Ohio Judge Rules Homeless can use Park Benches for Voting Address

[Rick-Mi]

What is the world coming to?

http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/28/ajudgerule.html?sid=101



.

[skuthorp]

There are plenty of instances of hollow trees, barrells, cans on stumps etc being postal adresses for stockmen, buffalo shooters, itinerant shearers etc. At least one of a barrell on an island as a mail exchange for passing ships. Why not a park bench, though it should not be beyond the wit of city authorities to provide a communal post box address for the homeless. Even a church maybe?

[Keith Wilson]

Should homeless people be allowed to vote? If not, why not? What about those who live on boats?

[brad9798]

Can a CRACK pipe be used as an address? Or at least the gas station from which they bought it?

WHAT JOKE!

Sorry, Keith ... but where does it end!

[Rick-Mi]

WHAT JOKE!

Sorry, Keith ... but where does it end!



When it comes to situational ethics there is no end. But, this is just another in a loooooong list of examples why America is on a downhill slide. Hope enough people wake up before its too late.....




.

[Katherine]

Can a CRACK pipe be used as an address? But you're only allowed one voting address.

[Wayne Jeffers]

Should people lose their citizenship if they lose their home?

I think not!

Wayne

[Michael Beckman]

Can a CRACK pipe be used as an address? Or at least the gas station from which they bought it?

WHAT JOKE!

Sorry, Keith ... but where does it end!

Yeah, if this continues we might even allow black people and women to vote. What a slippery slope.

[John of Phoenix]

Should homeless people be allowed to vote? I wonder how many people these days find themselves homeless and/or jobless, or soon will be, because of bad government policy.

Yeah, right, just completely disenfranchise the whole lot and deny them their vote.

[Rick-Mi]

While at the same time homeless in Ohio use a park bench for their voting address, up to 70% of our military ballots from personel risking their lives for our freedom overseas are being thrown out. In spite of the Virginia Attorney General speaking out that technicalities do not need to make military votes ineligible, the heavily democratic Fairfax County in Virginia has already thrown out at least 63 military ballots because they didn't have a witness sign them. We live in a sick world folks and are seeing with out own eyes then monumental battle between good and evil.


.

[ishmael]

I'm with Keith and Wayne et al. Just because you may be down on your luck and without an address shouldn't keep you from voting.

Keeping track of it presents some logistical problems.

[Wayne Jeffers]

Perhaps we should return to the days when only white males who own at least 50 acres free and clear can vote. :rolleyes:

Wayne

[Phillip Allen]

gotta be a way for them to vote without the problem of multi votes

[John of Phoenix]

gotta be a way for them to vote without the problem of multi votes
Who said multi votes was an issue? This isn't a fraud problem, it's a question of ensuring a citizen's right to vote .

[Wayne Jeffers]

gotta be a way for them to vote without the problem of multi votes

Of course.

Register them for the precinct where they normally sleep or where they get mail. Sounds like that's what the judge ordered.

Only one precinct, only one vote.

Wayne

[MiddleAgesMan]

... where does it end!

It will end when you can find judges who would be good Repugnant picks for the Supreme Court. Such judges would disqualify not only the homeless but anyone unemployed for more than a few months, occupants of flea bag hotels, homeless shelters, you name it.

Be honest--is that what you would prefer?

[George Roberts]

There is a universal registration form - accepted by all states. For those who don't have an address there is room for a map.

The purpose of the address or map is so that one can verify the voter lives in the jurisdiction.

[Rigadog]

Are we not men?

[Keith Wilson]

Rick, I think everyone legally qualified should be able to vote. Soldiers in the field, certainly. Homeless people - why not? You didn't answer the question.
We live in a sick world folks and are seeing with out own eyes then monumental battle between good and evil.The world has never been any better than it is now. A brief study of history will show that very clearly. There may be a battle between good and evil going on, but it's a bit presumptuous to be sure your preferred side is the good one (in Christian terms, the sin of pride) . Last I checked, no one political party or ideology had a monopoly on virtue.

