New dory from CLC

[cmcgovern]

http://www.clcboats.com/boatbuilding_classes/77.html
Looks like CLC will be offering a kit for this 17 foot dory. I emailed John Harris and he estimates it will come out in May. I for one am excited. None of their other boats match me quite right...

[JimD]

http://www.clcboats.com/images/photos/boats/dory/CLC-Dory-Sailplan.jpg


http://www.clcboats.com/images/photos/boats/dory/CLC-17-foot-Dory.jpg

I like looking at pictures :)

[Dave Davis]

The IYRS website says $1250 for the kit and additional for instruction if you do it with them in the class. About half way down the link:

http://iyrs.org/DefaultPermissions/2009CECoursesBoatbuilding/tabid/547/Default.aspx

[cmcgovern]

I'm guessing, though, that the spars/sail kit will be extra, like around 800 more dollars. That's based on looking at their other sail boats.

[Chip-skiff]

Thats very appealing, there are several companies selling CLC kits here in Australia.
Thanks again.
Rob J.

Looks like a craft you could handle alone, or get a mate or two in for a go at the fishery. Thought about you when I saw the thread— and there you are, up like Jacky!

Chip

[mcdenny]

Just a quick plug for CLC kits. (no affiliation) I've built five of their kayaks, one with a group of high school kids. They are well thought out and all the parts fit.

Panel shapes are critical with stitch & glue. Getting them already cut out exactly right is a big plus, especially for a beginning boat builder.

[JimConlin]

I hope that the CLC dory's bottom is of something beefier than 6mm. okoume. 6mm. okoume is fine for a kayak or a dinghy, but there's a limit.

[James McMullen]

That looks like a pretty boat and should be a perfect candidate for CLC's lapstitch building process. I've built their Eastport Pram from a kit and thought it was very well thought out--except for the hideous sail rig. This dory seems to fill a niche that has been missing for easy-to-build sail & oar boats.

[neilm]

Wow! I like it. He finally designed a dory longer than two sheets of plywood. I don't care much for the dagger board though. A dagger board angled back like that will never lift up if you hit something. I'd angle it forward or replace with a center board.

Neil

[Steve Paskey]

Nice-looking dory. I built one of CLC's Skerrys and was very impressed with the kit. Well-made parts, clear instructions, and everything fit. If this had been available, I probably would have built it instead.


I hope that the CLC dory's bottom is of something beefier than 6mm. okoume. 6mm. okoume is fine for a kayak or a dinghy, but there's a limit.

The Skerry (a 15-footer) uses 9 mm ply for the bottom. I would assume that's true for the dory as well.

[Ben Fuller]

Wow! I like it. He finally designed a dory longer than two sheets of plywood. I don't care much for the dagger board though. A dagger board angled back like that will never lift up if you hit something. I'd angle it forward or replace with a center board.

Neil


Daggerboards also take up much less space, are generally more efficient and don't present you with the significant drag penalty of a long trunk not to mention the structural problem. Lasers, Sunfish, etc. all use them. The tiller nut has to pull it up, it's true and some tiller nuts are incapable of doing so. If you want a dagger board to kick up a little you slope the forward head ledge and straigten the after one. In more years than I care to post driving fast dagger board boats, I have yet to hear of one damaging the trunk when hitting something hard. The same thing happens as when you hit something with a keel. You stop and you have a ding to repair. I wonder though if CLC puts filler blocks in their kits for dagger board boats, these fill the trunk when rowing.

[Ron Paro]

During the first season of sailing my CLC Jimmy Skiff (http://jimmyskiff.blogspot.com), I managed to find a large submerged rock with the bottom 6 inches or so of the dagger board, while sailing at about four knots. It made a loud bang, and the boat stopped very quickly. After I regained my seating position and a little composure, I surveyed the damage, expecting to have torn the trunk from the hull.

I was pleasantly surprised to find that I only had a nickel-size ding in the trailing edge of the dagger board and the bolt which attach's the trunk to the center thwart had partially pulled loose. Both very easy to repair. When I did the repair, I also added some medium density foam padding in the trunk, on the aft end.

From what I have seen of this dory design so far, I think it looks like a nice light-weight beach cruiser.

