Something cheap.

[Michael Beckman]

Well, I've got a box full of tools and nothing to do with them. So I'm thinking I should build a boat, since my last project never actually happened. I should have about $500 to work with soon. Maybe a bit more if I find more work somewhere. That money would only need to cover the wood and fastenings, and glue if applicable.

Here are the parameters I'm looking at.


Cheap materials (required, I'm poor)
Solid wood.. not interested in ply (required)
Primarily rowing. Sailing rig maybe as a joke option/downwind thing.
Weight capacity of 3-4 people? (willing to go 2-3 if required for price)
Plans should be cheap or free. (see above poor note)
Glue would be alright if it means I could save money. Kept to a minimum though. (only for glueing up lumber.. not as a structural thing)
Fastening.. I'd like to keep it simple, and cheap. (rivets?)
Lapstrake would be ideal, but not required
Something I could build with next to no boatbuilding skills, and assume noone around to help me but my copy of Chapelles, and this forum.
I have a trailer that will work for up to 18'. I'd prefer something around 15-18' if I could build that within my price range.


I wonder how difficult a faering would be? Could I edgeglue planks together rather than buying wide enough boards?

So yeah, looking for comments. Particularly anyone from Washington who knows where I can find cheap lumber?

Also, please don't try to tell me all the virtues of ply. I just prefer traditional designs. Particularly Scandinavian.

Also, I already have plans for this (http://www.batritningar.se/default.aspx?Language=EN&Currency=USD&Page=BoatplansDetails&Id=76). Not sure I could pull that one off without help though. Or if I could buy the materials.. When I priced the bronze fasteners a year ago they came to over $300..

[rbgarr]

They are flat-bottomed and not your style, but I wonder whether the Babson Island, Westport or Lumberyard skiff could be built for a $500 (purchased) materials budget?

[Paul Pless]

Something cheap?

I'd look at something like Harry Bryan's dory skiff. I believe the plans for building are available free in an old WoodenBoat article.
Cross planked sharpie type bottom with lapped sides like a dory.
(alas, not very scandinavian)

http://www.harrybryan.com/harrybryan/boats/12%20.5.daisy.thmb.jpg

Do you have access to Pete Culler's books?

[StevenBauer]

Or John Gardner's books? Or you might be better off with Woodenboats' Lumberyard Skiff. Have you seen the "Getting Started In Boats" Blog: http://gettingstartedinboats.typepad.com/getting_started_in_boats/



Steven

[Steve Paskey]

John Gardner's "Wooden Boats to Build and Use" has a 16-foot double-ended gunning dory. Sweet little boat. Very similar to the 19-foot version ... just shorter.

For a rowing boat that size, the cheapest and easiest way to build without plywood would be a flat-bottomed skiff, or Harry Bryan's Daisy. Gardner's Building Classic Small Craft has a nice 15-foot flattie skiff that I like better than WB's Lumberyard Skiff in some ways. The sides are lapstrake -- two 1x12 boards per side.

Another easy traditional skiff -- Uncle Gabe's 15-ft flattie skiff in Sam Rabl's "Boatbuilding in Your Own Backyard." One nice thing about a skiff like that is that you don't need to spend money on the materials for a strongback and multiple frames -- the sides wrap around a single center frame.

There is a WB "how to build" article (in 2 parts I think) on building Daisy. But the article shows the 12-foot version (there's also a 15-footer), and I don't think you can do it from the article alone. (I could be wrong.)

OR ... Get the WB article on building a Norwegian pram by eye, and have a go at it! (You can probably find other sources that will help.
.

[Yeadon]

Cheap ... you need used. Something that you can fix up and sail hard. Maybe it's not the plan you have your heart set on, but there's a lot to learn from a restoration.

edited to add - http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/boa/964286489.html

I've seen a photo of a Poulsbo boat with a sprit rig ... though for $1300 you might as well build a little boat.

[Thorne]

Hmmm -- $500 isn't going to get you very far, particularly if you have to purchase the copper rivets and roves.

