High Speed Sailing Dinghies (IC)

[bainbridgeisland]

My friend Del Olsen built this sailing dinghy years ago. Thought you might enjoy the pictures I took of launch day. The boat is an International 10 square Meter Canoe. It is about 17' long x 38" wide and 135 lbs. It carries 10 M^2 of sail (about 114 ft^2) and a sliding seat to give it the power to carry so much sail. For years it has been the fastest single-handed monohull dinghy in the world. It is a little faster than a 5o5 around a triangular course.

Launching:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid153/p6f10d666a94febd76a41119c98775006/f59f8eb4.jpg

You can really see the details of one of these boats as Del rigs. Note especially the sliding seat. The holes in the seat are to put your heels in while sitting out.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid153/pf80a086e2a57ce45aed72b98c3c5ddaf/f59f8eb9.jpg

A view from forward. The hull itself is one-design but not all the boats sport these high crown decks I like so much.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid153/p2e8edf567ff4548a37bcd22beeccd262/f59f8eb6.jpg

Del's first sail in the new boat:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid153/pbf03d871c0e1ed484f11c379a88aa232/f59f8ebf.jpg

What do these boats look like at speed? Here is a picture of Dell with a newer boat from www.intcanoe.us (http://www.intcanoe.us) in the 2002 World Championship to give you an inkling:

http://www.intcanoe.us/mygallery/mypics/Fleet/12/bristol-145-web.jpg
Note the section shape of the bottom of the sliding seat in the above picture. If you drop the seat into a wave, this shape planes over the water instead of catching. In fact, you can let go the tiller, stand up on the seat and walk to the main hull before the boat capsizes. Another thing interesting about sailing these boats is they have a lot of roll inertia when the crew is on the seat. i.e. when hit with a puff they are slow to roll over compared to a lightweight trapeze dinghy like a Fireball or 470. On the down side, gybing in a blow can be a real challenge.
David Mancebo, edited to fix picture links.

[ 01-04-2005, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: bainbridgeisland ]

[Hwyl]

I've never understood why these boats are not more popular. I wonder how it compares in speed to the singlehander that was in WB about a year ago. That had an assymetric.

I like sliding seats, and it seems that in theory you can get more righting moment from a seat than a trapeze, becuase the crew's weight can be further outboard than the feet on the rail position. If you look at the Hornet class, which personifies the idea that old designs can be fast, they have overwhelmingly chosen trapezes

[skuthorp]

As a kid I sailed Vaucluse Juniors, a sort of scaled down Sydney Harbour 14footer of an earlier vintage. Just a ply box really, with 4ft of gal plate below and a stiff main, jib and spinnaker and a banana board as the canoe. Fantastic, if wet!!
Later I graduated to a Cherub, still my favourite boat if I had my druthers!
:D

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Lovely! I have always admired the 10 sq metre canoes; I was never good enough in dinghies to try one, even when I was thirty years younger, but I do love to see them. Definitely the ultimate sailing boat, for me.

There is a class which sails on our coast at Stone SC on the Blackwater estuary - I always look out for them.

[Noah]

Looks fun! Some day I'm going to try one of those, and also a foiler Moth.

http://www.moth.asn.au/pictures/2004_melb_nats/Rohan_Veal11.jpg

[Doug Canada]

Here are some more;
http://www.single-handedskiffs.com/pages/453349/index.htm
The solo swift was in the Wooden Boat magazine several months ago.
http://www.nwmarinedesign.com/deltav.htm

Doug

[bainbridgeisland]

Originally posted by Doug Canada:
Here are some more;
http://www.single-handedskiffs.com/pages/453349/index.htm (http://www.single-handedskiffs.com/pages/453349/index.htm)
The solo swift was in the Wooden Boat magazine several months ago.
http://www.nwmarinedesign.com/deltav.htm

DougDoug, I am familiar with the Solo Swift, though I haven't sailed one. The asymmetrical is under development within the IC class as well:
http://www.intcanoe.org/icimages/assymetrical/nat2000_4%20500.jpg

It would be interesting to try the Solo Swift. Having spent years sailing trapeze dinghies, I was pleasantly surprised with the IC. It is much more secure in rough weather on the sliding seat than on a wire. The problem is loosing contact with the boat while on trapeze due to waves slapping you around. Also, the wire is always trying to pull the crew forward. This is another reason the sliding seat is more secure to me. I would suspect the Solo Swift, being a trapeze dinghy, has these same struggles. Has anyone out there sailed one of them enough to know.

Another interesting comparison is weight. The Solo Swift is much heavier, has a taller rig and about the same righting moment. Thus, it might be better in light air but could struggle against an IC in a breeze. I haven't seen these two boats sail together. It would be very interesting to see them.

