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abbyj
08-30-2008, 09:27 AM
1.) Sarah Palin isn’t allowed to wield the gavel at the convention because they’re afraid she’ll use it to kill liberals.

2.) Sarah Palin once one a competitive eating contest by devouring three live caribou.

3.) Sarah Palin once carved a perfect likeness of the Mona Lisa in a block of ice using only her teeth.

4.) Sarah Palin will pry your Klondike bar from your cold dead fingers.

5.) Sarah Palin pick retroactively makes the theme of #DNC08 “Things To Do In Denver When You’re Dead”

6.) Sarah Palin doesn’t need a gun to hunt. She has been known to throw a bullet through an adult bull elk.

7.) Sarah Palin drives a Zamboni to work ( Actually, she walks (http://alaskapodshow.com/index.php/2008/02/20/my-visit-to-juneau-alaska/))

8.) Sarah Palin was kicked off Survivor for killing a man and eating his entrails.

9.) Sarah Palin is actually Kaiser Sose

10.) Sarah Palin can divide by zero

11.) Sarah Palin can read EBCDIC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBCDIC)

12.) Sarah Palin is the only woman who can make Tony Romo WIN a playoff.

13.) Sarah Palin would have just had an Eagle drop the Ring into Mount Doom.

14.) The Arctic Circle runs through Alaska so the Sun can have some relief from Sarah Palin’s bright glare

15.) Sarah Palin will send Biden a pre-debate cheat sheet. The sheet will have tips on defending against Kung Fu Death Grip.

16.) If placed into Schroedinger’s experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat), both Sarah Palins remain alive.

17.) Sarah Palin scares Chuck Norris.

18.) Sarah Palin poses more danger of creating world-destroying black holes than the Large Hadron Collidor

19.) Sarah Palin got Tom Brady pregnant, and then left him

20.) Sarah Palin will give birth to the man who will lead humanity’s war against the machines.

21.) Sarah Palin knows how old the Chinese gymnasts are.

22.) Sarah Palin wears glasses lest her uncontrollable optic blasts slaughter everyone.

23.) Sarah Palin’s son is going to Iraq after the Surge, because a Palin during the Surge would have been unfair.

24.) Sarah Palin is the “other” whom Yoda spoke about.

LeeG
08-30-2008, 09:43 AM
I'd be curious what birth control she used,,or why getting pregnant at 43 with four kids made sense.

abbyj
08-30-2008, 09:43 AM
25.) Sarah Palin holds the world record for swimming the Bering Strait. Covered in OIL

26.) When Sarah Palin says "jump", Jack Bauer asks "How high and when can I come down, Ma'am"

27.) Sarah Palin was not flown to Ohio in charter jet- she ran as part of morning workout

28.) Sarah Palin's husband finished 4th last year in a 2,000 mile snowmobile race...w/ a broken arm

29.) Sarah Palin does not believe in using a hyphen.

30.) Sarah Palin introduced the foxtrot to Papua New Guinea

31.) Sarah Palin accomplished in two years as Governor the kind of change that Obama talks about...but has never actually done

32.) Sarah Palin once bit the head off a live Osprey snatched from the air as it tried to fly off with a fish she caught

33.) We can rebuild Sarah Palin. We have the technology.

34.) Sarah Palin uses seal fat makeup

35.) Sarah Palin made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs.

36.) Sarah Palin made Pi = 3

37.) Sarah Palin hunts, ice fishes, eats mooseburger, rides snowmobiles, has run a marathon, and owns a float plane.

38.) Sarah Palin has often played Tina Fey's body double.

39.) Bill Belichick has been taping Sarah Palin for years.

40.) Sarah Palin can catch salmon swimming upstream with her teeth.

41.) Corrupt Republicans and Democrats?: The Sarah Palin Hawk eats them from Alaska's soil, and regurgitates them in the mouths of hungry children

abbyj
08-30-2008, 09:45 AM
I'd be curious what birth control she used,,or why getting pregnant at 43 with four kids made sense.

I'd be curious why of all people, you would think it's any of your G-Damn business!

johngsandusky
08-30-2008, 10:08 AM
Abbyj, that was funny, thanks. Don't mind the libs, they're scared of girls.

Osborne Russell
08-30-2008, 10:28 AM
kill liberals

And there you have it.

ljb5
08-30-2008, 11:11 AM
I thought it was funny too.

You're delusional, but that was funny. :)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It might be a little too early to declare her the next Messiah, but at least it's nice to know that there's at least one Republican who walks on water. :)

Rigadog
08-30-2008, 06:05 PM
If McCain were to drop dead tomorrow, what are the chances that she is the Rep. nominee?

Paul Girouard
08-30-2008, 06:22 PM
If McCain were to drop dead tomorrow, what are the chances that she is the Rep. nominee?


Same could be said of Joe "the mouth" Biden couldn't it?

