PDA

View Full Version : Animal abuse: justice done.



J P
02-03-2009, 01:55 PM
http://www.ravallirepublic.com/articles/2009/02/03/news/news10.txt

This is a local case that has been getting a lot of attention. Nutshell; a couple guys just about killed two pack horses from abuse and neglect. Left them lying collapsed beside the trail tied to a log. There is a long history and culture of horse ownership and horse packing around here and these two dorks are lucky they didnít get lynched. They got sentenced to some time and fines but itís still not stiff enough in my opinion. Got no tolerance for animal abuse Ö or for people who tie up the legal system when itís clear they fugdup.

Canít figure out why the dummies even came back to the State for the trial.

Phillip Allen
02-03-2009, 02:07 PM
I read most of it...pretty amazing that a couple of townies could do that and not be aware of what was happening...I wonder who talked them into the trip?...hiding maybe?

J P
02-03-2009, 02:12 PM
I don't know Phillip, I wonder too. Two months in the wilderness is a pretty lengthy trip for folks that don't know what they're doing.

htom
02-03-2009, 02:33 PM
I'm not a horse person; I've been on one a bit, but I won't even claim to know how to ride. But I know that animals as described there and in other articles (google the defendant's names) need something other than kicking.

I think they got off lightly. Of course, I spent my childhood in Montana, and am a little surprised that they were not beaten to within an inch of their lives and then shipped back to Georgia.

TimH
02-03-2009, 02:34 PM
The thing I dont get, is that if a person is convicted to 21 counts and up to 21 years, why would they only serve less than a year? Seems pretty lenient to me.


The six-person jury deliberated about nine hours before convicting the Heydons of all 21 counts of misdemeanor animal cruelty that they faced.

Misdemeanor animal abuse charges in Montana carry a maximum penalty of a year in jail and a $1,000 fine for each count.

That meant the Heydons could have received a total of 21 years behind bars and a $21,000 fine, although the typical penalties don’t come close to that.

Deputy County Attorney John Bell asked for a harsh sentence.

“I want to send a message to the community and to these individuals” that animal abuse won’t be tolerated in Ravalli County, Bell said.

After a brief recess, Bailey ignored the Heydons’ request for leniency and sentenced the elder Heydon to 10 months in jail and fined him $5,850. The younger Heydon was sentenced to 11 months in jail and fined $6,435.

TimH
02-03-2009, 02:54 PM
I ride past horses every day that are well cared for. I was looking on them, long and long, this morning. Two of the four had blankets. It was cold, and they had their heads down in the feed. I wondered why the two had blankets and the two didn't. These folks are smart horse people, and it was probably that two needed blankets, because of their coats, and two didn't.

I love watching them, and one day this Spring I'm going down there and give them some apples.

You shouldnt feed peoples animals without asking first.

J P
02-03-2009, 03:11 PM
I wondered why the two had blankets and the two didn't.


Probably hot-blooded and cold-blooded breeds.

There were four horses in this abuse case. Some more info and a few pics on this site. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/14341/MT/US/

Not sure what I'd do if I came across someone on the trail with animals like this.



edited to add: That pet-abuse site is interesting, you can look at your neighborhood for offenders. Not sure how up to date it is ... but it seems current with this case.

TimH
02-03-2009, 03:28 PM
Some people believe in blanketing their horses and others dont.
If you blanket them they don't develop thick winter coats. If you don't they will.
Blanketing is really unnecessary.

Its probable that of the 4 horses the 2 with blankets had different owners.

TimH
02-03-2009, 03:34 PM
"You shouldnt feed peoples animals without asking first."

I would never intrude or presume. But I'll bet those beauties would love some apples.

Well it bugs the crap out of me when the neighbors kids come over and mess with our horses. Feeding peoples horses apples is the same as coming into your house and feeding your kids candy.

Sure, they will like it, but maybe they arent supposed to get all that sugar. Horses can get pretty hot if they have too much sugar.

Warm blooded and cold blooded in horses doesnt have to do with blood temperature. Its a way of describing their temperment.
Old world horses like the draft breeds are considered cold blooded. Thoroughbreds are considered hot blooded. Crosses between the 2 are warm bloods.