[Tom Montgomery]

There is more to this story than today's Columbus Dispatch told. From a Wall Street Journal blog:

Homeless Advocates Reach Agreement on Ohio Voter ID Requirement
Amy Merrick reports on election battles in Ohio.

Advocates for the homeless dropped a motion on Friday for a preliminary injunction against Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner that contended the state’s voter-ID law is unconstitutional.

The Northeast Ohio Coalition for the Homeless, a Cleveland group, withdrew the motion after reaching an agreement with Brunner’s office to create consistent guidelines for processing and counting provisional ballots. Brunner issued a complex, 10-page directive to county boards of election that set specific guidelines for accepting such ballots.

Under a relatively new state law, Ohio residents are required to show identification, such as a driver’s license, at the polls. Those who lack ID cards – a group that includes many homeless residents — are asked to cast provisional ballots, which are counted 10 days after an election, once the election boards verify those voters’ eligibility. Many voters are hesitant to cast provisional ballots because they may be discarded for a number of reasons. Some voters may be required to return to the board of elections with identification.

The homeless coalition argued that because the boards didn’t all follow the same standards for accepting provisional ballots, some voters could be unfairly disenfranchised. After the election, the group plans to resume pursuing its claim, filed in U.S. District Court in Columbus, that the law is unconstitutional, said Caroline Gentry, an attorney for the coalition.

She said the group still is concerned about whether people with no fixed address will be able to vote, but she said she expects the question to be resolved by Election Day.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/10/24/homeless-advocates-reach-agreement-on-ohio-voter-id-requirement/?mod=googlenews_wsj

Why should anyone care WHO votes so long as they only cast ONE vote? This law was a Republican measure - passed along strict party lines - that was signed into a law by a Republican governor who was subsequently booted (Bob Taft: the first Ohio governor to ever be charged with a crime while in office). It was immediately challenged in court. The intent was NEVER to address voter fraud. The intent was to EXCLUDE a certain class of citizen from voting.

I'm with you on the good vs. evil thing, Rick. But you are deluding yourself if you think the GOP in Ohio is on the side of the angels.

You want to take care of voter fraud? Do it the way the Iraqi's did it: dip every voter's thumb in indelible ink. Then EVERYONE can vote ONCE. Good luck on that ever happening. The GOP would NEVER go along with any process that did not exclude certain people.

[CK 17]

all legal residents of this country should be allowed to vote--period! :mad:

The real issue is that some won't like who the homeless might vote for:mad:

[brad9798]

Tell me are no more than 16 ... perhaps 18 with this kind of STUPID post:


Yeah, if this continues we might even allow black people women to vote. What a slippery slope.

Last I heard, black people and WOMEN could vote ... not so sure about "black people women" though!

Grow up, dude!

You look entirely silly! ;)

[brad9798]

So, Beckman ... you are equating homeless folks with black people and women?

Man ... you sound kind of judgmental to me ... if not biggoted! :(

[Phillip Allen]

Who said multi votes was an issue? This isn't a fraud problem, it's a question of ensuring a citizen's right to vote .
I agree,,,no need to get defensive

[ccmanuals]

All citizens of legal age have a right to vote. PERIOD!!!!! No other qualifiers can be justified.

[Phillip Allen]

all legal residents of this country should be allowed to vote--period! :mad:

The real issue is that some don't who the homeless might vote for:mad:


they MUST vote of course...they will vote for anyone who promises them comfort or a bottle of muscatel...but they STILL get to vote!

[Phillip Allen]

all former felons must be able to vote...without a hassle

[Keith Wilson]

If voting for stupid reasons was sufficient to bar people from voting, we'd at least get the votes counted a lot quicker.

Again: Anyone who meets the legal requirements shuold be able to vote. Having a fixed address is not a requirement.

[MiddleAgesMan]

What's a former felon look like? ;)

[ccmanuals]

they MUST vote of course...they will vote for anyone who promises them comfort or a bottle of muscatel...but they STILL get to vote!

they couldn't be any dumber then some folks I saw on TV being interviewed outside a Palin rally that told the reporter that they would be afraid for their lives if a black moslem terriorist was in the white house!

[Michael Beckman]

So, Beckman ... you are equating homeless folks with black people and women?

