Tiller to be replaced by wheel system

[TerryOz]

I have a 44' LOA "Bailey" Double Ended Ketch which was built in 1949. It has Tiller steering that is connected to a worm drive, that operates a below the waterline (rather than the type used on the Hanna and Archer boats) rudder. It suffers what I feel is too much Weather/Lee Helm and of course when the cockpit has a few guests it becomes crowded making it uncomfortable to steer....So, I have it in mind to run a wheel instead. I would like to place a traditional binnacle/wheel system mounted forward in the cockpit. I understand that this could be a fairly involved job, but to me there are many benefits to be gained...Seems to me that I could use hydraulics (power steering???) to overcome the Weatherhelm problems. The point of this post is to seek advice on how to do this..Are there any designs or systems that you guys know of? has anyone here done something similar? General thoughts...I know this may raise some hackles here, but to me I will be very happy to be able to let my wife steer comfortably.I look forward to your help!

[John B]

Hi Terry......Bailey, as in Charles Bailey, NZ?

[Thorne]

Terry -

Don't know nuttin' about converting tiller to wheel steering, but if you have a weather (or lee) helm, the issue is usually one of the balance between the sails' Center of Effort (CE) and the counterforce provided by the keel and rudder.

So swapping steering methods/linkages shouldn't help the weather helm issue -- just move it from one location to another. I'd chase that problem separately by changing sails and/or tuning the rig.

It is my understanding that weather helm is caused by too much force forward (like adding larger headsails) in comparison to the balance from the keel and rudder. There are many others on this forum with greater knowledge on this issue!

[uncas]

Saw a conversion a few weeks ago..
A Concordia..( 1954). Tiller post still there but a wheel in the cockpit.
Don't know how the conversion worked...obviously is does...but it does look funny..!

[wyndham]

Try Edson, I'm sure they have a website. They make retro fit binnacles for plastic boats, can't be much different.

[kc8pql]

I'm with Thorne. Weatherhelm is usually a rigging issue. Adding a wheel may make the problem easier to handle, but you'll still be draging your rudder.

[ssor]

You seem to have two separate problems.
A: you complain of weather helm. As stated that is a sail balance problem.
B: The cockpit gets too crowded to make using a tiller convenient. The binnacle is the easy part, the linkages are the devil. As someone else said, contact Edson with make and model, you can be sure that they have done at least one.
Ross in Bel Air

[Uncle Duke]

My brother and I used to have a company, back when dinaosaurs roamed, in Connecticut, named Motive Marine. We did a lot of tiller to wheel conversions, mostly using Edson kits. They work fine and are not too difficult, as long as you quite properly deal with the strains of the turning points.
However, as a few people here have pointed out, if you have lots of weather or lee helm, your problem will not be solved by that conversion, or by any other. It will, however, solve the problem of annoying your guests - at the penalty of going slower, which you are already doing. If you constantly have to spend muscle hauling the tiller "north" in the cockpit, then your boat has CE too far aft - too much sail area behind the CR, levering the hull "north", and you have to compensate with the tiller. Lee helm the opposite, of course, and much worse from a safety point of view.
Traditionally, you want just a little weather helm, so that if you drop the tiller the boat comes head to wind without throwing anyone out of the cockpit.
Just a question - was this originally a ketch, or a sloop with the mizzen added? Regardless, as an old guy, I wouldn't spend time on a wheel until I fixed the helm issues.

Now - having said that... you have a tiller attached to a worm-gear mechanism? Worm-gear is the bee's knees... don't lose that if you can avoid it. Talk to someone smarter than me about how to use that with a wheel. Or... sell it to me. I might even pay the shipping.

[ 11-21-2005, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Uncle Duke ]

[TerryOz]

John B
Yes mate, it is a New Zealand design built at Searles Boatyard at Port Adelaide, South Australia.....I have a few pics if you want them.
Thanks for the info guys by the way, some very helpful stuff indeed. I have had a look at the Edson site, seems to me that I need to integrate the steering system with the existing Wormgear somehow.

[Thad Van Gilder]

I'm curious... how is a tiller hooked up to a worm drive???

-Thad

[ 11-22-2005, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: Thad Van Gilder ]

[Ian McColgin]

Most everyone above raise the issues I'd raise, weather helm a seperate issue from tiller-wheel and all that, but more strongly than even Uncle Duke I raise --

Tiller to worm gear ?!?!?!?!

Waaaaahhhhttt?!?!?!

Each of the major wheel systems - cable-rope-chain around a sproket or drum to a tiller or arc or wheel // v // hydrolic // v // rack and pinion // v // worm gear - are all ways to convert rotary motion in one axis to limited rotary motion in an axis roughly 90 degrees different.

One could like a tiller to some sort of cables in a wierd set up or even to a bizzarre hydrolic systems I suppose, but my mind fails to even imagine a worm or rack and pinion system activated by a tiller.

So before offering gratuitous advice, please tell us much much more about your boat in general and the existing steering in particular. Maybe we can then understand both her excess (you say) weather helm and the existing steering system.