1948 Taylor cabin cruiser [Archive]

Tinman

10-01-2008, 03:16 PM

Is there anyone who knows anything about this boat? It's 36 ft long, and has a beam of 11 ft. It's weight is estimated at about 15,00 pounds and is powered by 283 flagship engines. I am on the verge of buying it but would like to know as much as possible about it. There isn't much on the internet concerning this vessel, so I'm wondering if anyone can provide a little insight. It was designed and built by J.J. Taylor in Toronto, but tha is about all I know. Any other information concerning this grand old lady would be greatly appreciated.

C. Ross

10-01-2008, 08:47 PM

Post a link or a picture?

Everyone will advise you to get a survey, which is the best advice I can offer.

There's not many left, but I have a 1948 J.J. Taylor & Sons 36' aft cabin cruiser, branded "Taylorcraft".

Nicely built. African mahogany on steamed oak ribs and keel, bronze knees and ceilings, teak foredeck. Cabintops were originally canvas but were fiberglassed. Originally twin Gray Marine straight sixes, updated to Chrysler 318s.

A couple of pictures...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2156/2041041445_d0e0632363_o.jpg

The design of the Taylor (right) owes a lot to 1939 and 1940 Chris Craft aft cabin cruiser design (left).

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2175/2044095823_de5d537a91.jpg

Tinman

10-02-2008, 10:10 PM

I have tried to post images of the boat with no sucess. It looks like a sister to the one you posted, with only very minor differences. I went ahead and bought the boat today, after crawling all over it, both inside and out. She is powered by gm corvette engines of the 283 variety, making almost 200 hp each. the hull number is 190026. the number is litterally carved by hand into the cross memeber at the after end of the engine compartment, and seems to indicate a weight of over 30,000 pounds. I find that almost impossible to believe.

Overall, the boat is in remarkable shape given her age, and I look forward to restoring her to pristine condition. If you or anyone else knows of another Taylor craft of this vintage, I would be most interested to hear about it. As things stand now, I know of just two.

C. Ross

10-02-2008, 11:09 PM

Tinman-
Congratulations!
Here is a link to the best on-line history I've found about J.J. Taylor & Sons. http://www.flc-acbs.org/heldenapage-3.htm

Mr. Taylor:
http://www.flc-acbs.org/imageVPO.JPG

Three boats of note built in the yard:

Heldena II was built in 1916 and recently restored. Here's a picture of the original Heldena in the nineteen-teens, and Heldena II as restored:
http://www.flc-acbs.org/imageCN6.JPG

http://www.acbs.ca/images/articles/heldena%20in%20motion.jpg

White Wings was a racing Bermudan sloop built to a John Alden design in 1938.
Here is a nice page about her in a book by Maynard Bray and Benjamin Mendlowitz http://books.google.com/books?id=rh-VpCTgpoUC&pg=PA185&lpg=PA185&dq=%22white+wings%22+alden&source=web&ots=uDObhcwFA9&sig=tC5BC3q2AfxVhMJbvf9XBxKhrOQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result
More info
http://www.classicyacht.info/modules/yachts/White+Wings-TDesigner-yachts_detail-969.html

The most well-known production boat from the J.J. Taylor yard was the fiberglass Contessa sailboats.

C. Ross

10-02-2008, 11:22 PM

A few more pictures:

My boat, named Lady Cliff for about 40 years, originally launched as Pixie K:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2212/2044294339_451fc55ee1.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2128/2045070242_ee8446f8fb.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2210/2044278985_f89bfc9e03.jpg

And a couple other J.J. Taylors I've found on the web

A 1948 30' cruiser

http://www.portcarlingboats.com/jandrews/Pict0043a.jpg

A 1951 30' in poor shape

http://www.woodwindyachts.com/runabouts/taylorcraft1.jpg

I have a few more if you're interested. I also have a few pictures of my boat at launch which I have never digitized.

Posting pictures is easy once you get the hang of it. A frequent poster here, Thorne, has an easy tutorial. Search for his posts by name, and you'll find it...

Post more! I'd love to see more about this sistership...

Lew Barrett

10-02-2008, 11:55 PM

Cris,
I have to believe you've been patiently waiting for this thread for quite some time. J.J. Taylor looks the part, and what a great picture of him. A jolly old man is he!
The boats look great!

C. Ross

10-03-2008, 06:29 AM

Locked and loaded Lew.

Tinman

10-03-2008, 07:28 AM

Chris.

Thanks so much for the information and pictures. I seem to be able to only post tiny little images instead of the beauties you put up, so if you would like, you can email me directly at Tinmaan21@aol.com and I will send a few along of the latest member of the family. We are going to call it the "Laura Ann" in honour of my sister who was killed in an auto accident along with her 11 year old son a year ago this month. We think a classy boat like this is a fitting tribute to a young lady who epitomized class herself. She was only 32 when she died, but the "Laura Ann" will be a wonderful legacy for years to come.

C. Ross

10-04-2008, 07:15 AM

Tinman

Here is the Laura Ann! It's a very close sister ship to mine -- your hull number is 190026, mine is 190030.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3150/2911211917_8b73559c43_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3110/2911211869_b74769b883_o.jpg

I think you're going to find that the cabin sides will look very nice if the paint is stripped off. If you look at the pictures of other boats I posted, you'll see that there is a curved in the plank stepping down from the foredeck to the sheer. It looks like someone may have replaced the top plank on yours and cut it square? In the picture above, is there some damage to the bow right at the waterline?

Please keep posting. She's a beautiful boat and I hope you can get her back into magnificent shape.

Cris

(edit: check out the flared bow rolling to the lovely tumblehome in the bottom picture... I know that hull shape!)

Tinman

10-04-2008, 12:34 PM

Count on it Criss. I am getting her winter berth ready as we speak, and she'll be on the farm on Thursday. Any idea how many of these where built? I only know of yours and mine. I did notice the damage at the waterline, but it is slight and easily repairable. We intend to strip the house and redo it in it's original mahogany appearance. The hardest part of all this will be the waiting till she's ready to go back in the water.

Tinman

10-09-2008, 08:46 PM

Cris.

The latest edition to the family arrived safe and sound on Wednesday, with a little help from a bit of heavy machinery to widen the driveway. Today I opened her up and had my first real good look around. I knew I would be in for a few surprises, but I wasn't expecting the aboslute nightmare I found elelctrically. To say this boat should have burned to the waterline years ago, is a mild understatement. The previous owner [s] where using extension chords and gobs of electrical tape to power all kinds of niftly little add ons. I spent a good part of the day, just ripping out old wiring that went from no where to no where. The list of "Oh my God I can't believe this" events, is far too long to post here. With all that said though, It is anything but a lost cause, and with a little common sense and a lot of new wiring, we shall overcome.

Now I am curious about your boat. I was on the Lady Cliff website today, and noticed first, that the dimensions of your taylor are the same as mine. I also noticed several important differences. You have a larger head than I do, [ on the boat that is ] and you also have an after cabin. I was scratching my head about how you managed to put that in?

One last question. While I know I have found alot of extension cord used in this craft of both the yellow and orange variety, is it possible that marine wiring might look like a yellow extension cord?

Thanks for the information, and I must admit, you have a drop dead gorgeous boat.

Captain Blight

10-09-2008, 09:02 PM

Cris,

I wanted to ask: Does Mark Sauer handle your restoration work? He does do some awfully nice stuff. Plus he's got that rockin' shop.

C. Ross

10-09-2008, 10:36 PM

Tinman

Funny you should ask about wiring.... I have rewired essentially everything. I cannot tell exactly what is original 1948 but there is (was!) some, and there was stuff added later that gave me the willies. What was left of the original wiring harness didn't look particularly well done. Like you, I had a couple hundred feet of dead wiring.

Yellow extension cord wiring? I had some AC solid core wiring in the boat, and the insulation had definitely yellowed, but I doubt my boat had AC when orignally built. Heck - rip it out and be glad you've got her safe now.

But over the last three weeks I've been doing upgrades, now that the dangerous stuff was removed. The inverter is in, the big house bank is in, the DC panel and house switches installed, and I have completed should have the last few AC runs completed this weekend!

As to the design: the aft cabin is original, and there is a head fore and aft. A stupid luxury, I thought, until I spent a couple of weekends with my wife, two daughters and two or three of their girlfriends. I am pretty sure that my salon is a couple of feet shorter than yours, and the aft deck is taken up entirely by the cabin coach.

This picture sort of shows the aft doghouse. You can see a hatch lid on the starboard side, right behind the main cabin.

If you know Chris Craft aft cabin design from 1939-1940, you know this design. Last summer I had someone hail me on the radio and he stopped by the marina with brochures of the 30' 1939 Chris Craft he once owned and it was an extremely similar design.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3182/2709151180_0736f97ac5_o.jpg

So you can see I have no aft deck for lounging, but most people just sit on the doghouse cabintop. The aft cabin is really nice when we're out cruising.

Your boat will be just as lovely when she's done. If the original wood is there you'll be happy - the African mahogany is really splendid, the design is very stable and pleasant.

C. Ross

10-09-2008, 10:45 PM

Captain
Mark Sauer is my man. I'd like to say I do my own restoration, and I have spent many hours on her systems and on woodwork restoration, but Mark and crew do the professional stuff. They replaced a dozen planks and chine logs and did some transom repair two years ago, and stripped and repaired the gunwale covering boards last winter.

And his main shop -- a 1908 two story firehouse with tower -- is fabulous. He does his big boat work in a shop at Watergate Marina.

I think he's the best guy in the upper midwest. http://stpaulshipwrights.com/ As you probably know he does most of the restoration work for Mahogany Bay. http://www.mahoganybay.net/

Just in case you're in the market for a big Chris, Mark's selling this lovely boat: http://stpaulshipwrights.com/theboatpages/GrandLady/GrandLady1.html Disclaimer: Belongs to a good friend, but it is a sweetie of a boat.

Captain Blight

10-09-2008, 11:01 PM

Plus Mr Sauer is just a really really nice guy. I saw him at Watergate a few years ago, he was towing a tandem-engined mahogany go-fast and I came over to ask what it was. He ended up shootin' the breeze with me for a couple hours, gave me a tour of his shop, and pointed me in the direction of a 23' Lyman Islander I ended up buying and renovating and re-selling for a tidy profit.

As luck would have it, I *AM* in the market for a big Chris!!

Tragically, my bank account is not. Maybe a loan? My loan officer looks like she could use a good laugh these days.

C. Ross

10-09-2008, 11:17 PM

Mark is finastkind. Only time I've ever seen him peeved is when his former lead guy quit to go into business for himself, and started calling the old customers.... Where's the Lyman you fixed up?

There are a couple of other fixer-uppers at Saint Paul Yacht Club for sale. Chris Seaskiff, at least one Roamer. PM me if you wanna go peek at some old wood.

Tinman

10-10-2008, 03:30 PM

Cris.

I had the same feeling as you do about the wiring. I intend to rip out all of it and start fresh with a plan about where I want power, and how to get it there without going into the bilge to run it.

I can see from the picture that your cabin is definetly shorter and you do sacrifice some quarter deck space, I'm simply going to leave her as she is. I spent a little more time puling wire and shaking my head today, but to be honest, I loved every minute of it.

Getting back to wiring for a second, is standard 14/2 residential house wire suitable? iF I'm going to go to the trouble of ripping out the old stuff, I am going to make sure I put the right kind in it's place.

Thanks again, and I'll keep you posted as things progress.

C. Ross

10-10-2008, 04:56 PM

Residential wire is unacceptable. It is solid core and not stranded, and it is solid copper and not tinned. If you are in salt water this is a particularly big issue.

