Skin Kayak Conversion

[Greg Stoll]

Hi all

I have had plans for a skin-on-frame kayak for 8 or 10 years now, and I'm considering building it this winter. I'm not familiar with the fabric coverings, but I'm not sure that they would hold up well to repeated beaching. Would it be acceptable to substitute the skin with 1/8" Lauan doorskin type plywood? It would be appropriately scarphed and epoxied, of course.

Does anyone see any problem with this idea?

Anyone want to talk me out of it and convince me to stay with the skin instead of wood?

Greg

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

It's been done but only on SOF's that are hard chined.
Using bigbox store luan in a problem because the outer verneers are only about .020" thick. Some of the current luan sold isn't glued with exterior glue any more. Luan comes in 1/4' thickness and doesn't submit to bending and twisting very well. Many build small boats with this stuff but have to cover it in 'glass/epoxy when they discover how weak it is.
Build the skin boat. You'll love it's lightness.
The areas that suffer abrasion can be doubled up.
You can cut wear and tear down by learning to mount/dismount while the boat is afloat.
Here are two web sites where skin-boat crazies discuss their passion;
http://rtpnet.org/robroy/baidarka/
http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Building/index.cgi
Charlie

[Ron Williamson]

I used 3mm(fat 1/8") luaun doorskins and glass/epoxy to build a 18 1/2' George Putz style kayak.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0071559396/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-7783251-3960921#reader-link
I was a bit worried about oil canning in the cockpit area, so I doubled it up,though in hindsight it was overkill.As it is, I can stand inside and bounce, with the hull supported on two blocks 12' apart.
R

[JimD]

It's not the best plywood and you'd be better off with marine grade, but on the other hand one of my kayaks, about five years old, is made from those cheapo door skins and its doing just fine. As for wood instead of fabric I can't image any reason why not. The design will probably be way over framed, though. Not necessarily a bad thing, just not required. Eighth inch plywood is not going to hold up to beaching very well, especially if it's v-bottomed. Mine has 3 layers of fg tape stem to stern. My third kayak is made of quarter inch ply because so many plans seem to call for it. I think it adds strength the boat doesn't need and weight I don't want. Next kayak will be back to eight inch.

[Todd Bradshaw]

Of course it all depends upon what the skin is, but don't be too quick to dismiss the durability of good skin-on-frame construction. There is a very good chance that a properly built skin-on-frame kayak will still be going strong long after a lightweight plywood boat has been smashed to splinters on the rocks. Had a couple containers full of luan door skins and epoxy washed up on the shores of Greenland or Baffin Island, I doubt it would have radically changed the history or development of the kayak.

[Arko]

Just build a S&G kayak. If you cover the FLEXIBLE frame with ply you basically are going to end up with a S&G kayak anyway. Thier strength and much of thier performance lies in it's ability to yeild to the sea, not fight it. Wait until you hear the frame brake loose from the polyureathane (or whatever you choose) coated skin, you will swear that your boat just snapped in two, and, you'll see just how much the frame can flex, and in a skin kayak it is not a bad thing at all.
Contact George Dyson of George Dyson Baidark & Company and obtain your skin material from him. I covered mine with 16oz polyester and I am here to tell you it's extremely tough and durable and according to folks who know more than I said that 16oz was overkill unless I was mounting an expedition, but, like you I was a little skeptical and went with the heaviest material I could find only to find out later that it was indeedy overkill.
Where did you get plans for a skin on frame kayak?

[Boomkin Joe]

Greg,

As Todd sez.
The Inuit added whalebone reinforcements under the stems or other places to protect the skin.
You can fit HDPE strips under the keelson, stem or chines.
It will be much stronger than doorskin.
Why add the weight of ply to the weight of the woodwork, btw?
Skin her with ballistic nylon and laugh.

[Chris Stewart]

Build it with the fabric skin. As recommended above, buy the skin from Dyson. They can recommend fabric weight, material (nylon or polyester) and covering (polyurethane, hypalon, etc.)

With moderate care, even their lighter fabric coverings will last longer than doorskins. The skinboat forums have several accounts of people who had their kayak blow off their car at highway speeds, or get slammed into a rock by a wave and come away unscathed. Doorskins would be splinters.

Dyson, Baidarka & Company
435 West Holly St., Bellingham WA 98225
telephone: 360-734-9226 — fax: 360-671-9736

[Arko]

Thanks Chris, I could not find anything from Dyson with his address on it.

[Ron Williamson]

I built mine,intending to canvas it.When I found some nice plywood,I changed course and decided to do an experiment in durability.
I left all the framing,except the sheerclamps and deck beams aboard the strongback.
Twelve years of serious abuse(lots of kids) have had little effect.I don't ever carry it,nor has it ever been under cover except for snow.It has spent weeks sitting on the beach,filled with rainwater, grinding on the sand and stones.
All that said,in the future,I would build a proper SOF and keep it away from young children.
R

[Three Cedars]

As mentioned skin on frame kayaks can be fitted with rubstrips pegged onto the chines and keelson. I've done this with both HDPE plastic and wood, the plastic lasts a couple of years gets brittle, cracks ,falls to pieces. The wood rub strips are still going strong.

One advantage of skin on frame construction is that you can build a lightweight kayak. Impact strength is not a problem and neither are punctures as long as you use 8 to 16oz nylon or polyester fabric .

Tom Yost http://yostwerks.com/ has a fantastic website with free plans for collapsible kayaks he uses 18oz PVC skins that are already coated and reports good results

The long term wear on a skin is from abrasion usually from landing and launching so if you launch/land most of the time in 8" of water then the skin will be happy. Use a ground sheet inside the kayak to catch sand and grit - THIS IS IMPORTANT ! redface.gif