Bolger Lite Scooner or Bolger Folding Schooner

[Tom Hoffman]

I am looking for a new project this spring.

I am curious who out there has built either of these two boats and actively use them.

They seem very uncomplicated to build and some what reasonable in price. My existing Whtehall 20' Trailer would work well for the lite scooner and would have to be modified for the Folding schooner.

Has any one built the Flolding schooner in a non folding trailerable boat? My thought would be to build it in one hull and forget the idea of folding up. I have room for the boat unfolded. Would it be too hard to unload a boat of that length down a boat ramp?

These are idle questions of a bored mind with serious cabin fever.

Cheers....:D:D:D

[James McMullen]

I built the Light Schooner. It took an irritatingly long time to rig and unrig as a trailer sailor, required me to have crew every time I wanted to go for a sail, and had unpleasant handling characteristics in rough water. On the plus side, it was incredibly easy to build and interesting to look at. . . .though better from a distance where the crudeness of the hullform wasn't so glaring.

I don't want another one, but if you have lots of willing crewmembers and maybe a place on a lake where you won't have to take her down and set her up each time you want to go sailing you might enjoy her.
http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/22447/2036779490088484686S500x500Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2036779490088484686DhbUnG)

http://inlinethumb14.webshots.com/4557/2934191400088484686S500x500Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2934191400088484686cMECzc)

http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/7022/2378482110088484686S500x500Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2378482110088484686IkYBTS)

[johngsandusky]

A friend built one, I've sailed with him. They are fun, but require crew, both for ballast and sail handling.

[OregonMike]

I am just finishing a Bolger Light Schooner (currently delayed by cold weather). It has been a fast and fun build. Looks cool too.

It does need crew. I did a basic engineering review on it and found out that with all 266 square feet of sail out and a fifteen knot wind that four hundred pounds of crew hanging on the windward rail will not be physically able to keep the boat from capsizing (ignoring the depowering effect of the heel angle on the sails).

On the other hand, I have a large number of friends and nieghbors who have seen me make in the driveway and expressed interest in sailing it with me, although not on the maiden voyage. So perhaps crew will not be problem. Definitely not a boat for someone who likes to sail for solitude.

[ion barnes]

A chunk of ballast on the bottom of the dagger board or make the board out of plate steel (need a topping lift to pull it up, perhaps) and have two sets of reefing points sewn into the sails. They are meant to help you manage the sail area in different weather conditions. An item that is sadly overlooked.

I have a model of the light schooner that I look at whenever I need to dream. I agree that its a little slab sided and all. I would put some camber into the deck and fudge the sheer line a little. Forget the outboard motor well.

[Plumbtex]

IIRC; in addition to the light and folding scooners, Bolger also designed a similar single handed scooner.

[James McMullen]

A chunk of ballast on the bottom of the dagger board or make the board out of plate steel (need a topping lift to pull it up, perhaps)

For god's sake, don't do any of those things! The daggerboard is unmanageable enough as it is and the structure of the hull and the daggerboard case would need to be beefed up tremendously to handle the strain. Couple that with the fact that this is a low sided, sharpie-type hull with huge open cockpits means that this is not now and never will be a self-righting boat without other huge modifications. Adding hundreds of pounds of static weight will do nothing but slash your performance--this boat wants active ballast in the form of crew.

Trying to out-think Bolger other than on terms of aesthetics is generally a losing proposition. Look at how different the proportions are on his ballasted sharpies compared to this one that is designed to be unballasted. He has a schooner design that is designed to have a ballasted board also, called the Singlehanded Schooner. If you want a ballasted version of this sort of boat, build that one instead.

[TimmS]

I have a large number of friends and nieghbors who have seen me make in the driveway and expressed interest in sailing it with me, although not on the maiden voyage.

Love it! I get that kind of comment all the time :) Why do people doubt whether a wooden boat will float????

[OregonMike]

I bought the plans for the singlehanded schooner when deciding whether to build the light schooner or the singlehanded schooner. I chose to build the light schooner.