Man ... you sound kind of judgmental to me ... if not biggoted! :(

There was a time when they couldn't vote. Now, it seems, the homeless are the ones being labeled not good enough to be citizens.


Can a CRACK pipe be used as an address? Or at least the gas station from which they bought it?
The homeless are nothing but crackheads? Get over yourself.

[Tom Montgomery]

all former felons must be able to vote...without a hassle
Nonsense.

As for:
they [the homeless] will vote for anyone who promises them comfort or a bottle of muscatel
Are you God? Can you look into a man's heart and determine his motivation? If you can, are you also going to exclude the CEO who is an alcoholic and/or cocaine abuser?

[Norman Bernstein]

all former felons must be able to vote...without a hassle

It depends on the state. For example, felons who were convicted in Florida, and live in Florida, may not vote.... felons who were convicted in New Jersey and live in Florida can vote.

I've always considered this to be especially stupid. If we release a felon after he/she serves time, we're hoping (sometimes hopelessly, but nonetheless) that they will become respectable, law-abiding citizens.... and voting is a right that encourages respect for the law. Personally, I'd make voting not only legal for released felons, but mandatory for those on probation!

[Tom Montgomery]

Rick-Mi: If you're concerned about the military being disenfranchised you should be OPPOSED to the Ohio Voter ID Law:

Ohio’s November 7, 2006, election was the first to apply the new voter ID requirements enacted in HB3.* After litigation in NEOCH v. Blackwell resulted in a consent order clarifying how those requirements should be applied, some precincts still experienced confusion.*

A representative of the Montgomery County Voter Protection Coalition, which ran a hotline for voters to report election problems, said that about a third of calls his organization received concerned complaints of poll workers requiring current address on driver’s licenses and state ID’s in violation of the NEOCH consent order.

Military voters were an issue of particular concern because, even after the consent order, military ID’s needed current addresses to permit regular voting. Military ID may pose hurdle at voting booth, Dayton Daily News, October 31, 2006. Military ID’s do not contain address information.

http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/election06/OhioElectionOverviewNovember2006.php

[Phillip Allen]

What's a former felon look like? ;)

I've heard all my life that convicted felons lost their voting rights...permanently...making all sentences into life-sentences

[Norman Bernstein]

I've heard all my life that convicted felons lost their voting rights...permanently...making all sentences into life-sentences

You heard wrong. Try doing a little research...who KNOWS what other illusions you're holding close to your heart! :D

[Phillip Allen]

Nonsense.

As for:
Are you God? Can you look into a man's heart and determine his motivation? If you can, are you also going to exclude the CEO who is an alcoholic and/or cocaine abuser?

Tom? are you alright?

[Phillip Allen]

It depends on the state. For example, felons who were convicted in Florida, and live in Florida, may not vote.... felons who were convicted in New Jersey and live in Florida can vote.

I've always considered this to be especially stupid. If we release a felon after he/she serves time, we're hoping (sometimes hopelessly, but nonetheless) that they will become respectable, law-abiding citizens.... and voting is a right that encourages respect for the law. Personally, I'd make voting not only legal for released felons, but mandatory for those on probation!


sounds good to me Norman...damn! we're gonna have to find something else to argue about aren't we?

[Phillip Allen]

It depends on the state. For example, felons who were convicted in Florida, and live in Florida, may not vote.... felons who were convicted in New Jersey and live in Florida can vote.



thanks for the vendication Norman

[Phillip Allen]

You heard wrong. Try doing a little research...who KNOWS what other illusions you're holding close to your heart! :D

you mean that ALL democrats aren't as pure as the driven snow?
(something else I've heard all my life...just ask Coose)

[Norman Bernstein]

sounds good to me Norman...damn! we're gonna have to find something else to argue about aren't we?

Phillip,

http://projectvote.org/fileadmin/ProjectVote/pdfs/felon_voting_laws_by_state_Sept_11_2008.pdf

The link has a full summary of felon voting laws in all states. (what isn't made clear is 'cross-state' issues; I don't think a felon from one state can be prohibited from voting in another state. I KNOW that's the case for the NJ/Florida I cited, however.)

