Oil Stones, Water Stones or Sandpaper?

[Songololo]

What do you use for sharpening your chisel and plane blades? Why?

Up till now I have been using a range of sandpaper grits in the form of strips stuck to a piece of plate glass. It works well for me but I tend to go through quite a bit of sandpaper, especially when tuning newly acquired blades. I also have some no-name brand medium grit oil stone for jobs requiring the removal of lots of metal e.g. fixing a chipped blade.

A good set of oil stones seems to cost a bit more than the equivalent water stones.

[Canoez]

Personally, I like a combination. I've got the paper and glass for "rough work" and then I go to a set of Spyderco Ceramic stones - 600 grit and 1800 grit (which I use with water and a small amount of dish soap in it) for "fine work". I haven't noticed any wear on the ceramic stones yet and they've had pretty hard use. To clean them up, I simply run them through the dishwasher.

I don't tend to go the extra step and polish with rouge, but some people will do that as well.

[Mrleft8]

I'm using waterstones now, and still having a giant mental/fiscal argument with myself about investing in a set of Shapton ceramic waterstones.... I KNOW they're exceptional stones, and Dave Fleming swore by them..... But they're so damned expensive!

[Canoez]

Lefty, How big are the Shapton stones?

[ishmael]

In my experience, both work. I like traditional stones, ya know, actually made of stone, but either work just fine.

The only proviso is that the more modern water stones need a warm shop. It's not good to let them freeze.

[Robert W. Long]

I use diamond stones for initial shaping and sharpening and an 8000 grit japanese waterstone for final polishing. Works great for me.

[Mrleft8]

Lefty, How big are the Shapton stones?

I THINK they're 2.75"x 8" +-

[outofthenorm]

Since I discovered the Scary Sharp (TM) system years ago, I haven't touched the water and oil stones. It'll get your edges so sharp, they'll cut your eyeballs just by looking at them. Costs about $4 to set up, materials available anywhere and gives an edge that is as close to perfect (even under a 10x loop) as you're going to get.

Be warned - it sounds like a clever joke at first, but it isn't. Try it - you'll never go back. Google "Scary Sharp" or go here. (http://wood.bigelowsite.com/articles/scary_sharp.htm#original)

- Norm

[TimH]

I can take a chip out of a chisel in no time with my coarse DMT Diamond stone. I also have water stones for finer stuff.

[Rational Root]

I tried

Sandpaper - PITA, also you can't use cheap paper.
Waterstones - you need to keep them level and they make a mess, and it's easy to take out a lump with a little inattention
Diamond - Love them. I have a 4 grades from DMT.

The DMT super super fine is plenty fine so that you can shave the hairs on the back of your arms. They don't dish, they are a lot cleaner. I should have bought them first and saved time money and grief.

[BrianY]

I also use two 2-sided DMT diamond stones for intial flattening and sharpening followed up by 8000 and 10000 grit waterstones. The edge left by finest diamond stone is OK for work in softwoods, but finishing on the waterstones really makes a difference. I find this system to be much easier and faster than the scary sharp/sandpaper method (never quite got the hang of it and I found it to be too fussy with all the different papers, sticking the paper to the flat surface, etc.) and my blades are plenty sharp for the work I throw at them.

I found the diamond stones at a yard sale - paid $10.00 for the pair. If I didn't have them, I stick with waterstones because they work well for me. They're fast and easy to use. They're also messy and you have to have some way to flatten them, but I consider these to be minor problems.

BTW - I use the coarsest diamond stone to flatten the waterstones - works great.

[David G]

Years ago, I had a young Swiss fellow working for me. Maybe the best employee I ever had. One of his teachers had shown him the Sandpaper system, and he passed it along to me. Since then, over the years, it's become widely known and very popular. I've never used the diamond stones, so can't compare - but I'd never go back to traditional oilstones or waterstones. Of course, I don't sharpen my edge tools as often as I should. I tend to set up periodically and sharpen everything in the shop, starting with the edges that are in the worst condition, and working my way thru to the ones that only need a touch-up.

