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TimH
11-03-2008, 03:21 PM
Yea or nay?

Yeadon
11-03-2008, 03:36 PM
Enforcement has been a total waste of taxpayer dollars. They should legalize it, grow it as crops and tax the distribution. Turn a negative into a positive.

hokiefan
11-03-2008, 04:18 PM
Pot should be treated just like alcohol. What you do in the safety of your own home is your business. Drive under the influence, and you're busted. Work under the influence, and you're fired. Pot stays in the body longer than alcohol, users may need to factor that into their thinking, but I'm not sure how long the impairment lasts relative to alcohol. I have essentially no experience with which to compare.

Cheers,

Bobby

Tylerdurden
11-03-2008, 04:24 PM
When one adds in the true benefits of growing hemp for industrial/commercial use it becomes more than logical.

TimH
11-03-2008, 04:43 PM
Since most people think it should be legal, why is it illegal?

TimH
11-03-2008, 04:46 PM
I dont care for it myself, but dont have a problem if others do.

ahp
11-03-2008, 05:46 PM
Yes. We have had a War on Drugs, a War on Poverty, and Wars on...? Have we ever won? We have created careers and burocrates. What if coke were legal and cheap? A lot of people would destroy themselves, but now being illegal we have a very prosperous criminal class. Which is worse? Does this make me a liberal or a conservative? So many Questions.

George Roberts
11-03-2008, 06:51 PM
"They should legalize it, grow it as crops and tax the distribution. Turn a negative into a positive."

Then we can reduce the income tax on the rich.

The549
11-03-2008, 06:52 PM
Yes. We have had a War on Drugs, a War on Poverty, and Wars on...? Have we ever won? We have created careers and burocrates. What if coke were legal and cheap? A lot of people would destroy themselves, but now being illegal we have a very prosperous criminal class. Which is worse? Does this make me a liberal or a conservative? So many Questions.
Point is though, under your logic we should outlaw alcohol. Raise your hand if you haven't known an abused child due to an alcohol problem.

The549
11-03-2008, 06:55 PM
I would add that I think that we should draw the line at hardcore drugs such as coke because I think basic facts show it to be one big level worse than alcohol, cigarettes, weed. I doubt legalizing weed would have the same type of effects as legalizing more hardcore drugs.

Phillip Allen
11-03-2008, 06:56 PM
we tried banning alcohol...caused a lot of death and mayhem...so does pot

Lew Barrett
11-03-2008, 07:09 PM
The evidence suggests pot is a gateway drug. It's possible that legalizing it would reduce that negative side effect, which would be to the good, as obtaining it would no longer require disregard of the law.

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-03-2008, 07:16 PM
We are up to our ears in other political problems. Do we have to go thru' this right now?

mmd
11-03-2008, 07:19 PM
I think that the gateway is through the illegal sellers who would like to introduce their clients to products with a higher profit margin. Put the pot in the legal retail market and the gateway is avoided.

Yeadon
11-03-2008, 07:36 PM
We are up to our ears in other political problems. Do we have to go thru' this right now?

It's just another thing worth fixing.

Lew, I question if the drug is really a gateway, or if the phenom of getting to have something that you're not supposed to have is what leads to the next worst thrill.

Bob Adams
11-03-2008, 07:59 PM
Yes. We have had a War on Drugs, a War on Poverty, and Wars on...? Have we ever won? We have created careers and burocrates. What if coke were legal and cheap? A lot of people would destroy themselves, but now being illegal we have a very prosperous criminal class. Which is worse? Does this make me a liberal or a conservative? So many Questions.

Coke WAS legal and cheap, when alcohol was illegal. What people want, they will get. Where there is a market, there will be a supply. Most of the United States drug laws are extremely racist in origin, fears of drug crazed blacks defiling white women was the genisis of many. What horsecrap.

stevebaby
11-03-2008, 09:33 PM
The evidence suggests pot is a gateway drug. It's possible that legalizing it would reduce that negative side effect, which would be to the good, as obtaining it would no longer require disregard of the law. I would suggest that if there is such a thing as a gateway drug, then nicotine would be the most likely culprit.
I don't think many non-smokers would smoke pot, and from what I've seen, almost all illegal drug users smoke cigarettes.
I agree with legalisation, for all the reasons advanced by the tobacco producers for the legalisation of their drug.