Tylerdurden
08-30-2008, 06:31 PM
Abby should spot on this:

Palin's faked "pregnancy"? Covering for teen daughter? UPDATE #2!

by Inky99 (http://inky99.dailykos.com/)

Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 02:19:42 PM PDT

Okay, I just have to diary about this, although in many ways this falls into the "none of our business category".
But it appears that Pallin's last child, a baby with Down's syndrome, may not be hers. It may be that of her teenage daughter.
Here's a link just to get you started:
http://www.adn.com/... (http://www.adn.com/front/story/336402.html)



Inky99's diary (http://inky99.dailykos.com/) :: ::




JUNEAU -- Gov. Sarah Palin shocked and awed just about everybody around the Capitol on Wednesday when she announced she's expecting her fifth child.
The governor, who recently turned 44, told a handful of reporters as she was leaving work to expect a new member of the first family, then headed to a reception at the Baranof Hotel to feast on king crab.
Palin said she's already about seven months along, with the baby due to arrive in mid-May.
That the pregnancy is so advanced astonished all who heard the news. The governor, a runner who's always been trim, simply doesn't look pregnant.
Even close members of her staff said they only learned this week their boss was expecting.
Here's a photo of her supposedly six months pregnant:
http://www.adn.com/... (http://www.adn.com/politics/v-gallery/story/339576.html?/politics/v-enlarge/story/339576-a339575-t3.html)
Supposedly David Sirota reported it on the Thom Hartmann show (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3878605&mesg_id=3878721). Trying to find some sort of transcript for that.
UPDATE: I just asked David Sirota, in his own diary, whether there was anything to this. He says he never mentioned this to Thom Hartman. Knew nothing about it! Whoa!
Apparently her teenage daughter was out of school, unseen, for months, because she "had mono".
I'm not quite sure what to think of this. Seeing as how she opposes abortion even in cases of rape and incest maybe she's actually not a hypocrite.
Normally I'd say this is a totally private issue for them, but seeing as how she's quite willing to butt into the private lives of every other American woman, I think it's fair game.
http://openthread.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/29/17933/7330/417/579267

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-30-2008, 06:32 PM
Insufficiently known fact:

She was picked to appeal to al-Qaeda

brad9798
08-30-2008, 06:38 PM
"I'd be curious what birth control she used,,or why getting pregnant at 43 with four kids made sense."

Perhaps we need rules for this, eh, LeeG?

I think age and child limits is a slippery proposition, no?

I'll be 39 in a few weeks, and I would LOVE to have a couple more kids!!!

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-30-2008, 06:40 PM
..but you are aware of the correlation between the mother's age at conception and the incidence of Down's syndrome, aren't you?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-30-2008, 06:46 PM
Ask Bob Smalser to translate.

What I posted is literally true; there are plenty of very capable women in the Republican Party, but this one is the one that is best calculated to excite the faithful - not Elizabeth Dole, not Condoleeza Rice, but an inexperienced Governor of a fairly odd State. She presses all the hot buttons.

paul oman
08-30-2008, 07:04 PM
Yep, we are in trouble. As the first time gov of the largest (and probably richest) state in the country, she has barely the experience that Arkansas gov.Bill Clinton had when he ran for president. And look what happened to Bill. He is only the second president in history to be impeached, and while President he was disbarred from practicing law by his fellow lawyers. If she is as 'good' as Bill, we're in big trouble!

Nanoose
08-30-2008, 07:08 PM
clinton was impeached?

abbyj
08-30-2008, 07:08 PM
..but you are aware of the correlation between the mother's age at conception and the incidence of Down's syndrome, aren't you?

There absolutely is a correlation!. Maybe you were married and wifey had her first kid when she was 12 or 13. But welcome to the year 2008. Many women don't even start a family until they are in their late 30's early 40's. Some women start showing pre-menopausal symptoms in their early 40's and think all their eggs have dropped....Have you any idea how many women thought the factory stopped making widgets and so they stopped contraceptive measures? More than you can imagine!

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-30-2008, 07:13 PM
27, 34 and appropriate precautions after that because, whilst we strongly support the right of a woman to a termination, we would not want one ourselves (that's called liberalism, by the way);)

Getting pregnant at 42 if you avowedly oppose abortion is called reckless, and is close to feckless. :(

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-30-2008, 07:37 PM
That would depend on whether the mother recklessly decided, in view of the widely known statistics, to take the greatly increased risk of a Down's syndrome child that is associated with conception at a more advanced age, and on that mother's view of abortion.

A mentally handicapped child is not just for Christmas.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-30-2008, 08:13 PM
Thank you Donn; I don't personally remember Pennslyvania, but my paternal great - grandfather was the painter Isaac Eugene Craig, a descendant of William Craig, whose progeny practically populated Pennsylvania, and, should you choose to enquire, you will find Craig Street in Philadelphia.

Now I think you are missing my point; given that Governor Palin is expressly opposed to abortion, and given the known statistics, it was reckless of her to become pregnant.

Without going into my personal circumstances, I know quite a bit about mental handicap in siblings. "Providing resources" is not really enough, you know.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-30-2008, 08:28 PM
What cousin?

Do please tell me more - I look forward to learning all about it.

And you are still missing the point.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-30-2008, 08:43 PM
Thank you.

Whether or not someone who might very well become President of a nation that has already dragged mine into two pointless and dishonourable wars is reckless is very much my business.

Good night.

carioca1232001
08-30-2008, 09:03 PM
Well said, Andrew Craig-Bennett.

On another thread, the 'cultural values' that some US citizens attribute to presidential candidates, appears to be 'cash in till' :rolleyes:

jbelow
08-30-2008, 09:12 PM
Thank you.

Whether or not someone who might very well become President of a nation that has already dragged mine into two pointless and dishonourable wars is reckless is very much my business.

Good night.

ACB , Shouldn't you take up that political issue with your country ? Just because we share much the same blood line , we do not have to do the "monkey see - monkey do"

carioca1232001
08-30-2008, 09:15 PM
Great contribution from below !

abbyj
08-30-2008, 09:16 PM
ACB , Shouldn't you take up that political issue with your country ? Just because we share much the same blood line , we do not have to do the "monkey see - monkey do"

He hasn't said peep about the jaw dropping increase in 35+ mothers in his country.