Kind of like saying Latin women are hot blooded ;).

paladin
02-03-2009, 03:38 PM
Jack...being kind to animals and giving them gifts of apples is sometimes not the same. It's like a treat and an owner may use this as a way of rewarding the animal for something, and for a stranger to do it will mess up the routine. I used apples an pear when training Walela when in my teens and I didn't like it when my brother or sisters did it.....makes it difficult to train them....and the type of apple may not be good for them.

TimH
02-03-2009, 03:43 PM
Plus apple seeds contain arsenic. Not good for them.
Better just to leave peoples animals alone.

Unless of course they are being abused in some way.

J P
02-03-2009, 03:48 PM
Has to do with the location of the breed's origin too, no? Northern climes = cold-blooded.

Maybe if Jack asks the owners about feeding them treats he can ask if they are warm and/or cold blooded.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
02-03-2009, 03:50 PM
How does everyone feel about someone who would, say, hang a dog?

J P
02-03-2009, 03:50 PM
The problem with this issue, if you want to look at it, is that people like to eat animals. People get outraged about it, jump up and down, but the fact is that most of us like to eat other animals. It ought to be done, the animals raised etc., humanely, but at long as you are getting upset about it, raising Cain, while still eating animals, get back to me.

Vegan is a piece of work.


huh?:confused:

Peter Malcolm Jardine
02-03-2009, 03:51 PM
Horses are blanketed because A) they're old, and get cold, or don't grow a particularly heavy coat B) because the owner is showing, and wishes to maintain a summer coat, or the horse is clipped.

TimH
02-03-2009, 03:54 PM
Has to do with the location of the breed's origin too, no? Northern climes = cold-blooded.



Somewhat. People usually refer to hot or cold to describe temperment these days.
From WikiPedia:


Temperament

Main articles: Draft horse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_horse), Warmblood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warmblood), and Oriental horse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental_horse)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Subject_%28horse%29_20080420P1.jpg/180px-Subject_%28horse%29_20080420P1.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Subject_(horse)_20080420P1.jpg) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Subject_(horse)_20080420P1.jpg)
Thoroughbred race horses are a "hot blooded" breed.


Horses are mammals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammal), and as such are "warm-blooded (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warm-blooded)" creatures, as opposed to reptiles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptile), which are cold-blooded (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold-blooded). However, these words have developed a separate meaning in the context of equine terminology, used to describe temperament, not body temperature. For example, the "hot-bloods," such as many race horses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_racing), exhibit more sensitivity and energy, while the "cold-bloods," such as most draft breeds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_horse), are quieter and calmer.[72] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse#cite_note-71)
"Hot blooded" breeds include "oriental horses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental_horse)" such as the Akhal-Teke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhal-Teke), Barb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barb_(horse)), Arabian horse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_horse) and now-extinct Turkoman horse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkoman_horse), as well as the Thoroughbred (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoroughbred), a breed developed in England from the older oriental breeds. Hot bloods tend to be spirited, bold, and learn quickly. They are bred for agility and speed.[73] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse#cite_note-Henry59-72) They tend to be physically refined—thin-skinned, slim, and long-legged.[74] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse#cite_note-73) The original oriental breeds were brought to Europe from the Middle East and North Africa when European breeders wished to infuse these traits into racing and light cavalry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalry) horses.[73] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse#cite_note-Henry59-72)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/Belga_da_Tiro.jpg/180px-Belga_da_Tiro.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Belga_da_Tiro.jpg) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Belga_da_Tiro.jpg)
The Belgian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_(horse)) is an example of a "cold blooded" draft breed.


