Most Numerous Daysailer

[jtrieck]

What do y'all think are the most numerous daysailers built?

I would think the Herreshoff 12 1/2 and the Beetlecat would be in that group, but which others?

I am looking for specific designs, not something general like "sharpie"?

Thanks!

[Paul Pless]

Gotta be the Optimist Pram, currently there's 140,000 of them registered with the class association.

[rbgarr]

As of 2001 over 300,000 Sunfish had been built. The class has it's own Facebook page! http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2211873824

[Thorne]

You'll need to define "daysailer" to get much of an answer...

[James McMullen]

How many gazillion Lasers are there, too?

[Tom Lathrop]

You'll need to define "daysailer" to get much of an answer...

The only way that the 12 1/2 and Bettlecat will be the top two is if "Daysailer" is defined in such a way that no other boat qualifies.

I don't know what jtrieck has in mind but maybe he will say. Maybe the most numerous daysailers on a mooring in Marblehead:D? Maybe we don't understand the question?

[rbgarr]

How many gazillion Lasers are there, too?

As of 2007: 190,000 plus... and Bruce Kirby has done alright by that design: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Kirby_(yachts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Kirby_%28yachts))

[jtrieck]

I see the error in my question - let's see if I can better convey my curiosity:

What other high-volume, likely production-built, wooden daysailers are there other than the Beetlecat, and Herreshoff 12 1/2? I am especially interested in boats whose popularity has remained consistent over the years by folks that are not dedicated racers.

I would take the Optimist, Lazer and Sunfish out of consideration as I suspect the bulk of the production volume of those boats was in fiberglass.

By daysailer I mean boats that are not intended for blue water crossings, have comfortable open cockpits, and may or may not have interior accomodations, but those accomodations are mostly intended for overnight stays or simply a place to get out of the weather.

Hope that helps!

[StevenBauer]

Just off the top of my head there is the Star, Lightning, Blue Jay, Thistle, Comet, Mirror, Wayfarer, Flying 15, Finn, International 14 , 49er, all larger classes the the 12 1/2 or the Beetle Cat. I'm sure there are many others.


Steven

[Hwyl]

Built in wood and Popular are two Jack Holt designs. The Enterprise got to more than 10,000 before they introduced glass, and wooden ones are still being built.

Then there is the Mirror Dinghy, also mostly made of wood, more than 70,000 made a ball park would be that 50,000 of those are wood.

I don't think the horrendous Beetle Cat or the stately 12.5 are even a blip on the radar. Unless you want to refine the search to within 50 miles of Boston. Even then I'd wonder.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Wayfarer, GP14,

Or are we thinking ballasted?

Dragon?

[bamamick]

International Snipe. Popular in every corner of the sailing world. You can build one in wood if you want. Thousands were.

I think that there were a lot more Penguins built than either of the classes you mentioned. I think that there were a lot of a lot of boats built that heavily outnumber the H12 1/2 and the Beetle, as nice as they are.

Mickey Lake

[BrianY]

...the horrendous Beetle Cat....

"Horrendous"?! :eek:

[jtrieck]

Wow, I didn't realize that for all the press they get, the 12.5 & the Beetlecat are not even notable.

Which brings up an interesting question: despite their attractiveness and reported qualities, have most folks found that the troubles associated with owning a 12.5 or Beetlecat outweigh the benefits?

[StevenBauer]

Troubles?




Steven

[bamamick]

Oh, I would say so. I owned a Beetle for several years and if I had been able to keep her in the water full time she would have been perfect for what I wanted her for (fun sailing with my kids where you can take a sandwich and a drink and not worry about crash tacking every time you take a sip or a bite). They are neat little boats and my only problem with mine was that I had to dry sail it. Not adviseable, imo.

Never been on an H12 1/2 but they have a great reputation.

I think that for a lot of people the romance of the local classes in the northeast is very attractive, and if your only exposure to sailing has been WoodenBoat magazine I can see that happening, but there is a whole world of competitive sailing out there that most people who read WBM or who frequent here either don't know or don't care about. It is understandable. We look at sailing as a competitive sport, just like skiing can either be something fun to do in the winter before retiring to the comfort of the ski lodge, or it can be something that people get killed doing. After I get up from here I have to go lift weights for an hour, trying to get myself back into sailing shape.

If what interests you are Beetles there is nothing wrong with that, but Beetles are only one of hundreds of fun and interesting classes who get out there every saturday and knock heads. Take a look around.

Mickey Lake

[jtrieck]

I guess I was trying to compile a list of classes that have had success as pleasure-sailers after the racing interest died off.

[Steve Paskey]

I guess I was trying to compile a list of classes that have had success as pleasure-sailers after the racing interest died off.

If you frame it that way, it's a much more interesting question. As far as I know, most wooden racing classes have never been popular for pleasure-boating. Pleasure craft value comfort over speed, but for racing the priorities are reversed.

The Swampscott dory isn't a "class," but it has to be one of the most versatile small boat types ever designed. What other design has been happily used, at different times, for commercial fishing, spirited racing, and pleasure boating?

[Philip Maynard]

The 12 1/2 is a very expensive boat, (otherwise Herreshoff would not have built it) and that all by itself would make it rare.

[Thorne]

As far as wooden one-design racers that have become pleasure boats, the Sabot and Sabotina should be considered, along with some of the early Bullships.

Once a large class is fully replaced by a different design (like the Sabot by the El Toro), the "leftover" boats are, by definition, being sailed for pleasure and not racing. Ditto for the early wooden boats that get replaced by glass boats as the class matures/ages...the older wooden Blue Jays being a good example.

[rbgarr]

I guess I was trying to compile a list of classes that have had success as pleasure-sailers after the racing interest died off.