Bob Smalser
08-30-2008, 09:25 PM
Be glad you weren't born with Down Syndrome, because if you were, 93% of you would be dead before you ever took a breath. And as the rate of DS births is relatively high overall..... 1 per 800...it should be obvious how many such people are missing from society.

Do Down Syndrome children have any rights to life at all? 80% of DS babies are born to women under 35. Is this a convenient way to practice eugenics? Is this something we should be proud of?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome

LeeG
08-30-2008, 09:34 PM
off the deep end

BrianW
08-30-2008, 09:57 PM
Holy cow, now we're judging people because they had a baby, and there was a possibility of Downs Syndrome?

Let me get this straight...

People who don't believe in abortion shouldn't have babies because they might find out through tests, that the unborn child is not perfect. They cannot abort the baby, and are guilty of bringing a malformed human into existence.

huisjen
08-30-2008, 10:04 PM
1. Sarah Palin has an Abramoff problem - a Pro-Palin illegal mailer was sent during her gubernatorial campaign on behalf of Palin by the RGA, the DC group that got money from Abramoff, Reed, etc.

2. She advocated AGAINST mine safety / pollution control

3. She has an ANTI-ENVIRONMENT RECORD and is on the wrong side of global warming and doesn't think polar bears should be listed as endangered because it interferes with her drilling plans.

4. She's against sex education - abstinence only.

5. She appears to oppose windfall taxes on oil companies at the national level but supported them to benefit her state and she wants to drill ANWR.

6. Believes Creationism should be taught in science classes

7. Don't believe the whispers that she supportive of the GLBT community. She's opposed to state health benefits for same-sex partners and only vetoed a resolution that would have ended state benefits because the Supreme Court had already declared it unconstitutional.

8. She's opposed to universal health care and stem cell research

9. No foreign policy experience? According to the folks at FOX think she has foreign policy experience because "Alaska is near Russia."

10. She doesn't know what the Vice President really does.

11. This choice is NOT helping McCain's polling numbers, especially with women.

12. McCain only met Sarah Palin ONCE and talked to her TWICE making this a purely cynical and desperate political appointment by HIS CAMPAIGN not by him! She's not really HIS VP choice.

13. She's deeply connected to the Bridge to Nowhere.

14. She stated that she would force her own daughter to have a rapist's child.

15. She has 3 houses

16. Terre pointed out that she's connected to VECO - the company at the heart of Ted Stevens' troubles. She also received an endorsement from Ted that has suddenly disappeared from her webpage.

17. She called candidate Clinton a whiner. Why does everyone in the McCain campaign think others are whiners?

18. She apparently hasn't taken a stand on most major political issues

19. Her selection has created a major rift among the Republicans, especially Romney & Pawlenty.

20. Past quotes by Rove make Palin's selection look like desperation.

21. Palin may have been scrubbing her own wikipedia page

22. Sarah Palin, Buchanite - Palin supported Pat Buchanan in 2000, a fact which may alienate certain Florida voters. Hat tip to misslotus

23. She was vetted too quickly and McCain only picked her the night before making the announcement.

24. She's still focused on Alaska not the fact the she would be Vice President for the whole nation.

25. She participated in a profane on-air attack againt the Alaskan State Senate President and giggled at the word b*tch..

26. Like Bush and McCain, she can't admit when she's wrong.

27. She's linked to the Dominionist movement and Joel's Army.

28. The United Steelworkers have already spoken out against her.

29. She was a bad mayor who left her town's economy in tatters.

30. She supported Obama's energy plan, but suddenly these references are disappearing.

31. Some of the PUMA's believe that John McCain is patronizing them.

32. Additionally, this choice eliminates the "He's not ready" attack on Obama.

33. This choice raises the issue of McCain's age (Is Palin ready to take over if he keels over).

34. It also raises the issue of McCain's past unfavorable statements against women.

35. Additionally, this choice reminds us that McCain is an adulterer and raises the spectre that he is just a dirty old man with wandering eyes.

36. Palin's husband is on BP's payroll creating a possible conflict of interest.

37. She made extremely poor use of Eminent Domain during her time as mayor.

38. She favors censoring library books (Alert your local librarian!)

39. Sen. Ted Stevens and Rep. Don Young (both under investigation) campaigned for her in 2006.

40. She didn't support McCain in the primaries.

41. The top 2 ALASKAN newspapers question her fitness for the job.

42. She supports aerial hunting of wolves even though it was outlawed by Congress. She's using a loophole..

43. She's part of Feminists for Life and is AGAINST BIRTH CONTROL. It would be awesome if someone asked her McCain's now famous "should insurance companies cover viagra/birth control" question.

44. Undecideds apparently don't like the Palin pick.

45. More environmental problems - She fighting to prevent Belugas from being listed as endangered.

46. In addition to polar bears, belugas, and wolves, for the first time in Alaskan history she is supporting hunting black bear sows and cubs.

LeeG
08-30-2008, 10:19 PM
Holy cow, now we're judging people because they had a baby, and there was a possibility of Downs Syndrome?

Let me get this straight...

People who don't believe in abortion shouldn't have babies because they might find out through tests, that the unborn child is not perfect. They cannot abort the baby, and are guilty of bringing a malformed human into existence.

let me get this straight, Palin believes abortion should only be allowed if the mothers health is endangered,,so if her daughter gets raped,,well,,that's life.

Tom Montgomery
08-30-2008, 10:25 PM
The mainstream media is going to have a field day with this VP choice.

