How bad is it? Transom and Frames

[JMB]

Hello all --
I'm looking at is a 35 ft 1966 sloop designed by Ollie Enderlein (Swedish designer behind a lot of Hallberg-Rassy boats) -- it is mahogony planked on oak frames fastened with bronze screws -- and I'm trying to figure out if what I'm looking at is cosmetic.

Here are some photos (in the Nordic Eagle folder):
Photos (http://photos.yahoo.com/jmbaker2)

FRAMES
On both counters there is a row of about 7 frames with cracks about halfway up the topsides. In almost all cases the cracks are only about half way through the frame. I've read about sistering and laminating in new wood -- since the breaks are consistent should I not consider sistering or doubling them? I'm also wondering what would cause it -- the bend is tighter in the bilge and there are no cracks there. I suppose if the planks are moving it can wait a bit since the boat is in the water.

TRANSOM
The starboard corner of the transom is heavily discolored in a 2 foot by 1 foot section. The teak decks were replaced about 2 years ago and it could date from then. Can I sand this out, just paint it (assuming the leak is fixed) or does the wood in this corner need to be replaced? It doesn't seem soft but I can't say I have a well tuned ear.

Enjoy the pictures. Love to hear what you think, since I'm fairly new to all of this. There are two other boats in folders that are rare for the US. Vilia, a 1910 Belfast Lough Gaff One-design, and Crystal, a 1928 Fred Sheppard Bermudian Cutter.

John

[ 05-26-2002, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: JMB ]

[Hugh Paterson]

JMB, you got a survey report on the damage? If not consider one. Looked at the photos, nice boat but none of the dodgy bits you mentioned, we need more detail.

Shug.

[Hugh Paterson]

Ok Doki got the gist of it, a gremlin in my gogglebox, got the photos of the dodgy bits on my second attempt, some of it looks like grey areas where water penetration on the transom and varnish has broken down the surface. The frames need attention, I would suspect from the nature of the cracks compression from a crunch, (Dockside or whack from another boat) for instance. Cannot comment on the beams up front without a closer look, get a surveyor to give you a written report on current condition and to suggest urgent remidial work and/or a course of
repairs that can be done less urgently. Sisters for the broken frames would be applicable for a quick fix, but would detract from the appearance
of the boat if that was important to you. And of course, a surveyors report helps when you haggle
for a reduction in purchase price taking into account all the work required, still worth chasing though ;)

[WFK]

John;

Looking over your pictures, except for the broken frames, without getting in there and poking around I'd say the other maint. that needs to be done is mostly cosmetic. In regards to the transom, the picture really shows nothing too serious going on in the corner of the transom. If it was really serious I'd think the paint would be gone as well. If you can reach that point from down below you could tell in short order if water intrusion has reard it's ugly head . If it has, then this needs to be dealt with soon. Obviously water has for some reason has gotten behind the finish. Again I'd looking above decks as well as below for possible causes. It looks like there's some hardware on top of the transom. Has this been properly bedded? My guess if you want to get this transom back to a bright finish you'll have to sand as well as bleach with oxalic acid.
As far as the frames? roll the dice, who knows how they broke, very possible they slightly cracked when installed. I'd sister along side. The companion way is of concern to me because of the staining half way up the coaming. No point in re-varnishing until you can find out why this has happened. If the boat has a slight heel while docked, the water could simply not be able to fully drain and just wick up this corner.
Like I said, really tough to help without getting in there and doing some digging around. Nice boat!!

Bill

[Tuomas Raivio]

JMB,

The boat seems to be Havsörn II, probably made by Storebro Yachts in Sweden. I have Havsörn I, the 31 feet version of the boat. The quality of work in my boat is excellent and I'd assume this is the case in this boat as well. However, the condition of the boat shows that it has not been taken care of very well in the recent years. If the negligence has continued several years, you may expect problems.

Do not sister the ribs, it will look bad. Since they do not bend too much around the crack, and since most likely there will be only small movement in the area, I suggest glueing and reriveting or screwing a long, sloped patch on the cracks.

You will not get rid of the black colour in the transom. The varnish shows signs of getting loose (white areas). Still paint will probably stay there after a proper drying and impregnation.

The loose varnish (is it that?) in the forepeak roof, i.e., the bottom of the deck reveals that the deck is (or has been) leaking. May be a nasty job to fix, check carefully by spraying water on the deck and monitoring the leaks for a long enough time.

Check two additional things:

1. It is possible that rain water can reach the inner of the structures in the backpart of the box where you stay during sailing (sorry, don't know the English word) through the back corners of the mahogany "walls" around the box. Check (may be very difficult to approach) the condition of the deck and structures from below around the box. Rot there is very difficult and laborious to fix without dismantling the box.

2. If the back of the keel is made of solid wood (the iron keel is only in the front) , check for freeze damages (shows up as "superswollen" wood). Relatively easy to fix by replacing. However, the boat needs to be standing on something else than the keel, which may mean that you need a professional to do it.

Don't get too frightened by this, the project seems a nice one and the boat design is excellent!

If you are interested on the roots of the design, there is a book called "Sköna båtar seglar väl" ("Beautiful boats sail well") on the boats designed by Olle Enderlein, published by the Swedish Maritime Museum. Yes, in Swedish, but with lots of nice pictures smile.gif

[Tuomas Raivio]

Sorry, the book was "Vackra båtar seglar väl". Author is Ingrid Kaijser.

[JMB]

Thank you all folks -- that is great information.

I was hoping I'm looking at a primarily cosmetic "restoration" since it is a first shot at it for me. Spent 5 years painting houses but can't say I'm ready for interior joinery.

The boat is Storebro built -- I know the yard is one of Sweden's biggest and still doing quite a bit of powerboat construction -- great to hear the boats have a good reputation.

It has been owned by an elderly gentleman and it is hasn't been looked after for a few years, but he did have a full written survey done almost every year until a year ago -- checking up on the yard I'd say. The height of the cracks could be about right for a fuel dock, although the topsides aren't scarred.

Thanks again for the review and comments -- I'll let you all know if I can get the price down to a good level. There are other things -- original engine, old electrics--but that actually seems a bit easier.

John