Cable sizing? For AC, 14-3 is ok, I stepped up to 12-3 just to be oversized. For DC the cable size depends on the load. For cabin lights, fans, instruments, bilge pumps, 16-2 is fine. For a CO detector or something with a micro load 18-2 is OK. For a refrigerator or the like I used 8 gauge strand. For cabling starters and chargers and main panel, you'll want much heavier gauge 4 up to 0 or larger.

I've used Nigel Calder's electrical and mechanical systems book. You can get it on Amazon, and lots of people here have said favorable things about it.

And, by the way, by all means leave her as she is. Would love to see more pictures, but the more time I spend on my boat the more I appreciate the quality of the interior layout design. Things just seem to ... fit.

Tinman

10-12-2008, 07:02 PM

Criss.

Many thanks for the invaluable information concerning wiring. I really do want to get it right, so it is important to make sure I don't just blunder ahead. I am thinking about the feasability of wiring everything for a/c and running the engines through an inverter so I don't have a blended electrical system. It makes sense to me, but there may also be some very good reasons not to do things that way.

As the work progresses I will post more pictures of what I'm doing, and if you spot anything in those images, that I am doing or getting wrong, please feel free to say so. It is much less expensive to repair an ego, than redo a stupid mistake.

Nick.

C. Ross

10-12-2008, 10:23 PM

Tinman

10-13-2008, 08:42 AM

Nick
You must have a DC system. An AC system is optional, but you'll want it.

Nigel Calder's book is pretty dense and sometimes takes a while to get to the point, but if I were you I'd get a copy and spend some evenings reading it. I did.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516XCJXBDGL._SL500_BO2,204,203,200_AA219_PIsitb-sticker-dp-arrow,TopRight,-24,-23_SH20_OU01_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Boatowners-Mechanical-Electrical-Manual-Calder/dp/0071432388/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223867544&sr=8-1

Unsolicited advice? Lay out a restoration/renovation plan. Electrical might not be at the top. I'd think about something like:

1. Hull and structural repairs.
2. Any big maintenance to engines or transmissions
3. Exterior paint stripping and wood refinishing
4. Electrical and mechanical systems upgrades and repairs
5. Interior paint stripping and refinishing

Do you need a survey for insurance coverage? If so, a survey can really lay out the priorities.

There are others on this site with WAAAY more experience than me. Feel free to jump in...

Criss.

Thanks for the advice. I take comfort in the fact that I was already thinking along the lines you articulated, so it seems for now at least, I'm headed in the right direction. The reason I was discussing wiring, is because I found that birds nest when I began really poking around. Your point about the book and a d/c system are appreciated, I'll get my hands on a copy of it at my next trip to the big city.

If anyone else can save me from blundering into a huge mistake, please by all means, jump in. This isn't about me being the smartest guy at the forums, it's about restoring a classy old lady properly.

Nick.

The Bigfella

10-13-2008, 06:54 PM

Tinman

I'm 8 years down the path you are following. Much progress has been made and some regression.

One of my early discoveries was that a lot more needed replacing than we thought at first. We had to replace every deck beam and the cabin sides.

Chris has outlined a program pretty much along the lines of what we did.

Structural first, mechanical systems, now I'm ready to do electrical then finally get back to the finishes.

Good luck. I know just how bad the wiring issues can be. Try to map out how it is currently done before you rip it all out.

Tinman

10-13-2008, 08:32 PM

Thanks for the encouragement. I am finding out about more needing to be done already, and it's only really day two. We opened up the deckhead in the head, and found plenty of rotten wet wood. It was located just forward of the focs'le hatch and just aft of the windlass. My guess is, that since the hatch coaming has some decay, that the water is seeping in between the teak decking, and the plywood underneath. I need to change two supports that have rotted, but not nearly as serious as I first thought. I can't find a ready access to the fuel tanks anywhere, so I removed the sound absorbing insulation and finally got a chance to assess their condition. If my calculations are right, I have 180 gallons fuel capacity. [ the tanks appear fine btw ] A bigger problem, is what to do with 70 gallons of four year old gasoline still in them. Ah well, things could be worse I suppose.

Thanks for your moral support and suggestions, they are all much appreciated

All in all, it was a good day.

Lew Barrett

10-13-2008, 08:50 PM

Tinman,

If your boat is of the same vintage as Cris' vessel, it's unlikely she was originally decked with plywood. If she was built later, then maybe. If so then, this will not be the first time the deck will have been examined for issues, and a plan to repair it in full could be in order.

It's probably advisable to review some options, and really form the game plan, as has been discussed. Cris mentioned getting a survey and that would be a nice place to start.

Many of us start out as novices so you're in excellent company.
I have a lot of thoughts about how I might go about things differently if I were to start over, but amongst them would be to consider the order of work as a paramount first decision. And by the way, nobody has said you can't tackle two or three major alligators at once, for you can, and probably will. But just as a house needs a good foundation for additional work to be practical, , so it is advisable to direct the course of work according to the primary and secondary needs, making sure that nothing that comes after the first, second and third jobs will disturb them, and that all the work will build upon itself sensibly.

As Ian (Bigfella) implied, most of us end up doing considerably more by some order of magnitude than had been at first indicated. And he laid it out. Structure, systems, cosmetics.

Take an honest inventory of the boat's structural strengths and weaknesses, and have some trusted allies help you in doing so. Our allies see what we don't
and can be more objective about conditions we tend to overlook but that can be troublesome in the long run if not addressed.

Shall I go on? I can:D

C. Ross

10-13-2008, 09:01 PM

We opened up the deckhead in the head, and found plenty of rotten wet wood.

All in all, it was a good day.

Your boat has found the right owner.

Lew - yup, the underlayment on my foredeck is solid not ply.

Gas tanks on mine are 60 gal each, for what it's worth.

One other thing you might check is the point where the ribs meet the chine logs if you can get in there. Again, assuming your construction is the same as mine the original chines were beveled so that any water would remain puddled on top, which led to rot.

Does yours have bronze floors and knees bolted into the frames?

Lew Barrett

10-14-2008, 12:12 AM

Then I'm sorry to opine that it's likely that rot or delamination extends beyond what can be seen without, as they say in the salad business, de-construction.
If a boat has sleeping quarters up north, then without exception it will prove out that a tight foredeck is one of the fundamentals of familial happiness.

BETTY-B

10-14-2008, 12:57 AM

Is it me or is the boat sitting bow down and listing to starbird? If so, you'll want to level that out for safety and because it's bad on the structure. Can you lift it again? Put it down on a blocking in the stern. Then level it on a block forward. Followed by more blocking in the middle that is put in with good strong wedges.
Do you have boat stands to keep it from tipping sideways? 4x4's with wedges work too. And are extremely cheaper. Make sure to put a strong line or chain between them if their angle against the hull is severe enough to possibly force them out from movement aboard or earthquake or whatever.

I'd get a cover over it right away too. Stop the water from doing any more damage since it's going to be a while anyway. A temp structure over the whole thing is ideal, but not necessary. Making it an inviting place to work is good though.

There's lots of boat wiring books. Buy a few, read them thoroughly and have a strict plan before wiring anything. Get an account at the marine electric store and buy bulk not by the foot. I'd do 10/3 from the shore power to the main ac panel too. Just to be sure for future and all. But really, you have many individual projects here that will need figurin' when the time comes.

Cool boat, Tinman. It's neat to see another family member of Cris's beauty. And of course we will all want to see many pics as you go.

DAN

ADDED: I just realized that picture was not where it is now. Hopefully you got it leveled out properly.... Also, where's the newest pics Tinman? :- )

Duncan Gibbs

10-14-2008, 06:31 AM

I know just how bad the wiring issues can be.

So do I! Ian attempted a mid-EBS repair of the head via some nifty use of excess extention lead, but alas... To no avail!! I wuz forced onto the fordeck mit bucket and rope when I awoke on board a week and a half ago!! :D:D

Nice boat Cris! Did see you guys enjoying the river just after Mystic! May have to form a boarding party when I visit you lot up thar!!;)

The Bigfella

10-14-2008, 05:57 PM

Duncan raises an interesting point - the wiring defect that put the head out of action was in the newest piece of electric equipment on the boat - it was a poorly crimped power lead to the brush of the electric motor on the head.

As for other electrics on Grantala ... I removed some original 1937 wiring during the rebuild - stuff where the rubber insulation had turned to goo. I also drew up a wiring diagram for the 12v side of my 240v genset. One wire had five separate pieces between the key and its destination - all different colours. Nightmare stuff.

BETTY-B

10-14-2008, 09:10 PM

I just saw more knob and tube (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob_and_tube_wiring) in the depths of BETTY the other day. The wire didnt have rubber on it, it had lead. And the fuses were just knife switches. Talk about nightmare stuff. And on top of that, all the years of moron re-wiring done too. Yes, it's best to do the whole mess over from scratch. Probably quicker in the end as well.

C. Ross

10-14-2008, 09:37 PM

May have to form a boarding party when I visit you lot up thar!!;)

Count on it, Duncan. All are welcome. Loved the pics of the EBS on Grantala.

J. A.Tones

10-14-2008, 11:45 PM

I cannot agree more with Betty-B's comment regarding getting the hull level in all aspects. When I brought our boat home for the re-configuration project I paid the haulers an extra 100 bux to help me get her dead level. I have thanked my luck in making that decision so many times as now I can use a carpenters level when installing the interior and know that when she is re-launched and ballasted back to her water line everything will be correct.
Take a few hours and shim her level - you won't regret it

John Tones MV Penta
Sidney, BC

Tinman

10-15-2008, 01:43 AM

Thanks for all the great information guys. I will be posting more photos as I go, but at the moment the digital camera is playing hide and seek and winning. The boat now sits at the end of my driveway, and when we blocked her up we put half a dozen keel blocks down, 4 supports along the chine, two more long poles over the forward head portal that are anchored by 2 and a half feet of iron fence post driven into the ground. So I'm pretty sure the boat won't be moving again until I put her back on the trailer. We where very lucky in finding a really competent mover. He was a great guy, and helped make sure the boat was level before he pulled out from underneath. He used a carpenter's level to make sure and after reading the posts tonight, I am glad he did.

I know this thread started with me wailing about her electrical mess, and if I gave the impression that this was where I intended to start the rebuild, then let me correct that notion. I have always intended to begin with the hull and work from the bottom up and outside in, and it seems that is the right course of action based on the sound advice I'm getting so far. I will confess to fretting over the wiring when I first got her, but that was a momentary distraction.

Thank you all for your insights and helpful hints, I will continue to update as we progress.

Tinman

10-22-2008, 07:41 PM

Thought I'd bring everyone up to speed on what has been going on lately. While we haven't done alot other than make the boat "comfortable" We have ripped out the carpet in the salon, and began covering her with a tarp for the winter. Ok several tarps is more like it. I've also discovered a small spot on the hull at the chine that needs some repair, but at least at this point it dosn't appear major. I'll be putting a little oil in the cylinders of the engines soon to make sure they will roll over when the starters engage, but for now at least, The heavy work will have to wait till spring.

Is there any way to accurately calculate the weight of a boat? Short of re trailering it and running it over a set of MTO scales, I am simply shooting in the dark. I am considering the possibility of a costum built trailer but in order to do that I need to be at least close.

Any suggestions?

C. Ross

10-22-2008, 10:52 PM

I've also discovered a small spot on the hull at the chine that needs some repair, but at least at this point it dosn't appear major.

Nick

See my post#14 above - I had a similar problem. The chine logs were beveled in a way that did not drain well and there was significant rot. I'm curious what you might find if you have to remove the plank to deal with that spot.