Here are some other boats once more actively raced which still have attractions as daysailers.

Indian
Town Class
Interlake
Jollyboat
Mercury (of California)
National One Design (a larger version of the Snipe)

[Hwyl]

Ensign has to top the list in the NE, nice boat and fglass

[StevenBauer]

Or the Highlander. Nice boats.

http://www.sailhighlander.org/

http://www.sailhighlander.org/images/sailing.jpg

[rbgarr]

Do you really like them Gareth? I think they are swine.:eek:

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Alcourt Sunfish, I should think. There are more Sunfish lying dormat under back porches than the total build for some of those other boats mentioned.

Moby Nick

[Bobcat]

Do you really like them Gareth? I think they are swine.:eek:

Highlanders? If so, why do you feel that way?

I had one years ago. It had some drawbacks, but I enjoyed sailing it

[Hwyl]

No he means Ensigns, they're not too bad, nothing compared to a Sheilds, nice big cockpit and a place to store your sangwiches.

[Bobcat]

No he means Ensigns, they're not too bad, nothing compared to a Sheilds, nice big cockpit and a place to store your sangwiches.


Glad to hear that. I would have been surprised that anyone was calling a Highlander swinish, although the reverse sheer bothers people.

[bamamick]

Highlanders are pretty darn fast, especially in lighter air. A big, roomy, version of the Flying Scot. Do they oilcan like a Scot does in chop?

The first year we went to Cleveland Race Week in the Dragons they had a Highlander fleet, but they weren't there the last couple of times.

We used to have a lot of Ensigns around here. Benz Faget from New Orleans has won their NA's many times, and a good friend of mine had one and raced it a lot. Seems like they squeezed it together a little more than I'd like but people do like them.

Mickey Lake

[johnw]

Most wooden Snipes still extant are used for daysailing, and mine's 12557, so there must be a lot of them.

[frank pedersen]

The Wayfarer class now is over 10,000. Ian Proctor designed the prototype with LOA at 16 ft. He then changed it to 15' 10" so it could be planked with two 8' sheets of plywood (with a butt joint). While it is a hot racing class in the U.K., in the U.S. it is more of a day sailer. I have owned one since 1969.

[JimConlin]

Ensign has to top the list in the NE, nice boat and fglass

I agree.
http://www.pearsoninfo.net/ensign/ensignc.jpg

[johnw]

Well, there's one Ensign on Lake Union in Seattle. There was one at Kittery Point, Maine, when I was a kid. There always seems to be one around, doesn't there?

[DGentry]

We had a whole fleet of Ensigns at my YC in Dallas, back in the day. They were sailed exclusively by the older crowd who just liked of go out and enjoy an evening sail or such.
I'd say they are fabulous low-key day sailors - with very comfortable and roomy cockpits, an enclosed space for a head, dry stowage and shelter from a sudden rainstorm, and enough strings to pull to keep things interesting.

My only negative thoughts:They are kind of slow, and have no self-bailing cockpits.

Still, they hardly qualify as the most numerous daysailor, not to mention I never saw one made of wood!

Dave

[Tom Lathrop]

Ensigns sail well although no one will mistake them for Etchells or Melges 24's. There are all the strings to pull to keep a crew busy and competition is high. Our local fleet is maned mostly by graduates of Lasers, Hobies, Lightnings and Etchells. Only rarely will one of the four crew be less than 70 and some are past 80. There is a brisk business in complete professional restoration of old Ensigns and old scuzzy ones can be bought fairly cheaply. What's not to like?

My favorite is still the Windmill.

[rbgarr]

Ensigns... sailed exclusively by the older crowd who just liked of go out and enjoy an evening sail or such.
I'd say they are fabulous low-key day sailors - with very comfortable and roomy cockpits, an enclosed space for a head, dry stowage and shelter from a sudden rainstorm, and enough strings to pull to keep things interesting.

My only negative thoughts:They are kind of slow, and have no self-bailing cockpits.

That niche is better filled by the Sonar, which is used by handicapped sailors, is swift (faster than my boat certainly), stable, self bailing and available for short money.

The local (dying) fleet of J22s is considering switching to Ensigns or Sonars because the sailors are aging. Please, please, please no Ensigns is my opinion though they are readily available as noted. They are painfully slow and even uglier than the Sonar.

End of highjack... sorry.:o

[Tom Lathrop]

Can't argue with you about the superiority of the Sonar, but the reality is that, for racing, the fleet is more important than the boat. As long as it's not a dog, of course.

[Woxbox]

Did I miss it, or was the Lightning overlooked in the discussion so far? Said by some to be the best combo daysailer/racer/beach cruiser ever devised. And lots of 'em built.

From the class website:
Design: Sparkman & Stephens, 1938
Over 15000 built
More than 500 fleets worldwide
Length: 19'0" (5.8m)
Beam: 6'6" (2m)

[johnw]

http://www.greatbayyachtclub.org/images/6_2008.jpg
Did I miss it, or was the Lightning overlooked in the discussion so far? Said by some to be the best combo daysailer/racer/beach cruiser ever devised. And lots of 'em built.

From the class website:
Design: Sparkman & Stephens, 1938
Over 15000 built
More than 500 fleets worldwide
Length: 19'0" (5.8m)
Beam: 6'6" (2m)


You missed it. I think about the 9th post.

15,000? More than twice as many Snipes. Of course, the Lightning may be a better picnic boat.

Hey, what about the MerryMac? I learned to sail in one of those. In southern Maine, they're fairly common. Wonderful family boat.

[jtrieck]

Thanks for all the responses - its been fun reading and I've had a great time surfing the internet for the designs y'all have mentioned that I didn't know!

JTSR