Muscular, heavy draft horses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_horse) are known as "cold bloods," as they are bred not only for strength, but also to have the calm, patient temperament needed to pull a plow or a heavy carriage full of people. They are sometimes nicknamed "gentle giants."[75] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse#cite_note-henry70-74) Well-known draft breeds include the Belgian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_(horse)) and the Clydesdale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clydesdale_(horse)). Some, like the Percheron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percheron_horse) are lighter and livelier, developed to pull carriages or to plow large fields in drier climates. Others, such as the Shire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shire_horse), are slower and more powerful, bred to plow fields with heavy, clay-based soils.[75] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse#cite_note-henry70-74) The cold-blooded group also includes some pony breeds.[76] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse#cite_note-75)
"Warmblood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warmblood)" breeds, such as the Trakehner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trakehner) or Hanoverian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanoverian_(horse)), developed when European carriage and war horses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_warfare) were crossed with Arabians or Thoroughbreds, producing a riding horse with more refinement than a draft horse, but greater size and more phlegmatic temperament than a lighter breed.[77] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse#cite_note-76) Certain pony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony) breeds with warmblood characteristics have been developed for smaller riders.[78] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse#cite_note-77)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/WCLV07f.JPG/180px-WCLV07f.JPG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WCLV07f.JPG) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WCLV07f.JPG)
A modern "Warmblood" horse is large, but agile and athletic.


Today, the term "Warmblood" refers to a specific subset of sport horse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_horse) breeds that have dominated the Olympic Games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Games) and international FEI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_for_Equestrian_Sports) competition in dressage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dressage) and show jumping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show_jumping) since the 1970s. Prior to that time, the term "warm blood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warmblood)" often referred to any cross (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossbreeding) between cold-blooded and hot-blooded breeds. Examples included breeds such as the Irish Draught (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Draught) or the Cleveland Bay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Bay). Less often, the term was even used to refer to breeds of light riding horse other than Thoroughbreds or Arabians, such as the Morgan horse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_horse).[79] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse#cite_note-78)

J P
02-03-2009, 06:45 PM
Somewhat. People usually refer to hot or cold to describe temperment these days.


I know the terms hot/cold blooded are also used to refer to temperament. Still, I’d guess, maybe wrongly, that they were originally more related to the climate origins of the breeds though. Too intertwined now to debate I think … and there’s no point debating with horse people; they’re all nutz. ;)

I’ve always thought of horse blanketing pretty much the way Peter put it in post #19. Last summer I was visiting my Mom (a lifelong horse-nut and still riding in her mid seventies (worries the crap out of me)) and I went with her to a stable where she was taking care of, and riding, a friend’s horse. I noticed a couple of the horses were blanketed and all the others weren’t. I asked why, were they showing or something? She said, no, rolling her eyes, they were this hot blood breed (I can’t remember which) and that the owners think they need to be blanketed.

So, yeah, some owners blanket their horses and some don’t, and for various reasons. Horses for courses.

TimH
02-03-2009, 06:52 PM
Thats the main reason. I used to have a Paint show horse with lots of white. We used to blanket her a lot or she would be all green brown and black from rolling on the ground.

We have Tennessee Walkers now...we dont blanket them.

Plus they have fly blankets to help keep the bugs off. We use those in the summer.

Blankets can be dangerous if the horse gets tangled in it ot gets caught on something.

Lots more to it than just where the breed was originally from. Like Tennessee.....is that considered hot or cold?

Phillip Allen
02-03-2009, 08:32 PM
I have read about the fur trappers stripping bark from trees (aspen?) to feed their horses when snow covered the ground...horses were important and had to be taken care of

Rigadog
02-04-2009, 09:00 AM
Where is GR?

John of Phoenix
02-04-2009, 09:59 AM
http://www.pet-abuse.com/media/case_pics/case14341_1221897170_1.jpg
Dawn Merrill and Q DeHart discovered this horribly emaciated and sore bay gelding recently abandoned on Big Creek Trail, near Stevenvsille, Montana. The photo was taken after they had pulled his saddle off and given him five bottles of water. Photo by Q DeHart and Dawn Merrill.
They left this horse tied to a log with his saddle on? How stupid does a person have to be to get a horse into this condition in the first place and then do that?

Those guys are going catch hell in the slammer.

Phillip Allen
02-04-2009, 11:45 AM
Wow, John...I hadn't seen that pic!...I wouldn't think that even townies were that stupid...there MUST be more to the story...surley it can't be that simple!!! (related to the Donners maybe?)

TimH
02-04-2009, 11:49 AM
Horses have willingly served mankind for thousands of years. I am constantly amazed that they want to please people.