I suspect you'll have to build one of Gardner's Bank dorys to get around the cost of copper fasteners -- most lapstrake designs will be over your budget. Or as suggested above, a simple skiff -- one of the Atkin designs perhaps?

[Michael Beckman]

Cheap ... you need used. Something that you can fix up and sail hard. Maybe it's not the plan you have your heart set on, but there's a lot to learn from a restoration.

edited to add - http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/boa/964286489.html

I've seen a photo of a Poulsbo boat with a sprit rig ... though for $1300 you might as well build a little boat.

That would actually be my preferred route.. I just haven't seen anything decent.

A skiff would be alright also. I have the series on the lumberyard skiff.. never really grabbed my fancy though

[Yeadon]

I will keep my eyes open. Maybe something will come through CWB.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

You want cheap? "White Duck" is cheap. "White Duck" is also very traditional. It's all lumber. It also ain't pretty.
It's a traditional 14' flat sided dinghy with cross planked bottom. I haven't looked at the plans, lately but they are free. This thing may even be held together with nails.
Best of all it won't encumber you for months on end. No use making your first boat your life's work.
It's on this site. You'll have to look for it.
http://www.svensons.com/boat/

[David G]

Mr. Beckman,

That certainly is a tight budget. My first thought also was used. My second thought was Atkin. Here's one example - small boat, simple rig, simple build with gentle planking bends and no tricky stem rabbet, etc. It even verges on cartoppable - so you wouldn't need a trailer right away.

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/LittlePeter.html

You might also start to cruise the boatyards, looking for a neglected small boat. Contact the owner and plead youth, poverty, and the commitment to bringing the boat back to life. You might find a sympatico owner.

G'luck

[Daniel Noyes]

Hi Michael
Wood from a local lumber mill, plane it to thickness your self.
fastenings will be hot dip galvanized nails, clenched at the laps. Oil based house paint.
DO NOT try to edge glue up wide planks from narrow pices of wood.

Have you looked throught John Gardners "The Dory Book" yet? (free at local library)
I mentioned the book to you a couple times when you were looking for the school project. there are several boats in the book wich would come close, The Chamberlain Dory skiff is probably the most capable boat close to your price range.
The traditional answer to your question is a flat iron skiff or a small banks dory.
You might also consider a traditional build of a Gloucester Gull type boat.
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[Keith Wilson]

How about old-style strip planking (no fiberglass) edge-nailed with galvanized nails, and then galvanized screws into steamed frames? That's how the old-timers did it if they didn't have much money. You'd want a table saw to rip the strips, but otherwise there are no power tools needed. No, it won't last forever, but it sure is cheap, you can use almost any kind of wood you can scrounge up (cedar is best), and you can make just about any hull shape you like. See if you can find a copy of Weston Farmer's From My Old Boat Shop (interlibrary loan?); he has an excellent discussion of how to do it.

[paladin]

Michael....if you intend to use solid lumber do not use epoxy....if you could find 1 x 4 cedar planks then you can make the edges tongue and groove or lapstrake. You won't want to cover with fiberglas either. When you decide what you want to build, send me an e-mail...maybe I can find a set of gudgeons and pintles for the rudder.

[johnw]

Well, you might find an old wood Snipe hull. Those run cheap. They're heavy, built like icebreakers, but you can probably buy some used sails for cheap.

[boatbear]

Hi Michael. My .02 -
1. If you like the faering style, build one. You are going to be happier with a boat you are passionate about.
2. Don't worry about the money. Boats take time to build. Along the way you will need more money and you will find it.
3. Get to know some local carpenters. Visit building sites and scrounge. You need lots of scrap for strongbacks etc.
4. Gardner's 'The Dory Book' has the best description and illustrations of lapstrake construction techniques I've seen.
5. People on this forum will help with bits and pieces (see Paladin, above)
6. The important bit - one length of timber is all you need to start a boat.

Good luck.

[johnw]

Which is why I think on that budget, you're looking at something used. Unless you can do something about the budget. Craig's List is a good idea. You might check with the Center for Wooden Boats, sometimes a skiff gets donated that they don't want to keep.

