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Lech Komendant
09-01-2008, 05:42 AM
Hello,
It's a couple of months (6?) since I started building peapod 84 from Cahapelle's ASSC. Here you have fotodiary of the process.

http://elkomendasz.blogspot.com/

Unfortunately all commentary are in polish, but I hope you can find everything in pictures. It's my first boatbuilding project, and sometimes I think it was suicide, I should have chosen something less difficult. And I know that the worst, the planking is still befor me. But with all the time put into this work I have to finish this boat as well as I could.
In coming weeks I going to fair the rabbet and start the larch planking.
I hope it will sail, I hope it will float;)

regards fellows boatbuilders.

Lech

Thad
09-01-2008, 05:56 AM
Washington County Sailing Peapod. Looking Great and will be lots of fun. Looks like fun now!

rbgarr
09-01-2008, 06:46 AM
My favorite peapod design. You'll be pleased with how well she sails.

Mrleft8
09-01-2008, 07:13 AM
Looks great! I'm curious why you're building "right side up"... It's been my experience that most small boats like this (and the Cat'spaw dinghy that I built) are built upside down.

Thad
09-01-2008, 07:54 AM
Easy enough to build this right side up. Herreshoff used the upside down method which with lots of molds controlled the shape, but complicated the riveting procedure. Clinker building a hull like this with few molds it is easy to rivet the laps as you lay her up. Building carvel there aren't many bottom planks calling for low work and when she's planked up you can roll her from side to side for fairing. Why not? 'Twas always so.

Lech Komendant
09-16-2008, 02:41 PM
Hello everybody.
I've been silent for a while. Nothing new appeared on my blog, but there was a lot w work done. That was fairing of molds and rabbet. It was hard work. I decided to go upright do to convincing arguments in Leathers “clinker boatbuilding”. I’m sure he is right about some things, but I know disadvantages too now. The rabbet in the middle of the boat was cut too deep, so I had to glue pieces of oak and fair the whole thing. Then there was fairing of the rabbet for garboard on the stem and stern. And it was pain, pain to my back and shoulders – lying on the floor with hands up. Now it is done. I hope to spile and install garboards on coming week weekend. That will be my first planks fitted:)
Now I have a question to you boatbuilders. A autumn approaches, temperatures felled to 50F (we still have a summer here!). My shop isn’t closed so I will have temperatures between 40 and 50 F in coming weeks. I thing that there will be no problems with steaming planks, but


Do you believe that I could glue with SP 106 (gurit epoxy) with slow hardener successfully in this temperatures. I could postcure scarfs on planks with 250W infrared bulb. Maybe Urea glue is the answer? Some people glue scarfs with it, other disregard Urea on plank scarfs...
Do you have experiences with frames bending in cold temperatures 40-50F? I hope to finish planking before the November. And bend timbers before the winter comes. Then I could treat the whole boat with linseed oil so it will dry before spring. In winter I will have time for a mast, sails, cleats and the like. I have very good bending oak, but still it’s a question if bending below 50F could be successful.


I hope to show you effects of my work on garboard soon.

regards!

Thad
09-16-2008, 05:18 PM
Sounds good to me! No problem with the steam bending except slightly less working time. I don't know about the glue, either one. Why not butt blocks or short scarfs and butt blocks? Great boat.

Yeadon
09-16-2008, 05:21 PM
I built a peapod a while back.

My only planking advice ... scarf the garboards. Getting both hood ends into their respective rabbets with a single plank is nearly impossible. Doing a plank in two pieces is much more achievable.

Tom Hunter
09-17-2008, 08:17 AM
Lech,

"I have to finish this boat as well as I could"

We all finish our boats as well as we can. I like epoxy at cooler (not cold) temperature, gives me more time to figure out how to get the peices together after I do it wrong the first time.

