on loaning tools

[David N.]

Decided to start a new thread . Do you loan tools ?? , do you not loan some tools but loan other's ?? .
I let friends come in and use my welding eqt. , no prob . use my drill presse's , ( I sharpen the bit's , so dont ask !! ) no prob . air tools ( all except my 7 1/4 air cir saw ) , chop saw's , band saw's , cut off saws , table saws , small polisher's no prob .
Tool's I dont loan , Meat Axe , 7 1/4 air cir saw , big polisher and any of my drill bitt's over 1" , I have bitt's up to 3" ,last my files . It is just a file , well my aluminum files are about $30 - $40 a pop , those are my pet peeve's

[mmd]

My mechanic has a sign on his toolbox that says, "I'll loan you my tools if you loan me your wife." :D

That being said, I used to lend tools, but got tired of having them come back (if they came back) trashed from improper use. So I went for a while loaning tools only to those who knew how to use and care for them, but after a couple of times of being shat upon along the lines of "Well, you loaned it to X, is he a better friend than me?", I found that the easiest way to maintain my friendships and tools was to not loan tools. I'll bring my tools and help do the job, or you can bring your project to my shop for help, but my tools don't leave my shop unless I'm attached to them. Interestingly, the ones that understand this position are the ones I'd loan tools to; the ones who get pissy about it usually are the ones whom I am suspicious of regarding their tool skills.

[John of Phoenix]

Mine is more "who" than "what". ;) If a loaned tool comes back dirty, I'll make a point of cleaning it in front of the borrower right then. If I borrow a tool, I'll return it cleaner or sharper than I borrowed it, along with a little liquid "thank you very much". I once borrowed a Skilsaw that had a useless blade on it and returned it with a new one. Little things go a long way. Both ways.

[Bayboat]

JohnT, you can borrow my tools any time. Especially those that need a little deferred maintenance.

Otherwise, my approach is much like mmd's, honed from long experience.

However, I'm in a kind of special situation. I run boatbuilding classes, for builders of their own boats and for beginners who build plywood-lapstrake boats. We supply the large, stationary tools like table saw, bandsaw, jointer, bench sander, cutoff saw, shaper, router table, and a pretty full set of hand power tools. Theoretically, the students are supposed to supply their own hand tools. But few of them can afford an adequate kit. Among the other instructors and me, we have a pretty full kit. It is necessary to let the students use them if they are going to learn how to get the boats built right. Our policy is best described as "supervised loaning."

When we percieve that a hand tool is needed, we trot it out (from locked cabinets). Before starting to use the tool for the first time, the student gets a brief lecture on how it's used, how to adjust it, and other pertinent advice. Also we often begin with a demonstration of how best to use it. Then the student signs it out and works with it with us looking over his shoulder until we're satisfied that things are going well. When he/she is fininshed with, say, an edge tool, there's a hands-on lesson on how to sharpen or hone the blade or iron, to make it ready for the next user. Or how to clean it up. Then the tool gets signed back in. All this is different from loaning a tool to someone who will take it out from under our supervision. We don't do that.

[reddog]

I'm with mmd on this one.I'll possibly loan out a crappy tool in the hopes that it wouldn't be asked for again.The people who would respect and use 'em properly don't ask.Give 'em a Lee Valley catalogue or send 'em to the flea markets.Cold nosed and hard hearted,you bet.
By the way,your wife had better be a knock out if you want to get your hands on my Bailey# 8.
Earl

[casem]

Hey Boyd, that reminds me, do you still have my Fuller countersinks and flush-cut saw?

[Wiley Baggins]

I will, occasionally, lend one back. ;)

[Memphis Mike]

I don't loan anything I can't afford to
replace myself.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

This must be an older wiser thing because I agree with Michael... I just don't do it unless I'm attached. I have just plain lost too many tools the other way.

OH BIG DEAL FOR THE DAY!!! :eek: :D

I get this general classified little mag every two weeks for this area. The ad said "Old woodworking tools and machinery" I phoned. Big old wood lathe with wooden bed and cast head and tail stock all the rests and chisels. $250 cdn
and then he says "I have quite a few planes" I say what kind ..He says "oh wooden ones, baileys, stanleys, a couple dozen." I am going up on tuesday morning at ten. He is 80 and doesn't go there on the weekends (his shop) but tuesday is okay.. I will report back :D

No you can't borrow them. :D but i might buy them all and sell the excess.

[ 01-17-2003, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Peter Malcolm ]

[Bob Cleek]

Anybody who'd ask to borrow a tool obviously doesn't know enough about tools to deserve to be loaned one. Sometimes I'll offer to loan somebody a tool... If I feel like it and they know enough not to ask.