[TimH]

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/boylesboats/DCP_0001z.jpg



my eyes!! :eek:

[Steve Paskey]

Which is why I think on that budget, you're looking at something used. Unless you can do something about the budget. Craig's List is a good idea. You might check with the Center for Wooden Boats, sometimes a skiff gets donated that they don't want to keep.

It's certainly worth looking, but don't hold your breath. Odds are that you'd look a long time on CL before you find a 15-foot rowing boat built without plywood for $500 or less. I've been watching CL in the SF Bay area and Sacramento for a year and a half and don't recall seeing anything that fits the bill. Of course, that may be because Thorne pounces on things before the rest of us notice. :D

[Steve Paskey]

The mention of CL gives me another idea. If you're going to stick to a $500 budget, you can't pay retail -- you'll need to scrounge or scavenge a lot of the materials.

If you have some place to store the wood, why not forget the plans for now? See what you can scavenge first, and let the materials dictate what you build.

Keep an eye on Craigslist and and post a "wanted" ad on freecyle. Start asking around, and do anything else you can think of. There must be someone with some decent lumber in a barn or garage that they're willing to part with for a song.

If you can come up with enough lumber to get started, I'd be willing to send you a pair of bronze oarlocks and a few dozen bronze wood screws, maybe even a few small pieces of nice mahogany suitable for breasthooks or stern knees ...

[Michael Beckman]

I think that unless I see something particularly interesting I'll save my money until I find more permanent work. Might need money for transportation to the east coast if I find a job over there.. dunno whats gonna happen yet.

I'd rather save and buy a cabin cruiser anyway. >_>

[seanz]

Just a thought........what about skin on frame?
Is it cheaper than a planked boat?



I'll be off now...........

[Michael Beckman]

Skin on frame could be interesting. I remember looking for plans awhile back and having a hard time finding much beyond kayaks.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

http://gaboats.com/ Read and inwardly digest.

http://gaboats.com/tutorials/recanvas.html

[kenjamin]

To scronge wood effectively (especially long pieces) I picked up a pair of truck racks of 2" tubular steel for $150. The racks are rated for 500 lbs. and easily take 16 footers with no problem. They recently redid the elevators at the building where I work and for two weeks I walked by a couple of long narrow pine boxes that were empty and just waiting to be hauled off. I kept thinking those boards could make a good part of a lumberyard skiff but I'm framing a small workshop at present and I'm more interested in thicker scrap right now. Check with local cabinet makers and find out where they discard their scrap. I used to dumpster dive in one near a cabinet shop and it was unbelieveable the good boat building wood they would throw away. Also I'll second the notion of getting a look at John Gardner's book, "The Dory". A scrap-built dory would be a good first boat for you. Good luck (and keep your eyes peeled for free wood).

[James McMullen]

You could build a 20' Umiak within your budget. Here's a pic of one I built to the same general size and dimensions of an Oughtred Ness Yawl--which is a very faering-ish sort of boat:

http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/5707/2607566710088484686S500x500Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2607566710088484686NPScFl)

I'd say don't build any sort of simple flat-bottomed skiff sort of boat just to be cheap for where we live. The water's too cold and the tide rips too strong to get by safely with a crude, simplified hull form like that and be happy. I think a faering, dory or wherry hull shape--or the skin-on-frame approximation is exactly what you want for open-water rowing near PT--NOT a flattie!

[Yeadon]

Seanz for the win. Skin-on-frame is an actual good idea.

I've considered making a small skin-on-frame pram tender, if only because it looks like a fun project.

[Michael Beckman]

You could build a 20' Umiak within your budget. Here's a pic of one I built to the same general size and dimensions of an Oughtred Ness Yawl--which is a very faering-ish sort of boat:

http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/5707/2607566710088484686S500x500Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2607566710088484686NPScFl)

I'd say don't build any sort of simple flat-bottomed skiff sort of boat just to be cheap for where we live. The water's too cold and the tide rips too strong to get by safely with a crude, simplified hull form like that and be happy. I think a faering, dory or wherry hull shape--or the skin-on-frame approximation is exactly what you want for open-water rowing near PT--NOT a flattie!