[Phillip Allen]

I wonder if any of that has changed (to it's present form) since the 60' or 50's?

[Tom Montgomery]

The law regarding felon voting varies state by state: http://felonvoting.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=286

The twelve most restrictive states are Alabama, Arizona, Delaware, Florida, Kentucky, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, Tennessee, Virginia, and Washington and Wyoming. In these states a felony conviction may result in a permanent loss of voting rights.

Thirty-six other states allow felons to vote upon completion of either incarceration, parole, or probation.

Two states - Maine and Vermont - allow felons to vote from prison.

Philip: In your state, Arkansas, people with felony convictions may vote upon completion of all supervised release.

In Ohio & Michigan, a convicted felon may vote upon release from prison. They are among the LEAST restrictive states! A convicted felon may vote while on parole or probation! Yet the GOP in Ohio want to disenfranchise the homeless.

So it is the vast MINORITY of states where a felony conviction results in permanent disenfranchisement.

Frankly - when it comes to federal elections - I think it is arguable that this situation may violate the 14th amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

[brad9798]

When, Beckham, did I say homeless are crack-heads ...

Are you really that stupid that you simply missed the post ... or that you simply read into what you wanted to read into it?

IDIOT!

There was also a time when we did not have the wheel ... we did not have the automobile ... we were scared of polio ... etc.

What the hell point are your trying to make (VERY unsuccesfully)?!?!?? :confused:

:rolleyes:

[Phillip Allen]

actually Brad...it looked to me like you wanted to make a connection...I'll go back and look again

[Phillip Allen]

Okay
Brad, I looked...it still looks to me like a connection was sought...the second part of that post asks where the line should be drawn and I think that was answered too (elsewhere)...legal citizenship would be that line

[Wayne Jeffers]

Requiring an address for voter registration is an administrative (bureaucratic) detail, used for assigning a precinct, etc.

In most states, you are also required to provide your height, weight, eye color, and hair color to get a driver’s license. Bald people do not have a hair color. :eek: Should we deny bald people the right to drive because they can’t provide their hair color to put on the license?

Talk about bureaucratic idiocy!

Citizens at least 18 years old should be able to vote, period, with very limited exceptions. The rest is bullsh!t!

Wayne

[Tom Montgomery]

Requiring an address for voter registration is an administrative (bureaucratic) detail, used for assigning a precinct, etc.

Citizens at least 18 years old should be able to vote, period, with very limited exceptions. The rest is bullsh!t!

Wayne
Right. And the solution to voter fraud is simple. Even the Iraqis figured it out.

[Michael Beckman]

When, Beckham, did I say homeless are crack-heads ...

Are you really that stupid that you simply missed the post ... or that you simply read into what you wanted to read into it?

IDIOT!

There was also a time when we did not have the wheel ... we did not have the automobile ... we were scared of polio ... etc.

What the hell point are your trying to make (VERY unsuccesfully)?!?!?? :confused:

:rolleyes:

Heres my point:
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/285/slipperyslopeel4.png

[brad9798]

You HAVE answered me ... thank you, Michael!

It is OBVIOUS that you have no retort ... and it, really, does not lower my opinion of you ...

Simply stated, you've much to learn!

[Rick-Mi]

Rick-Mi: If you're concerned about the military being disenfranchised you should be OPPOSED to the Ohio Voter ID Law:

Tom, I realize you google like a mad man in a desperate attempt to make a point against me, but find yourself on the wrong side of the argument once again. Only someone who's compass does not point due north could equate voter ID laws (that demonstrate a voter is who they say they are) in Ohio, with disenfranchising those putting their lives on the line for us overseas in the military. :rolleyes:


.

[Phillip Allen]

Tom, I realize you google like a mad man in a desperate attempt to make a point against me, but find yourself on the wrong side of the argument once again. Only someone who's compass does not point due north could equate voter ID laws (that demonstrate a voter is who they say they are) in Ohio, with disenfranchising those putting their lives on the line for us overseas in the military. :rolleyes:


.

ya need to pick a better anology...

[Tom Montgomery]

Rick-Mi: I take it you oppose the Iraqi indelible ink solution to voter fraud?

