Quercus douglasii as a boatbuilding wood

[Ed Armstrong]

Anyone know anything about the quality of Q. douglasii as a boatbuilding wood? It's a white oak native to California, but I don't know very much about its properties.

A fairly good sized one blew down on my property last spring. I've been meaning to cut it up for firewood, because I hadn't looked closely and thought it was an interior live oak, but upon closer inspection, it is a blue oak, so maybe it's worth having someone come in to mill it into lumber? It's 28" DBH, but unfortunately has a large hollow extending about 6 feet up into the tree (undoubtedly why it fell down). Other than the hollow, it looks like it was in good condition above it's first forking with two 18-20" diameter limbs that should yield some wood. I could also probably get a few natural crooks out of the root area too.

Ed

[JimM]

Brian
This is want I found with a google search.

Wood - hard, heavy, strong, brittle. It has a strong cross-grain and is difficult to split. Of little commercial value, it is used mainly for fuel

[Ed Armstrong]

Dang...I was hoping that it would have properties closer to lobata than wizlisenii. I'll wait to see if Mr. Smalser has anything more to add, but it sounds like it'll be food for the wood stove or left as habitat for critters.

Ed

[Bob Smalser]

It's a White Oak closely related to our local Oregon WO and should be fine.

But as it crosses easily with other oaks you should check an end grain sample for tyloses. Take a sliver of end grain with a sharp razor blade to insure a clean cut and using a 10X hand lens make sure the pores are clogged like these:

http://www.mashell.com/~estrauss/images/oak_40x.jpg

[Ed Armstrong]

Thanks Bob. Looks like I'll have to fire up my chain saw and cut some sections. Given what you said, I have a suspicion that this tree may be a cross between blue and interior live. Many of the leaves are lobe-less and look more like live oak leaves that blue, but there were enough with shallow lobes that I'm 98% sure it isn't an interior live oak (plus its size and bark are distinctly not live oak).

[larry wave]

This a little bit of a drift. I have a lot of Blue Oak and Valley oak around my place and was wondering which would be better for steaming. I'll need to steam some small frames for the platform beams to land on in a coquina I'm building. The Vally Oak I had in mind is about 20" in diameter and the first 18' are clear of branches. It grew in the shade down in a creek bed so its had lots of water and not too much sun. There is a lot of Blue Oak around as well thats a lot easier to get to, but none of it with as much clear lumber potential. Most of the Blue Oak that has any size to it looks to be at least partially hollow. The valley oak will produce much more timber than I need for this project, but it will probably make good keel and frame stock for future projects, if it makes good stock at all. Assuming it's worth cutting and milling, how soon before I steam it into frames should the tree be droped? I still have a couple more planks to hang and outer keel and skeg to attach before the boat can be turned over. I get about 12 hours a week for the boat, so it will be awhile before I'm ready for the frames. Back East sawyers drop their oaks at a certain time of the year- Is that applicable to california? Any comments would be welcome- I think.

[Bob Smalser]

1) I have a lot of Blue Oak and Valley oak around my place and was wondering which would be better for steaming.

2) Assuming it's worth cutting and milling, how soon before I steam it into frames should the tree be dropped?

3) Back East sawyers drop their oaks at a certain time of the year- Is that applicable to California?

1) As they both steambend well, the best one is the one that has the straightest-grained log in it for bending. Bigger is better, and the best bending wood is the first heartwood beneath the bark of a fast-growing tree.

2) Airdried oak bends as well as green, so don't worry about it. For some reason boatbuilders tend to think furniture makers molding 8"-wide chairbacks via steam use green wood where they'd have both a huge failure rate and awful finish retention. They don't, of course. Split or saw out your heartwood stock and sticker it outdoors on pallets well off of the ground. In California, burning the sapwood and bark before it gets beetles that also infest the heartwood is a good idea.

3) Falling trees at a particular time of year isn't applicable Back East, either. Just get the logs bucked and milled within a couple-three weeks to keep the bugs out.

[Ed Armstrong]

So Bob, being my blue oak has been down for about 6 months (the majority is not actually on the ground, but suspended approximately 3-feet in the air by branches and root ball), is my chance of recovering decent wood fairly low?

TIA,

Ed

[Bob Smalser]

So Bob, being my blue oak has been down for about 6 months (the majority is not actually on the ground, but suspended approximately 3-feet in the air by branches and root ball), is my chance of recovering decent wood fairly low?


Not at all. Just cut away all that sapwood and insure the heartwood you do stack doesn't have any beetle holes in it.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/18169354/285438315.jpg

Then store your lumber far away from your firewood and toss some Diazinon into and beneath the lumber stack.

[Ed Armstrong]

Thanks Bob. One last question (I think) -- approximately how much heartwood would I typically find in an 18" diameter log (or is it too dependant upon local conditions to generalize)? Thanks for sharing your expertise.

Ed

[Bob Smalser]

.....approximately how much heartwood would I typically find in an 18" diameter log

This is a 22" fir log, but the sapwood proportions are similar.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075040/52135880.jpg

Here's a much larger WO log for comparison:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075040/53116506.jpg

[Ed Armstrong]

Very cool. thanks!

[larry wave]

Thanks for the reply Bob. Not sure what diazinon is but I'll try and find some. I assumed sawyers cut their Oak at a certain time of the year back east because Edensaw said they they could only get it in the spring or fall- can't remember which. That was a couple years ago at the boat show up where you live. I thought I read something about different sap volumes in different seasons too- but I couldn't quote it now.
I remember reading a wooden boat artical several years ago about a restoration where the builders used either a heavy primer or a bottom paint on their steaming stock before steaming it. Would red lead be appropriate for this?