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View Full Version : Its a good thing Bush is in charge....



TimH
10-11-2008, 09:52 PM
or we would really be in trouble :rolleyes:


WASHINGTON — George W. Bush (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/george_w_bush/index.html?inline=nyt-per) began his presidency with the worst terrorist attack on American soil and he is ending it with the worst financial crisis (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/c/credit_crisis/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) since the Great Depression (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/g/great_depression_1930s/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier). In between, he confronted a hurricane that nearly wiped New Orleans off the map as his administration showed ineptitude in its response.
Now, as he spends his last months in office trying to avert a global economic collapse, Mr. Bush has been telling people privately that it’s a good thing he’s in charge.




“He said that if it was going to happen at all, he was glad it was happening under his presidency, because he had a good group of people in D.C. working for him".


link (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/business/11bush.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)

capt jake
10-11-2008, 09:56 PM
He needs a new prescription for his glasses. Can't see the forest for the trees.

PatCox
10-11-2008, 10:03 PM
Heckovajob, Brownie.

C. Ross
10-11-2008, 10:09 PM
Not to ruin another perfectly feel-good Bush attack thread....

But just for grins. What would Clinton have done differently? What would Obama do differently? Compare and contrast. Use examples. Show your work.

Yeadon
10-11-2008, 10:15 PM
100 days.

Say it slowly, just to hear how it sounds.

100 days.

TimH
10-11-2008, 10:20 PM
Not to ruin another perfectly feel-good Bush attack thread....

But just for grins. What would Clinton have done differently? What would Obama do differently? Compare and contrast. Use examples. Show your work.


Clinton would not have turned a fight with Al Queda into a 7+ multi trillion dollar war with Iraq.

Clinton had fiscal responsibility and we wouldnt be in debt up to our ears.

Clinton listened to Greenspan.

Clinton was simply 100 times the president GW is.

Yeadon
10-11-2008, 10:22 PM
... and Clinton himself was a disappointment. Not saying much for w there Tim.

TimH
10-11-2008, 10:25 PM
... and Clinton himself was a disappointment.

How is that?

jbelow
10-11-2008, 10:39 PM
It is pathetic that George Bush is the best thing that Washington D.C. has to offer to the American people. The Dems pined their hopes on a piece of sh#t like Pelosi. We need new leadership on every level in government. Throw the bums out !

LeeG
10-11-2008, 10:45 PM
DC didn't offer GW. America offered GW. What we have now is a culmination of GW like choices. Look at the debt under GW. Kicking the bill to the next generation. That's a GW choice, that's Americas choice.

brad9798
10-11-2008, 10:58 PM
Clinton would not have turned a fight with Al Queda into a 7+ multi trillion dollar war with Iraq.

Clinton had fiscal responsibility and we wouldnt be in debt up to our ears.

Clinton listened to Greenspan.

Clinton was simply 100 times the president GW is.

Of course he was ... that's why his admin. deregulated everything ... thinking that US biz had the greater good in mind.

Are memories so short that we have forgotten that the Clinton admin blanced the budget by reducing military expenditures ... and letting anyone get a 300k mortgage?

Yep- thought so!

:D

brad9798
10-11-2008, 10:59 PM
jbelow- you nailed it!

ABSOLUTELY correct, you are, sir!

LeeG
10-11-2008, 11:03 PM
DC didn't off GW Brad, the unholy alliance of the fearbased neocons and fearful faithbased did it.

brad9798
10-11-2008, 11:14 PM
Leeg- you sound like a paranoid person ...

Faithbased? You are not using your noggin, my good fellow! Sorry to be so blunt!

WHen it is OK with you, faith is okay, I'll bet! :rolleyes:

LeeG
10-11-2008, 11:28 PM
faith is like love, absolutely essential.

But it's not a basis for making decisions.

The religious right, "faithbased", community injected a set of erroneous thinking processes in politics where believing something replaced reasoning something.

