Hull identified?

[Rex Fearnehough]

Hi again,
I posted a little while ago regarding my 16'x 5'3" clinker built gift hull. It is most likely a Ness boat, the bottom planks are mahogany. The paint has been stripped fully inside & 80% of the outboard. I have primed the inboard planks but for two planks which are split. One of the splits is across the rivets at the lands, the other is the centre of the plank & will be less of a problem. I cannot replace the plank this year. I contacted West System to see if it was a feasible epoxy repair. I was told yes. So I intend to try it, if it doesn't work then no problem. The boat has been out of the water for 8yrs. When I have primed the whole boat, after the repair. I intend to take it down to the beach & let it float or not so that the wood can take up some moisture, it will drink gallons, & I should be able to see any more obvious problems.
IS THIS A GOOD IDEA? Or am I living in the past?
We are having some unseasonably good weather here at the moment, so it is possible to risk drowning the boat.
Please reassure me or tell me that I'm being stupid.
Rex.

[Noah]

I have 4 lapstrake boats, and two of these have cracks in the middle of the planks. I have found that they will close up once they are soaked in water, and it shouldn't be a problem. I haven't needed to put anything in the seam. Once it is closed up if you want to fix it, I would route out a 1-2" wide groove the length of the crack. Only go about 1/2 the depth of the planking. Then fit a dutchman into the routed out hole, and epoxy it into place. It should last for many years with no problems. This works well if the inside of the boat is finished bright, and the outside is painted.

Good luck, put her in the water, and see what happens.

Noah

[Noah]

I should ad that you don't want to put anything into the crack before you have given the wood a chance to swell up. If you do you will have problems. IE no epoxy filler in the crack.

Noah

[Rex Fearnehough]

Hi Noah,
Dutchmen used to come up here to buy herring last century but now, they are hard to come by. Will any other nationality do?
I don't know what a dutchman is. :confused:

[Mac_Muz]

I don't know what a Dutch Man is either, but I take it is a spline in a one half depth routered out hole.... covering more or less about each half over the spilt.

Noah is correct about not adding caulking that is hard, and not adding anything untill you swell the area first.

I have a 18'9" dorry made like your boat. It was in tuff shape when I got it, and when it dried in the fixing, cracks in the middle of planks came to be 1/4" wide!

I put a lawn sprinkler in the boat for 2 days, which closed the cracks tight. Then I allowed one days drying time, and caulked with "Life Caulk" which stays flexible, and cures best with watering. At that point I used a wet rag, not wanting to swell the seams / cracks tooo tightly.

After a bit of time, I then did the sprinkler thing again, and shaved the excess off as it squished out, and covered that with finish... paint on the out side, and a pine tar mix on the inside. I could have used varnish, but wanted a work boat finish..... This has stopped most leaking.

I still do have one area of concern. 2 cracks run parallel, about 1 1/2" apart, and connect with a vertical crack... So I would be very interested in a proper Dutch Man...... While this does not leak, it is a weak spot that I fear may move under hull pressure sailing...... I don't think it will break off, but that it may spring open in some conditions and cause me to go swimming.

Since the wood inside is covered in a oil finsh I can't do much from there, and a under paint fix would be far better........

Where the area that has a crack and is also riveted will be interesting as to how that is fixed to me.... I don't have that problem, so I can't say what might be the best fix for it.. Mac

[Mac_Muz]

Rex, I lost track of a thread here, and wonder if it was yours? I just now saw where you are from. Did you post about storing this boat in a barn? Is this a doulble ender?

If so is it possible you can get some pics of the boat? And the details of the rigging?

I am going to use the dorry I have for historical re-enactment, and wish to see details of things unknown to me....

I have a on line album with the dorry and a few other things as well, not exactly all related, but close....

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/mac_muz15/lst?.dir=/My+Photos+of++works&.src=ph&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/

I don't know if that will be a active link, or not, but if not, you might copy and paste the above to the address bar, and go see my dorry..

I am afrid the pics are not the best.... I will try and do better in time..... Mac

[ 09-13-2002, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Mac_Muz ]

[Rex Fearnehough]

Mac,
I've just seen your pictures, I am envious. I may steal some of your innovations. It is a double ender. I did post a message about a week ago asking for advice. The barn part of the story was that a farmer had told me that there may have been a sail in one of his barns, it turned out to be part of a backdrop for a theatre. This boat has had a rough life & I didn't hold up much hope for it, until I stripped the paint etc. It's been used for creel fishing, beer crate runs etc. It was also left on its' side on rocks, but it's in remarkably good shape.
Over the winter I will have to store it outside.
I am more than glad that I posted this link, I wasn't happy about using the epoxy. So with Noah's & your advice I will omit this stage.
I am not at the stage where I can post pictures but I will when I can work out how.
This is a great site.
Rex.

