Where frames depart floors

[Lulworth]

Oh wise ones...

I've been busy replacing floor timbers and I've run into several that are so far gone that they don't make much of a template. I've cut the replacements to follow as closely as possible the curve defined by the (removed) garboard and broadstrake. In several places, the new frames (bent in before I inherited this project so I don't know what it really should look like) don't follow the garboard curve down near the keel timber. This seems fishy to me but maybe not since the frame bend is pretty severe in places near the keel timber. Right or wrong, original or not, it seems that the garboard was fastened to the floors in places where the frames couldn't/wouldn't/didn't follow the curve defined by the garboard planking/bilge. Does this make sense? The boat is an herreshoff s-boat. I guess the question is, what (if any) nightmares await those who fasten garboards to floors?
Thanks
David.

[FParth]

David,
My Herreschoff H-28 was built with the garboard strake screwed into the floors.

You might try checking the archives here. I've read arguments both for and against doing it. Have you checked the original documents to see whether it was designed that way? (I have Herreschoff's book where he discusses his most popular designs. Unfortunately it's at home and I'm not).

Fair winds and safe harbors.

[Rich VanValkenburg]

I had a similar question, but solved it by laminating the frames. Now, since all of Sonja's floors are being replaced, I'm following the frames. If the garboard is original, that would be the curve I'd try to follow, otherwise, when you go to replace the garboard someday, the error would increase. I'm unsure here, it seems it won't be as strong if the strakes aren't fastened to the frames and floors all along the curve.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid21/p6ba5c3506a4563490d28d78d604a0d95/fdb3853e.jpg

Rich

[ 05-28-2002, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Rich VanValkenburg ]

[Lulworth]

Rich,

Wow, your laminated frames look perfect! I have way too much to do to go back and redo frames so I am going to live with what I've got. I'll probably just fake it as best I can.

Frank,

The plans show perfectly fitted floors and frames. Sure, no problem.

Cheers,

David

[Lulworth]

To end the story or to invite someone to say don't so it, I checked a few old boats and talked to their owners and found that in some cases shims are used to fill the space between the uncooperative frame end and the garbord planking. In this way one avoids screwing into the end grain of the floors. That is what I will do -- glued in shims to make the frame wide enough to match the floor timbers and screws into the frames. Also saves me from having to redo the frames!

David.

[Dave Fleming]

Originally posted by Lulworth:
To end the story or to invite someone to say don't so it, I checked a few old boats and talked to their owners and found that in some cases shims are used to fill the space between the uncooperative frame end and the garbord planking. In this way one avoids screwing into the end grain of the floors.
***Am not familar with fastening planking to end grain of floors. Usually a frame is abutting a floor and the planking fasteners are screwed to the frame. Packing or shimming a floor or frame is not what I like to see. Usually plank is shaped to fit the curve bye 'backing out'.***

That is what I will do -- glued in shims to make the frame wide enough to match the floor timbers and screws into the frames. Also saves me from having to redo the frames!
*** howsomever did the floors and frames end up with different dimensions on the same station??***

David.

[Lulworth]

Dave,

** howsomever did the floors and frames end up with different dimensions on the same station??***

This is a restoration. Before I inherited it, someone paid a large amount of money to have it re-ribbed in the center section (aout 20 out of 30 frames were bent in) to preserve its shape. I wondered too why the frames and floors didn't match up very well (we're talking about a quarter to half inch either way on about six frames) and I guess I've come to the conclusion that the garbords were off when the frames were bent in and there was nothing to force the hot frame against down near the keel timber. Also, in some cases, the floors were pretty tattered so were hard to follow.

I will probably have to replace the garbords or at least do some extra trimming and backing out to make the old ones fit the "new" shape. It is frustrating to be dealing with someone elses work (mistakes?) but the guy that did it was without doubt one of the best in the area so it's probably ok.

Thanks for your interest,

David.