Lech Komendant
11-06-2008, 05:09 PM
Hi
I wish I could say "I've finished!", but I can't. I'm not making steps, I crawl;) First garboard failed (cupped after curing epoxied knot with a bulb, then cracked at gain while steaming). Then, to my amazement second try was quite satisfactory, next garboard also. Now for a second week I'm trying to spile a next plank and it's a disaster. Time after time. I've wasted two very nice planks, and still don't know why hood end always go down. I've tried several plywood battens thinner, thicker, in two length, in three length... There is a great twist at the ends, and I know that's the source of the problem. But still don't know how to spile these planks. I don’t like neither to waste more wood, nor to make a pattern for next 6 or 8 twisted planks. Any ideas?

Thorne
11-06-2008, 05:40 PM
Can't help you with the spiling, but some folks here say the best way to cure epoxy in a cold shop is to use an old sacrificial electric blanket -- that might give much better heat than a light bulb.

Yeadon
11-06-2008, 05:42 PM
For the first foot or two of your hood end on each plank, do an exact template ... then spile the rest of the plank to get a nice fair curve. (At least do a template a few inches past the gain.)

Are you doing your planks as one piece, or scarfing them together from two? When there is a great deal of twist at the hood end, especially down near the garboard, it's easy to get the first end in, and nearly impossible to get the second end in. This pronounced twist will let up around the bilge.

When I built my peapod, it took me five tries to get the first two planks on. Those were expensive mistakes, or so they seemed at the time.

You'll get there.

Thad
11-06-2008, 05:52 PM
If building lapstrake use the same material as your planking (maybe one of your failed pieces), plane just thin enough to make the bend/twist or steam bend some twist into the spiling plank, clamp the spiling plank along the upper edge of the existing plank, run a pencil along the edge of the plank drawing the line to spile, laying the spiling on the plank stock drive nails through along the line to mark the new plank, clamp a batten of lap width outside the marks and draw the plank line outside the batten, space the upper plank line as you wish/calculate, batten, draw and cut out the plank -- making a matching plank for the other side, nice if you can resaw out of one board. The biggest problem whether you are doing as I describe or setting the spiling batten above the plank and marking offsets as is typical of carvel planking, is ensuring that the set/angle/twist on the spiling is identical to the attitude that the finished plank will have in place.

Yeadon
11-06-2008, 06:05 PM
Planing down mistakes is an interesting idea ... though I'd keep ahold of them as is for possible use as floorboards.

I used home depot doorskin for my templates. But Thad's idea is pretty good, too.

Lech Komendant
11-08-2008, 01:53 PM
Hello
Thank you for advices. I used Thad's method for second approach to this broad, but without success. I think that board was too thick, so I edge set it struggling with clamps. These planks really have lot of shape at each end. Finally I made 3' templates for hood ends and it worked fine. My first broad fits quite well and I hope I won't spoil it cutting gains. It fits to the port side too;) I wish I can post some photos of successful riveting soon.

Thad
11-08-2008, 02:06 PM
Planking with softwoods (cedar especially) I've wrapped the plank end in toweling and poured boiling water on the towel, leaving it there for a few minutes before bending the twist into the board. That way the plank is in place and the struggle is not so great.

Yeadon
11-08-2008, 02:06 PM
But first ... let's see some photos of the planking process!

Lech Komendant
04-06-2009, 09:46 AM
Hi,
In spite of cold weather I managed to plank up to no. 6. It's a plank at the turn of the bilge. As I had fastened no. 6 I have noticed alarming phenomenon. Planks are coming off the molds. In some places it's 1/8'' at other 1/4'. I've tried to find some remedy, and nailed planks to the molds, but it seems that as I nail in one place the gap in the other increases. Something is wrong. There could be three causes: 1) I didn't let the planks stand freely at the ends when I riveted them, so they bulged. 2) The cant was wrong, planks went to low spreading sides instead of turning them up. 3) It's natural sagging of several pounds of planking.
Have you ever noticed something similar? What should I do now, remove&replace 4 planks (they are 1month of hard work)? or maybe hang plank number seven and try to even things with light nailing to the molds? Any other idea?