CLC does not include dagger trunk plugs with the kits, but it is a good idea to make one to reduce turbulence while rowing and prevent spashing down your back when you pull hard on the oars.

[Spence]

http://www.clcboats.com/boatbuilding_classes/77.html
Looks like CLC will be offering a kit for this 17 foot dory. I emailed John Harris and he estimates it will come out in May. I for one am excited. None of their other boats match me quite right...

It's basically an old type Swamscott.

Spence

[Daniel Noyes]

Wow I think this is the most authentic looking modern dory design I have seen. The complaint I have with most designs for plywood is the stem is more vertical and the transom is layed back, the opposite of historic dory design. This CLC boat looks good.
As Spence points out I would likely build a historic design, rather than one that looks old, but for someone dead set on a kit build this should be great.
2 questions, why so much mast rake, it looks more like a skipjack than a dory and reduces crew head room?
What holds the mast up? stays? socket at seat level (wich is not really high enough for good leverage) or a partners at the rail not shown on design?
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com (http://dansdories.googlepages.com/)

[Todd Bradshaw]

Dan, On a fairly long boom like this boat has, raking the mast will tend to help keep the tail of the boom out of the water when heeled, since the rake causes the boom's aft end to raise a bit as you ease the sail out. There are times when it may be helpful, but it isn't absolutely critical and the rigs also will work (and are sometimes seen with) a lot less rake. For those more vertically inclined, I suspect it wouldn't be too difficult to plumb the mast up quite a bit on this boat. I wouldn't generally go perfectly plumb as it tends to create a weird optical illusion on these Leg-O-Muttons that always looks like your mast is leaning forward, but you could go with a very slight rake.

For example, I borrowed some proportions from a photo of a less-raked dory that is owned by a forumite and which was posted a while back. I saved the picture because it just seemed like an absolutely elegant profile. With a bit of jib reshaping, it's possible to adapt that basic profile to this boat, keep the sail area the same as the CLC rig (65 sq. ft.) and the combined CE in the same spot, fore and aft, to maintain the balance. The gooseneck height is the same, but the new CE is actually 3.5" lower. The headstay tang, mast partners and step would require small adjustments to use the new rig, but not much. To me, it's a prettier profile.

http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/!CLC%2065%20.jpg

I also kind of wonder whether the boat might be a bit underpowered. We sometimes put 65 sq. ft. on 17' canoes. With a slightly more drastic relocation of the headstay tang, it would be possible to boost the same basic rig up to 75 sq. ft. The combined CE only moved 1.8" forward and .4" upward from the original rig, which probably won't even be noticable. Without doing any calculations or testing, it just strikes me that this rig looks more in proportion with the size of the hull.

http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/!CLC%2075.jpg

[johngsandusky]

My 18'8" dory carries about 110 sqft, sometimes I wouldn't mind a bit more.
My Melonseed has the traditional curved daggerboard, but made of UHMWPE, a strong slippery plastic. It pops up enough when we hit a sandbar or claybank. The boat stops, the board rises, I pull it up farther and pin it, we sail off.

[TerryLL]

My initial thoughts is that CLC probably has a big winner with this design. It's a bit beamier than traditional Swampscotts of this length, especially at the waterline, which will help the sailing performance. The three rowing stations are nicely set up for rowing single or double. Freeboard and sheer seem reduced over more trad designs, which will aid performance, but might result in a wetter boat in rough conditions. Built light, it would be very corky with that added beam.

Don't know what-all comes in a CLC kit, but if you get everything you need, then $1250 seems like a bargain to me.

[Ben Fuller]

Boom at an angle has some other nice features like clearing your head and still letting you have a low tack. I recall once talking to John that he does not power his sailing boats up as much as he could as many of the builders have not much sailing experience. John himself is an ex high performance dinghy racer so knows how to do it. That said, the dory is not the most stable sailing platform out there so conservatism on the sail might not be bad. Shrouds will make the jib set better and I figure that they might be in the plans. Simple rope ones will do for a low tension rig like this.

[James McMullen]

I have noticed myself that many of the CLC boats are <ahem> lightly canvassed. . . .

