keel version of gray seal

[chuckm]

Love the Gray seal. Whay are there so few recent builders of this class? My question is, would the keel version be capable for coastal cruising? or is the CB version stable enough for open ocean. I think the keel version is a dandy and would rather build her than just about anything; besides I'm a sea sick sailor anyway. Oughtred says their equal in performance, I've always considered the CB's for big inland lakes,costal bays and sand bars, i'm i wrong? chuck m

[generic]

I'd like to hear someone elses take on this as well.
Iain says:

The shallow draught hull, combined with the short-mast gunter rig..............actually makes a safer and more comfortable vessel at sea in rough weather. Any thoughts?

[JimConlin]

I speculate that one of the reasons more small cruising boats aren't owner-built is that there is a pretty good supply of functional serviceable and sometimes attractive manufactured boats on the used market, where they command prices that are a relative bargain. When you can buy a functioning pearson triton for $5K, it's hard to justify building.

[Venchka]

Iain is the only person who can really answer your questions.

Where exactly do you do you wish to sail a Grey Seal? Just off the top of my pea brain, if you encounter really heavy conditions, the tiny difference between the two versions won't matter much.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[chuckm]

Yes but in all truth, i really do get sea-sick, but my desire is to build.. i know that dose'nt make any logic/sense..The waters below Corpus Christie-South padre are almost as nice as the waters around Florida, The Seal class by Oughtred are trailerable. So will the keel version draft in these waters???? The only web site i have found is by an Argintine named Emilio, my spanish is muy mall. My barn is almost ready for basic lofting. I have ash, East Tex Cedar and houston Hardwood for thr red meranti 12 mm plywwod using in accordance with BS standard 1088. I would paint over epoxy, and CPES, outer hull,paint only inner hull. The Keel version has more room for larger engine also.

[Don Maurer]

The centerboard version would be easier to trailer and launch from a ramp. Other than that, I don't see much difference. The keel version actually has less draft than the centerboard version with the centerboard fully extended.

[chuckm]

Yes the launching is a concern, i have seen some interesting trailers with a dolly/wheel, it looks like they disingage the trailer and lower the entire trailer. Where was that site where i saw a sloop and longer cabin on the Gray Seal, who was building her, i quess you contact by mail Ian oughtred?

[generic]

www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/greyseal3.jpg (http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/greyseal3.jpg)

Iain Oughtred
Struan Cottage
Bernisdale
Isle of Skye
Scotland

Tel. 01470 532 732

International code 011 44 and remove the first 0 of his number.

[Venchka]

Originally posted by chuckm:
..The waters below Corpus Christie-South padre are almost as nice as the waters around Florida, The Seal class by Oughtred are trailerable. So will the keel version draft in these waters????

...I have ash, East Tex Cedar and houston Hardwood for thr red meranti 12 mm plywwod using in accordance with BS standard 1088. I would paint over epoxy, and CPES, outer hull,paint only inner hull. The Keel version has more room for larger engine also.Howdy, Cuz! I'm not a full time Texican yet but I will be one of these days. Nice to know that a Grey Seal might be in the same neck of the woods.

No doubt the centerboard version requires more of everything to build. Materials. Time. $$$$s. The centerboard takes up valuable cabin space. I don't have the catalog in front of me, but I seem to recall the centerboard version draws maybe 15"-18" less with the board up than the full keel version. In a shallow estuary location like the Texas coast, sooner or later the extra draft will keep you out of some place or another. Maybe that's important, maybe not.

OK, here goes my bi-weekly plywood rant: In a multi-year, multi-mega bucks project like Grey Seal, why waste your hard earned money and precious time with anything less than the best available plywood? My own personal opinion is that nothing less than Lloyd's Approved plywood from either Harbor Sales (Shelmarine Sapele) or M.L. Condon (Bryunzeel Regina Mahogany) belongs in a boat like Grey Seal.

Shelmarine Plywood (http://www.harborsales.net/products.cfm?cat=Nautical%20%2D%2D%20Marine%20Pane ls)

Ash might be ok for the structural bits. Douglas-fir would probably be better. I don't have the plans so I'm shooting in the dark. The only place Texas aromatic cedar might work is for interior joinery. That would be pretty.

Skip the epoxy in between CPES and Kirby's paint and use that money for plywood. CPES & Kirby's paint inside and out. Works like a charm.

Grey Seal YAWL with extended cabin in North Carolina

Grey Seal Yawl (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008430)

The two piece trailers you've seen are popular in England where boats have to travel a good ways to find water at low tide. I'm not sure one of those would work for a 4,000 pound boat. I've never seen one in the States. Maybe they are around, not too sure.

Whatever you decide, get busy and do it! I'll be looking you up for some cruising inside/outside of Padre Island!

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[chuckm]

Larry, thanks for advice, I live in deep east Texas, in a working forrest, and the amount and quality of wood that goes to waste; well it would make that "Wild Dingo" curse even more. But the market buyers do not like E-Tx hardwoods due to their tatin content.These enzymatic stains are deemed a lesser quality and only used for railway ties and pallets.There's a process being developed by a Danny Elder, along with the Texas Forrest service to remove these tanins in a huge chamber heated to 100% humidity and cured. Elder has the patents. Any way this operation of Elder Hardwoods is a friend and close by. We also had a real "tornado" come thru last fall, so I harvested some huge red aromatic cedar trees;Sister n law not as lucky she lost eveything; big mess. Anyway if I go with the Keel version could use cypress, also avialble and inexpensive, but Elder say's might not glue well due to oils, he recommends ash for dead wood and laminated ribs. I contacted oughtred thru duck works and his reply was that it sounded OK. I don't think he's a big talker. Chuck in E TX

[Venchka]

I envy uou a nice stash of BIG cedars. They are hard to come by. I've been prowling around north of Tyler finding folks with bandmills. I seem to be a minority of one thinking that if you had a few big old indigenous loblolly pines that you could build a nice boat out of the heart wood. Seems like they would be a durn sight better than anything in a Texas lumber yard these days. Same goes for post oak, a respectable member of the white oak family.