C. Ross
10-11-2008, 11:34 PM
Well, the obvious flaw here is the assertion that Bush is in charge with respect to the financial crisis.

By law Bernanke's actions are independent of his control, Paulson et al are the ones truly defining strategy and tactics, Congress hasn't finished speaking on this issue, and the courts are waiting in the wings.

Cuyahoga Chuck
10-11-2008, 11:39 PM
Not to ruin another perfectly feel-good Bush attack thread....

But just for grins. What would Clinton have done differently? What would Obama do differently? Compare and contrast. Use examples. Show your work.

C'mon, Ross. Except for his sexual proclivities Clinton got thru his eight years in fairly good style and the history books will show that.
But when it comes to Bush I doubt the historians will have anything good to say about him. If you have anything positive to say about Bush that won't give a historian a hernia from laughing drag it out.
The books that analyse Bush's manifold problems would fill several book shelves already and much of the real juicy stuff won't be known till Bush leaves office and his power to sequester is terminated.
Even composing a bibliographhy of the books already published that record the strange meanderings of the Bush administration would be a too daunting.
And having a vice-president that seemed to be attached to him at the hip didn't improve his image much.

TimH
10-11-2008, 11:46 PM
Bush took his eye off the ball in more ways than one.

Cuyahoga Chuck
10-11-2008, 11:50 PM
It is pathetic that George Bush is the best thing that Washington D.C. has to offer to the American people. The Dems pined their hopes on a piece of sh#t like Pelosi. We need new leadership on every level in government. Throw the bums out !

Washington? You got a map? Can you find TEXAS on the map? That is where George Bush came from.
He was a gift to the American people from the citizens of TEXAS. It would have been better if the citizens of TEXAS had sent a bus load of smallpox to Washington instead. It would have cost us much less in blood and treasure.

jbelow
10-12-2008, 12:11 AM
DC didn't offer GW. America offered GW. What we have now is a culmination of GW like choices. Look at the debt under GW. Kicking the bill to the next generation. That's a GW choice, that's Americas choice.

You are wrong again. You have no idea of what America wants. It aint the neocons and the lefties . You cannot see past your ideology . Your kind is part of the problem and not part of the solution. You protest to much.

pcford
10-12-2008, 12:19 AM
... and Clinton himself was a disappointment. Not saying much for w there Tim.

Hey dude, he was the best Republican president of the last half century.

So strange the wingers get so het up about him as his policies were conservative.

jbelow
10-12-2008, 12:21 AM
Washington? You got a map? Can you find TEXAS on the map? That is where George Bush came from.
He was a gift to the American people from the citizens of TEXAS. It would have been better if the citizens of TEXAS had sent a bus load of smallpox to Washington instead. It would have cost us much less in blood and treasure.

I see that your still full of the same old clueless bs. You can't see past your hatred of George Bush. You are in the same sinking rowboat as LeeG. Keep rowing !

James McMullen
10-12-2008, 01:16 AM
Anybody who does not harbor a hatred of George W. Bush and all of his misdeeds at this point is someone who is seriously out of touch with reality. Dubya is right up there with Robespierre for someone who did all of the wrong things for what he apparently thought at the time were the right reasons. He will rightly be regarded as the worst American president in history and anyone who ever voted for him will have to take that that shame to their grave.

Speaking from a purely non-partisan perspective of course. . .:rolleyes:

PeterSibley
10-12-2008, 01:57 AM
You are wrong again. You have no idea of what America wants. It aint the neocons and the lefties . You cannot see past your ideology . Your kind is part of the problem and not part of the solution. You protest to much.

You will have an answer to that in a short while Mr Below ....the rest of the world is hoping the next President of your fine country is absolutely nothing like the present fellow .

