Places to build

[siolaakis]

Hi, I would like to ask where to build a boat.I am going to build it myself and the boat is about 30 feet long.The building time will be anything between 2 years and up.I do not have a house with a backyard or any other property where I could do it.Where could I find a place big enough to build for the time needed??
Any suggestions are welcome.
Thanks Alois

[Nics]

Ciao Alois,
place where building boat is one of the big problems of a new boatbuilder.
You will need a clean space, at minimum double size of your bigger boat, whith a nice rain protection and good light...
At least ma not leastone the ground must be plane.

Ciao
Nicolas...

[warthog5]

siolaakis I give you my recommendation on this.
Due to the fact that you cannot build at your house, this is not a good idea for you to undertake.

Lot's of people that build boats have homes that don't have covinents [sp?] that would ban such a project. This means they don't usually live in swanky homes in subdevisions.

What your wanting to build will take every single hour of your off work time. Having to drive for 30min to get to where your going to build it will become a total pain. Especially if you are going there to only work 30min and then let the epoxy dry. You will find that you will be making excuses not to go. This will just prolong the project.

Since you don't have a house I can only assume that you have a very limited amount of tools. The reason I say this is that you have no where to store them or use them, so why have them?

If you want a 30ft wooden sailboat. Buy one in good shape. There's plenty of work to keep you busy with that.

[Buddy]

Also noticed your other post where you ask about a 30 Gartside design. Beautiful stuff this boat , but strip palnked and then cold molded, this is going to take a full set of lofting , and molds , and tools, not to mention specific skills. I'm sure a determined person could accumulate it all, but I'd bet one guy working fulltime in a proper shop couldn't count on doing it in two years.
What have you in the way of tools and experience?

[Venchka]

30 Ft Gaff Cutter, Design #109
Construction: Carvel on bent frames or strip planked/cold molded
This is a new version of an earlier design based on the Falmouth working boat model. It is a powerful go-anywhere boat with full headroom and a three berth layout with optional double. It is also a very simple boat to build with easy lines and straightforward construction detail. An eminently buildable and affordable cruising sailboat.
Buddy-

The boat can be built carvel as well. A moot point if you ask me. A small yard with 2 to 6 folks working as needed would be hard pressed to complete this boat in 2 years, in my opinion.

This Forum is full of incomplete boat stories. Usually much smaller boats than an 18,000 pound displacement cutter.

Meanwhile, the North American market is full of quality wooden boats around 30' LOA for a lot less than the price of materials for a new 30 footer.

On the other hand, I hate to discourage anyone from buying high quality boat plans. smile.gif

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Venchka]

ps: By the time you find a location, buy/rent/lease the location, amass tools & equipment, buy materials, work around the clock for ages, etc., etc., etc.....

You could hire Paul to build his own design and work out any problems with the design as he builds. Perhaps he could build to a specified stage of completion and you could finish the boat?

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Dave Gray]

Building time 5000 hours Skill level High

That's a lot of hours. Fer an amateur like me, I would think about doubling that amount (maybe tripling it). Which puts me about 90 years old when I complete it....

[Venchka]

AMEN! Exactly the point!

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Buddy]

"where never is heard, a discouraging word..." But a reality check might be the kindest, wisest collective suggestion we can offer.

[Venchka]

There you go.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[siolaakis]

Well, thanks for all your reality support.I am aware that lot of people bite a bigger piece than they can chew and that the amateur boat building history is full of unfinished boats rotting somewhere in backyards. :(
By the time I will start the building project I shall be ready with my study at boat building school in England and hope to have some idea what is involved in boat construction. :cool:
Since I have decided to build in USA and I do not own any property there ,I would like to know how is it done by people who live say in a flat and still build bigger boats.It is hard to believe that there is nobody in the US fitting my profile.
Maybe I could rent a smaller house with a backyard to build in if the landlord agrees to it, or rent a place, say in marinas or boatyards.........
I just would like to know wher you guys do it that is all. :confused:
Thanks Alois

[skuthorp]

At least one forum member from Chile I think built his boat in his living room and another in England slung his in the ceiling when they entertained. A Grey Seal and an Elf I think, both Oughtred boats.
Australia also had a visit from a Russian who built his to the dimensions of his balcony, (not wood) lowered it on ropes and sailed it round the world. Wonder where he is now!
tongue.gif

[MarkC]

I'll throw my 2cents in.

Buying second hand - or having one built is a good idea. If you just MUST build, then its all about Position, Position, Position - choose a site as far from water and cities as you can possibly get and it will be cheaper.

Example 1.
My girlfriend and I bought a CLC 16 kit from the states - as a winter project to build together. I thought we could rent a garage nearby to build it in. Little did I realise that garages to rent are hot property! Parents would not allow us to build in their garage (connected to house) with epoxy. There were no hobby spaces to rent... so we gave it to a canoe builder. He (they) were located miles from nowhere - away from the Rhein and most canoeing waters - one lived in a caravan out the back of the woodwork shop. They told me it was the only place they could afford to rent for the size they needed.