I couldn't be more pleased.

crawdaddyjim50
08-30-2008, 10:26 PM
Dan you really shouldn't reprint stuff you read on the Kos kids site.

Jim

huisjen
08-30-2008, 10:31 PM
Kos generally provides references. When you compare my list to the trite crap that started this thread, I think my list holds up okay.

riptide
08-31-2008, 12:36 AM
Your list holds up fine, Dan. Whether Palin holds up is another story.

In the trite vein that started this thread: What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Dick Cheney?

When Sarah shoots her friends, it isn't an accident. :D

Pierce Nichols
08-31-2008, 12:40 AM
McCain always did have a thing for rich bimbos.

PatCox
08-31-2008, 12:49 AM
Wow, the way the republicans fall in line and worship slavishly whoever they are told to is remarkable. Complete abdication of independant thought, this is who McCain chose, even though I never heard of her in my life, she's a superhuman hero, case closed. Breathtaking.

abbyj
08-31-2008, 12:55 AM
Kos generally provides references. When you compare my list to the trite crap that started this thread, I think my list holds up okay.

It's so cute when monkey boy C+P's on behalf of someone else, better yet Monkey Boy, your C+P has no facts to back it up.My list does :D Smells like someone pinched off a Bernstein here

riptide
08-31-2008, 12:55 AM
Dan you really shouldn't reprint stuff you read on the Kos kids site.

Jim

It's all documented, Jim. Here's the link for anyone who wants to check it out. I haven't looked at everything, but the stuff I looked at is credible.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/30/201818/606/27/580690

GudgeonCurmudgeon
08-31-2008, 01:12 AM
Okay, I gotta ask: Is anyone really surprised that the mother of five kids thinks that solution to our energy problems is to DRILL DRILL DRILL ???

abbyj
08-31-2008, 01:15 AM
It's all documented, Jim. Here's the link for anyone who wants to check it out. I haven't looked at everything, but the stuff I looked at is credible.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/30/201818/606/27/580690

Start digging Rip:D

abbyj
08-31-2008, 01:28 AM
Okay, I gotta ask: Is anyone really surprised that the mother of five kids thinks that solution to our energy problems is to DRILL DRILL DRILL ???

Real cute, another Captain Blight comment

paladin
08-31-2008, 02:41 AM
Such problems only exist if you are using a cocktail weenie to start with....

jbelow
08-31-2008, 06:36 AM
Holy cow, now we're judging people because they had a baby, and there was a possibility of Downs Syndrome?

Let me get this straight...

People who don't believe in abortion shouldn't have babies because they might find out through tests, that the unborn child is not perfect. They cannot abort the baby, and are guilty of bringing a malformed human into existence.

BrianW , That is the way the left thinks. It's scary. Liberalisum may be a birth defect. No one is born perfect. These people need to be involved with organiztions like the special olympics or their local church youth groups.
Kids with special needs or Downs Syndrome will steal your heart. I think they are born to test and teach us , to make us love and live better , to make us better human beings.

Rigadog
08-31-2008, 07:01 AM
Here's how the Red States see her:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W5IAPK0hbU&eurl=http://

Tylerdurden
08-31-2008, 07:27 AM
"Behold the great image of authority; a dog's obeyed in office." King Lear.

Milo Christensen
08-31-2008, 07:34 AM
Kids with special needs or Downs Syndrome will steal your heart. I think they are born to test and teach us , to make us love and live better , to make us better human beings.

My wife has "special needs" and has certainly stolen my heart, has taught me more than I can tell, has helped me to love more and live better than I could have imagined before I met her.

Great post, jbelow. Shame on any one who attempts to use Trig Palin against Sarah Palin. Except people like that can know no shame.

BrianW
08-31-2008, 07:55 AM
My wife has "special needs"

So does my daughter. Apparently she should have been chopped up and sucked out before birth.

SMARTINSEN
08-31-2008, 08:13 AM
Way too much rancor here. Does anyone feel sorry for the baby? This is simply a distraction from any substantiate discussion.

But McCain surely realized that this issue would be beaten like a drum by the lunatic fringe on both sides.

We will see how she bears up to rigors of the campaign.

huisjen
08-31-2008, 08:53 AM
McSame realizes nothing. There was apparently very little vetting done in his VP selection.

Sure I feel sorry for the kid. So what? How does that influence my opinion of the mother. Or is it grandmother?

huisjen
08-31-2008, 08:57 AM
McSame realizes nothing. There was apparently very little vetting done in his VP selection.

Sure I feel sorry for the kid. So what? How does that influence my opinion of the mother. Or is it grandmother?

abbyj
08-31-2008, 09:37 AM
Way too much rancor here. Does anyone feel sorry for the baby?


Why? He's loved, and in this day and age has unlimited potential

Hopefully the haters here just stick to the vulgar sexism.

Thier "brothers in arms" are filling blogs and article comment sections with jokes about the "mentally disabled" ( Sadly, Not the term being used in their posts:( ) occupying the Whitehouse.

I will not stand for a single comment/post on our sponsors site attacking, insulting, etc. the mentally disabled. For example, a version of an image post by Joe CSOH some time ago (http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/snugglymuffins/evenifyouwin.png)

I won't bother Scot with it ( we should be able to police ourselves ), but I will bring it to the attention of the NDSS.

I firmly believe our sponsors will eliminate The Bilge if such comments/jokes taint this site and it's brought to their attention by NDSS advocates and related defense groups,

But if we can't suppress it ourselves...........