Phillip Allen
02-04-2009, 11:58 AM
I'm at a loss Doug...it is beyond my understanding

John of Phoenix
02-04-2009, 12:00 PM
We went to Mackinac Island last year, the quiant little place where they don't allow cars. I was talking to the carriage driver from the Grand Hotel about his team of two matched horses. He said they were amazingly intelligent and knew 11 voice commands in addition to their standard responses to the reins. He said they genuinely enjoyed human contact and loved to show off.

TimH
02-04-2009, 12:06 PM
Some horses are smarter than others. We had one that used to watch every move you made with your hands when you would open the gate to his stall. Pretty soon he figured out how to open the latch. You had to turn the slider at least 90 degrees and slide it over against the spring and then push (pull in his case) the gate at the same time. He took great pride in his ablilities to figure stuff out. Everytime I would do something to keep him from getting out he would figure it out. And always the first thing he would do when he escaped was run up to the front door of the house and show off. All he wanted was attention.

Phillip Allen
02-04-2009, 12:08 PM
Some horses are smarter than others. We had one that used to watch every move you made with your hands when you would open the gate to his stall. Pretty soon he figured out how to open the latch. You had to turn the slider at least 90 degrees and slide it over against the spring and then push (pull in his case) the gate at the same time. He took great pride in his ablilities to figure stuff out. Everytime I would do something to keep him from getting out he would figure it out. And always the first thing he would do when he escaped was run up to the front door of the house and show off. All he wanted was attention.


thanks for the laugh...good story

George Roberts
02-04-2009, 12:33 PM
Phillip Allen ---

It appears that there is a lot more to the story. I googled the name of one of the convicted.

It appears that the 2 people had no horse experience and wanted to take a long horse trip in the mountains.

Once you get into the mountains and discover you don't have enough food for the horse and no skills to handle the medical issues, you don't have much choice but to bring the horse out in poor condition.

It also appears that one of them went to get their truck and trailer with the intention of getting aid for the horses.

While some think the punishment is too light, the prosecutor is considering making a sentencing offer to avoid an appeal. So it looks like the punishment will be less.

---

I hear that in horse races from time to time horses are hurt to the extent that they need to be destroyed. Yet there is no claim of abuse. Different strokes for different folks.

And in the north central part of the country cows freeze in the winter. No claims of abuse. Again different strokes for different folks.

---

Always more to a story ...

TimH
02-04-2009, 12:57 PM
I suspect that since their intent was not to torture the horses thats why they only got a year in jail. If they intentionally tortured them they would have gotten the full 21 years.

J P
02-04-2009, 01:27 PM
Funny story about the latch Tim. Was that one of your Tennessee Walkers? They're supposed to be pretty intelligent. Nice all around horses and really getting to be popular. If I lost my mind and thought about getting a riding horse I'd look at TW's.

They can be some clever rascals. When I was a teenager I worked at my uncle's stable and did some traveling on show and race circuits. I wasn't into riding much and mostly helped with handling, grooming, etc. Chief mucker really. We were showing this one particularly magnificent and valuable (6 figure) chestnut thoroughbred that I thought was the most beautiful horse in the world. I'm sure the owners did too. I really liked that horse and was proud to be his personal servant. I had tied him up outside the stall at a show and went to get my bucket of stuff to work on his feet and when I came back he was gone! He had untied my bad knot and was trotting through the show grounds dragging his lead ... tent guy lines and stakes everywhere, other horses and people getting excited ... he seemed to enjoy all the attention. Someone got ahold of him before he damaged himself or anything else but man, did I get in deep, deep, doodoo.

Phillip Allen
02-04-2009, 01:54 PM
I always wanted to make such a trip and tried to figure out how to do it...what always stopped me, and this is paramount, is I knew I didn't know enough to take proper care of the animals...if I can figure that out then they could have done the same thing...excuse of ignorance is, therefore, denied...

TimH
02-04-2009, 01:55 PM
Funny story about the latch Tim. Was that one of your Tennessee Walkers? They're supposed to be pretty intelligent. Nice all around horses and really getting to be popular. If I lost my mind and thought about getting a riding horse I'd look at TW's.




Yep...TW.

