Moderate bilge anyone?

[Bob Adams]

I'm a registered Democrat who votes my ideals not the party's. I own guns and go to church on occassion. I rarely, if never vote the entire ticket, voting for whom I feel more qualified. That said, it pains me to see people of my party resort to the juvinile name calling and other kindergaten shenanigans demonstrated here. Surely not everyone here is so extreme as to cause a capsize to port! Could formites without such extreme views have a place to go, or am I, as I suspect, alone here?

[Norman Bernstein]

I'm a registered Democrat who votes my ideals not the party's. I own guns and go to church on occassion. I rarely, if never vote the entire ticket, voting for whom I feel more qualified. That said, it pains me to see people of my party resort to the juvinile name calling and other kindergaten shenanigans demonstrated here. Surely not everyone here is so extreme as to cause a capsize to port! Could formites without such extreme views have a place to go, or am I, as I suspect, alone here?

I understand your sentiment, and concur. I'm a registered Independent, politically 'democratic/moderate', and I don't see a lot of those types around here.

However, it ought to be noted that vigorous debate comes more from the partisans than the fence-straddlers... and we have a bunch of those types from both the extreme right and extreme left... as well as one or two conspiracy theorists who don't lie on the usual political axis.

In any event, I think that a forum with only 'moderates' would be a damnedly dul place to be. The present wide distribution of opinion is a lot more fun.

Admittedly, the extremes of either side will 'label' you, regardless. To the hard-core right wingers, you're going to be a socialist/communist/etc..... to the hard-core left wingers, you're going to be labelled a dilletante.

Live with it... it mirrors real life.

[JTA]

Bob,
If you change the first line to "I am a registered Republican..." the rest of your post echo's my thoughts.
You are not alone, in fact I believe (hope) we are the majority. We just happen to be a little quieter than some.

Jack

[John of Phoenix]

When cheney, dubya, rummy et al have been tried, I'll moderate. A bit.

[JTA]

...
In any event, I think that a forum with only 'moderates' would be a damnedly dul place to be. ...

I respectfully disagree, this is a boat forum, not a political forum. I think it would be fine.

[JimD]

No offence intended, Bob, but you're in the wrong place. If you want moderation you need to find a moderated forum. Adding one more plea for moderation to all that have preceded yours will accomplish nothing. How's the weather in Baltimore, my good man?

[Bob Adams]

No offence intended, Bob, but you're in the wrong place. If you want moderation you need to find a moderated forum. Adding one more plea for moderation to all that have preceded yours will accomplish nothing. How's the weather in Baltimore, my good man?

None taken. Seeing one of the current canidates compared to Hitler just tripped my trigger. Ah, winter approches, 50 degrees F and overcast.

[botebum]

I respectfully disagree, this is a boat forum, not a political forum. I think it would be fine.And I respectfully disagree. This is The Bilge. The boat forums can be found overhead. We have The Bilge to keep this crap from messing up the more respectable boards. Scot does the moderating when it gets out of hand. With all due respect, if you don't like the stinky stuff, stay on deck.

Doug

[JimD]

None taken. Seeing one of the current canidates compared to Hitler just tripped my trigger. Ah, winter approches, 50 degreed F and overcast.

Hitler comparisons are virtually mandatory. My favourite comparison so far was the 'reporter' who asked Biden if Obama was a Marxist. Given that the average low information voter likely has little to no idea what a Marxist is aside from a vague notion that its something evil, she may as well have just asked Biden if Obama were evil and be done with it. When the professional, supposedly responsible media behaves this way what hope is there for a free for all internet forum? Sunny and crisp on the island today.

[Uncle Duke]

Could formites without such extreme views have a place to go, or am I, as I suspect, alone here?
Let me suggest that this is exactly the place where forumites without extreme views should be.
I am pretty middle-of-the-road on most issues and pretty tolerant except that I do not easily tolerate people posting things which are simply wrong. I will, if I spot them, call out incorrect attributions, for example. If someone posts "facts" which can be proven to be wrong, then I will submit that proof. If someone posts inflamatory stuff without any backup to it at all, then I will ask for some supporting evidence - and if they can't provide that, then I will suggest that they are posting fiction as if it were fact and I will call them out on that.
These are all things which should be done more often since they tend to bring discussion back to the middle - to the path of moderation.
It continually astonishes me that people here who profess to support craftsmanship and who will happily discuss the range of options when you want to build something 'correctly' will abandon those beliefs when it comes to discussions about politics, religion, etc. It seems shamefully hyprocritical.
Personally, I'm no angel, of course - I admit to sometimes having fun doing that. But the intent is always to bring the arguments back to reality, back to accuracy and back to precision. I wish that more moderates here would help to stamp out sloppiness and lies.
Just my opinion, of course. I could be wrong. :D

[Tylerdurden]