Captain Blight
10-12-2008, 02:38 AM
or we would really be in trouble :rolleyes:


WASHINGTON — George W. Bush (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/george_w_bush/index.html?inline=nyt-per) began his presidency with the worst terrorist attack on American soil and he is ending it with the worst financial crisis (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/c/credit_crisis/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) since the Great Depression (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/g/great_depression_1930s/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier). In between, he confronted a hurricane that nearly wiped New Orleans off the map as his administration showed ineptitude in its response.
Now, as he spends his last months in office trying to avert a global economic collapse, Mr. Bush has been telling people privately that it’s a good thing he’s in charge.




“He said that if it was going to happen at all, he was glad it was happening under his presidency, because he had a good group of people in D.C. working for him".


link (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/business/11bush.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)

As much as I loathe Bush, CHeney and Rove, I've got to say that this is simply unfair. Even though I wouldn't piss on any of them if they were on fire, not everything that happens on their watch is their "fault."

pipefitter
10-12-2008, 03:00 AM
I wonder if Obama screws the pooch, will he just be able to blame Bush? I bet many here will. The neocons didn't vote him in there, the neocons voted how they always do. It was the lack of the neohippies ability to put up a viable candidate for 2 elections and look what it has taken to give them a running this time around? I have to agree with everyone who has looked at the situations leading to this long term. The war in Iraq, the economy and including what we are seeing with NK, Russia and Iran. I don't think Kerry or Gore would have fared any better and possibly worse. Bad transitional timing for any president to step in office and during the Clinton administration, I and many others were sure his so called legacy was granted a free lunch in comparison and the negative effects were going to show eventually.

Did Bush step in the big pile and handle it badly? Sure he did in hindsight and it's always easier to swallow if there is a single face to adhere blame to. Keep thinking this way and we'll surely figure out that we can't keep putting blame on the one, eventually, I hope. Just for the fact that nobody here shows any angst over the present performance of Congress is enough to convince me that there is too many faces there to blame so better not to bother. Better to just blame Bush for that too instead of digging there and then trying to explain it once you have put all your marbles in the same sack for so long.

PeterSibley
10-12-2008, 04:59 AM
Did Bush step in the big pile and handle it badly? Sure he did in hindsight and it's always easier to swallow if there is a single face to adhere blame to. Keep thinking this way and we'll surely figure out that we can't keep putting blame on the one, eventually, I hope. Just for the fact that nobody here shows any angst over the present performance of Congress is enough to convince me that there is too many faces there to blame so better not to bother. Better to just blame Bush for that too instead of digging there and then trying to explain it once you have put all your marbles in the same sack for so long.

Well Pipes , it seems from an Oz perspective that it was Bush / Cheney who plotted to invade Iraq ,who manipulated a gullible US public into supporting them .Invading a sovereign country for false and manipulated reasons ,duping the citizens of your country into supporting him at the cost of how many thousand of your young men ? Not to mention innocent Iraqis by the thousand .Do you think Gore would have spun the same lies ? Or would he have pursued the actual enemies of your country rather than phantoms and lies about WMD ?

I'm sure many would have preferred a beer with Bush over Gore , I even have friends who said as much at the time of the election .(They have since recanted ).But when it comes to monumental and destructive ineptitude the current bloke takes the cake .A pub personality is not requirement for leadership .

As to your Congress ,I'm sure your are right .The blame seems pretty widespread , but the instigator of the chaos was the President and his VP .Congress went along for the ride ...they didn't start it .The buck stops on the Bush desk ,nowhere else .

shamus
10-12-2008, 05:29 AM
It isn't a time now to be attributing blame. A very unfortunate time to be in election mode.

pipefitter
10-12-2008, 05:52 AM
Well Pipes. . .