[David N.]

of course tools leaving the shop are a different matter , I guess I should of said that . There are times for that too however .
I have not lost any tools because I loaned them . I have had tools walk off while on a job site , and I have had tools flat out stolen right out of locked van ( kissed off all my wrenching and machinist tools that way )
And then today a book ( Ed Monk no less ) came home , that did take some hounding !!.
There I was putting my tools away and presto , A 12'x 3'work table showed up , was wondering what happened to it ?? , did not remember loaning it out ( must be c.r.s. ?? ) .
For the most part , most of my eqt. is pretty good size , if any one can pick them up , I will hold the door open ( no fork lift's or cherry pickers ) .

[PeterSibley]

Well you can't own every tool you're ever goning to need..so I borrow and I lend, but only to those I know and trust.I know some guys I wouldn't lend a lawnmower to.....others are safe with anything.Me I don't borrow often,but if youre gonig to borrow you've got to lend! smile.gif

[Nick Riggio]

Anything you lend or borrow needs to come back in as good as or better condition than it left.

[htom]

Sorry to say, I think I've probably lost more tools through loaning than to thieves. Finally learned to keep my tool boxes locked unless they were in my home, and even then some of them have walked away.

[wolfietuk]

I have two sets of tools. Shop tools and truck tools. Truck tools are used on the job. Usually cheap crap that will get the job done. And I will loan these out occasionally. If it is a good friend who needs a door planed I will go do it for him.
I have one friend with who we share tools. He refinnishes furniture, I build cabinets. Occasionally one or the other will have a tool the other needs. This is a special case of old roommate/fraternity brother/used to date my sister/had longer than my wife/has as many tools as me just ocasionally we borrow specialized tools from each other. If you get that close you can borrow my tools.

Rick

[imported_Daniel]

I used to lend tools, but only to those I thought I knew real well and could trust to repair or replace any that get damaged. I was doing some work at my sisters house and had left my Porter Cable circular saw there. When I came back the next day, it was lying on the patio, outside. Someone, and I know it wasnt her, either her Einstein boyfriend or the guy I had working for me had totally trashed the saw. You could see the grooves in the cement patio slabs where they had tried to cut wood, on the ground with the blade set very deep. I was livid, whoever did it (no one would fess up) actually even ruined the drive! So, no more tool lending, but friends are more than welcome to come to the shop and work on their projects.

[Ron Williamson]

I have no problem lending anything to anyone who can stand the evil-eye and constant harrassment that accompanies it.
Most people don't dare ask,but the ones who do,know the rules.
1)If you are going to borrow something,tell me,otherwise I consider it STOLEN and you will suffer.
2)Don't wreck it,unless you want the same done to your tools.DON'T think that I won't wreck your stuff out of spite.
3)Be generous.I know guys who won't let you use their "good" tools(though they are crappy),yet want to use my stuff because theirs is too small or not handy.
R

[Roger Stouff]

Only a handful of people have this right:

A friend who is a general contractor. He has been my friend for decades, and has done SO much to help me when I got interested in working with wood. In the course of his work, he brings me a lot of reclaimed lumber. Last load was probably 600 bf of antique Doug fir. He has a key to my house and my shop with blanket permission to use any tool here. Since he lives about 30 miles away now but still has many customers in my area, he often comes by to use my larger tools rather than driving all the way to his shop. He always leaves them cleaner than he found them. I can also borrow anything from him without pause.

Another pal, who is just a consumate perfectionist by nature, and started woodworking later than I did, but is meticulous, careful and responsible. This is the guy who sprayed my boat in the auto body shop where he is manager.

Have no horror stories to tell, fortunately!

[Armedmariner]

There are a few of us here in WV that borrow tools from one another. One guy in particular has EVERYTHING. And if he doesn't have it his dad will. Right now in my tool box is his dad's electric hand plane. A truly wonderful tool indeed. In return for the use of this plane I will help him from time to time (recently moved a large curio cabinet across town for him). We all work on Habitat and Christmas in April houses together and we will generally only loan tools to people who have proven by observed use that they can handle the thing.

Having said that, my son and I are constantly looking for new tools that we don't have to add to our workshop. We recently got AIR. You know that scene from Tom Hank's movie where he is a Castaway where he makes fire? He says, "I have made FIRE. I have FIRE." He says it with such gusto. Well, after we set up the air tools we found we were foolish to ever go without them. After air nailing a small lazarette together to hold in place for epoxy I proudly proclaimed to my son at the top of my lungs, "We have AIR!"

You have to have seen the movie to understand.

Anyway, enjoyable post on this topic. Tools are really special. I have a few tools I will NOT lend out. Under any circumstances except to this guy I refer to above. Why? I don't know. Special to me I guess.