I have a zero tolerance on this issue, we all should

abbyj
08-31-2008, 09:50 AM
McSame realizes nothing. There was apparently very little vetting done in his VP selection.

Sure I feel sorry for the kid. So what? How does that influence my opinion of the mother. Or is it grandmother?


Huisjen, The Daily Kos needs your deep thoughts 24/7. You are doing their cause a great disservice by spending time here. THEY NEED YOUR LEADERSHIP!!!!!!!. I know it will be tough for you to leave this place, but it is your calling to support them with your reliable journalism.

Wayne Jeffers
08-31-2008, 10:04 AM
This Liberal heartily endorses her right to choose to have the baby. What I take exception to is her wish to deny my three daughters the ability to choose to have an abortion, or not, in the same circumstance, or if (God forbid) one of them was raped.

Does getting pregnant at 40-something show less than good judgement? Maybe. I'm much more concerned with her judgement on issues of national import, since she was pretty clearly chosen solely to appeal to the Lunatic Wing of the Republican Party.

I have no problem with large families, if one can provide for them. I have five children myself. (Plus, there was one stillbirth and two miscarriages.) The last one was born when I was 35.

My grandfather had 20 children. My grandmother died of blood poisoning at age 42 three weeks after number 16 was born. Grandfather remarried eight years later (to a much younger wife) and had four more in his 50's. Arguably not the best judgement. Had a small house (shack?) and 40 acres at the head of a hollow in deepest Clay County WV. Practiced subsistence farming. Never had a pot to p*ss in or a window to throw it out. Somehow made it work. Children mostly turned out okay. Family reunions are pretty large.

Wayne

Tom Montgomery
08-31-2008, 10:07 AM
What does The Daily Kos have to do with Dan's comment that Mrs. Palin's infant son is irrelevant to his opinion of Mrs. Palin as a VP candidate? :confused:

Wipe your chin, abby. You're drooling.

Memphis Mike
08-31-2008, 10:17 AM
Wow, the way the republicans fall in line and worship slavishly whoever they are told to is remarkable. Complete abdication of independant thought, this is who McCain chose, even though I never heard of her in my life, she's a superhuman hero, case closed. Breathtaking.

They really can't think for themselves. The lopsided babtist preachers and the right wing hate radio jocks do it for them.

pila
08-31-2008, 11:26 PM
I wondered if the pregnancy may have been accidental and not really planned. Happens all the time.

abbyj
08-31-2008, 11:53 PM
I wondered if the pregnancy may have been accidental and not really planned. Happens all the time.

You need to speak Daily Kosinese if you are going to make a statement like that in this crowd.

Speak Kosinese:D

" Palin is irresponsible with her uterus, how can she be a responsible VP? "

A headline like that will give something for Leslie to hammer since his Keating tantrums lost steam

Rigadog
09-01-2008, 08:21 AM
This Liberal heartily endorses her right to choose to have the baby. What I take exception to is her wish to deny my three daughters the ability to choose to have an abortion, or not, in the same circumstance, or if (God forbid) one of them was raped.

Does getting pregnant at 40-something show less than good judgement? Maybe. I'm much more concerned with her judgement on issues of national import, since she was pretty clearly chosen solely to appeal to the Lunatic Wing of the Republican Party.

I have no problem with large families, if one can provide for them. I have five children myself. (Plus, there was one stillbirth and two miscarriages.) The last one was born when I was 35.

My grandfather had 20 children. My grandmother died of blood poisoning at age 42 three weeks after number 16 was born. Grandfather remarried eight years later (to a much younger wife) and had four more in his 50's. Arguably not the best judgement. Had a small house (shack?) and 40 acres at the head of a hollow in deepest Clay County WV. Practiced subsistence farming. Never had a pot to p*ss in or a window to throw it out. Somehow made it work. Children mostly turned out okay. Family reunions are pretty large.

Wayne

You assume that she conceived the child as a consenting participant in the act of sexual congress. She may have been taken against her will. She supports making a woman being forced to bear a child conceived by rape, perhaps she was just practicing what she preaches.

jbelow
09-01-2008, 08:57 AM
They really can't think for themselves. The lopsided babtist preachers and the right wing hate radio jocks do it for them.

You and Pat must be one of those free thinking independent sheep. The kind that walks into a box canyon , become lost , and baaah baaah at the canyon walls.

ChrisF
09-01-2008, 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by Memphis Mike http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1931876#post1931876)
They really can't think for themselves.
You and Pat must be one of those . . . .


Q.E.D.

Bob Adams
09-01-2008, 11:46 AM
I'd be curious why of all people, you would think it's any of your G-Damn business!

Well, I guess to a leftist, reproduction is best left to the poor inner city welfare Moms. Supporting their irresponsible breeding gives them a nice warm feeling inside.

crawdaddyjim50
09-01-2008, 11:53 AM
And now for the truth.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/palin-confirms-daughters-pregnancy-915378.html


The Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin has announced that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant, in an announcement intended to knock down rumors by liberal bloggers that Palin faked her own pregnancy to cover up for her child.
Bristol Palin, one of Palin's five children with her husband, Todd, is about five months pregnant and is going to keep the child and marry the father, the Palins said in a statement released by the campaign of Republican presidential candidate John McCain.
Bristol Palin made the decision on her own to keep the baby, McCain aides said.
"We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us," the Palins' statement said.
"Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support," the Palins said.
The Palins asked the news media to respect the young couple's privacy.
"Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family. We ask the media, respect our daughter and Levi's privacy as has always been the tradition of children of candidates," the statement concluded.
Senior McCain campaign officials said McCain knew of the daughter's pregnancy when he selected Palin last week as his vice presidential running mate, deciding that it did not disqualify the 44-year-old governor in any way.
In the short period since she was announced last Friday, Palin has helped to energize the Republican Party's conservative base, giving the McCain camp fresh energy going into the campaign for the November 4th election against Democrat Barack Obama.
McCain officials said the news of the daughter's pregnancy was being released to rebut what one aide called "mud-slinging and lies" circulating on liberal blog sites.
According to these rumors, Sarah Palin had faked a pregnancy and pretended to have given birth in May to her fifth child, a son named Trig who has Down syndrome. The rumor was that Trig was actually Bristol Palin's child and that Sarah Palin was the grandmother.
A senior McCain campaign official said the McCain camp was appalled that these rumors had not only been spread around liberal blog sites and partisan Democrats, but also were the subject of heightened interest from mainstream news media.
"The despicable rumors that have been spread by liberal blogs, some even with Barack Obama's name in them, is a real anchor around the Democratic ticket, pulling them down in the mud in a way that certainly juxtaposes themselves against their 'campaign of change,'" a senior aide said.


What a bunch of Alinskyites. SAD

LeeG
09-01-2008, 12:06 PM
there we go, evangelicals make pretty teenage mothers and grandmothers.

Keep that abstinence education coming!!

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 12:13 PM
Bristol Palin is 17 years-old. What is candidate Palin's position on the availability of contraception to teens?

ljb5
09-01-2008, 12:14 PM
Well, I guess to a leftist, reproduction is best left to the poor inner city welfare Moms. Supporting their irresponsible breeding gives them a nice warm feeling inside.

Actually, we support reproductive choices for all people, rich and poor. :)

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 12:17 PM
Well, I guess to a leftist, reproduction is best left to the poor inner city welfare Moms. Supporting their irresponsible breeding gives them a nice warm feeling inside.

What would NOT supporting their "irresponsible breeding" entail? Forced sterilization? Imprisonment? Curious minds want to know.

Would an unmarried, teen-aged Bristol Palin qualify as an "irresponsible breeder?" Or does her family have enough net-worth to avoid that categorization?

LeeG
09-01-2008, 12:17 PM
Well, we do know that Sarah Palin "choses life" when the candidates for governor were asked "what is your position on abortion in the case of your daughter being raped?"...Palin said SHE would chose life.

surely there's a statment by her about sex education or access to contraception for sexually active teens .

ChrisF
09-01-2008, 12:18 PM
Actually, Jim, at least on DailyKos there were many posters saying this was nobody's business. "Live and let live" is a pretty liberal viewpoint, after all. They dug around until they found photos that set the rumors straight, and then posted them. By the time I went to bed last night, they had self-policed and had the story straight. I seriously doubt the right will self-police as well about Obama's lack of involvement with the rumors.

Osborne Russell
09-01-2008, 12:21 PM
It is not your place to judge the decisions made by a citizen of another country, concerning reproduction. They may or may not share your cultural values, but you have no right to pass judgment on them for their decisions.

Donn the cultural relativist welcomes the world's excess population to the land of opportunity.

Bob Adams
09-01-2008, 12:32 PM
What would NOT supporting their "irresponsible breeding" entail? Forced sterilization? Imprisonment? Curious minds want to know.

Would an unmarried, teen-aged Bristol Palin qualify as an "irresponsible breeder?" Or does her family have enough net-worth to avoid that categorization?

I don't know Tom. Several years ago, the city of Baltimore offered contaceptives to inner city girls, to which the NAACP screamed the city was trying to commit genocide. Not sterilization, mind you, contraception. I guess they want thier teens pregnant. Around here, my teenage son knows of section 8 house occupants who are trying desperatly to have children, strictly for the welfare money. These scumbags have destroyed my property value, property I worked all my life to buy, comparable property is given to them. On top of this insult, we taxpayers pay these people to have more kids, kids who more than likely will follow in the mothers footprint. (There is never a father, that would disqulify the family from welfare in most cases, requiring someone in the family actually work for a living) . How do you discourage this without hurting the innocent children? Beats me. Got any ideas?

Bristol Palin is planning to marry the father. Sounds like responsability to me.

ljb5
09-01-2008, 12:36 PM
Around here, my teenage son knows of section 8 house occupants who are... trying desperatly to have children.... (There is never a father...)

Sounds like you need to have talk with your teenage son.

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 12:37 PM
Like it or not, young people these days tend to co-habitate and have children out of wedlock. I'm not convinced it is a phenomenon strictly of people living in poverty. We stigmatize the poor for the very same behavior in which our own children engage.

Bristol Palin may marry the father of her child... but pregnant and marrying at age 17, the odds are the marriage will end in divorce. Her odds of eventually living in poverty are large. Although perhaps not as large as others in her situation, given the celebrity of her parents.

Rigadog
09-01-2008, 12:40 PM
NEW YORK In a surprise announcement, the McCain campaign revealed today that Sarah and Todd Palin have announced that their 17-year-old unmarried daughter Bristol is pregnant.

The couple said in a statement that Bristol will keep the baby.

When news broke, it had not yet been reported by her home state papers, which have often been the source for outside media for other background on Palin.

When the Anchorage Daily News did report the news today, it pointed out: "The Daily News had asked Palin's press secretary, Bill McAllister, over the weekend to address rumors that Bristol was pregnant. 'I don't know. I have no evidence that Bristol's pregnant,' he said on Saturday."