Is there any way to accurately calculate the weight of a boat?

Someone may come along with a nifty formula. I am travelling today, but when I get home I will post the ratio of weight to displacement on mine for a good guess. The number carved into the beam next to your hull number is the displacement.

I am considering the possibility of a costum built trailer but in order to do that I need to be at least close.

Why build a trailer rather than having a professional haul it? This is not a trailerable boat...what do you have in mind?

Hey, and where are the pictures!? :D

Tinman

10-23-2008, 02:23 AM

Cris.

Ok the idea of trailering was a small burst of temporary insanity. I get a feeling if I where so foolish as to go that route,, one would never be sure if the truck was pulling, or the boat was pushing. I do hereby promise to post pictures sooner rather than later, although right now she is not exactly in show room shape. One thing is for sure, even with the carpet ripped out and the focs'le partly gutted, she is still one sweet lookin boat.

georgel

10-23-2008, 05:18 PM

C. Ross

10-24-2008, 02:04 AM

Nick
People around here like pictures of boats in nasty, ugly, half-repaired condition. Bring 'em on! Glad you rethought the trailering....

George
Love your boat. I understand wanting more enclosed space, though lots of times I'd love a big open cockpit like yours.
In any case, I don't think you can have an aft cabin design unless the engines are amidships, and yours look to be aft, under the cockpit?

Anyway, here are some interior pictures of aft cabin...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2361/2045069690_aee3c9a369.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2314/2044278149_8a0fdd7350.jpg

Tinman

10-24-2008, 05:18 PM

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31739527@N02/2969599293/http://www.flickr.com/photos/31739527@N02/2969599293/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31739527@N02/2969599299/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31739527@N02/2969599303/

Hope I did this right.

georgel

10-24-2008, 08:26 PM

You are right, The Engines are Under the cockpit sole. So the doghouse solution Is not feasible for my boat. But I do like its look. My keel bolts were steel and are gone. So I will be removing the floors and installing new bronze keel bolts and quite a few ribs. I hope to start a blog. In a couple of months just to document the process.
Electrical stuff can be done a bit at a time even with the boat tarped for the winter. Marine grade wiring is definitely the way to go. It is pricey but there is not that much of it. I have in the past worked as a marine electrician. And having stranded tinned wiring will prevent problems down the road. As already stated start with a Plan, Make a diagram.
I will be using a few waterproof exterior plastic boxes where appropriate. Plastic does have its uses.
George

C. Ross

10-24-2008, 08:55 PM

Nick-
You're so close on picture posting. If you copy the http://www.... address for the pictures, click the little mountain icon, and then paste in the picture, you get...this:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3014/2969599307_b462644b18.jpg

I recognize that galley and the hinged cover to the stove. (My stove was retrofitted...what do you have under there?)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2045/2041041297_77b9285100.jpg

George-
I hope you do start a blog, or at least post more pictures here. You have a sweet looking boat and it'll be nice to see the restoration process....

sdowney717

10-25-2008, 07:14 AM

If you want to you can restore the gasoline using this product
pri-g
http://www.priproducts.com/prigproduct.htm

I can personally tell you I took 5 yr old gasoline and it made it like new. It has no odor and I wonder how it works.

Also , if anyone cares to share, what mileage , fuel usage do you get on the boat?

Tinman

10-25-2008, 05:02 PM

Cris. One of these days, I will figure this picture thing out. The answer to your what is under there question, is a microwave. Or at least that is what was there when I bought it. Somehow I think I will revert to a little more period appropriate appliance. I meant to ask you what engines you have, and if you installed a fuel gauge. [ There is no way of determining the fuel level on my boat short of the knock knock method. Hardly an attractive option. ] How difficult is it to pull the powerplants for a potential rebuild? I have a feeling that no matter how I go about it, removing the engines will be a pain, if it is required.

sdowney717. Than you for the link for the gas additive. I will indeed investigate this further. What did it cost you for 32 oz? and where is it available? I have no doubt it works as you say it does, but there is nothing as convincing as a V8 purring quietly beneath your feet running on that 5 year old gas, to close the sale so to speak.

Lew Barrett

10-25-2008, 05:27 PM

Here's an aside of no particular worth.:)

Frequently an adequate "rebuild" can be done in situ; for example, a valve job, new head gaskets etc. don't usually require that you pull the motors. It's not that hard to pull them if you can get them out without cutting holes in the boat. Taking them out in parts is often the alternative to pulling them out wholesale. Otherwise, it's a hole in the roof!

Again, photos would be remarkably helpful. If you email them to me or Cris, we can put them up for you.

It was interesting to read that Cris's old Chryslers were replaced with 318s. I think of 318s as old though for years, anything with OHV heads seemed modern compared to my flat heads! I once looked at a 1950 Monk equipped with a 318 and the mechanic in attendance said: "you know that engine is obsolete.":D

There is charm in old engines that can't be replicated in new ones, but things have been nice since we put in our Diesels. Benefits abound either way; rebuilding the old, replacing them with new. In cruisers, absolute mechanical originality isn't as financially as significant as it is in runabouts. In fact, basic mechanical integrity is the most important thing to strive for. Originality, or the appearance of it, is less important in the ER, but very important in the fittings and furniture. On the other hand, when touring an old boat, it is extremely enjoyable to see an old well maintained plant in a clean, happy ship. And of course, the old motors can be quite beautiful. Try to look around and see how others have organized their ERs to get a feel for what is properly shippy.

sdowney717

10-25-2008, 06:31 PM

http://www.rivermarinesupply.com/xcart/customer/search.php?substring=pri-g

they have it for a good price. West Marine also sells this.
Read up on some online testimonies, makes it sound pretty good.
But it really did work just fine.

they sell a pri-d product for diesel, but I cant testify how good or bad it is.

Eliminates tank slime & sludge from algae

Tired of constantly changing those expensive spin-on filters because of algae slime? While biocides like our own PRI-OCIDE (http://www.priproducts.com/priocide.htm) are effective in killing algae, they don't eliminate the slime produced by decomposing micro-organisms. In fact, algae slime sinks to the bottom of your tank, building up a layer of muck that can choke filters and leave you stopped dead when you hit rough seas or bumpy roads.

C. Ross

10-25-2008, 10:41 PM

Nick
Lew got it right - my original straight-six Graymarines were replaced with 1967 Chrysler 318s. They are reliable and pretty common, but parts are getting a little tough. One of my exhaust manifolds rusted out and I was able to find a replacement just fine, but I would like to replace the fuel pumps and you can't get them anymore. I have found Marysville Marine to be a very reliable supplier http://www.marysvillemarine.com/ and have ordered parts from Marineparts.com http://www.marineparts.com/ (I was able to find an original operational manual at Marysville, which has been invaluable.)

I've not had to pull the engines, and wouldn't want to. When you get to that, post more questions. Lew repowered and his engine room makes me weak at the knees, but I wager it wasn't cheap or easy.

Fuel guage? Mine is a wooden dipstick with marks on it. Works great. I looked at flowmeters - too pricey and not worth it in my book.

My stove is an old Kenyon combo electric and alcohol burner. I use it a lot. There are a bunch of really good shipstove threads on the forum you can search if you want to replace the microwave.

Tinman

10-26-2008, 09:24 PM

Criss. I should have thought of the the dipstick idea myself. We used a dip tape in the Navy and it worked remarkably well. I will "design" a fuel gauge just as soon [ grunt] as I [ pant pant ] get the damn [ scream of frustration ] fuel caps off!
I haven't yet decided wether or not to pull the engines. I feel completely capable of tearing them down and rebuidling them myself, I just don't know yet if it is necessary. The Canadian government did spend a small fortune to train me to be a marine engineer after all, and it would be a real waste of taxpayers dollars not to put that training to use.Having said that though, when the time comes, I will be asking all kinds of questions.

I have been trading emails with Geoff Taylor the great grand nephew of JJ himself. He has sent me some amazing images of his uncles handiwork stretching back almost a century as well as a brief history of the taylor family. I would post them here, but I don't have his consent to put them online. However, if you would like me to forward you the emails, I would be glad to do that.

On another note, I was at a small marina just south of Ottawa yesterday, and there in his yard, sat a 1905 yacht that was previously owned by a New York silk merchant. It is roughly 50 feet long, and with a beam of about 10 feet. [ very long and narrow, not a good deep water boat ] It is in really rough shape, but the owner Philip Ludlow, swears it can and will be restored. It will be magnificent when he is finsihed. Tragically, I forgot my camera so I can't share any pictures with you. I will rectify that on my next visit.

That's it for now. youi can email me at Tinmaan21@aol.com if youwould like those messages and images sent by Mr Taylor.

C. Ross

10-26-2008, 10:28 PM

Nick

Thanks very much - I will email separately and would love to see the pictures and text.

Good luck with your engine decisions. Have you checked to see if they run? I assume it's winterizing season up there too. Before all the decent marine mechanics change jobs for the winter or head down to Florida, maybe you can find one to help you start the engines and figure things out.

That boat in Ottawa. Sounds like a canal boat, built for the Rideau? I really like Ottawa, and the whole stretch between Ottawa and Quebec City. You live in a very pretty place.

Lew Barrett

10-27-2008, 10:03 AM

Not only is a dip stick simple and cheap, it is also the most reliable gauge you can use. Fuel gauges on boats are remarkably unreliable, but a stick is.....a stick.
You don't need to mark it at every gallon. Rita's sitck is marked at 20 gallon increments (she has two 140 gallon tanks) and that does the job quite nicely, thank you. It's best if you can start from near empty and mark the stick at your desired increments as you fill her, using the the pump's flow meter as the
indication. Many tanks are custom fitted in place, so an inch of fuel at the bottom may not be the same as an inch of fuel at the top.

Tinman

10-27-2008, 09:49 PM

Cris. The boat at the marina was used by a silk merchant in New york city. He used it like a car, crossing the river every day so there was no need to worry himself about open water sea worthiness. The Ottawa river is a very popular spot for boaters and the rideau river has severl well equipped marinas. There is a move afoot to put in a set of locks so you can get around the rapids and dam just upstream Ottawa. That would allow you to travel the length of the river from Temiskaming all the way to Jolly old England if you have the time, nerve, and fuel for it. It is indeed a very picturesque place, and the valley is the crown jewel. Concerning the engines, the port one won't budge for the starter, so the next trick is a bit of oil in the spark plug holes. If that don't do it, it is rebuild time. The stbd one hasn't been tried yet, but I have a feeling I should expect the same result. Fuel sticks are a very economical and reliable way of making sure you power out from the jetty and power back. Running out of fuel anywhere, let alone a river, is never a fun thing, anchors or no. I have tried to send you those emails, but for some reason they keep coming back, so I'll have another go at it in the morning. I will also keep you posted on what happens with the power plants. Part of me wants desperately to tear them down and re do them, but the more mature side says don't go lookin for trouble where there isn't any already.

C. Ross

10-27-2008, 09:59 PM

Bad news about portside engine...you might start another thread about starting a seized engine. I'll bet you get good advice here.

I received three emails from you with great picture links and text, and sent back a note. They are terrific! Thank you.

Tinman

10-27-2008, 10:03 PM

sdowney717

10-28-2008, 07:45 AM

If you want to free up the cylinder use a rust buster like
PBlaster.
You want something to dissolve rust, plain oil wont do that.
buy several cans and spray in thru the sparkplug holes a good sized quantity and then let it sit.
change the oil out to a thinner oil and figure out a way to spin up the oil pump and get the oil moving before starting.

In past days, you could pull the distributer and use a powerful drill to spin the oil pump.

