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capt jake
03-10-2002, 11:43 PM
A freind out my past called tonight. He has an 18' Eel (I think that's a canoe yawl) that he wants to sell. The stems and ribs are placed, and the planking has just started. steam bent Oak ribs about every 6" as he descibed it. Says he has all of the lumber for the planking as well. We didn't discuss price, I'll see it in a week or so.

Am I trying to bite off more than I can chew? Is this gonna take me forever, or is the 'hard' part done? Then there is the delema of moving it to my 'shop'!
Thoughts? :D

Meerkat
03-11-2002, 12:03 AM
Oh captain, my captain - that's entirely too much for you to cope with!

What did you say this guy's phone number was? ;)

All you have left to do is planking, paying the seams, decking, cabin and interior, painting and varnishing, sails and rigging? Gee, you could be sailing this summer - heh.

Seriously, I've heard that the hull is 1/3 of the cost and 25% of the work of finishing a boat. Dunno the truth of that.

Canoe Yawls are luuuvly boats though!

capt jake
03-11-2002, 12:10 AM
Hey, Meercat, If don't buy it, I'll let you know. It is located in Tacoma. Now ya got me thinkin'! Guess I better finish those two guitars first, to clear out the shop. :D

NormMessinger
03-11-2002, 08:30 AM
Eel was high on my list of dream machines. None of us can answer the question for you unless we know you better. Are you married, do you have kids, do you have a job that lets you off after a normal 40 hrs, do you want to do it, etc etc. I built an airplane (the boats came after retirement so they don't count.) while still employeed but the bag worms ate the landscaping, the roof leaked a couple of times and ... You can do it if you want to.

--Norm

ken mcclure
03-11-2002, 09:35 AM
Is it the William Garden EEL? How is he planking - strip plank? carvel?

If it is, it's a good boat. I have the plans and almost started building until I spotted the design I'm building now. I still plan on building one.

If he has done good work so far and you like the design I'd say go for it. I'd pay the cost of the plans plus the cost of the materials that go with it plus whatever you two agree to as the value of the work he's already done.

ken mcclure
03-11-2002, 09:44 AM
Oh, and if it is Garden's Eel, it should look like this:
http://home.adelphia.net/~kwmcclure/images/cockateel3.jpg
http://home.adelphia.net/~kwmcclure/images/cockateel4.jpg

Roger Stouff
03-11-2002, 12:14 PM
Like...wow. Who's is that?

ken mcclure
03-11-2002, 01:37 PM
Boat name's Cockateel and belongs to someone in Australia, I think.

capt jake
03-11-2002, 02:00 PM
That looks like what he described. I can't wait to go see it now.

Meerkat
03-11-2002, 07:35 PM
Eel was either an open boat or had a small cuddy as shown. I think there's an open Eel for sale in the back of WB #165 and there might be a cabined version in Launchings in the same issue.

Almost stuck my foot in it and said that Eel was a George Holmes design, but that was Ethel (no Merman jokes please!). Have a look at http://www.campionboats.co.uk/ and scroll down and click on [Sail - George Holmes and Canoe Yawls]. Might also find it interesting to click on [Sail - Lille] too.

I also am quite partial to canoe yawls and double-enders in general. Double-entendres are fun too :cool:

Meerkat
03-11-2002, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by kwmcclure:
Is it the William Garden EEL? How is he planking - strip plank? carvel?

If it is, it's a good boat. I have the plans and almost started building until I spotted the design I'm building now. I still plan on building one.

If he has done good work so far and you like the design I'd say go for it. I'd pay the cost of the plans plus the cost of the materials that go with it plus whatever you two agree to as the value of the work he's already done.How much where your plans? Where does one find Eel plans?

TR
03-11-2002, 08:25 PM
Meerkat;

Mr. Garden's plans for "Eel" are currently $100.00 from WoodenBoat. Plan number 90. Go for it! All the best

garland reese
03-11-2002, 09:10 PM
I recently had the chance to get a look at an Eel. Robert Albers, a Dallas area boatbuilder, built himself a cold molded Eel five years ago (give or take). He recently sold her to a guy in CO. Before he delivered her, I got the chance to look her over. My family and I sat in her cockpit and checked out her little cuddy cabin. It was windy and cold that day, or we might well have gotten a sail! The Eel is a beautiful little boat. I have admired her for a good while now and keep coming back to the design. After seeing "Glory", I do believe this is the boat for us. There is a picture of an new Eel that was launched recently, in the "Launchings" section of the newest WB. There was also a picture of Roger Dahlberg's Eel a couple issues back. Both Mr. Dahlberg and Mr. Albers made a few modifications to the design to make her more to their liking. Mr. Albers re-did the main to shorten the boom and gunter gaff (???) so that it would clear the mizzen, and added a bit more ballast. I think this brought his boat's weight real close to the specs for a carvel boat, since the cold molded boats are lighter. Stepping aboard was very nice......not nearly as tender as I expected. He installed a small electric auxilliary too. She is finished bright aboe the waterline and has teak decks.........stunning little lady indeed! If I could get pictures to post, I'd post Mr. Alberg's "Glory" from his website.....I can't drive this computer too well though. I think his pictures on the web were prior to his modification of the mainsail.