Let me suggest that this is exactly the place where forumites without extreme views should be.
I am pretty middle-of-the-road on most issues and pretty tolerant except that I do not easily tolerate people posting things which are simply wrong. I will, if I spot them, call out incorrect attributions, for example. If someone posts "facts" which can be proven to be wrong, then I will submit that proof. If someone posts inflamatory stuff without any backup to it at all, then I will ask for some supporting evidence - and if they can't provide that, then I will suggest that they are posting fiction as if it were fact and I will call them out on that.
These are all things which should be done more often since they tend to bring discussion back to the middle - to the path of moderation.
It continually astonishes me that people here who profess to support craftsmanship and who will happily discuss the range of options when you want to build something 'correctly' will abandon those beliefs when it comes to discussions about politics, religion, etc. It seems shamefully hyprocritical.
Personally, I'm no angel, of course - I admit to sometimes having fun doing that. But the intent is always to bring the arguments back to reality, back to accuracy and back to precision. I wish that more moderates here would help to stamp out sloppiness and lies.
Just my opinion, of course. I could be wrong. :D

Pompous ass alert!

[Uncle Duke]

Pompous ass alert
Gee, Mark, you're not still pissed about that non-quote from Thomas Jefferson, are you?:D

[Bob Adams]

Just a clarification....I was not looking to moderate the bilge, I was thinking of a place where less extreme formites could meet. Perhaps that will happen naturally after the election, then a gain, maybe not:rolleyes:

[Uncle Duke]

Just a clarification....I was looking to moderate the bilge
My misunderstanding - I thought differently from comments above...
I'm not a big fan of over-moderated forums, but I would agree that this particular one (Bilge) might be slightly under-moderated. On the other hand, who wants to moderate it? I'm sure that Scot has other things to do and hopes that we will self-moderate.
It's a nice thought.
I like the BoingBoing method of "disemvoweling" posts which are over the top..that seems to cover all the bases - people can still post what they want, it just makes it so hard to read that their message/vitriol fades....:D

[Tylerdurden]

Gee, Mark, you're not still pissed about that non-quote from Thomas Jefferson, are you?

Yeah right, a partially wrong quote. I am wounded.:rolleyes:

How's things hanging around the schoolyard?

[Bob Adams]

My misunderstanding - I thought differently from comments above...
I'm not a big fan of over-moderated forums, but I would agree that this particular one (Bilge) might be slightly under-moderated. On the other hand, who wants to moderate it? I'm sure that Scot has other things to do and hopes that we will self-moderate.
It's a nice thought.
I like the BoingBoing method of "disemvoweling" posts which are over the top..that seems to cover all the bases - people can still post what they want, it just makes it so hard to read that their message/vitriol fades....:D

Sorry Uncle, I forgot the word "not".See corrected post.

[Flying Orca]

I like the BoingBoing method of "disemvoweling" posts which are over the top..that seems to cover all the bases - people can still post what they want, it just makes it so hard to read that their message/vitriol fades....:D

BoingBoing's Heroic Moderators(tm) also delete entire posts when they run afoul of the rules. That being said, I think some moderation can be a good thing, and I think they strike a pretty good balance over at BB.

[Tylerdurden]

Moderates are cowards in most instances. Its always safer to be moderate but nothing ever gets done. How do moderates do in the sciences, literature, art and society as a whole. They are most often just cannon fodder.

Lets imagine the world if the moderates had their way in 1776.

[skuthorp]

We seem to have managed it in the OZ POLITICS thread, but that depends on the make-up and ethics of the participants and the probable lack of extremes in the participants views. I don't think a 'moderated' thread wopuld work unless the participants learn to 'moderate' their own posting habits and rhetoric.

[The Bigfella]

C'mon - the Bilge is moderated.

"Someone" got caught out altering forumite's posts.

Forum rules about acceptable behaviour are enforced selectively - and the worst offenders (in terms of abusiveness) get off Scot-free.

Some - who can't handle intelligent critiques of their posts - be they lunacy or brilliant - crawl off behind the scenes and make sure that any opposition is stifled - yep, they get the rules changed just for them. Cry baby stuff.

There are rules - but they are not enforced. It isn't hard to figure out why, but it isn't worth doing anything about it either.

[mmd]

While I have no aversion to political (or religious) discussion per se, the acceptance of such here in The Bilge has allowed it to take over the place, virtually excluding all else. Even if one wished to open a discussion of something else - say, good recipes for cooking on a shipmate stove - it would be quickly overwhelmed by the vociferous political threads, which most often add nothing new to the common weal, and sink less noisome threads off the front page where most casual visitors might scan. Surely there are forums dedicated to political discussion where such conversations would be more appropriate. I miss the poetry, pictures, personal anecdotes, and other pleasantries that have been forced out by the constant barrage of political muck-raking, diatribes, and duelling C&P's foisted upon us by a few profligate, boatless, argumentative immoderates. Take yer unholy political jaking elsewhere, someplace where you'll not disturb the neighbourhood with your incessant cawing; and to heck with your arguments about freedom of speech - you don't have to shut up, just take it someplace else!