[Doug Canada]

bainbridgeisland,
Flying Canoes

http://www.moth-sailing.org/

Never seen anything quite like these things. I only sailed lasers & hobbies.
They look painfull when things go wrong.
Wonder where you can get (construction) plans for these rocket ships?
So called fast sail boats look some what inadaquate after seeing these things.
....If you feel the need for speed.

Doug

[BillyBudd]

In eras past I swore off little hot racy sailing boats in favor of the placid and the stable. A sip of shared wine on the windward side vs. the solitary extended rush. Now internet revelation inflames with sight of the banned. Gaaaaah!

I knew that those 16-30s at MASCF at St. Michaels had the seeds of destruction within. A weakness explored in timid steps: that steroided Moth--is it a wood (home-buildable) boat and does it require un-amateur sails and carbonated masts and rigs and all? Surge and roar and a non-Xmas HO! Got more info? Feed the veins!

[skuthorp]

Whoooeee!!!!!
I dont reckon I could move fast enough these days to sail a foiler, but I'd like to try!! :D

[John Hastie]

Have any of you seen the Hobie Airfoil? Talk about a rocket ship.

I saw the movie of one blowing off a Chris Craft. Hard to believe. I am not use to sailboats that do over 50 mph.

John

[Wild Wassa]

I say an NS14's is fast, yet the boat can't hold a candle to a Gwen 12 for flat out speed or to a 505 for instant performance, these boats are fast. Yet the Gwen 12 and 505 can't hold candles to 16-18ft skiffs, which are fast.

It appears to me that all performance dinghies are fast. The Sea Scouts have two 505's and they are explosively fast and a Laser 2. In the next regatta in 4 weeks time, I wouldn't mind warming a 505 up or a Laser 2. Laser 2 sailors say the Laser 2's are very fast, this I'm yet to experience ... but the boat is nearly ready. That gives me 3 weeks to get super fit for the boat handling ... and a week to rig the, 505, smile.gif . I've no idea how to rig a Laser 2.

Warren.

[ 01-11-2005, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Wild Wassa]

Originally posted by Hwyl:
"I've never understood why these boats are not more popular."

Hwyl, I've watched Sea Scouts try to keep an International Moth upright, on inland water. It's not an easy thing to do, with the fluky winds. When the kids run out of air they just fall over ... instantly. This is a shade of a Gwen 12. The Gwen 12, an Australian designed 12ft dinghy can do 21+ knots but falls over when the wind dies.

I hope this helps as not all sailors are good skate board riders with an incredible sense of balance. I think that's what it takes ... as well as a consistent sea breeze.

Warren.

[ 01-11-2005, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[adampet]

bbi,
thanks for the pictures. My oldest brother was an IC sailer. Del was part of the flotilla that helped scatter his ashes in San Fran Bay. I've tried the IC but found the learning curve a little steep. I kept getting injured when I had some spectacular wipeouts. Too many things to hit as I fell off! I like speed but The IC has too many strings, and I'm not as young and agile as I used to be!

[bainbridgeisland]

Originally posted by adampet:
bbi,
thanks for the pictures. My oldest brother was an IC sailer. Del was part of the flotilla that helped scatter his ashes in San Fran Bay. Sorry for your loss. I used to sail ICs with the fleet in SF. I wonder if I knew your brother.

[bainbridgeisland]

Originally posted by adampet:
bbi,
I've tried the IC but found the learning curve a little steep. I kept getting injured when I had some spectacular wipeouts. Too many things to hit as I fell off! I like speed but The IC has too many strings, and I'm not as young and agile as I used to be!I know what you mean. I have had some spectacular crashes as well. However, I have not been injured. I didn't find the learning curve too steep but had previously sailed trapeze dinghies 140 days a year for a few years. Most folks have not spent that much time in sailing dinghies.

The IC class is more than 100 years old. It is as classic a boat as you will find. International canoe races actually pre-date the America's Cup. As you can imagine they don't look quite the same today. But, in general terms the length, beam, sail area and weight haven't changed that much. My point is: most of us would not expect a classic boat to be so fast or so challenging to sail. But the old canoes must have been fast and even harder to sail well than the modern ones.

The Moth, posted above, is much harder to sail than an IC. Have you ever looked at the stability of a Moth? They are always statically unstable, like balancing a pencil on its point on your desk. Dynamically they would be unstable too if not tuned just right. Turns out you have to ease the shrouds and let the rig fall to leeward to obtain even a small dynamic stability region when underway. As weather gets rougher and you need a broader range of stability, the rig is allowed to fall off more. I do not know of any other boats that need to do this.