I agree and yet hate to disagree at the same time. Clinton's habits of last minute crisis management handling, his inability to hold the U.N. coalition together while seeking tighter sanctions against Iraq, surely helped to bring this 10 year old stalemate into the 21st century. All of a sudden, Saddam had us in a clutch instead of the other way around with that whole weapons inspections fiasco. The sale of the Iraq war should have been a much harder, if not impossible sale to the public by then and no matter what people claim they knew, but because of Saddam's games with the inspections, most people here were convinced there was indeed WMD and how can you blame us/them? Even without intel, when someone postures themselves as if they have something to hide, then why is it such a surprise all of a sudden when it turns out to be false? When I drove a cab, a fellow driver shot and killed a would be robber with a 45 over his shoulder because the robber had a gun. Wasn't until the police got there that they discovered the robber's gun wasn't loaded. The robber acted like it was.

I think Bush and Cheney amongst many Democrats and the world, truly believed there was WMD and it would have been more honorable for those who voted for the invasion initially, to own what they voted for instead of blaming it on bad intel from the Bush administration to save looking foolish. There is a whole other scope of political motivation beyond what seems so easy to believe from both sides. I believed there was WMD, and correct intel or not, I would have still believed it so that makes me guilty as well. Now that all the cards are on the table, I am almost convinced there isn't now but not enough to say there wasn't.

I know it's nice to pose as all knowing on a wood boat forum in which to participate as one with wisdom above or equal to the upper fact mongers and finger pointers here, but out of honesty, I'll stick to what I said I truly believed at the time. Not because of what Bush and Cheney told me, but because of Saddam Hussein's actions.

See why I don't trust anybody in politics or the opinion of any that will uphold either side as better than the other in spite of available so-called facts? Bunch of damned self interest liars when it comes right down to it. They could give a rots oss about the citizens of this country as long as their self serving reputations and greedy paychecks are intact. I wonder how many of them have voted themselves a pay cut in order to do their part with the ailing economy. Surely their performance warrants it if nothing else. Wonder how the new tax laws under Blobama will effect them and their mrtg's or jobs?

I don't mean to sound so indignant, but it's high time where no matter who gets in the seats of government, are going to have to show me first before I would stick my neck out to claim any of them as a better choice.

MiddleAgesMan
10-12-2008, 06:24 AM
It never ceases to amaze me how Bush Republicans blame everything that went to sh_t on Bush's watch on the Democratic administration of Clinton. That they do this with a straight face year after year after year is laughable.

Here we have the party of the Ownership Society showing absolutely no interest in owning the mistakes of Bush-Cheney! Elsewhere we see the Reps blaming Clinton for 9/11, over and over they do it. Right here on this thread we have Brad blaming Clinton for the current crisis because "he deregulated everything!"

I've got news for you, Brad and PF--the first successful deregulation administration was Reagan's. It was a Republican president who wanted the markets to rule, to get government out of everyone's business. The NeoCons flourished under Reagan and in short order they had control of Congress. Their main agenda has been deregulation and smaller government.

The NeoCons were in charge of Congress in the Clinton years and it was the Republicans who authored the legislation to deregulate much of the financial sector. It passed Congress with a veto-proof vote so Clinton had little choice but to sign it.

Shame on you, Brad, for lying about a matter of such importance.

Let me give it to you straight--upstanding, ethical and successful people don't move through life blaming every bad thing that happens to them on someone else. Bush gave us this Ownership Society now it's time to own your mistakes.

peterAustralia
10-12-2008, 06:54 AM
from Oz,

some very apparent Bush mistakes from a non expert

not seeing intelligence of WMD was very thin
not sending enough troops to Iraq
Immense budget deficits
not sending enough troops to Afghanistan
not spending enough on reconstruction efforts in Afghanistan
Katrina aftermath - there was much he could have done if he wanted to do so
cronyism in government
not learning that heaps of bad loans were been given out
failure to do anything with transparency in regards to on-selling these bad loans
not doing anything about America's balance of trade deficit
doing nothing to stop the spend spend spend mentality
having an inefficient health care system that costs way more than Europe for no better outcome
doing nothing about the environment, not even a modest carbon tax,
nothing to stop global deforestation,
nothing to stop global overpopulation.
not stopping torturing of prisoners - some guilty, some innocent.
stuffing up America's goodwill with most countries in the world.
starting a war that has killed thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's and cost trillions
doing nothing to fix Somalia or Sudan


and that is just the short list in what I could think of in 3 minutes, there will no doubt be more

Cuyahoga Chuck
10-12-2008, 09:27 AM
I see that your still full of the same old clueless bs. You can't see past your hatred of George Bush. You are in the same sinking rowboat as LeeG. Keep rowing !