Tinman

10-28-2008, 01:32 PM

The power drill idea should work, considering where the distributer is on this engine. I am also curious about how to best seperate engine from transmission if it becomes necessary, but perhaps a seperate thread is the right idea in that case.

sdowney717

10-28-2008, 03:40 PM

transmissions are splined shaft to the engine.
undo the bolts and the trans slips off.

I rebuilt a velvet drive, you can buy rebuild kits. And it is a lot simpler than a car transmission.
After 30 years there was nothing wrong internally except that rust had formed on one face of the oil pump carrier and caused it to leak.

A scrape down with a razor blade cured that leak. I saved all the clutch discs since they were not worn. The trans just goes into gear and only clutch wear would come from going forward to reverse. You can buy a book that details the process.

Tinman

10-28-2008, 09:09 PM

So I don't have to worry about dropping trans fluid in the bilge? That is good news. I'm going to try the fluid in the cylinders, but I'm planning a rebuild at this point., Kinda lookin forward to it really. :o)

C. Ross

10-28-2008, 09:22 PM

You can buy small hand-driven pumps if you want to suck out the transmission fluid. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/268534/377%20710%201679/0//Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710%201679&Ne=0&Ntt=&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&page=CategoryDisplayLevel1&isLTokenURL=true

You might also drop in a couple of oil-absorbing sheets just to keep things less slippy.

Tinman

10-28-2008, 09:42 PM

Good idea, especially the drop cloth.

Tinman

10-31-2008, 10:38 PM

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31739527@N02/2990996998/

Tinman

10-31-2008, 10:39 PM

Well that didn't work. Here is the link to flickr for a peek at the engines, and transmission set up. The E.R looks grungy, but a little steam cleaning and bilge paint should remedy that.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31739527@N02/?saved=1

C. Ross

11-02-2008, 05:20 PM

Nick-

Looks familiar. I have an identical fuel valve and filter arrangement - nice to know it's original. I replaced the fuel lines with flex.

I'm curious about two things.

First, it looks like there are old motor mounts immediately in front of the port engine that supported the original Graymarines. That what you have too?

Second, what's right in front of the engines? I'm guessing compressor for the refrigerator? I have ghost screw holes and marks on the floorboards in the same place and I've assumed it was compressor, but would like to know.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3042/2990992622_65701ca454_o.jpg

Thanks for posting this stuff. It's nice to document my boat by similarities with yours, and would be glad to take pictures and post any details you might like.

Tinman

11-02-2008, 09:07 PM

Cris.

The stringers under the engines you can see in the shot, are the ones the engine rests on now. If it is original, and I can find no evidence that it isn't, then the first motors had the same basic dimensions as what is there now. The object directly in front of the engines, is in fact a CO2 bottle for the E.R. fire supression system. The only other things in the vicinity, is the hot water tank, [ most certainly not original ] and the battery rack. The genset is set between the engines just ahead of the fuel filters. [ it has been removed and now rests on the quarter deck. I may replace the copper fuel lines with flex if it begins to leak, but for now at least, I'll likely leave them as they are. I'm comfortable working with copper, and as the old saying goes, if it ain't broke.. I am curious about your genset. Do you have the one that came with the boat when she was born? The one I have is a 1 k that dates from the 60's, or at that is what I'm told. I'm also interested to see if you where able to use the ice box as originally fitted. The one I have seem sto be the right age, and I'd love to use it if I can get it working. I have a shot of it here somewhere and when I find it, I'll put it up. I'd like to see what your breaker panel and wiring system looks like for future reference, as well and any advice you might have have about mending broken ribs. I have discovered three or four to them, and not sure how big a deal to make of it. I have enough white oak to effect repairs, but the ribs don't seem seriously damaged, just cracked at the chine. So I can re inforce them, just not sure if it is necessary.

C. Ross

11-02-2008, 09:49 PM

Nick
Thanks for info about the layout.

I don't have a genset, and I don't think the boat came with one. I just installed an 3000W inverter, and a big house bank. Enough for me, especially since I don't have air conditioning and am a river boater and mostly tie up at a dock at night.

I have the original ice box, retrofitted with an Adler-Barbour freezer/refrigerator unit, like this one. I'll send some pictures. http://www.dometic.com/enus/Americas/USA/Marine/Refrigerators/Refrigeration/?productdataid=74757

http://www.dometic.com/FileOrganizer/productimages/marine/refrigerator/VD-152.jpg

I can also send pictures of wiring. Just redid it, and am pretty pleased with the outcome.

Now, the cracked ribs. If you read way back in this thread I mentioned that I had to have a number of them sistered on each side due to cracks exactly as you describe. They were serious enough to replace, even more so because the chine log on the port side was badly rotten for about 8 feet and needed to be replaced and scarfed to the original. I will post pictures. The repair was beyond my skills.

It would be helpful to get opinions from others here. Do cracked ribs always necessitate sistering or replacement?

Tinman

11-02-2008, 10:12 PM

Thanks for the information Cris. Concerning the ribs, there is no sign of rot, just a thin line fracure at the deepest part of the bend. I am going to try the old compressor for the ice box, and with any luck, it will work. I'd love to use it if I can. I look forward to seeing what you did with wiring. I've tried to post more pics, but for some reason, I'm having trouble logging in to flickr.

Tinman

11-04-2008, 12:48 PM

georgel

11-04-2008, 03:01 PM

SOP for firing up engines that have been sitting around is a recipe given to me by my uncle. He was a farm mechanic back in the 40's and 50's. Pull the plugs. fill the cylinders with a mix of diesel and lube oil. [ or penetrate] leave over night. + the other obvious things like clean electrical connections in the starting and ignition systems. Use fresh fuel. Generally you will wind up replacing ignition wires etc. so If you do it out front you are ahead of the game. If you are talking 318's. They are a super reliable engine and are probably still good. The Hydraulic valve lifters if so equiped will likely be sticky or frozen. You can try to clean them insitu with chemicals. Or it is pretty simple to pull them with the engine in place. Then disassemble and clean them. Or replace if needed. bettor Marine conversions used solid lifters. And that is the way to go.
If you have L head engines, the Soak is important as the valve stems freeze in the guides when the engine sits for long periods. I am currently liking PB Blaster to free things up. also you will want to replace the old coils with newer hotter ones. typically pleasure boat engines don't have a lot of hours on them. So with rebuilt starters, alternators, [Generators] and new ignition parts They will probably run just fine. Keep changing the Lube oil till it comes up clean. One trick is to add some automatic trans. Fluid to the oil to facilitate that cleaning.

C. Ross

11-04-2008, 05:17 PM

Tinman

11-04-2008, 07:40 PM

I thought you might be interested. The only complaint, is that you don't see them under construction, or any interior shots.

C. Ross

11-04-2008, 07:45 PM

Darn, I guess we'll just have to put up with exteriors. :D

Here's a link to Ontario archives that includes J.J. Taylor and Sons historical documents. I sometimes think about making a field trip to dig through the archives. If you're ever there, give it a look?

http://archeion-aao.fis.utoronto.ca/cgi-bin/ifetch?DBRootName=ON&RecordKey=42&FieldKey=F&FilePath=ON00009c/ON00009-c_94.xml

Man, I am pumped up about this. Can't wait to see the DVD, brother.

Tinman

11-04-2008, 09:30 PM

I have watched the film about 5 or 6 times now, and damn they look good. There is also alot of footage about launcing of other craft, both civilian and miliatry. They show a fairmile on sea trials firing her 20 mm cannon, and dropping a depth charge, in Lake Ontario! Can you imagine the fuss that would cause today?? There are even a few glimpses of the old man himself on the second cd. If i thought there where enough "Taylors" still alive, I'd start a club.

C. Ross

11-04-2008, 09:47 PM

They show a fairmile on sea trials firing her 20 mm cannon, and dropping a depth charge, in Lake Ontario! Can you imagine the fuss that would cause today??

Live ammo and a picnic cruise. What could be better?

There are even a few glimpses of the old man himself on the second cd. If i thought there where enough "Taylors" still alive, I'd start a club.

There are 7 listed in the 2008 Antique and Classic Boat Society directory. The listing doesn't include yours, and a few others in this thread, so we gotta be at about 10.

We'll never know how many there are until we start the club!

pila

11-05-2008, 12:41 AM

You may want to inspect the exhaust manifolds if the boat has been idle for a considerable time. They seem to rust through faster when sitting empty/dry rather than when run frequently.

ben2go

11-06-2008, 04:29 PM

I'm following this thread.I love old things especially historical things.I like that you guys are saving some history.Not many woodies left around,especial down here in the southeastern US.

Tinman

11-06-2008, 10:53 PM

I gotta agree with Cris. Live ammo and a BBQ would be tough to beat. A taylor club wouldbe way to cool too. The more I learn about Taylor and the men who worked for him, the more respect I have not only for his boat I have been blessed to aquire, but for the man himself. I am an amature historian specializing in the area of Canadian military history, and it is a thrill to know that the men who built this boat, are also responsible for helping in some small way, to meet the greatest challenge the world has ever known. [ I'm being melodramatic I know, but is just me. ]
----------------------------

I will check the exhaust headers. They seem fine, but who knows what evil lurks in there?

Tinman

11-06-2008, 10:57 PM

One more thing I forgot to mention. I sent a note to Geoff Taylor thanking him fo the dvd's, and was felt bold enough to ask him about the possiblity of aquiring the original blueprints for our boats. He responded today saying he wasn't sure if they where available, but he would look. Now that would be cool..

C. Ross

12-06-2008, 11:59 AM

Here is Tinman's boat, Laura Ann. (Lousy image, captured from video.)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3136/3087445966_09aaf17d3c_o.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_vpMz1C2oQ

The video shows the launch and sea trials of three boats:

1. Tinman's now-Laura Ann (blue cabin tops)
2. Lady Alva (identical to my boat, aft cabin and green cabin tops)
3. Pixie-K, now my Lady Cliff, in the last 20 seconds or so.

It is a great joy to see launch films of your own boat sixty summers ago.

Thanks to Tinman, and Geoff Taylor!

glennmajestic

12-06-2008, 12:33 PM

MKane

12-06-2008, 01:19 PM

:pWOW ! That video is awesome.

Only on the WBF could you see something like this thread.

Keep posting pics of both boats, we are waiting for more.

MK

ben2go

12-06-2008, 01:47 PM

That's a great vid.Are those hulls semi displacement or fast displacment?They cut the water good.

C. Ross

12-06-2008, 04:31 PM

I'd say fast displacement.

But here's some RCMP patrol boats that really get up and go...same yard, about the same year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyyzwUqlruE

ben2go

12-06-2008, 05:12 PM

Those movies are the greatest.

carioca1232001

12-07-2008, 05:24 PM

I'd say fast displacement.

I´d only heard of semi-displacement.

Could you please expand on fast displacement ?

What are the (design) cruising and top speeds for your - and tinman´s - boat ?

Any data for fuel consumption at these speeds ?

Thanks

C. Ross

12-07-2008, 05:59 PM

Well, for a real answer you'll need mmd or one of the other ship designers on this forum to weigh in...

I think of powerboats as displacement or planing, and some sailboats as semi-displacement (because they would plane if they had enough sail power).

Hull speed is 1.5 times the square root of the hull length for a displacement boat, right? Ours are 36 feet, so a moderate-sized power plant could theoretically drive the boat to 6 x 1.5 = 9 knots. Comfortable cruising speed is indeed 8 - 9 knots on mine, at about 1700 RPM, and I use about 7 gallons per hour at that rate.

I have pushed the engines only to 2800 RPM and can get 12 knots, and use about 10-12 gallons per hour at that rate.

Tinman's hull is the same shape and length, and his displacement is the same as mine, so I imagine the performance will be similar.