Regardless of the true cause, the main problem is that it destroys bevel's fit of the planking for as much as 1/32 in some places:(

Here you could find some photos of my work, but sadly I have no pictures of the problem I’ve just described.
http://elkomendasz.blogspot.com/

Yeadon
04-06-2009, 10:25 AM
Don't nail your planks to the molds. You want a nice, fair hull. You'll probably have to shim out a little bit on your molds where the gaps have occurred to help land the planks. Within a plank or two past the turn of the bilge, things should start to relax again a bit. I think your molds just need tweaking.

I had a similar thing happen when I planked up. I figure I got the bevels wrong at the stations closer to the stem. As long as you can get each side of the boat more or less equal, I think you'll be okay. I wouldn't start pulling off planks.

rbgarr
04-06-2009, 10:28 AM
I've helped with one and seen another of them built as you are doing. The planks have an astounding amount of shape and sweep to them because they carry so much fullness into the ends, much more than you'd think to look at the boats. It's just a tough, tough job to find planking lumber that doesn't run out and show diagonal grain (which splits) at the ends where it twists most. Several planks split on us, some when fitting, others as they were being rivetted.

I hope others may have better ideas than I did at the time.


Hi
I wish I could say "I've finished!", but I can't. I'm not making steps, I crawl;) First garboard failed (cupped after curing epoxied knot with a bulb, then cracked at gain while steaming). Then, to my amazement second try was quite satisfactory, next garboard also. Now for a second week I'm trying to spile a next plank and it's a disaster. Time after time. I've wasted two very nice planks, and still don't know why hood end always go down. I've tried several plywood battens thinner, thicker, in two length, in three length... There is a great twist at the ends, and I know that's the source of the problem. But still don't know how to spile these planks. I don’t like neither to waste more wood, nor to make a pattern for next 6 or 8 twisted planks. Any ideas?

Eric Hvalsoe
04-06-2009, 02:13 PM
Yeadon pointed this thread out to me. You are coming along but having problems. The pictures are great, wish I could read the blog. First of all, the only argument for building a little boat like this right side up is for driving and peaning the planking rivits as you go. Everything else is 10 times harder. I suppose it is easier to 'see' the boat right side up, but you get used to looking 'upside down' when building the other way. When riviting upside down the thing is to just drive the rivits onto the roves, pean later with an assistant. It still sucks.

Sounds like you've got spiling problems. Right now you've got to stabilize the boat. Shim things out evenly port and starboard. You are designing a new boat. Maybe a slightly thinner shim next plank, and then thinner or no shim. Then you've got to spile without inducing edge set. I mostly use 1/4" ply for spiling material, with a shorter length of doorskin to twist into the stem. I rought cut the spiling stock so that it lays on the previous lap, but falls within the upper and lower marks of what you are spiling. I pick up all the marks with dividers. The spiling batten has to wrap naturally around the molds. No pulling ends up or down, that is called edgeset - only push in.

goodbasil
04-06-2009, 02:34 PM
Thank-you Lech for posting.

Eric Hvalsoe
04-06-2009, 02:50 PM
Just one other thing - did you really look at the fairness of your molds? There are subtleties of tension when you line off the molds with battens, and the battens need to be beautful, fair, straight grain stuff to begin with. I have been caught looking at how the battens are flowing and not noticing if they are really landing consistantly on the molds. It is an expensive lesson.l
If the molds are inconsistant, you are back to fairing and lining off as you plank up.

Lech Komendant
06-16-2009, 05:34 AM
Hello brothers boatbuilders ,
You were really helpfull. I stopped nailing planks to molds, and let them find their fair curves. Planks are off the molds no 6 and 8, but that's not a spiling problem. It's my inexperienced fairing / lofting. I tried rather to be with offsets then with my batten, now I have learned the lesson. Nonetheless, I got up to no 9! If I have luck the sheerstrake will be on the next Sunday:)!!! Meanwhile I have started looking to the next steps.
First of all, I've noticed two cracks on two of my lower planks (no. 2 &3 portside) - look at last post on my blog:
http://elkomendasz.blogspot.com/

