Andrew

[Wayne Jeffers]

Something you said in the now-locked thread deserves a response.

A Parliamentary type system would do that in a flash.

But, as with the bank bail out, the US system seems slow and cumbersome in its ability to react to changing circumstances.

Our system was designed to be slow and cumbersome. <Sigh>

It is also pretty ideally suited to obscuring responsibility for bad policies. Republicans will probably be blaming Bill Clinton for all the nation’s problems long after we have all turned to dust, and they will probably continue to find a sympathetic audience.

I envy those of you who have a Parliamentary government.

Wayne

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Re: Andrew

Failed policies you say Wayne, especially in the most recent turn of events? Socialism does not bring about utopia except for the ones that are on the receiving end of the producers, and that seems to be only a momentary excitment. Just look at the conditions of some of the abandoned homes, left unattended and stripped to the walls of all of its valuables and overall lack of maintainance of the homes.

Socialism only breeds less providers increasing their will to do less. Across Europe there are numerous examples at the declines which some politicans and citizens seem to favor and cheer right now for the United States.

Its also amusing that the very politicans that call for the ever increasing penalizing of the producers all have theirs in million times over and have not produced anything of hands on value and will not do so in their careers at the continuing expense of the producers.

You're both a "producer" and a provider", right?

[High C]

Re: Andrew

Why'd you lock that thread, Andrew? Can't withstand a little challenge to your claim? Can't defend it? What?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Re: Andrew

Much simpler than that, High C - I was trying to reply on a Blackberry and I pressed the wrong button!

Feel free to carry on!

[High C]

Re: Andrew

Much simpler than that, High C - I was trying to reply on a Blackberry and I pressed the wrong button!

Feel free to carry on!

Oopsie! In that case, I apologize for challenging your motive!

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Re: Andrew

Another one of the many hazards of the Internet bulletin board as a form of discourse! Not to worry - where were we - oh yes:

1. Thanks for raising the point, Wayne. I've had the doubtful pleasure of watching another nation trying to work with the US system and frankly it ain't great, but then it is fair to say that Parilaimentary systems have been abused in may places also.

2. High C - " "I find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110 (a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act," Let's say she was not exonerated.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Re: Andrew

Socialism only breeds less providers increasing their will to do less. Across Europe there are numerous examples at the declines which some politicans and citizens seem to favor and cheer right now for the United States.

Could you let me know where? Europe is a pretty big place, but not much of it is declining.

(edited to add - I give you Belarus and Kaliningrad! )

[Landrith]

Re: Andrew

In 1998, I a classical liberal free market give government only enough money to buy a few cans of paint and a new flag every other year went to Germany. I rode clean trains, saw no crime in urban areas, even in Turkish street cafes the bathrooms were spotless. There were fewer people that owned cars but cool trams (clean electric ultralight rail that is being kept out of US cities), the food in stores was more expensive but of much higher quality and more healthful, the urban areas were not blighted and buildings were maintained or reinvested in, etc..etc..etc...

At that time, Bavaria where I was at was just starting to lose auto manufacturing jobs to plants in other countries, the parts were being outsourced around the world to low wage labor (the GM VW model) and Germany itself was transforming from a stake holder to stock holder economy. Now of course they are crashing and have ordered the stop of banks selling gold and silver.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Re: Andrew

Erster - you make some careful points which I need to consider. Please excuse me whilst I read my son a chapter of The Hobbit - its his bed time. I'll get back to you.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Re: Andrew

Thats correct. The producers provides the means for the policies mandated by the non-producing politicans that promise the world only to fail when the producers say the heck with it and adjust accordingly for their own survival, which in turn fails to provide enough to enact the policies. Right now the Social Security system is doing just that.

I will note that you were unable to refute the notion that this was the case that generated the housing issue, folks unable to otherwise own homes in a normal manner of qualifying and living within their means, having politicans engineer a policy that was destined to fail by all historical accounting standards, taking in less than what needs to go out.

I wasn't trying to refute you. I was, just trying to establish that you folks on the Neocon side saw yourselves on the side of the angels, as usual.
I don't think I am capable of refuting anything you say because I cannot get a handle on your writing style. It reminds me of my attempts, long ago, to read Thorsten Veblin's "Theory of the Liesure Class".
Your stuff needs a wee bit of editing.

[shamus]

Re: Andrew

Erster, I've been genuinely puzzled by US attitudes to health care in the six or seven years I've been here. I don't understand how having the government as a rival health insurer to private companies, hurts. Here in Australia you can join a private health fund if you want to, or you pay your tax and take your chances on the public system. The doctors work for themselves, not as employees of the state, for the most part. Or you can not pay any tax and take your chances too, if you're old, infirm, or unemployed. The health care can't be all that bad, since our life expectancy is second only to Japan, though I for one do not expect that to be the case in 30 years time. (but that's a different argument)

And if this "socialist" policy causes everyone to be unproductive, then why do we have no government debt, and a budget surplus?

And I gather the situation is much the same in Canada.
I just don't get it.

[shamus]

Re: Andrew

Okay, I think I see what you're getting at. I don't know the particulars of Obama's package. It could be that it has all sorts of problems.

What I was trying to show is that it is possible to have a universal coverage which works quite well, without totally destroying incentives. Our system isn't perfect, and it isn't as good as ten years ago in respect to some aspects, but we haven't completely downed tools because of the "socialism".

True we work a little less hard than you- 1730 hours per year per employed person, compared with 1810 for you. GDP $10000 less per head than you guys.

[shamus]

Re: Andrew

Incidentally, if you join private insurance here, the older you are when you join, the higher the premium. Seems simple?

[Landrith]

Re: Andrew

I had great hopes for Somalia as a Capitalist country. The absence of a state mandated a more humane interconnectedness as extended familial obligation. Their phone system and other utilities were totally unregulated entrepreneurial ventures. No dictator was around to sell out the nation and cart the money to Switzerland. Then came the Courts of Islam.

[TomF]

Re: Andrew

Erster,

If the "highly skilled" healthcare providers left Canada in busloads to work in your country instead, presumably they left the "poorly skilled" healthcare providers here to muddle on as best they could?

What utter and complete garbage. It's true that US health care organizations recruit heavily among Canada's doctors, nurses, medical lab techs etc., primarily on salary. It's also true that of the folks who leave, many come back here ... and that the recruiting itself is far less succesful than it once was. As Braam said, lifestyle trumps money time and again.

But the notion that you've lured away the properly trained professionals and left us with dopey also-rans from third-rate schools is simply ludicruous, ridiculous.

You've really no idea how professional education, and professional credentialing works in the rest of the world, have you? Or, it seems, in your own country.