A friend at the club who is a great mechanic on old engines insists I can push the engines to 3800 RPM which might get me to 16 knots. The old movies make it look like they might be making that rate, or maybe better. Something to try next summer, with a mechanic on board!

carioca1232001

12-07-2008, 06:22 PM

Thanks, C.Ross.

Mine is a 34-foot Scandinavian-design built in Brazil in ´62.

Prior to embarking on a bow-to-stern refurbishment project in August 2004, the cruising and top-end speeds were in the region of 8-9 knots/ 1800 rpm (cruising) and 12-13 knots / 2200 rpm (top-end) respectively.

The original ChrisCraft V-8´s (2 x 175 HP) were replaced with a pair of (roughly equivalent) 4-cylinder turbo-diesels (2600 rpm max).

Fuel consumption is a modest 5-6 gallons / hour at crusing speed (1800 RPM), but considerably higher at 2200 rpm.

I suspect the catch is......'The old movies make it look like they might be making that rate, or maybe better ' ....as per your last post ;)

C. Ross

12-07-2008, 06:44 PM

Sounds like the same laws of physics apply in Brazil as the US!

Clearly you get much better consumption per hour with turbo diesel than I do with gasoline. Perhaps someday I will upgrade for economy, safety and quiet...

glennmajestic

12-07-2008, 06:55 PM

I wonder where those boats are now?

Tinman

12-07-2008, 06:58 PM

Tinman, nice boat
just one question,you mentioned the bad fuel but didn't mention what your tanks were made of.If they are steel I would get them pressure tested for safety's sake it is cheap and easy and could save your life or those of your crew.sounds like you got a handful but if you have to change or repair the tanks better to know soon!

Good advice! They are made of galvanized steel, and so far I have noticed no sign of leaking or corrosion, but better safe than sorry. I still can't get the fuel caps off, but I'll conquer that this spring it is after all, 10 f outside as I write this and going colder tonight. When I sat and watched that video the first time, I got goose bumps.
----------------------------------------

Now I find out that one of the last survivng Fairmiles built in Canada during world war two has been lifted out and will be refurbished to it's WW2 configuration in Sarnia. Hopefully in time for the Canadian Navy Centennial in Halifax in May of 2010. There is only one other still alive that has been converted to a pleasure yacht and is in the Med where it has been since the end of the war. So this is the last of a incredible chapter of our history. To read more about them, I highly recommend reading "Champagne Navy" Canada's small boats of world war two. To say it is an amazing tale of heroism and seamanship is a huge understatement. My favorite story from the book, is when a gorup of MTB's came upon a few survivors of two foundered U boats, and ended up "recruiting" the subs cook. A Nazi in the morning, and able seaman Macarthur by lunch time. What a story.

carioca1232001

12-07-2008, 07:52 PM

....Clearly you get much better consumption per hour with turbo diesel than I do with gasoline. Perhaps someday I will upgrade for economy, safety and quiet...

Yes, lower consumption, specially as diesel in Brazil is 70% the price of petrol !

The petrol-to-diesel swap was spurred by :

1. The task of sizing up the parts required for rebuilding the raw-water-cooled CC V-8´s operating in salt water :eek:;
2. Importing the above parts;
3. The potential fire/explosion hazard with petrol engines;
4. Operational economy with diesels

Are diesels less noisier than petrol engines ? Not sure !

In meticuluosly planned setups, engines are encased within acoustic enclosures. In addition, drive-shaft components and engine mounts are likewise custom tailored.

Lew Barrett

12-07-2008, 08:06 PM

The Diesels, as Cecil knows, keep getting better. If I were repowering today, I'd probably have no choice but to use common rail electronic motors. Those run quite as efficiently as is possible at this state of the art, and I hear they are quieter too, since the fuel is so precisely metered that a great deal of the rattle is gone with them.

I could get into how to keep an engine room quiet. It's a long, tedious discussion we've had before.:D

I have some questions about the fuel manifold and filtering set up in Tinman's photos. They're just questions based on my experience. Shall I fire?

Dan McCosh

12-07-2008, 08:24 PM

I´d only heard of semi-displacement.

Could you please expand on fast displacement ?

What are the (design) cruising and top speeds for your - and tinman´s - boat ?

Any data for fuel consumption at these speeds ?

Thanks

There is no such thing as a semi-displacement hull, or a fast-displacement hull. A hull that eventually lifts out of the water and thus reduces its surface area is a planing hull. A planing hull that is underpowered, and never quite gets to where it actually planes, could , i suppose, be called a semi- or fast-displacement hull. A displacement never creates lift. An extremely narrow hull, such as a catamaran, can have a high coefficient number when calculating waterline hull speed, or it can plane. Either situation causes the usual hull speed limitation to more or less disappear.

C. Ross

12-07-2008, 08:38 PM

I have some questions about the fuel manifold and filtering set up in Tinman's photos. They're just questions based on my experience. Shall I fire?

By all means. The setup in mine is the same, so fire away!

Tinman

12-07-2008, 09:11 PM

I know I'm the least experienced amongst the crowd here, but one of the things I like about how things are set up in my boat, is the water/dirt pocket that catches sediment well below the feedline to the fuel filters. We had similar set ups in the Navy, and it seemed to have a very positive effect on filter life. I intend to leave that aspect of the fuel system alone. Is this unique to this craft? or is it common amongst cruisers of this size/type?

Lew Barrett

12-07-2008, 11:56 PM

Keeping water and dirt out of the fuel is if anything even more critical for Diesels. My question(s) have been building along with the thread.

First question is if it's very important (or not) to keep something like the fuel lines and fuel plumbing/manifold in original spec, especially if the boat's been re-powered. See where this is going? if not, why not do away with the gate valves and go to a real manifold, replacing the valves with something a bit more up to date like these (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/search.do?freeText=fuel+line+valves&page=GRID&engine=adwords!6456&keyword=fuel_line_valves), since they and the existing fuel lines, look quite ancient. Replacing all that plumbing with a nice new set up and new line (and checking the tanks as has been suggested) seems like a very worthwhile first step. You will of course, remember my experience at Todd Inlet. If not I can direct you to the article, which has taken something like 100,000 hits!:D

I have a thing about "original." Original is nice when it's been thoroughly rebuilt and tested, and the user is a purist or a luddite, but for most people I believe that for a cruising boat, some systems are better off as thoroughly modern. Keep the original part of a cruising boat for the cosmetics and the interesting stuff that shows. I prefer to have some modern concessions to practicality in a boat intended to be ridden hard. Others may disagree, and prefer the charm that comes with old style systems, but for me, they're not as charming in the fuel manifold and places of that nature.

Tinman

12-08-2008, 09:27 AM

Lew. You make some valid points. I guess the point I was making, was that having a drop pocket built in to even a modernized system makes a lot of sense to me. The bottom line is that the boat is meant for using, not fixing. So what ever can be reasonably done to make floating along at a liesurely pace with good cuban cigar in one hand and a small galss of Grand merinier in the other, is a good thing. After all, that is what boating is supposed to be about in my humble opinion.

panmanb

12-11-2008, 09:41 AM

hey guys , Im new to the forum but Im glad I found ya . guess what ................... Ive got a taylor too. You cant believe how happy I am to find another . I was told it was one of a kind . but I guess its about one of 3 or four lol . ive got pics but they are not good cause its on drydock and other boats near it . but I will try to post them . Ive got a question if anyone would like to try to answer it . Are there any documents about different models cause mine seems to be some sort of a convertable or someone took off the top which I would like to put back on . ck out the pics and lets talk , thanks doug in ct .

Captain Blight

12-11-2008, 09:46 AM

panmanb

12-11-2008, 09:53 AM

trying to post pics b patient thanks , doug

Tinman

12-11-2008, 12:01 PM

panmanb

12-11-2008, 05:33 PM

thanks for the welcome the beam is 9.5 ft length is 30 ft exactly yr of manufacture is 1949 engine was ...... unfortunately unsalvagable but a chrysler crown 100 hp

panmanb

12-11-2008, 05:41 PM

so I inturn put in a merc 6 cyl 165 . oh it was just the single screw . So tinman you are not the newby anymore its me , panman and " novelty"

Tinman

12-11-2008, 09:29 PM

I don't mind surrendering the title in this case, I'm justs glad there is anotehr Taylor alive out there somewhere. I'm in Eastern Ontario btw. Where ya at Bye? [ a little newfie humour there ]

Tinman

12-11-2008, 09:31 PM

I have no documentation for my boat either.. :o(

Lew Barrett

12-11-2008, 10:02 PM

It was a great pleasure watching the launch movies, and I called my wife in because I knew she would enjoy the period stuff. The men all in ties, not to mention blazers and captain's hats, women in full dress, smoking cigarettes and saluting each other. DELIGHTFUL! And then there are the boats.

I often wonder what it must have been like to commission one, make the progress payments and finally, after all the decisions and discussions, waiting and anticipation, arrive with the family and a bottle of champagne to see her down the ways. The film even reminds us to bring a bottle with thin glass walls!

Thank you Cris. We loved it! (Jealous that we we don't have some movies of Rita sliding in although we do have a couple of stills.)

C. Ross

12-11-2008, 10:09 PM

panmanb
Welcome! This is the start of a nice little J.J. Taylor club - we might indeed have to start the marque club right here. Tell us more about your boat, where you keep her, etc. I am very eager to see pictures!

Lew
I've watched the footage of my boat and Nick (Tinman's) a bunch of times, but the most charming part is that 12 year old girl in pigtails, captain's hat and daddy's jacket trying to break the bottle! You can tell I have daughters?

Tinman

12-11-2008, 10:20 PM

Cris. I watched that several times. She takes 5 swipes at it and never manages to do the deed. Since it was my boat she was trying to christen, I'll let my 13 year old daughter try again when we re commission her. I have 5 daughters btw, and 3 boys. Surely one of them can break that bottle. :o)

panmanb

12-11-2008, 11:29 PM

omg that was the cutest thing I counted too . I called my wife in to watch and we both got a kick . I tried for a couple hrs to figure how to post pics here but I just cant figure it out im on yahoo360 and I have a yahoo email address that you can see pics of her . my email address is panmanb@yahoo.com come and visit me and give me your email and I will send pics there . I had a shipwright look her over and he told me to get her into the water he didnt see anything too bad and never saw a taylor b4 . He told me to ck out my shaft log and to remove one plank to see why it bulged out then refasten it . behind the plank is where the floor meets the hull and the cover was leaking for a couple yrs water used to sit there when it froze in winter.Then when it would thaw is when i think it did the dammage , and pushed the plank out a bit .now that ive stopped the rain water from comming into the boat It seems to have gone back into place but in spring im gonna remove it and ck it out . also a couple fasteners in the transome are steel or iron rather than bronze and I should replace them . " I would rather spend the rest of my life sanding scraping and painting every day all day on my boat then to go to work no matter what the job.

Lew Barrett

12-12-2008, 10:19 AM

Lew
I've watched the footage of my boat and Nick (Tinman's) a bunch of times, but the most charming part is that 12 year old girl in pigtails, captain's hat and daddy's jacket trying to break the bottle! You can tell I have daughters?

Imagine you had that way-back machine and could have been there! Even as she walks up to the cutwater you would be tempted to take bets on her willingness and ability to break the bottle. It is a priceless, classic scene. I equally enjoyed Mom breaking the bottle with elan, then, proper as she looked, trying to decide what to do with the detritus, finally returning because the idea of leaving a broken bottle there on the ground just wasn't right. It was a chuckle, and an insight into her dignity and beauty. A really sweet moment. I'm sure my mother would have reacted exactly the same way, launching a boat named after her.