I'll ask again: Why on earth would anyone be concerned about WHO is voting so long as they only vote ONCE? Why should anyone who is a citizen and over 18 be denied the right to vote at the polling station for lack of an ID showing an address? I mean, we are talking about people who have ALREADY REGISTERED TO VOTE!

The solution is so simple.

[Michael Beckman]

You HAVE answered me ... thank you, Michael!

It is OBVIOUS that you have no retort ... and it, really, does not lower my opinion of you ...

Simply stated, you've much to learn!
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/6992/capslockdemotivatetn0.jpg

[Michael Beckman]

Rick-Mi: I take it you oppose the Iraqi indelible ink solution to voter fraud?

I'll ask again: Why on earth would anyone be concerned about WHO is voting so long as they only vote ONCE? Why should anyone who is a citizen and over 18 be denied the right to vote at the polling station? I mean, we are talking about people who have ALREADY REGISTERED TO VOTE!

The solution is so simple.

Why should we sink so low as to acknowledge that poor people have rights?

[Rick-Mi]

Rick-Mi: I take it you oppose the Iraqi indelible ink solution to voter fraud?

I'll ask again: Why on earth would anyone be concerned about WHO is voting so long as they only vote ONCE?

The solution is so simple. Why exclude anyone who is a citizen and over 18? There is no need.

Tom, have you lost your marbles? Nobody is excluded who resides in the fifty states and simply bothers to register and demonstrates who they actually are. In the interest of one vote for one person, if Mickey Mouse shows up at the polls why not show something that identifies Mickey is who he says he is? Is this any way the same as a special forces soldier trying to excercise his constitutional right to vote while surviving day to day in a tent? This is some pretty sick stuff when democrats attempt to disenfranchise the people putting their lives on the line for us overseas with a liberal activist judge trying to include homeless people in potential voter fraud schemes......:rolleyes:


.

[Tom Montgomery]

Some people consider voting to be a privilege. Others consider voting to be a right.

People who do not appear in person to vote need to jump through a few more hoops. Why are American soldiers neglecting to follow instructions with their absentee ballots? That is a problem the military needs to look into.

Explain to me why anyone needs to be turned away at the voting booth when they are already registered to vote? The problem of voter fraud rarely involves someone fraudulently claiming to be Rick-Mi showing up at YOUR polling station and voting before YOU arrive. Voter fraud involves people REGISTERING and voting multiple times by using aliases. As I have pointed out, there is an EASY solution to that problem without excluding anyone.

[Rick-Mi]

ya need to pick a better anology...

Phillip, you need an argument.....



.

[Phillip Allen]

and yet others consider it an obligation...which are you?

[Phillip Allen]

Phillip, you need an argument.....



.

magnetic compasses do not point due north...you didn't say magnetic but it seemed logical for the anology...it is minor so don't worry about it...I just thought it was funny

[Rick-Mi]

and yet others consider it an obligation...which are you?

And the price of tea went down in China in the year 1774....



.

[MiddleAgesMan]

You HAVE answered me ... thank you, Michael!

It is OBVIOUS that you have no retort ... and it, really, does not lower my opinion of you ...

Simply stated, you've much to learn!

And you, of all people, are going to teach him?

[Rick-Mi]

magnetic compasses do not point due north...you didn't say magnetic but it seemed logical for the anology...it is minor so don't worry about it...I just thought it was funny

Oh gee Phillip, you are completely out in left field when it comes to the subject, but have stumbled on an irrelevant technicality while completely missing all salient points. Hooray!!!! :rolleyes:



.

[Tom Montgomery]

and yet others consider it an obligation...which are you?

If it were up to me voting would be compulsory.

[Tom Montgomery]

Tom, I realize you google like a mad man in a desperate attempt to make a point against me...
It took no time at all. You see, I was born and raised in Ohio and lived there up until 10 years ago. All of my family and many of my friends still live there. So, you see, unlike YOU, I knew something about this Ohio Voter ID issue prior to your troll about it.

[Rick-Mi]

It took no time at all. You see, I was born and raised in Ohio and lived there up until 10 years ago. All of my family and many of my friends still live there. So, you see, unlike YOU I knew something about this Ohio Voter ID issue.