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-03-2008, 09:39 PM
It's just another thing worth fixing.

Lew, I question if the drug is really a gateway, or if the phenom of getting to have something that you're not supposed to have is what leads to the next worst thrill.

When those Neocon whiners start bitching tomorrow this discussion will fade to black.

jack grebe
11-03-2008, 09:43 PM
fears of drug crazed blacks defiling white women was the genisis of many.
So maybe we should make "drug crazed blacks" legal
and outlaw white women.

It doesn't matter if something is legal or not, there
is always someone ready to push the envelope.

Tylerdurden
11-04-2008, 05:11 AM
"The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." Ayn Rand

2.5 million and counting, far more than any other state on the planet.

Bill Lowe
11-04-2008, 05:33 AM
Yes we need change.

seanz
11-04-2008, 05:51 AM
I think that the gateway is through the illegal sellers who would like to introduce their clients to products with a higher profit margin. Put the pot in the legal retail market and the gateway is avoided.

Close, but no cigar.....;)
All that is required to break organized crimes cash-flow and free-up police resources is to decriminalize pot. By making cultivation and possession legal you remove the need to sell it. It looks like a weed, how hard could it be to grow?
As most countries are placing restrictions of one kind or another on tobacco introducing another type of smoke to the retail market would be a bit hypocritical.
:)


"The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." Ayn Rand

2.5 million and counting, far more than any other state on the planet.

Rand should have smoked........
Who is John Galt?
Maybe he's all of us, maybe he's nobody......wow........ Don't let the Man bum you out.


If you type "Don't let the Man bum you out" it seems to mean something different from when you say it out loud.
:D

James McMullen
11-04-2008, 09:17 AM
I live next to B.C. Canada (I can see Canada from my house!) where the bud is more or less completely decriminalized and ubiquitous. You can walk out on the top deck of the B.C. Ferries and see that "smokers" don't even bother to try to be discrete. . . . .

And you know what? Their society hasn't collapsed or anything! In fact, B.C. is a very pleasant place to visit and I'm proud to have them as neighbors. I wish our own state could relax and unclench enough to shed its Puritan heritage enough to see that Prohibition has never worked--it only enriches and strengthens the outlaws and criminals of the Black Market it creates.

And I don't even smoke pot myself. Don't care for it. My own drug of choice is one (or more) of the local microbrews. . . . .

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
11-04-2008, 01:11 PM
The tally on this poll tells the tale - there's hardly an adult in the country who can justify the status quo....

Watch these folk struggle:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RLkOddgjYuY

Lew Barrett
11-04-2008, 01:35 PM
I would suggest that if there is such a thing as a gateway drug, then nicotine would be the most likely culprit.
I don't think many non-smokers would smoke pot, and from what I've seen, almost all illegal drug users smoke cigarettes.
I agree with legalisation, for all the reasons advanced by the tobacco producers for the legalisation of their drug.

Many CDCs consider nicotine a gateway drug. It's just that you don't have to break the law to obtain it. I don't know if there's any substantiating evidence, but my observation is that most addicts also smoke. But, I do know people who smoke pot but not cigarettes, just as I know people who drink alcohol but don't smoke. In fact, amongst dedicated wine drinkers (think "afficianados) ) , smoking is usually verbotten.

Popeye
11-04-2008, 01:37 PM
as if tobacco is good for you

bob winter
11-04-2008, 01:41 PM
It seems to me that legalizing pot and hash would have a couple of very positive side effects. First, it would generate tax revenues and, second, and possibly more importantly, it would not require consumers to come in contact with the criminals who currently flog the stuff.

It is many years since I last consumed hash and I was never more than a social user but, as I recall, the effects of using it were a good deal less than consuming alcohol.

Popeye, the question of whether or not tobacco, alcohol or pot are good for you is completely beside the point. The point is that some people are going to engage in unhealthy activities. If we prohibit tocacco, for instance, it will make it all that more attractive, drive the price up, and deprive the government of tax revenues.