I talked to a guy in Louisiana a couple years ago who was hauling old growth cypress from old tanks out of Texas. Go figure.

By the way, I've been waiting since 2002 for a quote for marine plywood from Houston Hardwoods. :confused:

Good luck!

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[chuckm]

Sorry Wayne (not larry); I called Houston Hardwoods and they do not have 1/2 in Sapele, did have 3/4 at 75$ sheet. They must have a good stock of 12 mm hydrotek BS1088 Red Meranti, cause thats what their pushing at 62$/sheet, good price. The highspeed-boat builders all swear by the hydrotek, but they totally encapsulate. chuckm E-TX.

[Lone Star]

Hey Chuck,

Good to see another Texas boat builder. Especially one that's interested in Oughtred designs. I started three years ago on Oughtred's Fulmar. I did quite a bit of searching to find suitable marine grade ply in Texas but I ended up using 9mm 7-ply BS1088 Okoume that I ordered from Edensaw up in Port Townsend, WA. Most of the stuff that I found in Texas was either 5 ply or it wasn't BS1088 grade or it was super expensive. One place in Austin wanted to charge me $100 per sheet and I had to drive down from Dallas to get it. The stuff I received from Edensaw was excellent and it was delivered to my house at a total cost of about $79 per sheet. They have a wide selection. Check it out...

Edensaw Marine Grade Ply (http://www.edensaw.com/f_marine.htm)

[hank woll]

hello all-i am about to start the molds for a grey seal-i'll need some help in the process as i have built only 2 other smaller boats-is there anyone out there i can ask?-is there a site such as the one for thr haven that has good info on it?-thanks-hank

[StevenBauer]

Hi Hank, great boat, I'm sure you'll have fun. smile.gif
There don't seem to be many web resources for Grey Seal but there are some for Iain's Eun Mara. For a start visit Dale's Alistego site (http://www.alistego.com) . From the home page there is a link to a discussion group page where you can post questions as they come up.
There is a lot of valuable info (and great photography) on the Dale's site - I'd study it carefully if I were you. :D

Steven

[JimD]

Don't know if anyone mentioned it but in general full keels will track a staight course better than centerboarders. CBs can be a little tiring for the helmsman as they tend to require more course corrections at the tiller. I know this is true of my cb daysailer. If I ever get around to building a bigger boat for longer cruises it will have at least a shallow full keel, perhaps augmented with a cb.

[kng]

Hi Hank... congratulations!! visit my web page.. is Grey Seal building site (http://www25.brinkster.com/kng) it´s in spanish but if I can, I will help you in anything... good luck !! where are you going to laminate the frames ??
cheers !!
Emiliano.

[hank woll]

hi all-wellthanks-i'll check that site-to emiliano-iwill laminate the frameson the molds or before from the laydown-i think both my plans which want three layers of 3/8 wood and the wb article that says 1/8 layers are offbase-i think 1/4 would be fine-i'm going to use ash-i wrote to you about the confusion i have regarding the heels of frame one-my measurements check at two sources but i dont get the rabbet and keel or keelson figures-any help?-thanks-hank

[hank woll]

hi steve bauer-i tried to clik on that site-couldn't get it-is the whole site address available-thanks-hank

[hank woll]

hi again emiliano-maybe i'm having an off day-or mu comp is -i can't get to your site either-hank

[mmd]

Re: the centreboard-vs-full keel question:

The centreboard version will most likely allow you to stand up to a breeze longer before reefing sails, and will possibly have a bit slower roll period that the keel version. In general, centreboarders are definitely easier to launch & recover from a trailer. These are good things.

The centreboard version will be a bit more fussy to build (building a strong centreboard trunk has been a challenge ever since the buggers were invented), a centreboard boat is more likely to develop leaks than keelboats, and centreboard trunks take up valuable interior space. These are bad things.

Everything in a boat is a compromise with something else, even merely selecting which type of boat you want. Be very pragmatic about what you want in a boat - "what type of sailing am I most likely to do, rather than what do I dream of doing" - and you'll most likely make the right decision.

[kng]

Hi hank again... I think the site has reached the limit bandwith, but try tomorrow.. I can send you images if you want.. here is my e-mail kngdrakkar@gmail.com ... I answered in the other topic too..
Emiliano.

[StevenBauer]

Any luck with Dale's site today, Hank?

www.alistego.com (http://www.alistego.com)

Steven

[hank woll]

hi steve-yes i got it -ithinki'm starting to get the idea-i see he has a cut or hog in the mold for the keelso-?same on grey seal-i need to do some mockups to get a better feel-i'm still not sure about those measurements as i said earlier-also-i was taught that the forward frames go aft of the station line and the aft ones forward of it-am i wrong in seeing that this plan is the reverse for some reason?-hank

[hank woll]

hi lone star-i haven't seen an ad for edensaw in a while-i don't think they would ship to new york anyway unless i paid a lot more-i hope to find a good source close enough to drive to-thanks-hank