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View Full Version : WWII Vet Freezes To Death In Michigan Home



Captain Blight
01-30-2009, 02:08 AM
http://www.wnem.com/news/18566890/detail.html#-

"Schurís neighbor, Herndon, said Schur had a utility bill on his kitchen table with a large amount of money clipped to it, with the intention of paying that bill."

This sort of thing really chaps my ass. In Minnesota they can't shut off your power from November to May IIRC. Michigan allows some sort of "line limiter?" WTF?

How does this happen? How does this happen in America, for pete's sake?

Glen Longino
01-30-2009, 02:25 AM
Cattle in a feedlot, Cap.
Can't pay, can't stay!
I know how you feel, but under present circumstances we only have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness so long as we keep up our payments.
Why do we allow it to be that way?
Beats me!

Michael Beckman
01-30-2009, 04:13 AM
Thats insane.
America is full of ***holes. Luckily theres a lot of good people too..

rbgarr
01-30-2009, 04:28 AM
I fear similar tragedies will happen in Maine this winter, too.

Nicholas Scheuer
01-30-2009, 07:04 AM
Michigan gas consumers should press for the Utility ti fire the person in charge. Toss him out on his butt! $END A ME$$AGE!

It's the only language they'll understand.

Moby Nick

LeeG
01-30-2009, 07:13 AM
as much as folks would like to frame this in terms of evil and callous culture it's also a way some old folks die, alone, dementia taking a recluse to death after some simple event takes them beyond their ability to care for themselves.

A lot of old folks are living in their homes as is their wish, they could fall in the bathtub, have a heartattack in the basement, or decline to the point they forget to pay the bill, take necessary medicines, or turn off the stove.

If my dad lived in a colder climate I could see the same thing happening to him.

LeeG
01-30-2009, 07:44 AM
Sure it's a good question. I'm kinda curious why it matters he's a WWII vet. My dad is a WWII vet, BFD, there are more old ladies and little kids than old guys from WWII. What if it was a 90yr old woman. A 2 yr old toddler? Oh right, we gotta sing hosannas to the survivors of the war machinery.

How a civilization cares for it's very young and very old is an indicator of what it values. We value the bottom line more than healthcare for WWII vets or 2yr old toddlers.

Not sure what you're trying to say with the description "socialized utility run by a democratic commission". If anything it'll take social programs that value people and not profit for the medical industry or the needs of the utilities shareholders.

Which is why you should be glad Obama is president as he's more likely to encourage service programs where young people will be helping old folks insulate their homes.

right?


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99895320


Malcolm Woolf, the chief energy administrator for the state of Maryland, says the stimulus package could boost his budget at least tenfold and put thousands of people to work on weatherizing homes. "The initial investment, by having folks get trained to put in insulation — that pays dividends today because it employs people," Woolf says. "And it pays dividends down the road because those homes therefore use less energy and are saving those families money."

Nicholas Scheuer
01-30-2009, 07:55 AM
Sounds like you folks in Michigan have some work to do, Milo.

I used to reside in Minnesota, and I remember their policy of not turning off the gas through the winter.

Don't know Illinois' utility policy; we've been a little preoccupied with Gubanatorial politics; but haven't read ay similar headlines.

Moby Nick

Rigadog
01-30-2009, 08:31 AM
An old lady wandered to a rooftop at one of our better hospitals here, couldn't find her way back or couldn't open the door. She died also.

Bob Adams
01-30-2009, 09:13 AM
Oh right, we gotta sing hosannas to the survivors of the war machinery.

"

I always wondered about your screwed up views. Now I wonder less.

ishmael
01-30-2009, 10:49 AM
You read these stories every winter. With this extended power outage in the US mid-west, in January, we're bound to hear more of them this year.

Maine has law in place which says the utilities can't be shut down for non-payment for a certain number of months. Sounds like this guy had the money, just forgot, or wasn't able, to get it there on time. I think the laws forbidding shutting off essential utilities are good ones, but what do you do when the power grid goes down by an act of nature? Try to keep an eye on your neighbors, I guess, particularly the elderly.