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it! <grin>

[switters]

fairest moderator: Probably Spin drift, ACB.

most entertaining: reptilian overlord minion Spanker

least effective: probably most of us because we are apathetic.

The reality is that this is a very well behaved microcosm of a larger predominantly (does not mean entirely) white male educated population. Check out some other forums, Chris Ostland put one of his small boat designs up on SA and they went into all kinds of personal attacks, but in the end it was hopefully some good feedback for him, I don't know. What I do know is that venturing outside of the wooden boat world you need to get some really thick skin.

or stay off the political forums, I try to make it a point not to get involved with anything gun related, (unsuccessfully).

[Tylerdurden]

http://theminiaturespage.com/news/pics/2006/apr/74824a.jpg

[skuthorp]

"Take yer unholy political jaking elsewhere"
Sometimes it's hard to separate the spoilers from the passionate believers. And many are, I suspect, frustrated at the lack of opportunity to spruik their wares. Of course, face-to-face, their languge would be quite different than it is shouting at the computer deep in the night.
As for 'bias' in the moderation we do have, that is reality, the moderator is human with his own biases, an employee, answerable to his boss, board etc. It's a private corporation, and that's part of the deal.

[Hughman]

am I, as I suspect, alone here?

Bob, You're not alone. It's the nature of Moderates to be moderate.

(

[Wayne Jeffers]

I will own up; it was my comparison.

I think it stacks up pretty well.

Demagoguery spreading hate and lies to a bunch of people who feel they have been hard done by and are looking for someone to blame.

I'll own up, too.

To what Andrew said, I would add that Palin's racism is less overt than Hitler's, i.e. "real America" vs. ??? (ethnic, non-white, urban America -- <wink> <wink>)

Wayne

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Why open political post, if you don't like them? Nobody is clicking your mouse for you.

I'm ordinalrily a "moderate" guy. However, Bush has lied, kcheated, and stolen his way to my utter contempt. Now we are in a position to not have to take it anymore.

If that is "immoderate", so be it.

Moby Nick

[Norman Bernstein]

While I have no aversion to political (or religious) discussion per se, the acceptance of such here in The Bilge has allowed it to take over the place, virtually excluding all else. Even if one wished to open a discussion of something else - say, good recipes for cooking on a shipmate stove - it would be quickly overwhelmed by the vociferous political threads, which most often add nothing new to the common weal, and sink less noisome threads off the front page where most casual visitors might scan.

Your argument is false, on it's face. If there was an overhelming demand for discussions of Shipmate stove cooking, those threads would be at the top of the list.

The reason politics floats to the top is that people WANT to participate in those discussions.


Surely there are forums dedicated to political discussion where such conversations would be more appropriate.

I once looked for a better forum to discuss politics on... and couldn't find one. All the others I found made this forum look like the very model of civility.


I miss the poetry, pictures, personal anecdotes, and other pleasantries.....

Apparently, not many other miss that stuff... or else, they'd be here.


Take yer unholy political jaking elsewhere, someplace where you'll not disturb the neighbourhood with your incessant cawing; and to heck with your arguments about freedom of speech - you don't have to shut up, just take it someplace else!

Maybe Scot will appoint you censor.... er, moderator. Why don't you ask him?


That's my story, and I'm sticking to it! <grin>

Good for you... stick to your story... or stick it somewhere! :p

[mmd]

But, Norman; but.. but...

The point of my mini-diatribe is that all else other than politics is driven off the forum due to the vociferousness of the few political posters. It's not that other subjects are not wanted nor haven't an audience, but that they are so overwhelmed by the volume of the political rancor that they do not stay on top long enough to be seen. After a while, posters of other topics give up. As for "overwhelming popularity", I'd suggest that the majority of the last thousand posts in the bilge have been authored by no more than twenty or thirty posters. Any way you slice it, that ain't a majority, it is a terribly loud, obdurate, obstreperous, and prolific minority.

So why do you come here to voice your political opinions? Too much heat on the political forums? <wink>

[Bob Adams]

Well put MMD!

[Norman Bernstein]

But, Norman; but.. but...

The point of my mini-diatribe is that all else other than politics is driven off the forum due to the vociferousness of the few political posters. It's not that other subjects are not wanted nor haven't an audience, but that they are so overwhelmed by the volume of the political rancor that they do not stay on top long enough to be seen. After a while, posters of other topics give up. As for "overwhelming popularity", I'd suggest that the majority of the last thousand posts in the bilge have been authored by no more than twenty or thirty posters. Any way you slice it, that ain't a majority, it is a terribly loud, obdurate, obstreperous, and prolific minority.