I think that it is indeed a CYA thing by the kit manufacturer. We're going to add at least 20% sail area to my buddy Nathan's Skerry--plus some reef points, of course, to bring it down again when necessary.

[jon_m_campbell]

I'm looking for a project for a first time builder and am considering a dory like this, with the same leg-o-mutton rig, and had a couple of questions.

Is there any way to reef this rig? Or do you switch to oars right away when the wind becomes too strong?

Does anyone ever use a lug rig on dories?

[TerryLL]

Is there any way to reef this rig? Or do you switch to oars right away when the wind becomes too strong?

Does anyone ever use a lug rig on dories?

Welcome to the forum. The answers to your questions are yes and yes.

The leg-o'-mutton rig common on sailing dories can be reefed, but not easily, and many of the historic boats sporting this rig did not have reef points.

Practically every sail plan under the sun has been used at one time or another on dories, including the lug rig. A very common rig seen on historic boats of this type is the loose-footed sprit. It's very easily shortened down and the mast is usually shorter than the boat for easy storage.

[jon_m_campbell]

Thanks for the welcome. This looks like a great forum.

How is the reef set in a leg-o-mutton rig? It looks like the luff is lashed to the mast. And there is no main halyard. So the sail can't be lowered to tie reef lines to the boom.

Is the boom raised? This doesn't seem very stable.

[TerryLL]

Typical row of reef points parallel to the foot. There is a main halyard, and the mast lashings are loose, so the sail slides down the mast quite easily. I'll try to find you a pic.

[TerryLL]

Here's a pic of a Beachomber Alpha dory (21 feet) posted by a forumite on another thread. If you look carefully you can just see a row of reef points about two feet above the boom.

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL405/8230927/15385054/293702404.jpg

[jon_m_campbell]

thanks for that pic. that helps. even with being lashed to the mast, it must still be possible to lower the sail enough to get that reef line in.

i'm glad to know that. i want to be able to reduce sail in stronger winds, but i really like the look of the alpha rig with the dory; now i can stick with it.

[Todd Bradshaw]

The trick is often making sure that you have a means to temporarily work some slack into the lower lashings on the mast as you lower the sail. This is common on any sail with a tack angle (luff angle to foot angle) which is less than 90 degrees. Since the distance between the reef tack ring and the clew ring on these sails is shorter than the tack-to-clew distance along the foot, it will bind on the mast if you just release the halyard and try to pull the sail downward. You need to be able to ease the lashings near the reef tack so that that part of the luff can temporarily pull back, away from the mast, as the sail is being raised or lowered. Once it's in position, you can snug up the lacing again and everything is fine. Some mast lacing patterns allow more slack than others do and may take care of the problem by themselves. Others may need some sort of quick adjustability. Mast Hoops or individual robands generally present a serious binding problem in this situation (as do boltropes or slugs/slides in slotted masts or tracks). For these, you have to add a line called a jack-line which temporarily allows the sail luff to move back away from the hoops/slugs/slides.

[jon_m_campbell]

Thanks Todd. It seemed like binding might be an issue. Is there a clean way to quickly get the necessary slack in the lashing, other than maybe untying the lower endand working some extra line the whole way up the mast?

[Todd Bradshaw]

Some of the methods like this one will develop substantially more slack as you ease halyard tension than the typical spiral type of lacing or hitching will. They also don't generally snug the sail up tight against the mast until it's reached full height when raising sail (making the use of a halyard system much more practical for a laced-on luff). Whether or not they will automatically give you enough slack to be able to ease the halyard and pull the sail all the way down into a reefed position without easing the lace line is something you'll need to experiment with. The farther your tack angle is from 90 degrees, the more slack the line needs. You will also likely need to snug up the line and cleat or tie it off, once the sail is reefed, but at least the process is less of a battle than trying to pull down a spiral-laced sail.

http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/f82ef325.jpg

[Emma56]

Honey Bunny

[jon_m_campbell]

Thanks again Todd. That makes sense that fewer turns around the mast, coupled with the extra length in between windings, would tend to sieze less. When I get to that point, I'll play with this and work it out. I think I'll begin lofting this weekend - wish me luck.