Hey ,Booger! What you just did is called an "ad hominum" attack. That means you can't refute what I said so you attack me personally. I don't mind a bit because whatever you post here exposes what is, or is not, in your head.
Here's my "ad hominum" attack. Your keyboard is your worst enemy. Do yourself a favor. Read more post less. Start with what peterAustralia said.

rbgarr
10-12-2008, 11:53 AM
I'm still waiting for 'trickle down'!

Keith Wilson
10-12-2008, 12:13 PM
Ad hoimem. (since Donn's not here right now ;) )

Deregulation has been consistent Republican policy since before Ronald Reagan. Sometimes the Democrats have gone along. Sometimes it worked OK. This time it didn't (to put it mildly).

Donn
10-12-2008, 12:19 PM
Ad hoimem. (since Donn's not here right now ;) )



:p:D

LeeG
10-12-2008, 01:59 PM
from Oz,


and that is just the short list in what I could think of in 3 minutes, there will no doubt be more

on my short list this is the next elephant in the room. 25% of world oil consumption with 8% of world oil production as we head into a time of geological limits to low cost oil that the world grew on. We are in a position to lead on this and have done essentially nothing in 30yrs. In our narrative lowest cost resources are our birthright. We look for it and it's ours to use, makes all the sense in the world. Just keep looking and there it is.
As long as we can pay the up front cost, that is all that matter. Woe to the person who suggests pricing oil for it's total cost. We would end up paying MORE,,and diverting funds to totally different purposes than filling the tank with MORE fuel that will become MORE expensive.
I think the present economic crisis is a harbinger of what the oil crisis will be like. Except that one will be drawn out over decades and this over a few years.

Like the Hirsch report says

Oil peaking presents a unique challenge (“it will be abrupt and revolutionary”).

pila
10-12-2008, 08:43 PM
Bush was never smart enough to get things right anywhere, and not even smart enough to surround himself with good people who actually could do things right.

LeeG
10-13-2008, 12:55 AM
George Bush, bracketed by Jeff Gannon and Andy Martin

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/us/politics/13martin.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp

But an appearance in a documentary-style program on the Fox News Channel watched by three million people last week thrust the man, Andy Martin, and his past into the foreground. The program allowed Mr. Martin to assert falsely and without challenge that Mr. Obama had once trained to overthrow the government.

Rigadog
10-13-2008, 07:17 AM
It isn't a time now to be attributing blame. A very unfortunate time to be in election mode.

If not now, when?

Rigadog
10-13-2008, 07:19 AM
on my short list this is the next elephant in the room. 25% of world oil consumption with 8% of world oil production as we head into a time of geological limits to low cost oil that the world grew on. We are in a position to lead on this and have done essentially nothing in 30yrs. In our narrative lowest cost resources are our birthright. We look for it and it's ours to use, makes all the sense in the world. Just keep looking and there it is.
As long as we can pay the up front cost, that is all that matter. Woe to the person who suggests pricing oil for it's total cost. We would end up paying MORE,,and diverting funds to totally different purposes than filling the tank with MORE fuel that will become MORE expensive.
I think the present economic crisis is a harbinger of what the oil crisis will be like. Except that one will be drawn out over decades and this over a few years.

Like the Hirsch report says

Oil peaking presents a unique challenge (“it will be abrupt and revolutionary”).


Excellent post.