The problem with the singlehanded schooner is that the daggerboard has 106 pounds of lead ballast on the end of a four foot long foot wide dagger board. I tried to imagine heaving around that board while trying to rig and unrig the boat, especially because it cannot be placed home until the boat is floating. I am fairly young and strong, but #125 is heavy. The idea did not appeal.

Also, the singlehanded schooner has no real space to put passengers. It does have some room up in the forecockpit, but it is rather cramped for a person.

The light schooner, on the other hand, has two large cockpits, both over six feet long. This is tons of area for your live ballast and cooler. It is also fun lounging area for your crew while anchored and enjoying cold beverages.

[Bobcat]

I too have plans for the singlehanded schooner. It occured to me that you could make two dagger boards. One to plan with 100 pounds of lead, the other substantially lighter. The lighter one may well serve the purpose under most conditions. I would be sailing the boat off a dolly on Lake Washington and wrestling with the heavy board would be too much when sailing off a beach. (Actually, sailing onto the beach: imagine landing a schooner and pulling up -- probably with a tackle -- a 125 pound dagger board as you head into the beach...)

[ion barnes]

I was not implying hundreds of pounds but I guess it could be, if the same mind would over look reef points too

Lets face it; would you drive a car that only had stop and flat out go? Reef points are your change gears depending on the wind.

If you are sailing single handed, you may very well be happy with a little influence from a bit of weight down below.

[James McMullen]

For the Light Schooner:

1st reef: take in the jib and sail as a cat-schooner
2nd reef: take a reef in the main, sail as cat-schooner
3rd reef: strike either the fores'l or the main and sail for the nearest shelter.
4th reef: take down all the sails, aim for a soft spot on the shore under bare poles.

[Bobcat]

I was not implying hundreds of pounds but I guess it could be, if the same mind would over look reef points too

Lets face it; would you drive a car that only had stop and flat out go? Reef points are your change gears depending on the wind.

If you are sailing single handed, you may very well be happy with a little influence from a bit of weight down below.

Having sailed an over canvassed light boat, I agree that reefing is your friend.

The weight in the dagger board would be nice, but not if it prevents you from using the boat. Compromises and all, after all.

[cscooke]

I built the folding schooner maybe ten years ago, still have it, but it didn't get wet this year. It takes a few people to unfold the thing, one or two more to fold it back. If we show up back at the ramp too late in the day, it can be a problem, because we rely on bystanders to help fold. We can do it, but it's pretty nerve-racking. I decided to build the boat because of it's weirdness. The suggestion to build an un-folding version isn't as appealing. I'd go for a real sharpie instead. (The folding schooner is a sort of compromised sharpie). Remember that this is a thirty-one foot boat, after all, and could be a challenge to trailer to the water.

[johnw]

Ballasted centerboards are kind of a pain, but ballasted daggerboards are about the worst idea ever. I've got the original daggerboard for my Snipe, 80 lb. of steel, and I would never use it. The aluminum board is heavy enough. A wood board is much better. For one thing, when it goes in the drink, you can get it back. Every time a Snipe sailor capsizes without the board tied in, they loose a $400 piece of equipment.

[wtarzia]

Other folding options exist though they want more work. Fold in the ends. 15 foot center section and two 7 foot ends. These might be foldable with one person. Also, the part of the boat that needs to be strongest (the middle) is left strongest (though, really, bolts are probably stronger than any wood you will be bolting, anywhere on the boat, as colleagues have reminded me).

I tried the folding option once when I had to -- building and storing a small boat in an apartment, in a place that forbid parking trailers. I had no choice. So, I built a folding (or bolt-up) outrigger canoe, minimally wanting of storage. A great idea when needed -- it was have this boat or no boat. Set-up time sucked, though.

Now that I have a garage, I can store a 20 foot boat on a trailer. Great. But now that I have been sailing a 16 foot outrigger (big hull built in one piece) I of course want a bigger one! No room in my yard to park outside (city neighborhood, long narrow yard and houses too close together to get trailer out back). Now what? I can build a more than 20-foot boat and fold in one end to keep in garage and make trailering easier. Set up time perhaps not too bad when you can fold and secure while on trailer -- 5 minutes? Same possibility for a monohull boat though perhaps best to make the lighter bow the fold-back section for soloing. -- Wade