Lew Barrett

12-12-2008, 10:24 AM

I would rather spend the rest of my life sanding scraping and painting every day all day on my boat then to go to work no matter what the job.

After almost 15 years of thinking like this, I can assure you that you will need your day job. Sorry for the splash of reality here!:D

C. Ross

12-12-2008, 05:20 PM

Next! panmanb's lovely 30' 1949 J.J. Taylor

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3127/3102850549_58ea78f61d_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3074/3103680064_2154b64f33_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3152/3103680088_bb574bd535_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/3103680126_53da8a993f_o.jpg

C. Ross

12-12-2008, 05:23 PM

And a few more shots of panmanb's boat

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3103/3103680186_c84947b1da_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3053/3103680198_728e10ea19_o.jpg

She looks to be in pretty good structural shape. Refinishing the exterior brightwork, and maybe a little attention to the foredeck port side, and she'll be a showstopper!

C. Ross

12-12-2008, 08:38 PM

More video...looking for the boat names at launch, googling a bit, and finding great stuff.

J.J. Taylor & Sons also built sailboats. Here is launch of Buzzy III, a 6 Meter Sparkman & Stephens design, from 1956.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md-Ggo7DIf4

Bright salmon hull and white antifouling. Won many races, now in Seattle.

At launch:

http://www.6mrnorthamerica.com/Images/LAUNCH1.JPG

Repairs at Jespersons in Sidney BC, about 2000, to return her to original configuration.

http://www.6mrnorthamerica.com/Images/BUZZ6.JPG

Relaunched

http://www.6mrnorthamerica.com/Images/WATER.JPG

Her story is here: http://www.6mrnorthamerica.com/buzzy3.html

Rob Stokes, N. Vancouver

12-12-2008, 11:11 PM

Jesperson's in Seattle? Or Jesperson's in Sidney BC?

I know Bent had a shop in Sidney, in behind McKinnon Marine and I'm 99.9999% sure that's it . And I recognize those ways as being McKinnon's ways (I used to make $$ down there scrubbing boats and later, using a tow truck to re and re marine engines).

The ways are now owned by Van Isle Marina and I don't believe they're used anymore.

C. Ross

12-12-2008, 11:18 PM

You're quite right Rob. Brent Jesperson Boat Builders in Sidney is the citation in the article. The boat's owner is/was in Seattle, so my bad.

Tinman

12-13-2008, 12:13 AM

Panman's boat is in better shape than mine is. It is gorgeous. What is it about Taylors that make them so appealing? I'm not into sail boats at all, but that one you posted Cris is simply drop dead gorgeous.

panmanb

12-14-2008, 09:49 AM

First thanks C. Ross for posting pics of my boat and next for the encouraging remarks . I drove past this boat in the marina for 3 yrs before I enquired about it to find that it had been sitting unattended for 5. luckily the big blue tarp had lasted long enough to keep her relatively dry and protected . Due to the fact that it has no top I realy could use some instruction on building one if there are any plans or books on this subject . ive been told that she had one but alas no pics d@-m.

panmanb

12-14-2008, 09:54 AM

in the first pic of my boat does anyone know just what hardware belongs at the bow . If so would you please take close up pics for me to see . thanks doug

C. Ross

12-14-2008, 01:11 PM

Doug
From the pictures, it looks like there is a bit of old canvas and snaps right at the top of the windscreen, and there are little chromed fittings along the windscreen sides. It might have had some kind of convertible top, either originally or added later.

Here are three boats on the Taylor films that you might look at

One is of Smoothy, which looks a little like your boat, and if you play the video all the way to the end you'll see a convertible canvas top that might be a model. If I were you, this might be the design I'd imitate. Cheapest, most flexible, and fits with the style of your boat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo-lOqXYtYs

The second is in the RCMP patrol boat clip I posted earlier. Not the boats you see at first, but the fast patrol boats at the end with canvas tops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyyzwUqlruE&feature=channel_page

The third is Mardon V, which has a hardtop and was probably built a couple of years after yours. Still, a nice look if you want a hardtop. Plus, it's fun to watch him try out spinning the boat on his twin engines!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67TkT3pafJY

If you want a canvas top, should be easy for any marine canvas guy to build something suitable. I don't have great ideas for plans for a hardtop.

I recall a thread here where someone replaced a cabintop, I seem to recall on an Elco. It had lots of nice construction details. Can anyone else remember? If not, if you search the forum with keywords like "cabin top" you get lots of interesting threads. Many of them are sailboat cabins, but the general idea about design and construction are the same.

Bow hardware? This is mine, and many of the launch films have exactly this fixture. It's a single unit bowlight and chocks. The picture from the rear is pretty bad, but it gives you an idea of the teardrop shape. You can find similar fittings on ebay.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3279/3108211886_54acb34c4a_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3233/3107395831_9578c184e2_o.jpg

panmanb

12-14-2008, 09:26 PM

wow thanks a lot thats almost what I thought was there but didnt know the bow light was integral or clear . thanks again . love the movies . I know now what goes on the bow too a horn I dont have and a mast . Owner b 4 me says he has hardware but Im not holding my breath .

panmanb

12-14-2008, 09:32 PM

Oh I almost forgot , the snaps that u see are part of a mooring cover that was on it .They go all the way around the boat .

panmanb

12-14-2008, 09:46 PM

still tryin to post all pics Ill get it .

Tinman

12-14-2008, 10:29 PM

We still don't know where this boat is, ... ??

Lew Barrett

12-14-2008, 11:49 PM

It's a surprise, but a great one, to see the Jespersens mentioned in connection with this thread.

More commentary on the Jespersens; Bent and Janni bring their conversion San Mateo to Victoria every year, where Bent is one of the judges. If there are better people in the wooden boat world, I don't know who they might be. Every year after the awards dinner, we are privileged to sit with the Jespersens on their boat or ours and discuss the year just passed. It's become a tradition and a highlight of our attendance at Victoria. Jannie has shared her memories of war time Holland with us, and she is an absolutely amazing woman. Bent is a tremendous resource for anybody with a need to fix a wooden boat, and despite the traditional approach to craftsmanship the Jespersen yard is known for, Bent is completely up to speed on all modern technologies and applications.

Bent has been retired for a few years and his son, Eric, now runs the yard. I have never met Eric, but he is a frequent "member" (is that what you call an Olympian?) of Canada's Olympic sailing team, and has won Olympic medals as well. As a bonus this summer, we heard all sorts of interesting reports about the sailing in China this year from Bent.

Anyone attending Victoria next year should look Bent and Jannie up, and if we're there, and you're there on Sunday night together, should join us for a remarkable evening of conversation and tall tale telling.

There is a distinct groupie pleasure to be had when rubbing shoulders and elbows with the luminaries of our little world, and I'd be the last person to deny myself of them on the rare occasion I might have to enjoy the opportunity. I say if you're gonna be a groupie, you might as well start at the top. And in my mind, that's where the Jespersens reside. Just great people. A boat turned out by their yard will be one to cherish. Thanks for the links, Cris. By the by, Eric has his own 6 meter boat, or did a year or two ago when he displayed it at the show. I'll root around for the pictures I took of it.

C. Ross

12-15-2008, 12:30 AM

Great stories Lew!

BTW, Buzzy III, the 6 meter built by J.J. Taylor and restored by Jespersen is for sale. http://uk.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=1998417&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public

dreyer

12-15-2008, 02:32 PM

Criss.

I wonder if you would like to see some footage of your boat the "Pixie k" being launched back in '48? I have received two cd's with the launch of both yours and mine going through sea trials in Toronto harbour side by side. They are right out of the show room, and look fantastic at speed. Let me know if you would like a copy, and I'll burn a set of dvd's for you. It's been amazing watching, a thrill for sure.

This is just brilliant :D

"I found the thing you have dreamt about every night for the last 10 years. Found it in the back of my garage. I will drop off next time im in your neighbour hood."

Chris must have fallen out of his chair reading that.

I know how excited I have got hearing from each person who has helped piece together the history of my boat.

Two weeks ago I recieved an unexpected email from a previous owner telling me it was built for Ray Milland the hollywood actor and oscar winner. Talk about surprised!

panmanb

12-15-2008, 06:06 PM

tinman my boat is in connecticut usa brewers ferry point marina old saybrook ct . her name is novelty . built as a wedding gift . had a top on it but now is convertable . any info would be appreciated . pics posted in previous thread. U can email me at panmanb@yahoo.com thanks doug . pics were p[osted by chrisross

Tinman

12-16-2008, 11:29 PM

It seems I am teh geographical middle man here. Cris is in Minnisota, and I am in Eastern Ontario not far from the Ottawa river. Do you have a hull number? mine is 190026 and cris's boat is 190030. It would be interesting to see how close they are from that regard.

Tinman

12-16-2008, 11:31 PM

This is just brilliant :D

"I found the thing you have dreamt about every night for the last 10 years. Found it in the back of my garage. I will drop off next time im in your neighbour hood."

Chris must have fallen out of his chair reading that.

I know how excited I have got hearing from each person who has helped piece together the history of my boat.

Two weeks ago I recieved an unexpected email from a previous owner telling me it was built for Ray Milland the hollywood actor and oscar winner. Talk about surprised!

Nothing like having a common interest and being able to help out like that. It's surprises like the ones we are discussing that make owning something like these old boats so rewarding.

panmanb

12-17-2008, 12:55 PM

no hull number or any markings at all darn . but im trying to get a hold of the previous owner cause he may have taken the placq off that is above the stairs to the cabin . The one that is currently there is unmarked . "Double darn .

C. Ross

12-17-2008, 05:53 PM

Chris must have fallen out of his chair reading that.

Oh yeah. My wife is dismayed because no Christmas present will match the DVDs I got from Nick (Tinman) -- known in our household as St. Nick. dreyer, post more about your boat, it sounds really interesting.

Doug - for hull number have you looked in the engine compartment for a number carved into one of the deck beams?

Tinman

12-17-2008, 09:01 PM

Trust me Cris. I am a very long way from sainthood, but thanks anyway. :o)

Doug it should be on the after cross member somewhere. litteraly hand carved into the wood.

panmanb

12-19-2008, 10:26 AM

next time im down there I will she is wrapped for the winter but I have access to her . thanks

panmanb

12-19-2008, 03:29 PM

While im here , does anyone have the proper bow light and integral rope chocks for my boat for sale ? cant find on ebay . thanks doug panmanb@yahoo.com email me for phone .

dreyer

12-20-2008, 06:48 AM

dreyer, post more about your boat, it sounds really interesting.

My boat.... is too far away! And a sailboat which may not be so interesting to you :) I have been in Europe since last february & she is in San Diego. The team at Traditional Boat Works is slowly chipping away on her planking as my budget allows. I replaced frames and floors while I was there and look forward to having 3 weeks working on her in January when I take leave from work. Its going to be a long road to having her sailing but I get so much pleasure from the restoration & finding out about her history that its no problem.

"Therapy" (ex Witch, Aquarius Too) is a Phil Rhodes One design racer known as a Rhodes 33. Designed in 1938 & very similar to an IOD. 33'8" x 6'10" x 4'5". Narrow and low with a fractional sloop rig. She is built in 1946 (number 34 of 46) and has had a hard life racing in southern California. There are two I know of that are sailing and 3 in restoration.

I rescued her from in front of the sawzall and well and truly manifested my love of sleek & racy wooden boats.

I will post some pics on arrival in San Diego. :)

Tinman

01-20-2009, 10:51 PM

I found a few more pictures of the Laura Anne after we got her home and blocked up. Thought I would take a break fromthe cut, parry and thrust of the bilge and post a few of them here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34513868@N04/3207998863/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34513868@N04/3213948167/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34513868@N04/3214795936/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34513868@N04/3214796054/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34513868@N04/3213948501/in/photostream/

C. Ross

01-20-2009, 11:10 PM

You gotta come up for air, man.