Popeye
11-04-2008, 01:44 PM
hi bob

how's it going up there in vast and scenic ontario ?

bob winter
11-04-2008, 01:53 PM
Great, Popeye. The economy seems to be on its way to hell and we are going to receive some transfer payments for the first time in history. We could do with some tax revenues from pot sales. How are things on the Rock?

Lew Barrett
11-04-2008, 01:55 PM
It is many years since I last consumed hash and I was never more than a social user but, as I recall, the effects of using it were a good deal less than consuming alcohol.


Pretty clearly the effect varies by quantity, quality and individual. An ounce of alcohol poured into two hundred pounds of human and spread across an hour is probably going to be considerably less debilitating than the consumption of a large quantity of hash or pot that is high in THC and sucked down rapidly. They are growing some really potent weed out there these days. So I'd say "depends." But overall, I'd agree that few people on earth are more off putting and less confidence inspiring than an habitual sot deep in his cups!

Popeye
11-04-2008, 02:12 PM
How are things on the Rock?

historic

i hear there is talk of people wanting to tow nova scotia out to sea and sink it

Three Cedars
11-04-2008, 03:22 PM
[QUOTE=James McMullen;1999249]I live next to B.C. Canada (I can see Canada from my house!) where the bud is more or less completely decriminalized and ubiquitous. You can walk out on the top deck of the B.C. Ferries and see that "smokers" don't even bother to try to be discrete. . . . .

And you know what? Their society hasn't collapsed or anything! In fact, B.C. is a very pleasant place to visit and I'm proud to have them as neighbors. I wish our own state could relax and unclench enough to shed its Puritan heritage enough to see that Prohibition has never worked--it only enriches and strengthens the outlaws and criminals of the Black Market it creates.

QUOTE]

Well here in Canada .... our current minority Conservative government is more in line with the US Republicans when it comes to marijuana.

The problem with marijuana in Canada is large scale indoor grow-ops . MJ being illegal makes it more expensive to buy which creates incentive for organized criminals to buy or rent homes , turn them into grow-ops and defend them from other criminals with guns , which leads to killings and reprisals.

On the other hand you have good people who use pot to relax , some of them grow a few plants for their own use and are quite harmless. Some people I know are habitual pot smokers some are borderline alcoholics without a doubt the alcohol users have worse health and a greater threat to drive a vehicle impaired or become violent.

In many rural areas of BC , the resource based industries like logging, mining and fishing have seen former good paying seasonal jobs disappear so some of them grow MJ for income.

Canada is not as liberal minded as a lot of US people seem to think we have plenty of people who are pro-death penalty and the usual right wing position on issues.

gert
11-04-2008, 03:33 PM
From a BC ers point of view?

NO

It is mostly an export product. I suspect it's illegality south of the boarder keeps the quality up; and we wouldn't want to see that slide...would we?

The problem the narcs up here have is that Americans pay for their pot with hard drugs and guns. If you would just stick to cash I think we all would live longer and happier. ;)

skuthorp
11-04-2008, 03:34 PM
TimH: "Since most people think it should be legal, why is it illegal?"
Too much money is being made by too many influential people for it ever to be made legal. And DOW had a big influence in the original decision as it made a better fabric than their petrtoleum-based synthetic products.

"Interest in hemp first came to light in the west in the 1930’s when hemp was actually described as a ‘billion dollar crop’ and a bright future was predicted. However it was not to pass. What follows is a story that is fascinating, full of conspiracy and media manipulation any spin-doctor would be proud of. The ultimate triumph of self-interest. The biggest reason for this burial was that in the 1930’s Dupont obtained patents for making nylon from coal, paper from trees and plastic from oil, and didn’t want to see hemp as a potential competitor. Remarkably but not surprisingly, the companies chief financial backer at the time, Andre Mellon, owned large swathes of timber land and oil. Mellon appointed his nephew-in-law Harry Anslinger to the Federal Bureau of Narcotics while other Dupont backers such as the Hearst newspaper group began to influence public opinion towards the perceived evils of marijuana. This also saw the rise of the pulp fiction novels with wonderfully lurid covers and titles such as ‘I was a slave to marijuana’ and films such as Reefer Madness.
Basically this propaganda strategy worked and in 1937 Congress outlawed hemp. The actual science was buried."
http://democratequalssocialist.wordpress.com/2007/11/30/dioxin-dow-dupont-hemp/