Popeye
02-04-2009, 02:07 PM
apple seeds contain arsenic. . huh ? (http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/apples.asp)

J P
02-04-2009, 02:09 PM
I always wanted to make such a trip ...

Me too. What kind of gun(s) would you bring? ;)
Pack goats make more sense to me in this country.

It's hard for me to imagine how anyone, no matter how ignorant, could let animals get into this kind of condition on a freakin pleasure trip. It's a big wilderness but it ain't that far from roads and help, and those critters didn't get like that overnight. In the summer in those mountains there's grass in the meadows and water everywhere.

Canoez
02-04-2009, 02:11 PM
huh ? (http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/apples.asp)

Well, Hydrogen Cyanide - good enough for ya?



Apple and pear seeds and the inner stony pit (kernel) of apricots and peaches contain a naturally occurring substance called amygdalin.
Amygdalin can turn into hydrogen cyanide in the stomach causing discomfort or illness. It can sometimes be fatal.

Popeye
02-04-2009, 02:21 PM
Well, Hydrogen Cyanide - good enough for ya?

still not accurate

it's good to know the form of the compound and the relative quantity

it could actually be a nutrient ..:):D:rolleyes:

Phillip Allen
02-04-2009, 02:26 PM
Me too. What kind of gun(s) would you bring? ;)
Pack goats make more sense to me in this country.

It's hard for me to imagine how anyone, no matter how ignorant, could let animals get into this kind of condition on a freakin pleasure trip. It's a big wilderness but it ain't that far from roads and help, and those critters didn't get like that overnight. In the summer in those mountains there's grass in the meadows and water everywhere.


Marlin, short barreled 45-70 with aperature sights (crossbolt safety disabled)...home cooked up loads with bullets of 400 grains plus...bear defense only....22 for pot meat

htom
02-04-2009, 02:27 PM
There are, I'm told, people who treat horses as if horses are cars. I don't understand that. But given how I've seen other people treat dogs and cats, I can believe that it's true.

TimH -- great story.

Phillip Allen
02-04-2009, 02:31 PM
There are, I'm told, people who treat horses as if horses are cars. I don't understand that. But given how I've seen other people treat dogs and cats, I can believe that it's true.

TimH -- great story.



Yep...unfortunately I'm related to one...can't seem to educate him no matter how hard I have tried (oldest sonÖheís got sh*t for brains and I'm really sorry about it)

Popeye
02-04-2009, 02:34 PM
What kind of gun(s) would you bring?

just a small cannon

George Roberts
02-04-2009, 04:47 PM
Yeah right. There's always at least one good reason to maim, torture or kill an animal. Most people don't eat horses or house pets so why don't you enlighten us as to some legitimate reasons why crimes like this should not be dealt with in a most severe manner.

Doug


It seems that the best reason is that the judge gave a sentence that you view as light and the prosecutor is willing to accept an even shorter sentence.

It seems that neither regards the crime as being as serious as you do.

I guess we deal with people who spit on the sidewalk with capital punishment. But ...

Tom Montgomery
02-04-2009, 04:54 PM
Hope springs eternal.

TimH
02-04-2009, 04:59 PM
if they had hung a horse from a tree they would have gotten the full 21 years I'll bet.

Tom Montgomery
02-04-2009, 05:08 PM
They received light sentences. My guess is that there was no evidence that they had threatened to harm horses in the past. And no evidence that they deliberately intended to harm or kill the horses. Their stupidity and ignorance resulted in their criminal neligence. But evidently the court determined that the harm was neither premeditated nor intentional. An act like hanging the horses would, on the other hand, have been both.

Phillip Allen
02-04-2009, 05:34 PM
They received light sentences. My guess is that there was no evidence that they had threatened to harm horses in the past. And no evidence that they deliberately intended to harm or kill the horses. Their stupidity and ignorance resulted in their criminal neligence. But evidently the court determined that the harm was neither premeditated nor intentional. An act like hanging the horses would, on the other hand, have been both.


plus...impressive without block and tackle

John of Phoenix
02-04-2009, 06:04 PM
Their stupidity and ignorance resulted in their criminal neligence.
"Twenty years for aggravated felony stupid. Get 'em outa here." cried the Judge. The crowd went wild.

If only...