I think - like many things - it depends on what you first get introduced to, properly trained in, and comfortable with. But the sandpaper does indeed get things Scary Sharp. Almost as sharp as my wit :rolleyes:


"Ahhh. A man with a sharp wit. Someone ought to take it away from him before he cuts himself" -- Peter da Silva

[Bob Triggs]

I have used wet and dry sandpaper, and crocus cloth, to get a mirror perfect finish on chisel edges of all kinds. I have used glass, tile, marble, saw tables, jointer tables, and corian as surface plates. The best was a lithiographer's stone which was dead flat and clean smoothe and heavy enough that it sat still on the bench like a dead whale on a beach while I worked the metal to a fine edge. I used water on the back of the paper to hold it to the stone, just splashed it on the back of the paper and slapped it down on the stone and flattened it out- it stuck like a piece of chewing gum on a sidewalk. I then just wiped it dry after using. No muss. No fuss. No poisons all over the place. I also use oil and water stones and water/diamond plates sometimes, especially in the field.

[Keith Wilson]

I use sandpaper on a small granite surface plate (got it very cheap); auto body sandpaper through #2000 from NAPA, and then some really fine stuff Lee Valley sells. It works fine for me. It would take me a LONG time to wear out enough sandpaper to cover the cost of even one water stone. I also have two coarser diamond stones for rough work.

[Krunch]

I have a double sided (1000/4000) Norton waterstone and LOVE it! Also have a fairly coarse (220?) diamond stone that I use when a blade is nicked badly or if I need to remove a lot of meat. Also use the diamond stone for leveling the waterstone.

Never tried the sandpaper/glass method, but I really like the Norton waterstones!

[John Meachen]

I use a cheap diamond plate for cleaning up damaged edges,a Norton India stone for general purposes and a 1000/6000 Japanese waterstone for a really good edge.

[goodbasil]

Leonard Lee, who wrote Sharpening, doesn't go further than a 4000 Japanese stone for chisels, plane irons etc. There is such a thing as too sharp. You've got so much thin edge that it crushes.

[David G]

Leonard Lee, who wrote Sharpening, doesn't go further than a 4000 Japanese stone for chisels, plane irons etc. There is such a thing as too sharp. You've got so much thin edge that it crushes.

That's one reason why one finishes off the process with a micro-bevel.

[Songololo]

Some useful links:

All About Sharpening (http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesAllAbout.aspx?id=3017) - a FWW summary of the various techniques
How the Scary Sharp Sharpening Method Works (http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/subscription/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=30617) - see video link on the page

[ishmael]

My opinions are undoubtedly outdated. I just know that I could get a very good edge inside a minute or two without any fancy gizmos or sandpaper, with a stone and a bottle of mineral spirits. A handy kit for a tool box. Uber edges are OK with me, but they break down quickly.

I hollow ground my chisels, and with good steel the edge lasted well and worked well. Maybe they weren't as absolutely sharp, but I could shave hair with them when they came off the stone.

[Bob Smalser]

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/272093964.jpg

I use Arkansas (novaculite) Stones (expensive) and carborundum and India oil stones and slips, largely because half of them were handed down to me by an uncle who began his boatbuilding career around 1920. I never felt the need to change.

That tells you something about Arkansas stones. My children and even grandchildren will probably use the same stones for the same reason.

Some are noticeably thinner because they need flattening once every generation or so.

These folks make the high-end ones:

http://www.hallsproedge.com/

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5090019/325525823.jpg

What abrasive you use isn't important....they all have their disadvantages. Set yourself up a serious power strop using green rouge on a firm, stitched muslin wheel and you can get away with sharpening your tools on cinder blocks ;):

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3302197/68779318.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3302197/68779484.jpg

[Keith Wilson]

Y'know, Bob, I've been meaning to do that for a while now and I think you've just inspired me to finally do it. What kind of wheel do you use? Sources?

[Bob Smalser]

Y'know, Bob, I've been meaning to do that for a while now and I think you've just inspired me to finally do it. What kind of wheel do you use? Sources?

