in the 400. You won't outgrow it so quickly. A bike with a bit of power and substance will be much more appreciated on Oz roads and trails.

This is Brunhilde, my lovely old BMW.

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL405/8230927/21476713/356929708.jpg

She is a joy on the tar at speed and is surprisingly agile and sure-footed in the dirt. I regularly load her up like a pack-horse and explore all sorts of country, including narrow and bumpy tracks in mountainous areas suitable only for goats. The extra weight is a real boon, providing momentum when needed for creek crossings and the like.

Enjoy yerself. Always look for the safe path.

[Bobcat]

Bernadette, I missed the start of this thread but will say that I believe you made the right choice in the 400. You won't outgrow it so quickly. A bike with a bit of power and substance will be much more appreciated on Oz roads and trails.

This is Brunhilde, my lovely old BMW.

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL405/8230927/21476713/356929708.jpg

She is a joy on the tar at speed and is surprisingly agile and sure-footed in the dirt. I regularly load her up like a pack-horse and explore all sorts of country, including narrow and bumpy tracks in mountainous areas suitable only for goats. The extra weight is a real boon, providing momentum when needed for creek crossings and the like.

Enjoy yerself. Always look for the safe path.

Slash 6?

[boatbear]

Bobcat wrote, "Slash 6?"
Correct, R90, and 1974 is the year.

[Bernadette]

hey thanks boatbear...one of the reasons im getting the bike and why it will be used for long distance commuting etc is that my mazda mx5 sports car is literally getting shaken to bits on the roads here (north queensland). i used to frequently travel between brisbane and sydney in the car and the road is pretty much ok. but when i got back up to north queensland i have found (as to be expected) that the general condition of the roads is apalling. i know the suspension of the mx5 is stiff and it doesnt take to kindly to surface uneveness, but enough is enough!!!
i am happy that i did go for the 400. cant wait to pick it up next week. :)

[boatbear]

FNQ is noted for its uncarworthy and unbikeworthy roads. There is fun to be had, though.

So, I guess you'd be out burning up some kilometres by now. How's it going?

http://pic50.picturetrail.com:80/VOL405/8230927/20310597/338413858.jpg
Ship's cat, aka Michael of the Jungle

[George Ray]

Yamaha TW200: We love ours. It is a highway capable mountain goat that has a seat height that is VERY friendly for shorter folks but in no way hinders taller folks. We added racks by 'CycleRacks" and they a a perfect fit for the 'little mountain goat'.
The first link is to a most incredible review/story that helped to sell us. My first choice was a Honda Trail 90 or 110 that would sort of fit on the boat but my wife wanted a bit more poser and highway performance. It is on the list to learn how to break it down and put it in the cargo hold.

http://www.cycleracks.com/images/TW200_Bikejpg.jpg

http://www.thumperpage.com/articles/tw200.html

http://tw200forum.com/

http://www.cycleracks.com/

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelhome/10/home.aspx

Notes: It has been in production since early 1980's. Kickstart was removed a few years ago but the TW200Forum has many interesting helpful threads, including some that have the details, the parts and steps to install/retrofit one. Less than $200 and a days work. (It's on my list!)

[Bernadette]

hey boatbear
i love michael...hes so cute!!!!
and george, that yamaha looks like a great bike.
ive been out on mine and took it on the beach, a muddy road and the highway and i love it!!! im taking my time to get used to it though. its got plenty of torque but not enough gears..i feel as though it needs another high end gear. i find 95km/hr on the highway is enough. the hand grips are good but the seat will take a little getting used to. i had 90% road tyres fitted which dropped seat height a bit. it is a high bike but i find it handles very easily and i havnt had any problems. it brakes nicely. all up a great bike. i will take some pics on my next days off.

[boatbear]

Hi Bernadette
I'm glad to hear that you love it. That is important; your bike should make you grin every time you see it or sit on it, and you should feel like giving it a pat and a thankyou when it gets you home.

re more gears - you will almost certainly have the option of changing your sprockets - a larger front sprocket and/or a smaller rear sprocket will give you taller gearing. That should get you up to 100km/h or more in comfort. A sheepskin on the seat will also help, comfortwise. The Suzuki DR seats are a bit, um, spartan.

Take care out there. Looking forward to pics.

http://pic50.picturetrail.com:80/VOL405/8230927/20310597/345220981.jpg

[Bernadette]

ooooohhhh...the new pic of michael is the best...its made my day! ta

[boatbear]

Hi George. That's a neat looking Yamaha, and the racks look robust and useful. Reading your post I notice you want to be able to break it down to fit in the hold. How far do you think you'll need to dismantle it? Just wheel removal, or forks, swingarm etc?

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL405/8230927/21476713/359235955.jpg
The sail-repairer's apprentice.

I would urge anyone contemplating DIY sail repair to avail themselves of a young cat as assistant. You won't be quite as productive, but you will both have the time of your lives.

[Bernadette]

im coming back as a cat...they have the best fun!!!!
my next yacht wont be big enough for my motorbike but it will be big enough for bosun!!!!

[boatbear]

im coming back as a cat...they have the best fun!!!!

Bernadette
I'll be more specific and say that I would like to come back as one of MY cats. Then I could laze around in my underwear all day waiting for my 'meals on wheels' provider to return from 'the hunt'.

I've shared my life with a series of well-indulged ginger cats, all of whom lived charmed and comfortable lives - Roger, Kevin, Trevor and Geoffrey represent 35 years of my servitude. Michael is now about 12 months old and is developing that state of languid calm that an older cat has - something to do with the knowledge that he has done quite enough activity for now and it's time to relax a bit.

http://pic50.picturetrail.com:80/VOL405/8230927/20310597/339149580.jpg

I've seen pics of Decatur along the way but cannot recall seeing the Bosun. Is he a bike seat sitter? Michael loves the sheepskin on Brunhilde's seat.