One tool I WON'T loan at all to anyone is my Shidaiwa 550 chainsaw. Why? It is my friend. It has cut more timber than a saw it size has a right to cut and it keeps on keepin on and if I lend it to some bloke it will be broken when I get it back, I just know it.

Cheers mates!

[Bruce Hooke]

My upstairs neighbors know it's OK to borrow basic handtools from my shop (screwdrivers, hammers, etc. - NOTHING with a cutting edge) but to ask about anything else. I figure a rare tool of this sort that gets lost or damaged is worth sacrificing to good relations with the neighbors. So far the only losses are one screwdriver that went missing and one wheel on my shop-vac got broken.

None of my other friends in the area know enough about woodworking to have much interest in borrowing tools, which is probably a good thing :D . There are a number of cousins to whom I would be happy to loan tools to if they were close enough for it to be practical (I wish they were). I know their skills (one has been a professional woodworker for something like 20 years...) and more importantly I know that I can trust them. Furthermore, one of them was kind enough to pass along to me many tools that had been his father's and before that our grandfather's...

[capt jake]

Sorry to say, I think I've probably lost more tools through loaning than to thieves. Finally learned to keep my tool boxes locked unless they were in my home, and even then some of them have walked away. As Htom put it.

I am in total agreement with this post. I don't loan out tools anymore. I think Mr. Cleek pointed out some good reasons why not to.

While I was at work, my wife loaned out my brand new trim saw. It came back with only 1/2 of the carbide teeth on it. That's when I decidedd NO More! Bring it over here and I will gladly fix whatever your problem is. Lending tools to somebody else to 'fix' it, nope!

[imported_Spissgatter W-9]

Anybody who'd ask to borrow a tool obviously doesn't know enough about tools to deserve to be loaned one. Sometimes I'll offer to loan somebody a tool... If I feel like it and they know enough not to ask. Balderdash! It just means they don't know Bob Cleek. Whether or not I lend a tool "depends." It depends upon whether they are a good friend, are capable of using it and would either return it in as good a shape or replace it. It would be a big waste of time for them to hover around me until I asked their intentions.

It is also a waste of resources. I had a special saw blade made to rip a uniform groove for calking. I used it once and not likely to use it again. My shipwright friend asked to borrow it for a small job. I mailed it to Canada. He returned it promptly (sharpened and dipped in protectant) when he was through. To suggest that he doesn't know how to use tools is untennable.

To me sharing seems like a friendly, efficient way of finishing a boat particularly when you aren't in the boatbuilding business.

[Boyd]

Casem,

I do have your countersink set and flush cut saw. I still need them for a few more days. My wife wants a new mantle and I want nice countersunk holes in the masonry work. It worked great the first hole, but it got alot slower after that. I am not sure what is wrong with your plug cutter, it does not seem to work very well in brick.

[TomRobb]

My grandfather (cabnet maker/finish carpenter) retired and my father spent several days hauling home his tools (he had no truck.) My uncles ended up divying them up amongst themselves when the old man died. They got loaned out to various friends and neighbors. All that's left are a tennon marking gadget, a nice bevel square, and a busted jack plane of uncertain parentage that I have, and a mitre box my aunt said I can come and get. The rest is gone :mad:
Lend you tools if you lend the wife? At least the wife will go back home better than when she arrived :D

[Hugh Paterson]

You can have all my GRP tools if ya want :D But no one gets my Cliftons or Japanese chisels ;) No Sir, NO ONE tongue.gif
Shug.

[Dave Hadfield]

Yeah, I loaned an axe once to a fella who split firewood on a cement patio. The axe looked like billhook when he was done.

I have borrowed, yet I do not loan. I just accept the moral bankruptcy of this position and carry on. Mind you I do offer to come over and BRING my tools to help with the job.

One thing that I would never, ever loan is my chainsaw. Another is my Ilitis trail axe. Or my rack of chisels. Or my favourite layout tools. Yeah, it's a fairly lengthy list.

If I do lend I assume the tool is lost forever. That makes it such a pleasant surprise when it is returned. (I should do the same with books....)

[David N.]

I know we are all tool junkie's , and I buy a lot of older machines and restore them . As I look under the bench , there is stuff there you would not belive , some of which I have never even used . A short list
1.) portable key way cutter . saves the cost of hauling out to pull the prop shaft.
2.) Tape's and die's , up to 2" , complete set inc. a 5' handle .
3.) ream's up to 2"
4.) 8ga. nibbler ( elec . hand op ., I bought this for one job , just been sitting for 10yr's , cost new $1200 smackarooney's .)

I did sell ( it was painful ) a lot of STUFF , I did really honest , and damn sorry I did