Ripping a genoa ?

[J. Dillon]

Last sat 0ct 4th Branford YC has an annual round Falkners island no spinnaker race. This is a 18 mile race by the crow flies. Wind prediction was N. 5 to 10 kts. At the start the wind was W at 8 kts. I was crewing aboard a 25' 30+yr. old ketch.

The start was down wind with the wind gradually increasing. We set the 150 genoa, full main and jigger and mizzen staysail.
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/959/falknersrace1bm3.jpg

Falkners Island in the distance . You can see the 150 genoa with no rips

At the first turning mark to go around Falkners island, we doused the mizzen stay sail and hardened the sheets for a reaching wind at 15 kts.

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/8474/falknersrace2rq9.jpg

The East side of Falkners island. 5 minutes after this image was taken we had a knock down to port swamping the cockpit.

Abeam of the high bluffed Falkners Island a gust hit us laying the boat over on her port side swamping the cockpit. In recovering we accidently tacked continued around and gybed the boat to get back on the original course and recover our selves. About 5 minutes later I noticed a 2' tear in the Genoa, half way back from the tack running up the sail. In about 10 minutes it increased to almost 4' but stopped at a seam. After tacking to start the windward run back to the committee boat finish we had to baby the sail not sheeting it in too much. We did put in a reef in the main sail. On the way back we had to tack out again to avoid a reef. Sea’s at the time were 3' to 4' on the windward leg. We finished the race and on corrected time came in 6th out of 23 boats.


Now the question, why did a 3 yr old North Norlam spectra sail tear ?


JD

[Hwyl]

It was gusting to 30 here on Saturday. I'd guess for a knockdown you probably had the same. I'd bet a 150 is rated for about 18knots and you filled it with water. The old lady did good.

Is it on a furler btw.

[Noah]

How high was the gust?

Without more details, one would guess that the sail got ripped on something during the mess - was it a stanchion? Whisker Pole? In the Gybe did the sail wrap around the forestay? How about the Bow Pulpit?

What was the original spec on the Genoa? What weight cloth, and how much does the boat weigh?

How heavily has the sail been used in 3 years? Lots of UV?

[Noah]

I don't know the rules - is a mizzen staysail allowed in non-spinnaker races?

[J. Dillon]

Difficult to say how high the gust was. We weren't looking at the instruments when it hit. But the wrap around the furler sounds like a good suspect. It could easily snag something.

UV another contributor for sure.

Yes the mizzen stay sail is permitted in this race. Yes other skippers bitch about it too.

Will have to get more intake from the other two aboard to answer some of the questions posed Noah.

JD

[John B]

I don't know the rules - is a mizzen staysail allowed in non-spinnaker races?
Not here. wish it was.

This is low on the foot halfway back?( deja vu for me )
Jack, look for a stray wire or bottle screw split pin not covered etc etc.Lifeline termination , stuff like that. Best way to me is to set the sail on a light day (if nothing jumps out at you) and mock set it differing points of sail and go looking for the snag.

For me it was a second halyard which I'd clipped off to the forward lower. Its an old wire to rope and had a stray snag hanging out of it.

[Todd Bradshaw]

A lot of high-end North headsails have a tag on them that states the maximum wind that it's intended to be used in. Exceed that windspeed or accidentally fill the foot with water in a knock-down and all bets are off. In order to get a 150 to work nicely in light air, the builders generally make an effort to minimize fabric weight, so you may not have much of a fudge-factor when it comes to wind speed. It certainly could have snagged on something, but Spectra is pretty good at resisting the slow UV deterioration and self-abrasion common to other exotic fibers, so its tear strength may just have been overpowered.

[John B]

Todd , a close friend of mine ordered a Pentex sail recently and was upgraded to spectra.. either the pentex wasn't available or it was about using up some stock, can't remember why exactly.
What do you think about that? Its been done so fait accompli and all that but just curious. Primarily a cruising boat.

[Figment]

I don't know the rules - is a mizzen staysail allowed in non-spinnaker races?



Yes the mizzen stay sail is permitted in this race. Yes other skippers bitch about it too.


Yes we do bitch, long and loud!!!! ;) Though not a violation of the letter of the rule in this case, I'd say it certainly violates the spirit of the rule. "Cruising Canvas" to me means "the sails you fly on a beat are the sails you fly all day".

Jack (good to see you again btw, albeit from a distance) the guests I had aboard on saturday were calling you guys "The Laundry Man" because of all the various sails (5?) you were flying on the first leg. :)

We were about three minutes behind you (almost at the turning mark) when that gust hit. I'd guess it at 22 knots or so. I was still wing-and-wing when it hit, and that puff gave me hullspeed-plus for at least six boatlengths.

[Todd Bradshaw]

I don't really know much about Pentex. It came out just as I was getting out of the whole laminated, radial sail thing and going back to traditionally-styled sails made from Dacron. Challenge Sailcloth made a big splash with Pentex sailcloth when it first appeared and to some extent they seem to have backed off a bit on it at the moment. They're still using something called PenX (maybe some sort of improved version) in some of their laminates, but I didn't see the word Pentex in any of their recent catalogs. Along with high strength and low stretch, some of these exotic fibers also bring their own set of problems into the picture (self abrasion, UV problems, high cost, availability problems, etc.) and it can take a couple of years for them to become obvious enough to re-think their use in that application. It's possible that Pentex could have suffered from some of these issues. In any case, the Spectra substitute might be a better bet with a longer track record of success.

[John B]

Thanks Todd, as I said , not really sure of the specific reason they were upgraded. Spectra as cloth was way more expensive than the pentex.. maybe 30 or 40 % more .. something like a lot. The pentex was a bit more expensive than the Dimension Polyant flex that I used for the new #3 I had made a few months ago.

[Noah]

From what I've read, Pentex is a racing cloth that doesn't have a very long life in highwind conditions. The Spectra is probably a bit heavier in relation to the stretch of the cloth, but will hold up better to over time. I think it's a trade off well worth making for a sail. Generally speaking most folks aren't going with Pentex unless class rules mandate it.

[J. Dillon]

Yes we do bitch, long and loud!!!!


Ha !! Mike ya make me laugh !:D ;)The other skippers too in their Frer's 34's. Are they worried about three seniors whose combined ages is 250 years in a 25' ketch, 30 + years old flying a mizzen staysail ? Ha.

They should be thankful we keep them with their younger crews and super yachts setting the latest in sail technology a bit sharper. We wouldn't want them to walk away with the race. ;)

JD

[John B]

Go back out and whup em next time Jack, take no prisoners.:D.

I'm going to experiment more with the tack position on the mizzen staysail this year. I've already removed a tack strop of about 18 inches and that gets me a much tighter luff and much closer to the wind with it. Great drifter!

[J. Dillon]

John, If the wind velocity allows the tack is not a fixed position. We found it varies and during a race it is changed constantly in position and length sometimes further in out as well as location . Ya just have to watch the sails reaction to the changes and if it is not drwawing well change the position to effect the most drive.

Now if youre cruising, tie it down and open another cool one.;)

JD

[John B]

I have one dedicated postion just amidships to windward for most uses and we've tacked it out on the windward rail before now but you have to watch it doesn't blanket the main. I'm going to try tacking it to leeward when fairly close to the wind to see what happens.Off course off the wind we ease the luff right off but I believe we can make the thing work just cracked sheets, close reaching , as well. Well I know we can , its just about how close can we go. Loads of fun. This is where it typically tacks down.
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