December 20, 1860

[J. Dillon]

South Carolina secedes from the Union

South Carolina officially leaves the United States when a convention ratifies an article of secession. South Carolina, the first state to secede, was followed within a few weeks by six other states, who collectively formed the Confederate States of America. When hostilities erupted in April 1861, four more states joined the Confederacy.

[Mrleft8]

Remember it well, do ya Jack? ;)

[paladin]

Then the damn yankees stole our land 'cause we wouldn't fight for them....I lost a lot of relatives in the War of Northrun' Agression.

[Mrleft8]

"Northern aggression"? Who fired on Whom at Ft. Sumpter?? (One of Carter's great great grandfathers was believed to have fired the first shot until very recently.... Ruffin....)

[J. Dillon]

Lefty , try this site

JD

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/major-anderson-ft-sumter_Dir/first-shot-civil-war.htm

[goodbasil]

I used to know a guy who was born in 1855 and could remember seeing both blues and grays when he was a kid. Remembered seeing slaves too. Quite a character.

[andrewe]

I always liked the story(different war..but) When the US wanted to build the Embassy in Grosvenor Square in London, they aproached Grosvenor Estates about buying the land. " We do not sell land, we lease it". " But we always own our embassys" "All right, we will sell the land if you give back the pieces you took off us before" " Sorry we don't understand?" Turns out that the Duke of Grosvenor owned most of Louisiana and half of Mississippi before the war of Independance. So the embassy is still the only one on leased land.
Andrew

[Yeadon]

Out here on the frontier, your war just seems so far away.

[andrewe]

In the 70s, a family friend worked for ICR and often visited the States. Staying with fellow workers towards the west coast who often talked about being on `the frontier´, he said it sounded a bit odd when you could buy sliced bread down at the supermarket.
A

[paul oman]

It as a vastly larger picture than just North vs. South. It was a test the concept of democratic rule, and the outcome has/is affecting every nation on the planet today.

If you allow the losing side in a democratic election (such as the Pres. election of 1860) to just walk away, fight back, etc. rather than accept the will of the ballot box, then you have no democracy. The great experiment of popular self rule (i.e. democracy) will have failed. Democratic rule would have been shown to be unsuccessful in practice. Democracy requires that the losers accept the will of the majority. Rule by Kings and dictators would replace democratic governments.

The North's victory showed that democracy can work (the minority can/will accept the power of the majority) and that has shaped the world we live in for the better.

It is not just my thoughts, Lincoln wrote about this around 1862 or 63.

It would have been a different issue if the legality of 'leaving the Union' had been settled in advance. Had a national vote been taken in 1860 asking Americans if the Southern states could leave the Union, most would probably have said Yes. Then the South could have left backed by the power of the democratic system rather than nearly destroying it.

The bottom line for the South, is that they handled/re-acted to the situation very poorly. In terms of today's population, the CW cost our nation 7 million lives. Compare that number to Vietnam, Iran, etc... And Lincoln didn't even want to end slavery, only keep it from expanding. The Southern states could have lived with that for the duration of Lincoln's term.

[JimD]

Then the damn yankees stole our land 'cause we wouldn't fight for them...

They'd have stolen it anyway.