The McCain team asserted that he knew about the pregnancy when he selected Palin. She has five children and now a grandchild coming as she hits the campaign trail.

She and the campaign also are asking that the media respect the family's privacy on this matter.

Their statement continued: "We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us. Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support."

Steve Schmidt, a top McCain spokesman, said: "Life happens."

The Anchorage Daily News reported earlier today that rumors had abounded in the state for months that Bristol Palin was pregnant. This turned out to be true, but what it fostered was other rumors that she was the real mother of Sarah Palin's fifth child, who was delivered in April.

Paul Girouard
09-01-2008, 12:44 PM
Like it or not, young people these days tend to co-habitate and have children out of wedlock. I'm not convinced it is a phenomenon strictly of people living in poverty. We stigmatize the poor for the very same behavior in which our own children engage.

Bristol may marry the father of her child, but pregnant and marrying at age 17 the odds are the marriage will end in divorce. Her odds of eventually living in poverty are large.



I'm not sure who's better at taking someones else's comments totally out of context and then twisting them beyond all 'normal' known meaning and reinserting them into a statement. But your near the top Tom:D

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 12:47 PM
I believe the "someone Else's comments" was: "Bristol Palin is planning to mary the father. Sounds like responsability to me."

17 years-old, pregnant out-of-wedlock, and "responsible." Sounds like an oxymoron to me. YMMV. But just take a second to imagine if she were the teen-aged daughter of Barack Obama. :eek:

LeeG
09-01-2008, 12:49 PM
little known facts about Palins press secretary,,,he didn't know...wtf?

http://www.adn.com/1536/story/512560.html


The Daily News had asked Palin's press secretary, Bill McAllister, over the weekend to address rumors that Bristol was pregnant.


"I don't know. I have no evidence that Bristol's pregnant," he said on Saturday.

Bob Adams
09-01-2008, 12:50 PM
Sounds like you need to have talk with your teenage son.

About what? Are you suggesting something? Unfortuately, we have no choice but interact with these people, I can't afford to move and the government won't help me gat a house elsewhere.

ljb5
09-01-2008, 12:50 PM
The McCain team asserted that he knew about the pregnancy when he selected Palin.

Either that is an out-right lie or McCain, Palin and the campaign are completely incompetent.

They really could not have managed this story any worse.

It sure looks like they didn't see it coming.

Paul Girouard
09-01-2008, 12:52 PM
I believe the "someone Else's comments" was: "Bristol Palin is planning to mary the father. Sounds like responsability to me."


No more the whole thing Bob posted about , you know his generally meaning but you and 5 just pick a point of it then twist it.

Maybe it's what you both see as truth , and there is some truth in all the posts , just different views or takes on the truth as you all see it.

Thats what makes you guys so good at this format , the subtle twist and rend to a statement.

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 12:57 PM
Maybe it's what you both see as truth , and there is some truth in all the posts , just different views or takes on the truth as you all see it.

That is correct. I do not claim to have a monopoly on the truth any more than you or Bob. I am merely presenting another point-of-view.

I suspect most out-of-wedlock pregnancy is the result of unrestrained, unthinking horniness, immaturity, ignorance, substance-abuse, and/or moral lassitude rather than a deliberate attempt to scam the system.

Paul Girouard
09-01-2008, 01:05 PM
I suspect most out-of-wedlock pregnancy is the result of unrestrained, unthinking horniness, immaturity, ignorance, and/or moral lassitude rather than a deliberate attempt to scam the system.



I'd agree with that , with a underlined "most" as that allows wiggle room for Bob's post in that some are manipulating the system.

These issues are as complex as they are simple if that makes sense:o They involve people so that creates the complexity.

TomF
09-01-2008, 01:07 PM
Oddly, I think this will probably help McCain/Palin.

Because Bristol's keeping the child/marrying the father, the religious right will be happy. And having a kid who's maybe not acted the way you'd really wish? That enhances the "she's just like us" factor which is the biggest thing that Sarah Palin's had going for her as a candidate.

LeeG
09-01-2008, 01:16 PM
I'm waiting for the media vans to show up is Wasilla

Paul Girouard
09-01-2008, 01:27 PM
I'm waiting for the media vans to show up is Wasilla



Do you think that what should happen? Should thier private life be left private? Hell it was only a BJ, she was older than 16. Oh wait that another storey:rolleyes:

john l
09-01-2008, 01:42 PM
i feel for the young woman. she has to confront a personal situation on the international level. i guess her mom's ambition is the most important thing in this family. what about palin's new born? do you think he needs a mothers care?
as vp it will be tough to be a mom who can always be there to nurture the infant. while i generally like sarah, i don't think she will be either a good vp or a good mom. timing is a little off to say the least.

LeeG
09-01-2008, 02:14 PM
Do you think that what should happen? Should thier private life be left private? Hell it was only a BJ, she was older than 16. Oh wait that another storey:rolleyes:


I don't think Britney Spears choice of underwear needs to be national news.

Where the possible president of the United States comes from is national news.

The news reporters are going to be all over Wasilla to find out about her time as mayor. To expect privacy at this stage is ridiculous and unrealistic. Pro-life anti-sex education 44yo grandma governor who's press secretary didn't know she was a grandma???

Sorry, this isn't mayor of Wasilla or even the governor of Alaska anymore, it's the second in command of the larges super power,,,it's worth knowing if she's got a lot on her plate.