Not to sound uncaring, I wish someone had found him before he froze to death. But maybe he kinda gave up, said, "Well time to go." Sounds like he had a rich full life. RIP.

LeeG
01-30-2009, 11:13 AM
I always wondered about your screwed up views. Now I wonder less.

Bob, I volunteered for Hospice for 4yrs sitting with old guys and women from that era in their last days, weeks and months. I sat with a guy who was a infantryman on D-day. He beat his wife and was oblivious to why she left him 30yrs ago, his daughter was a welfare mother wise to scamming the system. I sat with a 93yr immigrant from Norway who had bone cancer , helped him mow his lawn for the last time. Met a very nice guy in my old neighborhood who used to train US airmen in Canada pre-WWII. He built a hundred balsa and tissue models of his favorite trainer plane. His little one car garage was full of them.



I just find the description "WWII vet" an interesting tag given the irrelevancy to the circumstances of his death. The news machine can market it's products better if it's presented a particular way. The militarization of our foreign policy had consequences in Iraq. The military industrial complex meets needs other than our nations security. And in one little way the death of a 93 yr old guy with dementia is more noticable because he's a "WWII vet".

But thanks for the attention, do you have a specific issue in mind regarding my screwed up views or is the wholesale characterization all you have to add?

LeeG
01-30-2009, 11:22 AM
Not to sound uncaring, I wish someone had found him before he froze to death. But maybe he kinda gave up, said, "Well time to go." Sounds like he had a rich full life. RIP.


that's the reality my dad is going through. His electric space heater went on the blink. So he figures the electric company turned off his power. If they turned off his power he must be out of money. If he ran out of money it's time to kick the bucket. So he tells the person we got to visit him weekly that he thinks it's time to die. She tells her supervisor, they call adult protective services and the police thinking dad is suicidal when he's actually saying the same stuff he's said for years about end of life decisions that he can't make and has put off. But he's in Los Angeles so his bedroom got to 65 degrees instead of 0.

testosterone is not a very good hormone for developing systems of care,,let alone self-care. Sobriety didn't change that for him.

Hey Bob, what systems of care does the VA have for men and women in their declining years? Just askin.

Dan McCosh
01-30-2009, 11:28 AM
Don't know anything about this case, but this has been at least close to the coldest winter on record, and there are plenty of ways to die from it. A solitary, elderly person is particularly vulnerable. The heat was off next door for a couple of days due to a furnace failure. Neighbors and family might keep this in mind. As for the electric bill--sounds as if it was unpaid for about a year. I really don't know what the shutoff, limiting procedure is.

Ian McColgin
01-30-2009, 04:28 PM
We managed to stop those limiters from entering service in Massachusetts partly because I pointed out to our Commission (who at first thought it would be a good idea) that they could not be made to comply with the no winter shutoff, no elderly shut off, no serious illness shut off laws which are, after all, state laws not to overturned by a utility regulation.

Michigan has similar laws and the contortions their PUC went through to allow the line limiters are a disgrace.

Dan McCosh
01-30-2009, 04:33 PM
What is a line limiter?

Ian McColgin
01-30-2009, 04:33 PM
We managed to stop those limiters from entering service in Massachusetts partly because I pointed out to our Commission (who at first thought it would be a good idea) that they could not be made to comply with the no winter shutoff, no elderly shut off, no serious illness shut off laws which are, after all, state laws not to overturned by a utility regulation.

Michigan has similar laws and the contortions their PUC went through to allow the line limiters are a disgrace.

By the way, the utilities always whine about bad debt but for most regulated utilites it's way under 5%, usually under 2%. Most of that is commercial and industrial, where collection practices are allowed to be more draconian than residential. It's way less than losses at the average supermarket. So try not to let the idea that deadbeats witll bankrupt the system have any impact.

CK 17
01-30-2009, 05:00 PM
How does it happen? A socialized utility run by a Democratic Commission, . . . . . . .
.

I think unchecked capitalisim would have been far more compasionate:rolleyes::rolleyes:.