insulated wire for stitch and glue?

[flatbottom]

I'm sure this has been asked but I can't get the search function to work.

I drew up a kayak using Huls just to see if the program works. I have 18G thermostat wire on hand for stitching the panels together. Any reason I would need to remove the plastic insulation?

[JimD]

So you could make smaller holes in the panels?
Edited to add: Just kidding. Removing wire insulation sounds like an awful lot of work.

[ 06-30-2005, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: JimD ]

[Bruce Hooke]

If you are going to epoxy over the wire and then try to yank the wire out I suspect you'll have a hard time if the wire has insulation on it. On the other hand, my perferred techinque is to start by putting epoxy between the wires in enough places to tack the panels together. Then, when that cures I can remove the wires before they are embedded in epoxy. Going that route, the only issue with insulation that I can think of is whether it will be harder to securely twist the wire ends together, which you can determine via experimentation...

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Depends on the kind of insulation.

Make a fire, throw on a trial piece of wire, recover the remains from the ashes.

Sometimes it works well, sometimes it don't.

[RodB]

The plastic insulation will not allow you to cinch up the seams as tight because the plastic has "give" to it... and I bet the wire will not stay as tight...besides how easy is it going to be to get all of the insulation out of the epoxy... A roll of tie wire is about $3.00 at any hardware store... why ask for any complications?

rb

[ 06-30-2005, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

I've played around using different wire on 3 small boats. But the 18ga copper that was recommended in all the books was always the best. Needed only small holes. Would hold whatever tension I set. Was strong enough to force twists and bends into recalcitrent planks. Could be tightened and loosened numerous times before it broke.
When I couldn't get 18ga. I tried 20ga. and it broke too easily. I tried 16 ga. and it wouldn't tighten into small enough loops. I tried iron stovepipe wire and even some brass wire I found at work. Both were a waste of time.
When assembling hulls without a form or strongback you have to futz around with the ties to get the shape right. The ability of the ties to stay the way you put them is important. If something shifts or slips and it's not caught before glue up the hull could be junk. So I wouldn't mess with something that isn't tried and true.
The guys who thought up S&G probably went thru' all the possibilities a long time ago.
Spend a couple of bucks and get a spool of 18GA. COPPER. You will not regret it.
Charlie

[RodB]

I agree with Chuck.

Hey Chuck,

About three years ago when starting my S&G skiff, it was recommended that I use plain old steel tie wire for stitching...and thats what I used. In retrospect, I think I had a few break when trying to twist them tighter or readjusting. As I became more proficient at tightening them I had less and less problems...but I didn't have that much of a problem if I was careful. Overall the waxed steel tie wire worked fine but it definitely was not as flexable as the 18 gauge copper you describe using. I always knew I had to use proper technique for tightening/twisting or I could get a break. I will go with copper the next time just to achieve more flexability and less breaks.

RB

[ 06-30-2005, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[flatbottom]

I see what you mean by not staying tight....Some of the wires in high stress areas were pulling loose. I
used a propane torch and put just enough heat on the twists to melt the insulation, they are staying tight now..
Bare 18g copper wire is tough to find around these parts. Not even the electrical supply houses stock it.

[RodB]

Plain old steel tie wire is everywhere and costs about $3.00 for a 50 ft roll...it works fine, just coat it with Johnson's paste wax and stitch away.

RB

[ssor]

Buy a length of ten gage stranded and with a sharp knife strip the insulation by slicing off a section. Twenty feet of stranded will yield all the wire you need. Even you friendly neighborhood electrician will cheerfully give you that much in short pieces.

[Andrew S/Y Rocquette]

plastic wire ties....?

[Bruce Hooke]

Originally posted by Andrew S/Y Rocquette:
plastic wire ties....?Much harder to adjust...

[hikingchrs]

Originally posted by Andrew S/Y Rocquette:
plastic wire ties....?Also holes too big more expensive... I will add that you can not always take out all of your stiches I left some in both boats I built so you should use copper. 18ga wire does not look to bad threw varnish but I think red or black insulation halo around 18ga would look silly.
Chris

[videoguy]

To remove the copper wires just untwist them grab one end with plyers and heat the other end with a propane torch for a few seconds they will pull right out. smile.gif smile.gif ...Phil

[ion barnes]

It may be the result of the wire gauge more the the load that causes the wire to unwind. I have used insulated wire from florescent ballasts without problems. Try doubling up on the wire if its a tough pull.

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by flatbottom:

Bare 18g copper wire is tough to find around these parts. Not even the electrical supply houses stock it.Check farm supply places: it's used in "electric fence" applications.

Quick way to get a wire out: short a 12 V battery across it momentarily. The heat will melt the epoxy.