You totally just won this thread. Anyone know of a good book on building umiaks?

[Bruce Taylor]

Anyone know of a good book on building umiaks?

http://www.seawingboats.co.uk/images/building%20skin-on-frame%20boats.jpg

Available through the WB store, I believe.

[ChrisBen]

Here's a couple of places to check out. I've built 2 of the Geodesic boats. The Nimrod 12 took me maybe 45 hours and 300 or so dollars, though that was 16 years ago.
Nimrod 12 - Geodesic AiroLITE Boats (http://www.gaboats.com/boats/nimrod12.html)
Umiak (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cronus.rockisland.com/%7Ekyak/Images/umiak.jpg&imgrefurl=http://cronus.rockisland.com/%7Ekyak/boat.html&usg=__2d5PMYc6JHOU4hodjctWDsl6Pnw=&h=212&w=300&sz=66&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=0FP9PlbJ53ad0M:&tbnh=82&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dumiak%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Df irefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN)

[jerry bark]

go to the library and get "bark canoes and skin boats of north america" by chappelle and arkey if your local does not have a copy then go for interlibrary loan. according to worldcat there are over a thousand at libraries in the US.

great read and lots of info on umiaks.

good luck
jerry

[James McMullen]

Michael, pop on over to Anacortes some time and you can see that boat in the picture up close and personal. She's not getting used much these days since I finished Rowan. . . .maybe I'd sell her or even just loan her to you if you'll keep her maintained. You'll need to carve some new oars and make a new yard and boom as I kept and reused those parts in Rowan. . . .

[Michael Beckman]

That sounds incredible. I actually have a few spars in my garage that just need to be finished to size. What sort of maintenance is involved with skin on frame? It sounds like I'll have to go for a drive once all this snow melts off. I'd love to pick your brain on the construction, and see one up close. Thanks a lot for even the consideration. I'll send you a PM in the next few weeks to figure out a good time for me to drive over.

[Bob Triggs]

Hey Michael, stop in at gallery 9 In Port Townsend, near the Public House and Palace Hotel,they have some skin on frame boats on display in there, baidarkas. The fellow who builds them could put you onto some good info.

[afuera]

http://capefalconkayak.com/jwboat.html

A good little pictorial on building a skin on frame pulling boat... I remember seeing this in Wooden Boat Mag few years ago

[slidercat]

Excellent book! I reviewed it for Living Aboard magazine-- review here:

http://slidercat.com/blog/wordpress/?page_id=8#rev2








go to the library and get "bark canoes and skin boats of north america" by chappelle and arkey if your local does not have a copy then go for interlibrary loan. according to worldcat there are over a thousand at libraries in the US.

great read and lots of info on umiaks.

good luck
jerry

[Three Cedars]

Gosh I'd definitely go with skin on frame . Good fortune to have James nearby !

Two more sources are Skip Snaith who wrote the book " Umiak " http://cronus.rockisland.com/~kyak/ubook.html and Corey Freedman http://www.skinboats.org/skinboats/home.html . I'd look them both up .

[James McMullen]

Michael, when you come to town, we'll go drop in on Corey--he lives here in Anacortes too. He's built several umiaks and something on the order of several hundred SOF kayaks. . . . . . even his workshop is built skin-on-frame--a great big tent!

[ChrisBen]

Michael, check out the last two issues of WB mag. #'s 205 and 206. There's a great two part article on building a skin on frame canoe. "The Solo Carry" part I and II.

[Matt Middleton]

From the same website posted earlier: http://www.capefalconkayak.com/adirondackguideboat.html

This guy basically just adapted his skin on frame building technique to other designs. Seems you could do the same if you don't mind doing some planning.

Good luck however you proceed,
Matt

[Michael Beckman]

Michael, when you come to town, we'll go drop in on Corey--he lives here in Anacortes too. He's built several umiaks and something on the order of several hundred SOF kayaks. . . . . . even his workshop is built skin-on-frame--a great big tent!

That sounds great.

I've never really spent much time in Anacortes. It'll be fun to make a day of it.