Mr. Dahlberg made a "Bolgeresque" type rudder for his (like those on chebacco or Bobcat). The designed rudder is a lift up type, which does seem a bit contradictary to her otherwise very shallow draft (the rudder lifts up into a slot when beaching which disables any function of turning with it once you lift it into the slot).
Anyway...I think you'll be in good company, should you choose to finish this Eel.

Does anyone know any of the details of the strip planked Eel at Duck Flats.....the one shown above. As you can see, this boat has a modified rudder as well.
Good Luck.......She is lovely. I hope to build her too someday (maybe glued-lapstrake).
Garland

Roger Stouff
03-11-2002, 09:48 PM
What's the benefit of the yawl rig? Remember, I'm a total novice about sailing... :(

Meerkat
03-12-2002, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Roger Stouff:
What's the benefit of the yawl rig? Remember, I'm a total novice about sailing... :( You realize that rig preferences are a matter of religion? :D

Yawls and ketch's (and schooners?) best point of sail is a broad reach 'tis said - across the wind you get maximum exposure of all the sails. I can't see much problem with beating either unless turbulance of the wind coming off the foreward sails interferes with the mizzen. Supposedly the mizzen can shadow the main or the jib while running (i've read disputes of this), so it ends up not being very useful. When running the mizzen might also tend to push the stern around, sort of like rear-wheel drive in snow or sand, since the applied force is aft of the center of effort.

A couple of good things about yawls: you can drop the main and still have a balanced rig with just the jib and mizzen. Another nice thing is that you can go backwards in a Yawl by backing the mizzen. Nice for getting out of the "driveway" ;)

Jamie Hascall
03-13-2002, 08:46 PM
Peter Donahoe who built my boat Victoria (also a Wm. Garden double ender) sold her and built an Eel for himself. They're a great little boat! Most of the ones I've seen have been strip planked but I can see nothing wrong with planking one.

Jamie

Roger Stouff
03-14-2002, 12:17 AM
Meerkat,
Clear as bayou water. :( Thanks though, really. I just gotta go look up some of those terms...

One day I'll be a sailor. One day I'll be a sailor. One day I'll... (and the chant continues as he turns off the computer and goes to bed)

capt jake
04-06-2002, 08:54 PM
OK, I viewed the Eel. The ribs are bent (white Oak) and about 1 foot of cedar strips are layed against the keel batten. Any approximation or what it is worth? He has does not have the plans but assures me it is an Eel (which it appears to be). I don't want to pay more than it is worth. He has all of the cedar and shaper bits to complete the hull. It has been sitting for a few years (under cover in a heated shop).
Thanks,
Jake

ken mcclure
04-06-2002, 11:19 PM
It's worth the cost of the plans, the cost of materials that are supplied and the cost of any tooling he'll provide. Add, if you wish, for the work that has already gone into making the molds and getting the project started.

Keep in mind the fact that you could buy the plans and get it to where it is in not too much time on your own. I had planned to do mine mahogany over oak. But the cedar sure would smell nice!!!!!!!

ken mcclure
04-06-2002, 11:21 PM
Whoops! I just re-read your last post ... he does not have the plans? Hmmmm.

I'd say just call WoodenBoat, give them the credit card number and order the plans. Why miss out on any of the fun? Start one from the ground up.

capt jake
04-18-2002, 07:18 PM
I revisited this boat the other day. It is Cedar stripped (about 1/2") with a mild B&C. He started the stripping from the keel line down. Appears that the 'football' was designed to account for the curvature (ie, no cheater strips).
1 - Cedar strip isn't per teh design, is it?
2 - What about startin the stripping from the keel? Maybe it is OK, just seems odd to me.
Still trying to pin him down on a price.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Jake

Bruce Hooke
04-18-2002, 09:37 PM
Just off the top of my head, and as a reference point to work from, it sounds to me like he's got maybe 20% of the work done on the boat. So, that leaves 80% for you to do.

Given that most of the work is still to be done I would encourage you to step back and say, if this boat was not available would I chose to start building it now on my own? If this is really just the right boat for you and if you are eager to launch into a major boatbuilding project then this is potentially a great opportunity, asssuming the work done to date has been done well, but if you're not committed to the project (and if the other people in your life aren't willing to tolerate it) this could quickly become a huge weight around your neck. If you like the idea then you might want to try to sit down and work out how much time and money it will take to finish the project so that you go into it with your eyes open, so to speak.

On the more detailed end, why doesn't he have the plans? I hope the work done to date was all done to the plans. If not there are likely to be some major problems...

ken mcclure
04-19-2002, 08:20 AM
Cedar strip should work ok. In the plans, Garden recommends sheathing for the strip-planked version anyway.

This boat is complex enough that there is no way you can build her without plans.

I still say buy the plans and start from scratch. There's not that much work done. You'll always wonder, if you don't, whether everything is as it should be.