Example 2
I have just finished watching a TV documentary on Nebraska in the USA (maybe Norm can chime in here). The town Superior in Nebraska was featured and their battles in this town (and other mid-western settlements) to keep the towns alive.

It was astounding - there are 'abandoned' farms with houses and sheds etc that someone could rent (for example, from the town Mayor) to build their two-year project/boat. There are empty appartments, old gas stations (great building spaces!)- but also people with good handworking skills looking for part-time work, cheap transport companies, active wood-mills etc, etc. From the doco I got the picture that many different mid-western towns would be happy to see you and your project (as long as you can prove you are serious). I believe you could negotiate a very reasonable rent, to the benifit of your project.

Yes - you won't be near the sea and its inspirational workings. Nor near the cities, friends, your place of work etc. But then you won't be distracted...

[alteran]

As Mark said in example 2 if you are serious there are a lot of places out in the country that can be rented cheaply. I can think of several within 10 miles of me. A bigger problem might be finding a job that suits your needs here, that is if you are planning to work at a job and build the boat at the same time. There are jobs but in a rural area you may find the variety and pay level less than you are accustomed to.

[Venchka]

1. Go to school where you want to build the boat. Maybe you can build your boat at the boat school.

2. Locate a boat hauler who can handle the finished boat. Search around the boat hauler's location for a building site.

3. Build where the lumber grows.

All of the above points to the Northwest School of Boatbuilding in Port Townsend, Washington, Silva Bay Shipyard School, Gabriola Island, British Columbia and The Apprenticeshop in Rockland, Maine. The first two schools score highest for being closest to the lumber. The Apprenticeshop is in an area where there is a lot of boatbuilding activity and the lumber gets shipped there from the west coast. Boat haulers are also nearby. Washington and British Columbia have milder winters than Maine.

GOOGLE can point the way to these three schools.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by Dave Gray:
Building time 5000 hours Skill level High

That's a lot of hours. Fer an amateur like me, I would think about doubling that amount (maybe tripling it). Which puts me about 90 years old when I complete it....5000 hours is 2-1/2 man-years (50 weeks/year, 40 hrs/week = 2000 hours). I doubt very much that anybody working a full time job will be putting another 40 hours into the boat each and every week.

So...if building solo, ratchet that 2-1/2 years up by a facter of 2, 3...or more.

[Dave Gray]

Just to add on to what Nicholas said - you also have to factor the time to get to the worksite, the time it takes to get back into where you were when you left off, and then there is always the skill level. Which is why I'd be a centenarian.

But since this is not helping answer the question, on a more positive aspect, it depends where you will be. As mentioned, rural is great but your living standards may change. If you are in town and building a sizeable boat and don't have a barn to do this in, all I can think of is renting an old warehouse somewhere and making sure you can lease it (ironclad lease) for a number of years. And you would want it in a not too dangerous part of town.

Best of luck!

[Alan D. Hyde]

Times have changed.

BUT, last I knew, there would be plenty of places to affordably do as you wish in rural Maine or Nova Scotia (or perhaps Newfoundland, for that matter).

The trick would be to earn a decent living while building your boat in one of these places. With some ingenuity, years ago, it could be done. Now, the internet and the increased possibilities of telecommuting may make it somewhat easier to accomplish. There will be plenty of work, but that's a good thing, if you like the work.

Alan

[Tom Lathrop]

I can't add much to what has already been said about time, tools, etc. My one comment is that I would rather have a less than perfect building space at my home than a perfect one somewhere else. Just having to get into a vehicle and drive even a short distance robs you of small increments of time that add up to huge progress. Not to mention having all tools and materials in one place when you need them.

[Venchka]

Here is one man's pictorial account of building a 30' boat. Pay attention to the building and equipment around the boat. You may not need all of this, but you'll need most of it.

30' CUTTER (http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4290272927)

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Alan D. Hyde]

The right retired farm couple would rent you a room in the shed (the ell, probably the old hired man's room, likely unheated, but this is good for you) in exchange for fixing it up and doing some work around their place.

They might let you build in one of the old barns, if you promised to be careful and not burn the barn down.

The trick will be arranging for earning a good income whilst in a rural, perhaps remote, location, where this sort of arrangement may most easily be agreed upon. Be generous; help everybody out when you're able too, and you'll get along fine.

Alan

[leftish]

Alois, there are plenty of old barns; carriage houses and other assorted structures to rent cheaply in Maine. Just as long as you are not directly on the coast. Plus you have a choice of several good boatbuilding schools and wood supply. Check out Uncle Henrys Want Ads.

[Venchka]

Smacks his head hard! DUH! Right here in South Louisiana! Or more specifically, within the delivery range of Robichaux Lumber in Raceland, LA, a real boatbuilder's lumber yard. They have enough doug-fir, western red cedar, cypress and marine plywood to build just about anything. Taylor Lumber in Thibodaux, LA operates a sawmill and cuts mostly cypress. Salvaged old growth cypress is as close as New Orleans.