It makes me a little upset. I don't know if I should take off all of my planks above (lots of sweat&blood), or find some way to repair them somehow. One of them looks rather easy to repair. It's a middle fastening, which I could remove and replace with two bronze nails above and below. For the second one I haven't found any solution yet. Do you have any clever ideas? There is a lot of boatbuilding books, but I do not have even one boatrepair text:( Removing all those planks would be the last resort:/

The second problem concerns plugging knots in my planking stock. there are some knots, which haven’t been plugged before installing planks. They are not very large, but they dried out and became loose. Greg Russell have written that in such situation you could ream the knot out , then put&glue the endgrain plug (a tapered dowel)
http://www.fine-tools.com/duebelherstellung.htm#zield850
The second idea would be a sort of round Dutchman cut with forstner bit and plugged with flatgrain plug. There is also very interesting but expensive tool for knot removing:
http://www.fine-tools.com/G312215.htm. Everything have to be done on the boat…

I hope I'll make some translation soon of my blog for you, I feel that It will be much more valuable for the BB community in English then it's now.

Kind regards to all of You

Bob Triggs
06-16-2009, 01:37 PM
Lech, This topic has been very helpful and entertaining. Thanks for sharing all of this. Some of the advice here has been great and I will note this as I want too build the same design one day.

PS: My grandma was Polish too...Nazdrovia!

peter radclyffe
06-16-2009, 01:56 PM
Hello everybody.
I've been silent for a while. Nothing new appeared on my blog, but there was a lot w work done. That was fairing of molds and rabbet. It was hard work. I decided to go upright do to convincing arguments in Leathers “clinker boatbuilding”. I’m sure he is right about some things, but I know disadvantages too now. The rabbet in the middle of the boat was cut too deep, so I had to glue pieces of oak and fair the whole thing. Then there was fairing of the rabbet for garboard on the stem and stern. And it was pain, pain to my back and shoulders – lying on the floor with hands up. Now it is done. I hope to spile and install garboards on coming week weekend. That will be my first planks fitted:)
Now I have a question to you boatbuilders. A autumn approaches, temperatures felled to 50F (we still have a summer here!). My shop isn’t closed so I will have temperatures between 40 and 50 F in coming weeks. I thing that there will be no problems with steaming planks, but


Do you believe that I could glue with SP 106 (gurit epoxy) with slow hardener successfully in this temperatures. I could postcure scarfs on planks with 250W infrared bulb. Maybe Urea glue is the answer? Some people glue scarfs with it, other disregard Urea on plank scarfs...
Do you have experiences with frames bending in cold temperatures 40-50F? I hope to finish planking before the November. And bend timbers before the winter comes. Then I could treat the whole boat with linseed oil so it will dry before spring. In winter I will have time for a mast, sails, cleats and the like. I have very good bending oak, but still it’s a question if bending below 50F could be successful.

I hope to show you effects of my work on garboard soon.

regards!
at zero degrees we put the 2 inch steamed frames in place in 3 to 10 minutes, else they break, people have used cold epoxy, but i dont like to use it cold, i dont think it mixes well, but we would have a heater in front of the containers, be careful it doesnt catch fire

peter radclyffe
06-16-2009, 02:10 PM
at zero degrees we put the 2 inch steamed frames in place in 3 to 10 minutes, else they break, people have used cold epoxy, but i dont like to use it cold, i dont think it mixes well, but we would have a heater in front of the containers, be careful it doesnt catch fire
i did this with a polish gang of joiners, from gdansk, who i taught to be shipwrights, maybe the best gang i ever worked with, my niece is part polish, ilka proszynska, do you know that surname, your boat is great

Lech Komendant
06-17-2009, 03:16 AM
i did this with a polish gang of joiners, from gdansk, who i taught to be shipwrights, maybe the best gang i ever worked with, my niece is part polish, ilka proszynska, do you know that surname, your boat is great

Nice to hear you like my boat:), by the way, can you find some remedy for cracks in her lower planks?

Proszynski is a name well known in Poland. Maybe there is a lot of families with name Proszynski (there are polish characters in the name in place of "o" and "n"), but one of them are owners and founders of large publishing house "Proszynski & S-ka". ;).