She is lovely! But she deserves some right proper boat stands, for safety's sake if nothing else. Here's an old thread with various ideas http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5978

Tinman

01-20-2009, 11:19 PM

Gasp!!! I think you are right, but believe me when I tell you she is much more secure than she appears. { My lovely wife saw to that } But it is good advice and will be acted upon.

Do ou remember the 8mm footage of the fairmile doing workups in the great lakes? They are rebuilding one in Sarnia to it's World war to configuration. It is the last one in the world that can be restored like this. There are only two others and the are not suitable for conversion. There is a website that shows a little bit of detail about what kind of shape she is in now, and what has been done so far, but there is a long way to go yet. Now of course, I am in there like a dirty shirt, trying to organize a big ticket black tie affair at the national war museum here in Ottawa to help raise money for the re build. If you want too, you can have a look at

http://www.fairmileq105.org/

It is a worthy project and I am going to do what I can to help get it ready for the Canadian Navy centennial in May of 2010.

C. Ross

01-20-2009, 11:30 PM

Interesting site and a very worthy project. Well done!

I'll post the Fairmile construction and sea trials part of the film sometime over the next couple of days. (The depth charge and 20 mm cannon test on Lake Ontario is pretty amazing, as you wrote before ....)

BTW, you can probably buy some used jack stands from a local boatyard in the spring, after launching season. You might have to repair a pad or something, but they'd be cheaper that way.

Tinman

01-21-2009, 09:55 AM

Good idea Chris, I have a few in mind that may be "persuaded" to trade a little white cedar for some jack stands.

Eric D

01-21-2009, 03:02 PM

Simply loving this give and take...

can't wait to see more of all of them as they are restored.

Congrats too all.

Nick, I do have a sneaky suspicion however, that based on almost EVERYONE'S experience with these restores...that little bit of water can turn into a huge mess, go slow and don't be afraid to really pull some boards off to make sure now before you go through the expense to "detail" it out. Those chine logs would make me a bit leary per your description.

One more tidbit, Cris mentioned some very sound advice on wire types and sizes, just be sure to use strand, not solid, tinned is worth the extra expense too. Nigel's book was wonderful. Dense is a word I would use to describe it too, but once you mull it 6-7 times you understand what he is saying. Sounds like your professional background will help too.

MORE PICS!!!! thanks....

Tinman

01-21-2009, 03:23 PM

Eric. Excellent advice. I would rather delay her recommissioning and do it right, than to rush it and regret it. I am expecting to have to gut the foc'sle and even lift the decking forward the wheel house to make sure it is well and truly watertight. I know boats are designed to get wet but,....

Once I get rolling in the springtime, I will likely be doing alot of pestering and asking questions. there is no doubt in my mind that on this topic, I am an unranked amature.

lofting4fun

01-22-2009, 08:13 PM

Hi guys, you will need to size your wiring for the overcurrent protection and circuits for load served,dont load your circuits to more then 80%.I wired in a small panel for my schooner and utilized the arc fault ( not GFCI) circuit breakers for my 120vac...Also VERY INPORTANT,for your DC taps from the battery use a overcurrent device,AT THE BATTERY,they are readilly available,remember that the wire from the battery must be proteted,a line to ground fault will call all the batteries amperage to be released in 1/120th of a second just like a capacitor that has been shunted...that wire will glow white hot .........I also use "smurf tubing" as a chase ,it is listed and rated ( ANSI & UL ) for line voltage,flexible,and ridged enough for you to not to damage the conductors from vibration,pinching ect..leave a pull string in it for future pulls,AND remember to derate your wirings ampherage rating for the number of current carring conductors in a chase over 24" ( heat causes your wires to be less conductive ) If you have any electrical questions shoot them this way......James

Tinman

01-22-2009, 09:10 PM

James, based on your post, and how much of it I understood, you can bet I will be shooting you ALOT of questions when the time comes.

panmanb

01-29-2009, 12:29 AM

are u gonna keep the same name Laura Anne

Eric D

01-29-2009, 04:46 PM

I was thinking the same thing Tinman...wow James, that was a keyboard full...

thanks.

Tinman

01-29-2009, 06:58 PM

are u gonna keep the same name Laura Anne

Yes. The boat is named after my late sister who was killed in an auto accident along with her 11 year old son. She was 32. So I can't think of a better way to commemorate her. Rebuild a classy lady, to remember a classy lady. Works for me.

Tinman

02-03-2009, 08:20 PM

I found this Taylor and thought you might like like a look.

http://www.ladyben.com/SearchResultsFull.asp?VesselID=2765

C. Ross

02-03-2009, 09:40 PM

Sweet, Nick!
http://www.ladyben.com/boats/3332_2765_lg_01.jpg

Ad says "Misil V was the last and largest built by this famous canadian builder. Her sistership was lost in a fire making her one of a kind. She's in exceptional shape and has been well maintained by her present and past owners. An extensive restoration was completed in 2003/04 Originality has been well maintained."

So this is the last of J.J. Taylor's wood boats, but they converted to fiberglass and made Contessa 26's up through the 1980's. http://co26.com/about/

http://co26.com/images/63.gif

C. Ross

02-03-2009, 09:56 PM

Here's another J.J. Taylor for sale, in Minnesota.

Two years ago a well-known boat dealer around here, Todd Warner, came aboard my boat and said he'd be the only guy I'd ever meet who also owned a J.J. Taylor boat. (Well, he was wrong about that, anyway.)

Two weeks ago at Upper Mississippi EBS Andreas told me this boat was for sale.

A police launch, built in 1951. http://www.mahoganybay.net/boat/100155.aspx?filter=11 Nick, the videos you sent me has the launch of this boat or one identical to it! I'm travelling this week but will post matching video when I get home.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3029/3252462326_203950c5e8_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3121/3252462366_cb72535ddd_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3094/3252462400_9d9d07e4ae_o.jpg

Captain Blight

02-04-2009, 01:06 AM

Is that the one that we heard from... crud... Andreas' friend... Anyway, he said it sank at the dock? Could that be right?

C. Ross

02-04-2009, 06:27 AM

Brad. Yes, but I didn't hear any other details about when, where, etc.

"This all original classic needs a restoration but the hull is structurally sound."

1951 34' Canadian Builders Launch
Status: For Sale
Configuration: Launch
Country of Manufacture: Canada
Hull Material:
Method of Construction:
Engine: Chrysler
Price Range: $75,001 - $125,000

This is a vessel not a boat, weighing in at almost 4 tons. This 34’ piece of Canadian history has roots back to the early 20’s. The Toronto Harbour Patrol #6 was built by J.J. Taylor and Sons in Toronto in 1951. This is a boat of substance, in any weather she is in command. Powered by a 440 Chrysler V-8, 330 HP. There is an upholstered aft seat and room for benches and chairs in the cockpit. The forward cockpit has a V-splash rail. This was a work boat that originally carried a rescue dingy aft. The command of a vessel of this design is unique in it’s ride and presence. This all original classic needs a restoration but the hull is structurally sound. This is a unique opportunity to own a significant part of the Canadian boating heritage.

C. Ross

02-07-2009, 09:32 PM

Here's the Police Launch listed for sale just above, and film of its launch, or a boat identical to it. Looks like it's still in pretty original shape, though the navigation lights could be replaced in the original position.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3029/3252462326_203950c5e8_o.jpg

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/Phnhncb-qyc/default.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phnhncb-qyc

C. Ross

02-07-2009, 10:04 PM

Next. Here's the Gold Cup hydroplane Tempo VI G-13, which was owned by bandleader Guy Lombardo at the time this film was taken. (At the end the boat is shown being loaded onto a truck with Guy Lombardo on the truck door.) The boat was not built at J.J. Taylor & Sons, but at Ventnor Boat Works in New Jersey.

The boat is being launched at J.J. Taylor, along with other hydroplanes, probably for a race event.

Film of Tempo VI being lowered into the water. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hklq1M3Uyv0

Two really nice web sites about her:

http://www.thunderboats.org/46tempo/index.html
http://thunderboats.smugmug.com/gallery/2110472_agXw71/109067271_sxPMF#109067271_sxPMF

http://www.thunderboats.org/46tempo/images/tempovi.jpg

And a really cool website by a guy who built a flawless, perfectly detailed radio-controlled replica. Wow.
http://www.vintagehydroplanes.com/rctempo.html

http://www.vintagehydroplanes.com/tempo_done2.jpg

Tinman

02-07-2009, 10:18 PM

is that a rolls royce powerplant in there?

C. Ross

02-07-2009, 10:24 PM

Nick, web site says a 16 cylinder Miller engine generating 650 hp.

Tinman

02-07-2009, 10:36 PM

ya i should have checked out the website before asking the question, but that strikes me as a little low on the power side for a big v 16 like that. It would be fun to drop a RR merlin in at about 2,000 hp and watch her fly.

pila

02-08-2009, 12:51 AM

One of my friend's dad, Les Staudacher, built some boats for Guy. One of them is in the Guy Lombardo museum in Ontario. Don't know which one it's called.

Tinman

03-15-2009, 09:45 PM

FINALLY! A nice enough day to get out and start poking around in the boat. I got a look at the hatch on the bow, and managed to remove the combing without too much trouble. The leak in this area that I am worried about seems to be coming from the fwd stbd corner of the hatch. The wood is pretty well rotted there so the hatch assembly itself will need to be replaced. Underneath and behind the combing, you can still see the original canvas from '48. Now that I have had a good look, the forward bulkhead the encloses the head, will have to be totally replaced as well as about half a dozen overhead supports for the deck above. I also pulled the distributer caps today, and removed the points and condenser. It took me about ten minutes of scratching my head to figure out what fly weights in the distributer could possibly be for. They are of course the timing advance system for the engine. I don't think I've ever actually seen a real live set like that. At any rate, it was a good day on the boat, and if the weather co operates, I will be out there again tomorrow.

Tinman

04-15-2009, 09:07 PM

Since the last post, I have been a busy little beaver. Everything forward of the steering position except the bulkhead it is attached to has been gutted. The only thing left is the kitchen sink, litterally. The head, bunks, lockers fridge compressor, all gone. The insides have been stripped to the keel. Alot of soft squishy wood but the hull and keel are solid, so that is good news.

Up on the pointy end, I've lifted about 60% of the teak decking, and have been very pleasently surprised at how solid that original plywood is. The dasher[?] that runs along the edge of the deck where the hull and deck meet was completely gone, but the underlying beams that hold the plywood up, are still sound. Except those that I have had to remove earlier. The black rubbery sealant used between the teak strips and as waterproofing is harder to remove than the actual screws that hold the wood in place is. I appreciate why it is, it just makes a difficult job to lift the wood without breaking it. I am hoping ot re use most of it to redo the focs'le with since for the most part it is in fine condition.

The further I get into this, the more impressed I am with the men who built it. They cut no corners even when they could have, and the condition of the boat even after all this time, is a testament to thier craftmanship, even if it makes my job so much harder now.

There have been a number of patch repair jobs involving bondo and non marine grade plywood, but these seem to be limited to areas of the house on the stbd side, so while it is frustrating to see, at least it isn't serious.

I have been thorooughly enjoying thhis project and have no regrets wahtever about taking this on. I only hope my skills improve quickly so when the deconstructions is over, and the reconstruction begins, I can do the job properly.

C. Ross

04-15-2009, 11:43 PM

Well alllll rightttt!! Great progress. Pictures?!

