What are the pros and con of going back to a raw deck

[djn]

Hi All, I am starting to prepare to start work on the boat again. As you can see in the pic, the deck was coated with epoxy. A lot of it has popped up like sheets of yellow glass so I will be using a heat gun and sander to get it back down to wood again. so, what are the pros and cons of sanding it down and filling in the seams, then epoxying it again or leaving it bare wood? The epoxy looks good and keeps the water out but it is as slick as snoot when wet.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/djnagle/Shady%20Lady/foredeck.jpg

[Dale Genther]

First I'd want to know why epoxy was put on it. Was it an attempt at fixing a leaking deck? If you may have bigger problems. Second, are you certain it is epoxy? Most epoxies have no UV inhibitors in them so their life span when exposed to sunlight is very short. There is a product out there called Coelan that looks just like epoxy except it is a totally different animal. It is much more suited to covering a teak deck. Either epoxy or Coelan will be very slick when wet. Coelan has a glass bead grit that is added to it to add non-skid properties to it. You could do the same thing with epoxy except it won't last for the above reason.

So to repeat, do some further investigation into the why and what, before you tear into things. You may be opening a whole can of worms.

[Dale Genther]

I guess I never answered your question as far a raw teak is concerned. In my opinion raw teak makes a very good skid resistant and beautiful looking deck. That said I would never own one again. I have had several boats with them, I've done work on other peoples teak decks, I've saved other teak decks with Coelan and I've ripped up teak decks and replaced them with glass over ply. Depending upon condition, thickness, etc. recaulking/repairing may well be an exercise in futility. If they are not good shape under the "epoxy" your best chose may be the Coelan or the glass over ply option.

[djn]

Hi Dale, when the PO rebuilt the deck he replaced all the plywood then layed the teak, then epoxied the deck just to ensure a good seal, then varnished over that for the UV protection. Every couple years since then, he lightly sanded the deck and varnished it. I poked around every part of the underside of the plywood and it is sound. I will look into the Coelan with glass beads. I'd like to find someone local that has done that to see how non-skid it is. Cheers.

[Bob Cleek]

A teak deck? Bare or not at all! I can't imagine why anyone would put non-skid in a bright finish. Those guys that sell Coelan are pulling people's legs.

The "pro" to a bare deck is that it offers the non-skid properties that teak is famous for providing, and why teak is the premiere decking wood in the first place, and because a brightly finished deck, no matter how well done or full of non-skid material, just plain looks lubberly and reduces the value of the boat. If a newly laid deck needs to be coated in epoxy to keep from leaking, somebody didn't do the job right to begin with. I respectfully suggest the PO didn't know what he was doing when he opted to lay epoxy on his new deck!

Keep it bare and bleached (NO sanding!!!) and outlaw eating potato chips anywhere near it to avoid grease stains and you'll be glad you did.

[Dale Genther]

Bob, I agree that a teak deck in good condition should be left raw in order to get what is probably, wet or dry, the best non-skid you will find. BUT, not everyone can afford either the time or money to replace leaky teak deck with a new one. That is where Coelan or the glass over ply option comes into play. I have personally "saved" two boats with bad teak deck with Coelan and after several years they are both water tight. I'll admit it is not as nice looking as a"silver" raw teak deck, but the boats are saved and being used. On my own boat, I repaced the teak deck with dynal (sp?) over MDO plywood and think it is one of the best things I ever did for the boat. Not as yachty looking but more practical.

djn - If your deck is teak over ply I'd worry about the teak being thick enough to hold a proper caulked and payed seam. Also the Colean with glass beads is very agressive non-skid. I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time shuffleing about on my knees on it.

[djn]

The deck never did leak, he was just an epoxy freak. Before he painted the boat, he epoxyed the bare hull. Neither the hull or deck have glass on them, just the epoxy. I don't know how thick the teak is, but I will find out soon enough.

To your point Dale, my concern is that I will not have the time to properly care for a bare deck and it will end up leaking. It is sound now and I would like it to stay that way. Cheers.

[Dale Genther]

Djn - On my previous boat the PO had wooded the hull down and gave it three rolled on coats of West epoxy. I spent many hours grinding it down to bare wood so I could fair/prime/paint it as it should have been done. Have fun!!

[Bob Cleek]

If plywood was laid and the teak properly laid on top of it, the deck should be almost maintenance-free. Certainly WAY less demanding than any kind of coating on top of it. Just give it a light bleaching with a weak oxalic acid/water mixture maybe once every six months or so and it should stay pretty bright, like new wood (not "weathered grey"). Otherwise, just wash and hose off like the rest of the boat. Your concerns about maintaining it are probably related to information about traditionally laid teak decks, which do require more care. If the plywood is properly beded and waterproofed, the teak veneer isn't going anywhere. If the deck leaks, it won't be because the teak isn't slathered with some transparent goop, but because the plywood underlayment isn't doing its job.

[djn]

Hey Bob, reading your note, I realized that I should just scrape the goop off, redo the seams, sand it down and call it good. If, down the road I need, for what ever reason, I need to do the coating thing, I can.