You've correctly noticed that the predominant participation here in the bilge does indeed come from just twenty or thirty prolific posters... but they're not necessarily all political. SamF, for example, rarely participates unless there's an opportunity to excoriate most of us on our secular immorality. Chad posts on a very wide variety of topics, and gets lots of response.... as does Shane. Mark is a very prolific poster (although I'd be loath to try to categorize the sort of threads he enjoys starting!).

Regardless, your compliant is accurate, but misdirected, I think. One of the 'freedoms' of the bilge is the ability to ignore that which you object to.. and participate where you want to. If most active posters enjoy heated political exchanges, it's simply a fact of life.... get over it... and start posting more non-political threads, yourself; you'll get PRECISELY as much response and comments as there are folks who are interested!


So why do you come here to voice your political opinions? Too much heat on the political forums? <wink>

I wasn't kidding when I said earlier that this was the most civil forum where politics is discussed that I've been able to find... so you can just imagine what the others are like! :p

Besides, there are a few people here who make political discussion delightful, such as Cris Ross, Keith Wilson, etc.

[mmd]

<sigh...>

Soon time for another "Art Attack".

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Oh yeah, boats in The Bilge.
What a great distraction.
Go for it.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

For the record, I am a moderate in my country... just about the middle. I would have been called a "Red Tory" ten years ago... but that ground is held by the liberal party in Canada now.

As for the bilge, I think that the boaty part of the forum has been respected by most posters, and that what is said in the bilge stays in the bilge. I don't like the political views of some folks here, but I respect their ability above the bilge.

I think the divisions in the forum are working, and Scot takes care of the exceptions;)

[Donn]

... but they're not necessarily all political. SamF, for example, rarely participates unless there's an opportunity to excoriate most of us on our secular immorality. Chad posts on a very wide variety of topics, and gets lots of response...

Norman, you average very nearly as many posts per day as Sam and Chad combined.

MMD's train of thought is well taken. Political threads and posts dominate the bilge through the rabid participation of a tiny minority of forum members.

The ignore function does not apply to threads, and cannot keep political threads from dominating the board. That's a false "freedom." If those with nothing better to do than to monopolize a forum with endless repetition of the same thoughts, it's simply a fact of life...get over it.

[Norman Bernstein]

Norman, you average very nearly as many posts per day as Sam and Chad combined.

And this is some sort of crime or social offense?


MMD's train of thought is well taken. Political threads and posts dominate the bilge through the rabid participation of a tiny minority of forum members.

I didn't disagree with him on that point.... well, partially: the total number of active participants on ANY subject here in the bilge is pretty much dominated by a relatively small group, irrespective of the nature or topic of the thread.


The ignore function does not apply to threads, and cannot keep political threads from dominating the board.

The only thing they dominate is positions on a list. You DO know how to scroll down, right?


If those with nothing better to do than to monopolize a forum with endless repetition of the same thoughts, it's simply a fact of life...get over it.

Wait a minute... that's exactly what *I* said! :)

[PeterSibley]

I seem to remember Donn being both prolific and vitriolic ....'til his star wained .

[Donn]

And this is some sort of crime or social offense?


Is that a sentence?

The point refutes your lame representation of Sam and Chad as counterpoints to the flood of political posts/threads on the forum. You negate their participation, all by yourself.

Quite an accomplishment, Norm. Congratulations.

BTW...Sam really butchered you on the media thread, just as MMD did here.:p

[PeterSibley]

But, Norman; but.. but...

The point of my mini-diatribe is that all else other than politics is driven off the forum due to the vociferousness of the few political posters. It's not that other subjects are not wanted nor haven't an audience, but that they are so overwhelmed by the volume of the political rancor that they do not stay on top long enough to be seen. After a while, posters of other topics give up. As for "overwhelming popularity", I'd suggest that the majority of the last thousand posts in the bilge have been authored by no more than twenty or thirty posters. Any way you slice it, that ain't a majority, it is a terribly loud, obdurate, obstreperous, and prolific minority.

So why do you come here to voice your political opinions? Too much heat on the political forums? <wink>

I really can't agree mmd, there are plenty of other threads .If you or I are not in the mood for argument it is pretty simple to avoid them ....unless of course the temptation is simply too much !:D

I suspect it will all die after your circus has passed .

[mmd]

Me, too, Peter, but maybe - just for a while - the Bilge will be bumped off its "all politics, all the time" binge.

Feel free to help the cause by posting a non-politics thread...

[Norman Bernstein]

BTW...Sam really butchered you on the media thread, just as MMD did here.:p

Hmmmm...I'll have to add you to the club... you know, the 'People who think that discussion is a contest and who think they have the right to declare the 'winners' all by themselves' club.

The other member is SamF.

Congrats!