Robichaux Lumber (http://www.woodfinder.com/listings/010761.php)

There is a lot of heavy equipment low boy trailers for rent in the neighborhood. Bayou Laforuche connects to the Gulf of Mexico, but check the depth first. If the bayou isn't deep enough, you could have the boat hauled down to Fouchon and put in the water there. The Gulf is less than a mile away. A semi-rural, semi-depressed area where a decent shed could be found to build in. If you're really lucky, you can get a 7 and 7 or 14 and 14 job working on an offshore oil platform. Being able to work on the boat for a week or two at a time seems better than hit or miss after work every day or weekends. Winter? What's that? Year round building for sure. And no heating bills or wood to buy to heat the shop.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Disco Bay]

While coming to the forum is one of the best means of bouncing ideas and checking your ideas against "reality," anything is possible. I encourage you to take a look a the most recent publication of "Wooden Boat Magazine," #180, pg. 24 in the "Currents" section. Here we see what is possible in the most unlikely of places to build. Five stories up! In Brooklyn! C'mon...

And they said it couldn't be done... Ye of little faith.

The good news is that all here are just watching out for you and want you to succeed in every possible way. Most are speaking from experience (usually bad ones), but I find that actually trying it is the only way to really stick it in my stubborn brain.

I am a big fan of determination and drive though. Don't sell yourself short and just know that you are almost always in over your head. That's been the case for me, but somehow, inexpicably, the goal is achieved.

Did you see the thread Want Experience? (http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010430) Sounds like a great jumping off point.

~MJB~

[Venchka]

Originally posted by siolaakis:
...
By the time I will start the building project I shall be ready with my study at boat building school in England and hope to have some idea what is involved in boat construction. :cool:
Since I have decided to build in USA and I do not own any property there ,I would like to know how is it done by people who live say in a flat and still build bigger boats....

:confused:
Thanks AloisI too hope that Alois succeeds and look forward to his photographs of scantily clad beauties from the South Seas. Or wherever he goes crusing in his gorgeous Gartside 30' cutter.

The biggest fault I see is spending time in England in school and leaving there for the USA with nothing tangible to show for your time in school. Training in the USA would allow you to at least have a tender built for the bigger boat. It also affords you the opportunity to search for a building site for the big boat. I think you could actually start the big boat while in school. Perhaps have the backbone done when you graduate. Maybe even get a position as an instructor in the school and continue to teach others while you finish the Gartside cutter. Heck, if you're going to dream, dream really BIG! :D

Very few, if any, folks build boats this size while living in an urban flat. Most folks have enough space to build boats like this where they live. I could be wrong. I probably am. But boatbuilding on this scale and urban flat living don't exactly fit together.

By the way, Paul Gartside spent 5 years part time to complete his 22' SURPRISE.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[chergui]

Originally posted by Venchka:
All of the above points to the Northwest School of Boatbuilding in Port Townsend, Washington, Silva Bay Shipyard School, Gabriola Island, British Columbia and The Apprenticeshop in Rockland, Maine. The first two schools score highest for being closest to the lumber. The Apprenticeshop is in an area where there is a lot of boatbuilding activity and the lumber gets shipped there from the west coast. Boat haulers are also nearby. Washington and British Columbia have milder winters than Maine.
I would buy a small empty lot on Gabriola and build the boat there. Build a temporary enclosure over it. Even one of those strong plastic ones that you see in the boat yards would probably be fine, but I'm no boatbuilder. When you are done then sell the property. I'm in the same situation as you. I have no time to build a boat but I want to build a dinghy and have no where to do it. Sell the lot when you're done. You'll probably make some money on the lot it. A small undeveloped recreational lot isn't really that expensive depending on where you want it. Or buy a lot with a small cabin on it and live in that. Check out www.mls.ca (http://www.mls.ca) for property prices. I think this is the only way to go. If you rent something just for building the boat it's money down the drain.

[imported_Steven Bauer]

Check out the SOB thread in this section.

Steven

[Dan Cavins]

Hi Alois. I'll just give you my experience. I too had no place of my own to build. I just launched a 23' foot sailboat. Being of limited funds I needed cheap. I found a guy who let me work in his old warehouse for almost nothing. No heat or plumbing. This really slowed me up during the winter. But that was nothing. The hassles that ensued with the city building and fire dept. kept me awake at night. Of course I was told in the beginning that it was all ok. Not! Then the crazy people in the building, the homeless guy, the animals, and more... it took a toll. I thought I'd be out in two to three years. It was five. It just works that way. I promise it will take longer than you think. Now!, to be fair, I got it done and love my boat. But I will never do this again unless I have my own space to do it. Thirty feet is a lot. I'm not saying don't do it, just give it some honost thought. Just my experience, nothing more. Good luck, Dan.

[Bruce Hooke]

While Dan's story does point to some important cautions, there are good options in some cities (such as Providence, Rhode Island, where I live) for renting space in warehouses and old industrial buildings. In some cases you can also rent a loft space to live in within the same building, making getting to your working space very easy. While the cheapest spaces tend to be non-legal, no-heat, no-water spaces such as the one Dan worked in, you can also find better spaces for a little more money.