It just feels good to get back to work on it after such a sucky year. Cheers.

[Jay Greer]

Guys, I must admit, that I am really in favor of a raw teak, fir, Port Orford Cedar or Alaskan Yellow Cedar deck. When properly laid, the deck should be good for forty to fifty years of use, providing the maintenance is done correctly. As posted by others, a raw wood deck affords good footing as well as good apprearance. Although I have given this information before, a deck that will last is made of quarter sawn staves nearly sguare in cross section that are laid over or not over a sub deck of rot resistant T&G planks (NOT PLYWOOD!) A membrane of canvas set in white lead or fiberglass can be placed on top of the subdeck to resist rot and leakage. If the top decking plankes are V grooved and caulked with cotton with seams that are primed with bee's wax and turpentine and payed with Jeffery's Marine Glue the deck will remain tight and water proof prividing that it is given a sea water washdown at least twice a week.
This is the way it has worked for over a hundred and fifty years. And, this is the way it still works, providing one is willing to take the time to do it right.
Jay

[Dale Genther]

Jay, I agree if you are not going to do it right you had better consider other options. Over the past twenty or so years I've looked at dozens of teak over ply decks and almost every one over 15 years old had issues. Usually once a year I get a call from an owner requesting a quote to "recaulk" his teak decks. Most often it is some 1960ish Cheoy Lee with teak over whatever decks that have been leaking for a long time. I tell him the truth and give him his options then I usually never hear from him again. There was one 33 footer that I had this discussion with about five years ago. Because it was a local boat I kept track of it. It was eventually abandoned at the marina we winter at. Two weeks ago they cut it up and sent it away in a dumpster. Unfortunatly I didn't have enough warning to get any of the old bronze hardware off of it. That all went away in the dumpster also. It could have been saved if the owner hadn't thought he knew better.

[Chris Gerkin]

Glad you are starting to work on the boat again, where are you keeping it this year? I have teak over ply and it has not leaked in 37 years, I use Deks on it.

[floatingkiwi]

The number one purpose of a deck is to brace the vessel. Something to look nice and to walk upon are not as important. I think plywood is the best material for this purpose aswell.Then whatever goes on top can be watertight and look nice.
I am new at this game but I read a lot.

[Jay Greer]

The number one purpose of a deck is to brace the vessel. Something to look nice and to walk upon are not as important. I think plywood is the best material for this purpose aswell.Then whatever goes on top can be watertight and look nice.
I am new at this game but I read a lot.
With all due respect and no one upsmanship implied, I beg to differ. Most builders and owners today are no longer aware of the working function of a properly laid deck. Once a deck is laid, caulked and payed, several mechanical forces come into play. The deck is litteraly forced against the covering boards that transfer tension to the self and sheer clamp. Strapping is also often used to resist certain forces as well as tension rods between the deck beams that are connected into the shelf. The entire structure is a stucture in tension that aids the hull in restisting twisting, racking and other forms of distortion in a seaway. A deck laid over plywood and not caulked but payed with a modern rubber compound, posseses none of these properties.
Jay

[djn]

Hi Chris, the boat is at Don Alts yard right now, but will be going back to Gary Schniders in a couple months. They are both very good about me working on the boat in their yards. Hopefully, I will be sailing this summer. Cheers.

[Willem]

a deck that will last is made of quarter sawn staves nearly sguare in cross section that are laid over or not over a sub deck of rot resistant T&G planks (NOT PLYWOOD!)

little question: what are "T&G" planks?

[Dan McCosh]

little question: what are "T&G" planks?

Tongue and groove.

[djn]

I think that means toung and groove (sp).

[Willem]

Thanks. :-)

[Windsong]

What's the take on canvas over felt laid in white lead on a watertight properly laid T&G VG Doug Fir subdeck on White Oak deck beams. Be sure to use copper nails, tacks or staples to secure the canvas. After it all is nice and tight pour boiling hot water over it and paint it while its wet. Canvas feels good on the bare feet and it really makes the bright work pop. Plus it can be laid in a day.
Good Luck
Lars

[Jay Greer]

What's the take on canvas over felt laid in white lead on a watertight properly laid T&G VG Doug Fir subdeck on White Oak deck beams. Be sure to use copper nails, tacks or staples to secure the canvas. After it all is nice and tight pour boiling hot water over it and paint it while its wet. Canvas feels good on the bare feet and it really makes the bright work pop. Plus it can be laid in a day.
Good Luck
Lars
Be sure to use raw canvas that is not Sanforized,(pre-shrunk)
Jay

[pcford]

What's the take on canvas over felt laid in white lead on a watertight properly laid T&G VG Doug Fir subdeck on White Oak deck beams. Be sure to use copper nails, tacks or staples to secure the canvas. After it all is nice and tight pour boiling hot water over it and paint it while its wet. Canvas feels good on the bare feet and it really makes the bright work pop. Plus it can be laid in a day.
Good Luck
Lars

Does not have to be boiling water. Does not have to be even hot.