Very good news about the plywood underlayment. Deck beams in good shape?

Not sure whether you took measurements or templates of the stuff you took out. Any time you want a reference measure or photes of any kind, let me know?

Also, someone PMed me from Toronto - he knows something about Lady Alva (the sister ship to mine launched along with yours in the home movies) and apparently the boat is now called Irish Queen and may be kept in Hamilton Harbor. You might take a look at her if you get down that way. Hope the fella who PMed me will post, too.

Tinman

04-16-2009, 08:10 AM

Chris. I have tons of photos, and as soon as I can get either reliable high speed internet, oor get to where there is said service, I shall post them. The deck beams are overall in pretty good shape. At the moment I have two to replace for sure [ I have a feeling that job is going to be a real pain ] and likely one or two more. The stuff I took out in the bow, blkdhds closets and stuff is still around. I figured I would need them to serve as templates as you suggest. Much of it is in really bad shape though. I will very likely take you up on your kind offer as well. Even just to make sure taht what I am putting back in, looks right if you get my meaning. I am going to have to rebuild the windsheild housings sine what is there now, is a home made repair job with no allowances for either windshield wipers or ventialtion. So a few closeups of what yours look like would likely be a big help.

Great news about Lady Alva! I am going to be in Hamilton in the middle of June anyway, so it would be the perfect opportunity to try and track her down. I was also in Lindsay Ontario a few weeks ago, about 15 minutes from that 1950's RCMP boat you posted a picture of on this thread earlier. As far as I know, it is still for sale. I am going to stop in to the broker that has it and see if he is interested in working out some kind of deal. If I ever get this boat done, ....We just might have to start that Taylor club after all.

neal debonte

04-16-2009, 09:17 AM

I think Woodwind Yachts also has a Taylor RCMP boat for sale: needs quite a bit of resto, but came across is wandering the 'net.

Lew Barrett

04-16-2009, 09:40 AM

This is all very impressive indeed.

Working the police launch looks like it must have been terribly dreary and hard duty. Imagine having to drive around in a varnished speedboat all day serving the needs and whims of taxpayers on the river. A dreadful job with no redeeming benefits!

Tinman

04-16-2009, 07:44 PM

I think Woodwind Yachts also has a Taylor RCMP boat for sale: needs quite a bit of resto, but came across is wandering the 'net.

That is the same one I mentioned earlier being near Lindsay.

Ya I'd "hate" to have to spend the day in a police speed boat like that one making sure I am the thin blue line between the tax paying public and those nefarious rowboat operators that blast by way to fast and way too close. But I guess someone would have to chase them down.

C. Ross

05-01-2009, 10:31 PM

Nice find. So maybe 10 still afloat listed on this thread?

Wish there were more pictures...green isn't my taste, but I'd be interested to see more of tha cabin modifications.

I just came in from the garage where I was varnishing the aft deck handrails and door to the aft head. Splash day Tuesday!

How's your foredeck replacement going?

C. Ross

05-02-2009, 08:19 AM

Nothing keeps me more honest that thinking that someday someone is going to rip apart one of my repair jobs and curse my laziness or incompetence.

I'm really eager to see more pictures whenever you have a chance.

panmanb

05-04-2009, 07:29 PM

nice boat ,..... green isnt my color either, great find

Lew Barrett

05-04-2009, 08:31 PM

It's not customary to dis boats here, (not that the custom has ever stopped me) but I have to ask if the boat in the pic looks remotely like a post war build? To me, you guys got the good Taylors.

C. Ross

05-04-2009, 09:35 PM

It looks like the same hull mould as Nick's and mine, though the cabin has been modified substantialling and a flying bridge added:

http://www.ladyben.com/boats/3430_2838_lg_01.jpg

Here's a real post-war Taylor...1967. Very similar styling to the 1940's boats, though I can't say I'm a fan of flying bridges except on real fishing boats.

http://www.ladyben.com/boats/3332_2765_lg_01.jpg

pcford

05-04-2009, 09:40 PM

Nothing keeps me more honest that thinking that someday someone is going to rip apart one of my repair jobs and curse my laziness or incompetence.

You got it bud.

Most of the stuff we do in repair or restoration the owner will never see. The boatwright sets the standard for himself. I try to do the best as I know how. Others' lives may depend on it.

Lew Barrett

05-04-2009, 11:39 PM

Well, I agree with you Cris. I do like outside stations (especially on a nice day) when they are integrated as a part of the original concept or done up in a sensitive style. If you twisted my arm to put an outside station on that boat, it would have been behind a windshield with a matching rake at the aft end of the first cabin. I agree that the flying bridges usually look very dorky as add ons.

C. Ross

05-05-2009, 06:52 AM

I shouldn't be casting stones! Someone added a very modest outside helm to my boat with a pretty clever pushbutton connection to the autopilot. I just stand on the aft doghouse to dock or just enjoy a nice day.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2300/2044279423_2bbb46440b.jpg

Rita would look fine with a simple steering station in that position.

This is Nan, that really lovely 1941 Dawn shown at Mystic last summer. Don't know if the steering station is original or not, but I think it adds rather than subtracts from the look of the boat...about the same place you're talking about on Rita, yeah?

http://lh4.ggpht.com/__CUf1g3F52Q/SGjCFF_L6WI/AAAAAAAAAE4/dAjO0Lr2928/s640/IMG_0067.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/__CUf1g3F52Q/SGjCFFRB0SI/AAAAAAAAAFA/SG2LWlv4pjs/s640/IMG_0074.JPG

Lew Barrett

05-05-2009, 09:50 AM

The 46 foot Dawns almost all had two stations right from the factory. In any case, the several I've seen have them. I think we looked at that boat together, Cris. It's the kind of development that adds to the utility and beauty, and it's exactly where I'd put mine, if I were going to put mine somewhere! The docking station on your boat is very cool!

I'd have the same problem adding a wheel to my boat. I've noodled it for a few years and keep coming up with the same answer; later, maybe never! If I went to hydraulic steering, I could add a dodger. In the bad old days when she was 6 Volt she had a Wood Freeman with a dodger (and still has the gear on the wheel's shaft) but somebody yanked it all out when she was converted to 12 V. I did get the autopilot in a box when I bought the boat but it was too retro (read: iffy) to put back in, even for Rita. Docking stations and command bridges are very cool when done discreetly or with clean design intent as they are on your boat, or with that Dawn. I wouldn't mind it one bit if we had some way to control her underway from an outside station. In fact I have "station envy," but if I ever get around to it....seems unlikely.

ILikeRust

05-06-2009, 11:17 AM

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2128/2045070242_ee8446f8fb.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2210/2044278985_f89bfc9e03.jpg

I think I would kill for a boat like that.

I have looked at those pictures at least ten times and every time, they make my palms sweaty.

I mean, I probably would kill a man in cold blood if it meant I would get that boat.

Man, I'm such a heartless, materialistic bastard.

Is that so wrong?

C. Ross

05-06-2009, 04:51 PM

Is that so wrong?

Yes. I have called my lawyer, and a restraining order is forthcoming. :)

Hey, yesterday was launch day!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3664/3506763352_79524ce881.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3549/3506763336_700c415660.jpg

Lew Barrett

05-06-2009, 05:22 PM

She looks crisp!

C. Ross

05-06-2009, 09:05 PM

She looks crisp!

Thanks, but a little too crisp!

Too much time in the warm dry shed over the winter getting some work done. Spent all day on the trailer taking up, with both bilge pumps and a 110v pump going strong. Down to 3 gal/minute at daybreak today, almost a trickle end of day today.

ILikeRust

05-07-2009, 08:01 AM

Should I tell him where that 48 footer is? Or the 30 footer that is for sale? or the green hulled one? Nah..

Well I have bumped up "the search" a small notch. I've been browsing (and drooling over) a couple of "wooden boats for sale" sites.

My father, who owned a nice little 20' cuddy cabin cruiser in the early 1970's and then a very nice 37' Cheoy Lee trawler in the 1990's, thinks I'm nuts for wanting a wooden boat. Well, yeah I probably am.

Anyhow, I'm eyeballing this one http://classifieds.woodenboats4sale.com/?15020D0

...or something along those lines.

Looks like right now is a pretty good time to be in the market for a used boat - there sure are lots of them out there, and for what looks to me like decent pricing.

Lew Barrett

05-07-2009, 09:51 AM

Looks nice. A fine "mohogany" boat. The price is fine if the boat is as good as it looks and sounds in the ad.

ChaseKenyon

05-08-2009, 12:46 AM

Tinman said:

I am going to try and reactivate my fliker account so I can post some pics of what I am dealinng with.

I can suggest this for you:

download or have a friend with dsl do it and make a cd for you, but get Google's Picasa 3.

Between your pc and there web hosting site for Picasa WEb they are doing something special with file data transfer if I am not mistaken.

I up load and send pictures to sites and in emails as attachments all the time. So I feel I have a pretty good mental clock about the time it takes. When I up load fromPicasa on my pc to the picasa web site five pictures upload in about half the time it take to upload one jpg normally. jTHey also have and upload button to click on that preserves bandwidth. I havn't tried it yet as I have DSL.

The upload of ten pictures at 1600 took less time than for Firefox to Bring up the WBF on the screen.

Hope this might help your situation.

Cheers

Chase

ILikeRust

05-08-2009, 06:47 AM

I took a look at the code and the URL you're using isn't right. You've got http://http://www.flickr.com/photos/38168835@N05/3512444564/

That is not a link to the photo itself - that's a link to the flickr page for your photo album. To get the URL for the photo itself, right click on the photo and select "properties".

That will show you the URL for the actual photo, which you can then highlight, copy and paste into the "insert image" window here, will then give you this:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3414/3512444564_fa66a8223b.jpg?v=0

And this

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3320/3512444568_f457318493.jpg?v=0

And this:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3348/3512444560_85767f04da.jpg?v=0

C. Ross

05-08-2009, 11:28 PM

Now we're talking!
Nick, that's a nice clean interior and disassembly job. I'm glad the daughter on horseback picture sneaked in, too.

watson1990

05-09-2009, 03:17 AM

I don't want to be a nit picker....but in post #83 you mentioned hull speed.
Perhaps it is different for power boats but sailboats use this to establish hull speed:
square root of the lwl [length at waterline] x 1.34
other than that i am jealous as hell .Please keep the photos coming !!! you have some beautiful boats there for sure !
thanks
W

C. Ross

05-10-2009, 07:20 AM

You're calculating it right.

A displacement boat is efficient up to its hull speed. It can go faster than hull speed but it requires disproportionately more energy.

Lady Cliff gets to 9 knots very efficiently at 1200 rpm, but 2200 rpm only gets her to 12-13 knots. Our hulls are hard-chined enough that they might plane (the launch pictures above show that pretty nicely, actually). I've never pushed hard enough to test it, nor do I particularly have the desire to drink fuel that fast!

RCMP boat SLIDEOUT

06-08-2012, 01:55 AM

Hi, I Hope you guys are still around. You just picked up a new follower. I have a JJ Taylor as well. She is a X RCMP boat, built in the same yard as yours in 1966. She had twin gas pods, but now resides happily with a single 6 cyl perkins. She is a beauty. I have had her for 4 years, out here on Vancouver Island, and just recently "bumped " into her sister ship the Battleford, who also served the RCMP on the great lakes with her sexy sister SLIDEOUT. I have a little bit of info on the boat from the RCMP archives, but none from JJ Taylor, would you know how to get some information on the history of the vessel. The you tube video you posted of the 50 foot rcmp boats sure was neat. Thanks for that, hope to hear back from you.
My email address is James_Dumont@hotmail.com

thank you

Jimmy