[ 09-13-2002, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: corra58 ]

[Mac_Muz]

Rex, Don't feel bad... When I found the dorry, it was tilted on a wooden pallet in a gravel pit. It was full of water to over flowing, there was 10" inches of muddy leaves in the bottom, suggesting many winters sitting this way. Ice was floating on the water, suggesting that the boat froze more or less solid that winter!

The inside seemed to be west systems epoxy clear finish... what was left of it..... maybe a spotty 50%! grrrrrrrrrrrrrr That was hard to get out, and still it is not all out!

I was going to loose the boat if I did not get it wet and then paint, and oil it!!!!!

Some white cedar needed to be replaced....
Some frame knees needed to be replaced....

It took years to get the epoxy off. Sanding alone would not do it time wise. I took it to a car wash many times in dead winter to shoot hot water under the epoxy, and allow it to freeze over night, thus lifting more epoxy and sometimes taking wood with it!

Some of the planks had rot too! I cut, sanded and scraped the rot off, and made a plastic forms from bacon packages to make pretend wood where there is no wood. These are small edge areas of the planking on the outside. I drilled for tooth picks into the planks sides to give the epoy more grabbing power. Then sanded these places to match the planks. The yellow paint covered that well, and so even I don't know where these patches are.

I remain wishing to see your boat. I believe the old ways are easier to find where you live, that they are here.

If you see things like running bow sprit set ups, I would like a pic, and a description of the set up.

It is hard for me to understand the terminology in words about boats.... The Dutch Man is just one of them.... I think I know the meaning, but am not sure..

I have converted from modern oar locks to single "Tholle Pins" and made the grommets to tight, but they work sorta... I thought... (thought) the grommets would work and wear in to be better, but they don't do more than get tighter when wet!!!

I will make more in time, that are a bit bigger.

I want to use this boat for "French and Indian War" and for just having a good time...

I have a modern mast and set of sails that were never used. The mast was allowed to weather, but is fixed. Thankfully the sails were stored indoors in a proper bag. Only one stain is on the sails, and it is purple!!!!!

Once I was ready to see how the mast looked in the boat, and knowing by that time there were not screw holes and hardware enough for this to have been used ever, I discovered the stainless steel rigging was screwed way to low to be of any use!

I had about 3 feet of slack in all the wire! So down came the mast and out came the screws, and over on the side the boat went...

Again the mast went in, and the rigging set in place at the gunwale, and points measured on the mast for the correct places of installing.

The old screw holes were drilled out bigger, and cedar dowels were made, stained and varnished in place to match.....

I have sailed the boat 3 times to learn more.

The first time was crazy..... The winds were up so high only the jib could be set, and I near turned turtle a few times.... WOW!

The next time I put in a new place, and the breeze was good, but I was land locked in a pond like area due to stones in a channel to the lake dead into the wind only 40 feet wide. But that was fun, and my wife steered us right on to a mud bank. I got out to shove off, thinking I might get wet to near my knee, but sank in the mud to over my waiste!!!

The last time, I put in again at a new place, and the winds were light. We went a few miles and the wind died. At this point I became a power boat target. I don't know why but power boats seem to change course and aim at me in this boat, and don't swerve off untill the last seconds...

I can't wait to get the swivel gun up and working, as I believe that a nich shinning bronze gun with a golf ball size bore may tend to change that, and I am just the sort of guy to fire a warning shot across the bow, and if it hit the boat and sink it, say I missed and since this boat was doing 100 MPH, and I hit it with circa 1700 tech, that he damn well deserved to go for a swim anyway!!

Really I think today's folks would see that gun and run.... I would...... You can bet yer shillings there will be such a gun on my boat by this time next year too!

OH!!! Do you use inches and feet, or do I need to convert to metric for you.... I can convert this ok.... sorta... Temperature I can't do so easily... it is had to find a conversion chart for that.... I think winters here may be colder than where you are... We get mighty cold here at times..... In mid winter -40F and -40 C which are the same can be common for 2 to 3 weeks at night.

Anyway this is long enough...... Mac