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/27259451.jpg

This one's a good Taiwanese copy of a 1 hp Baldor 8" buffer-grinder @1800 rpm I've had for 25 years. It also has the usual left-side stone and guard/rest not shown here. Gets a lot of use. It's on it's second switch and the bearings are beginning to talk to me....when they go I'll probably buy a real Baldor from Amazon, although Grizzly sells 50-dollar copies.

Quality, stitched muslin and hard felt wheels are available at Brownells.com, as are an assortment of abrasives. Hard felt wheels are expensive and work faster than stitched muslin but are tricky to use without burning a cutting edge. You only need the muslin @10 bucks.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=111&st=stitched%20muslin&s=

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/catSearch.aspx?c=883

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Dtools&field-keywords=baldor&x=14&y=19

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/27259451.jpg

[Bob Triggs]

Bob, Would you ever use a "hard" felt wheel for that? I have to good effect. Oops, I see we just got that update above. Ditto on Brownell's for anything related. A fine gunsmiths supply house.

[Bob Smalser]

Bob, Would you ever use a "hard" felt wheel for that? I have to good effect. Oops, I see we just got that update above. Ditto on Brownell's for anything related. A fine gunsmiths supply house.

Most shop grinders are 3400 rpm instead of 1800, making hard felt even trickier to use without burning. Besides polishing flat surfaces, I use mine on lathe tools and other HS steel because the occasional touchup on hard felt postpones a trip back to the stones.

[24hacker]

There is a good video on "FineWoodworking" web site on this topic.

[Krunch]

Gee, they're not bashful with the pricing on those Baldor grinders, are they? :eek:

Does anyone know anything first-hand about the Grizzly Tormek knock-off grinder (http://www.grizzlyindustrial.com/products/10-Wet-Grinder-Kit/T10010)?

[Bob Triggs]

Most shop grinders are 3400 rpm instead of 1800, making hard felt even trickier to use without burning. Besides polishing flat surfaces, I use mine on lathe tools and other HS steel because the occasional touchup on hard felt postpones a trip back to the stones.

Bob, As a young helper in a gunshop there were many things I was warned against doing. Amongst some of the more obvious stuff, I was also told to never, ever, try to use any of the polishing wheels until I was trained and supervised to do so. Then the owner demonstrated how easy it was to destroy a set of shotgun tubes in just a few seconds on a hard felt wheel with a little polishing compound. Then he demonstrated the dangers of a flying spring by taking out a overhead light when a mainspring got away from him during a disassembly.:eek:

[PeterSibley]

Most shop grinders are 3400 rpm instead of 1800, making hard felt even trickier to use without burning. Besides polishing flat surfaces, I use mine on lathe tools and other HS steel because the occasional touchup on hard felt postpones a trip back to the stones.

Yep , the right speed is essential .I built my own with a 2hp 1440 motor belted to a spindle with 8 inch felt and 10 x 2 inch muslin wheels .If you want it to (with the right abrasive stick )it can move a lot of metal fast .:D

[Dave Gray]

Bob, I've poked around on the Grizzly site and can't find any fifty buck motors (though I do see some cheap grinders). If you know where they are I'd appreciate a hint as to where to find them.

[PeterSibley]

Bob, I've poked around on the Grizzly site and can't find any fifty buck motors (though I do see some cheap grinders). If you know where they are I'd appreciate a hint as to where to find them.

Dave , a grinder is a motor , just drop off the guards etc and fit a pulley .

[Dave Gray]

Thanks Peter, I know that, I was just hoping that perhaps there was an inexpensive (not cheap!) replacement motor that could be converted to be a grinder that might be better quality than the cheap grinders found on Grizzly's site. In this case cheap might be perfectly OK.

[Bob Smalser]

In this case cheap might be perfectly OK.

Call their tech reps.

[PeterSibley]

Yep ,ask about bearings ...nice if they have them .Not always common on cheap Chinese gear .A thermal overload switch is nice too ,a real motor saver .