Tom, excuse me, but you made no point at all except that you favor voter fraud over our military personel serving overseas. It must really suck to so often be on the wrong side of an argument.


.

[Tom Montgomery]

I now understand why you are such a SamF fanboy.

[Rick-Mi]

I now understand why you are such a SamF fanboy.

Considering how bad he smacks you libs down on the abortion issue, I take that as a HUGE compliment. But, your line of thinking demonstrates you and Jim Morrison have quite a bit in common when it comes to reality.....



.

[brad9798]

Middleagesman ... if I could teach your CLOSED MIND ... you too would be in a better place!

Let me guess ... are you only 18?

[Tom Montgomery]

I now understand why you are such a SamF fanboy.

I take that as a HUGE compliment.

Of course you do.

A serious question: How old are you? I speculated not long ago that you are a twenty-something. You did not deny it. Am I correct? I'm just curious.

[Rick-Mi]

A serious question: How old are you? I speculated not long ago that you are a twenty-something. You did not deny it. Am I correct? I'm just curious.


Wrong again as usual. It doesn't take too many brains to figure out the answer either. As often as you "link to think" I'm surprised by the question.



.

[Lew Barrett]

You heard wrong. Try doing a little research...who KNOWS what other illusions you're holding close to your heart! :D

Norman is correct in identifying that various state laws provide a tangled web in respect to ex-felons' voting rights.

I agree that if a man or woman is judged rehabilitated, along with that judgement should come the right to vote.

The research for one's state is easily accomplished online, but paring and understanding various states' laws is not quite so simple.

[Tom Montgomery]

Wrong again as usual. It doesn't take too many brains to figure out the answer either. As often as you "link to think" I'm surprised by the question.

No need to get snippy. You're just young at heart, eh? As for my googling and citing links, I prefer to proceed from facts to opinion rather than the other way around.

[Rigadog]

they MUST vote of course...they will vote for anyone who promises them comfort or a bottle of muscatel...but they STILL get to vote!

There are a lot of homeless people these days many out due to foreclosure. Not all are your easily stereotyped winos.

[Phillip Allen]

There are a lot of homeless people these days many out due to foreclosure. Not all are your easily stereotyped winos.

I am aware of that...I was trying to drive home the notion that what their motive for voting is is not our business...they should still be able to vote

[jack grebe]

Don't get me started:mad:.
I cannot vote because my address is commercial and
cannot be used for voting.....I'm outta luck and pissed
about it.
I Feels kinda helpless:(.

[Phillip Allen]

Don't get me started:mad:.
I cannot vote because my address is commercial and
cannot be used for voting.....I'm outta luck and pissed
about it.
I Feels kinda helpless:(.

get a bench out in front...

[riptide]

Tom, have you lost your marbles? Nobody is excluded who resides in the fifty states and simply bothers to register and demonstrates who they actually are. ... This is some pretty sick stuff when democrats attempt to disenfranchise the people putting their lives on the line for us overseas with a liberal activist judge trying to include homeless people in potential voter fraud schemes......:rolleyes:

Two comments, Rick. Well, three really, the first being that you should try to be more civil.

Regarding your first point: Sorry, but people who are registered have been denied the vote. Take Tennessee, for instance. Thousands of "snowbirds" who live in their RVs have been purged from the voting rolls. They can't vote, even if they show up in person. Beyond that, college students from Tennessee who attend school in another state have been told that they can't vote unless they show up in person ... and some of them can't even afford to fly home to spend Christmas with their families.

As for your claim that Democrats -- and not Republicans -- are responsible for the problems that soldiers are having: I've seen no evidence of that. If you can't produce something reliable, admit that it's just another baseless partisan attack.

[Phillip Allen]

Two comments, Rick. Well, three really, the first being that you should try to be more civil.


As for your claim that Democrats -- and not Republicans -- are responsible for the problems that soldiers are having: I've seen no evidence of that. If you can't produce something reliable, admit that it's just another baseless partisan attack.


I suspect this comes from Al Gore trying so hard to keep the military vote from counting