Did you work with these men you have mentioned in Poland or elsewere? There are very few profesional wooden boatbuilders on our coast:(

Oh, and once again, "Dziekuje = dziekuye = thank you";)

peter radclyffe
06-17-2009, 06:24 AM
Nice to hear you like my boat:), by the way, can you find some remedy for cracks in her lower planks?

Proszynski is a name well known in Poland. Maybe there is a lot of families with name Proszynski (there are polish characters in the name in place of "o" and "n"), but one of them are owners and founders of large publishing house "Proszynski & S-ka". ;).

Did you work with these men you have mentioned in Poland or elsewere? There are very few profesional wooden boatbuilders on our coast:(

Oh, and once again, "Dziekuje = dziekuye = thank you";)
a young guy called bart was working on the sailboat, mephisto in viareggio, and thru him these poles came to that town and helped to build , lulworth, and www.patience.it (http://www.patience.it) , my brothers name is kazimiersh proszynski, but i guess thats an every day name there, he is a boatbuilder in wales, and has an irish gloetcog

peter radclyffe
06-17-2009, 06:33 AM
Nice to hear you like my boat:), by the way, can you find some remedy for cracks in her lower planks?

Proszynski is a name well known in Poland. Maybe there is a lot of families with name Proszynski (there are polish characters in the name in place of "o" and "n"), but one of them are owners and founders of large publishing house "Proszynski & S-ka". ;).

Did you work with these men you have mentioned in Poland or elsewere? There are very few profesional wooden boatbuilders on our coast:(

Oh, and once again, "Dziekuje = dziekuye = thank you";)
the cracked planks, linseed oil, red lead putty, hand pushed lightly cotton, mastic, 2 part paints wont always hold over oil, when planks start cracking, you can oil them as they cool, and cramp them across the grain, back them with pads, mollycoddle them like any diva, pamper and truss them up, like a chicken, whats that in polish

Lech Komendant
06-24-2009, 01:56 AM
Hello Peter, Hello everybody.
I'm sorry I haven’t reply you last week :D I've been away for a while.
like a chicken = jak kurczaka (kurchaca) ;-).

I put the cracking problem aside, and took a chance in fitting sheerstrakes. I haven't finish them yet, but they are nigh:))) As always I had some spilling problems, which had to be corrected if I like to have nice sheer;0. I hope they will be done this week tadaaaam!
I hope next week I’ll finally have some time to write down my thoughts about planking this boat. I hope they will be helpfull to people who build lapstrake for a first time and without professional's instruction;)

Lech Komendant
07-24-2009, 01:02 PM
Hello in the heat of polish summer,
During last month I was finishing sheerstrake and preparing rib's steaming action. There is very little progress. When I gave my steaming apparatus a try everything seamed right. My wife was a helper outside, and we used Walter Simmons procedure i.e. clamping without nailing. These two trial pieces were almost ok. Maybe they lacked a little band at he bilge. I decided that we are ready for a full job. Next week I have prepared new stock (almost green, and almost straight grain) and decided to go other way and fasten ribs while hot. Unfortunately it turned out that my wife can't drive nails, so we had to take another route. With a help of shores and wedges we put two ribs and I fastened them with normal preboring. We tried several options, braking some ribs or underbending others, and I can't understand some points in this bendwork.
1. First of all, why bilge part is so stubborn and results in underbend, even if I overbend it strongly while hot. Is it possible that unfair sections at the bilge are causing this problem? What should I do, fasten these ribs with blocks between them and plank, or try to bend it properly? How?
2. As the bow and the stern are rather full, ribs approaching them should be severely twisted. I have tried twisting with hands and with some device (piece of oak with hole), but it gives the whole rib gradual twist, while I need an abrupt one around the bilge, then a slow one above it.

I think that the first problem could be solved by driving nails in the hot rib. Maybe the second one also, but I can't meke my wife a better nail driver in a short time. I hope you will have some clever ideas to help me...