Osborne Russell
09-01-2008, 03:13 PM
Do you think that what should happen? Should thier private life be left private? Hell it was only a BJ, she was older than 16. Oh wait that another storey:rolleyes:

Americans are going to have to watch what they say from now on. Family values is what being President is all about. So what if you have to give up a little privacy for the war on terror? The only ones who object are the ones who have something to hide.

LeeG
09-01-2008, 03:33 PM
So you support a glass ceiling for women running for the VP position or so it seems.

And you where NOT referring to checking into the daughter pregnancy? That seemed to be the direction you where headed at the time.


so when did you stop beating your wife?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-01-2008, 04:01 PM
Wasn't it the Republican strategy to make this election "about values" and not "about issues"? :D;):):rolleyes::eek:

LeeG
09-01-2008, 04:04 PM
no Paul, the point is that your implication of my position is totally your own construction.

Osborne Russell
09-01-2008, 04:52 PM
So you support a glass ceiling for women running for the VP position or so it seems.

Could there be anything funnier than Republicans as champions of women's lib?


The current high percentage of women in the military has been achieved by gender quotas in recruitment and retention, and by affirmative action to promote women to higher ranks so they can command men. Nobody admits the existence of gender quotas, but everybody knows that recruitment quotas explain why we now have a 15% female military.

http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/2006/feb06/psrfeb06.html

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 05:23 PM
Wasn't it the Republican strategy to make this election "about values" and not "about issues"? ;):):rolleyes::eek:

Oh well, whatever, nevermind. :D

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2007/08/08-15/nevermind-nirvana.jpg

Paul Girouard
09-01-2008, 05:28 PM
no Paul, the point is that your implication of my position is totally your own construction.



As was yours that I beat my wife, of your own construction/ implication that is.

So you are saying that your post # 93 was NOT in the direction of checking into the daughter < Bristol > pregnancy as the thread about post 73 had drifted to, pretty much, that subject.

Paul Girouard
09-01-2008, 05:32 PM
Could there be anything funnier than Republicans as champions of women's lib?



Democrats as champions of the civil rights movement? As so would claim it's more a entrapment / enslavement program as it has evolved more into a entitlement program.
YMMV of course.

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 05:33 PM
OK. Enough nonsense. Is Sarah Palin the best choice that John McCain could have made?

Better than Bobby Jindal, governor of Louisiana, for instance?

Paul Girouard
09-01-2008, 05:38 PM
#1: OK. Enough nonsense. Is Sarah Palin the best choice that John McCain could have made?

#2: Better than Bobby Jindal, governor of Louisiana, for instance?



#1: IMO, no, I stated that in one of the first threads , I believe the one Norm started.

#2: Was he in the short list?

I don't claim to know who would be best, her one small positive to me is he 'relatively' short political career. But the bashing of her personal life seems to be against what most here decry when it's about a Dem. I just see massive hypocrisy.

You of course see it differently. Twist and turn, LeeG , Tom M. , 5 , etc etc.

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 06:36 PM
Is Sarah Palin the best choice that John McCain could have made?

#1: IMO, no, I stated that in one of the first threads
And that is the the problem IMHO. Forget the question of McCain's age for the moment. His first important decision resulted in a somewhat less than optimum choice of VP... which is even acknowledged by his partisans. What does this say about John McCain's judgement?

George Dubya Bush has, arguably, failed this country by his choice of lieutenants: Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, Michael Brown, etc. Are we looking at more of the same?

I'll put it even more bluntly: Is the right-wing of the Republican party forcing John McCain to choose something less than the Best and the Brightest as members of his team? Just as they forced George W. Bush?

I think so. In the GOP of the 21st century, ideological purity counts for more than competency.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-01-2008, 06:49 PM
In the GOP of the 21st century, ideological purity counts for more than competency.

Or, as they themselves put it, in their own terms, values not issues.

abbyj
09-01-2008, 06:54 PM
#1: IMO, no, I stated that in one of the first threads , I believe the one Norm started.


Initially I agreed with you but....

-She has more experience than Obama

-She has accomplished more in government than Obama

-She has energized the party

-She has left the lefties with nothing to attack but her daughter's and her own uterus

-She adds a conservative to "middle of the road" McCain's campaign

-She's a strong speaker, and will make Biden cry in the debates

-She has shown the balls to actually "Drain The Swamp" , Not just talk about it like some other useless politicians.

Paul Girouard
09-01-2008, 07:03 PM
I commend Obama for his stance on the Palin family subject. "Off-limits."




It appears , if WBF is a cross section of US politics , that the message isn't getting out to the ground troops.

Wayne Jeffers
09-01-2008, 07:04 PM
You assume that she conceived the child as a consenting participant in the act of sexual congress. She may have been taken against her will. She supports making a woman being forced to bear a child conceived by rape, perhaps she was just practicing what she preaches.

I assume nothing. I don't feel it is any of my business what she does with her body. I support her right to do whatever she damn well pleases.

What my daughters may wish to do with their bodies is none of her damn business, and I resent her wishing to deny my daughers the same freedom to choose that I gladly give her.

Wayne

Bob Smalser
09-01-2008, 07:05 PM
Y'all should follow your leader's advice and avoid the lemmings falling into the Obama-McCain Moron Trap. It's every bit as difficult to avoid counterproductivity attacking a woman as it is attacking a black man, and McCain has learned those lessons from Obama and Hillary well.

You come across as petty, elitist, sexist and mean dissing both women and the flyover people....and at the rate you're digging it's gonna play a big part in costing you another election.

LeeG
09-01-2008, 07:06 PM
I have a question, did Sarah Palin increase the distribution for Alaska residents across the board? In other words it was stated as an aid to higher energy costs but could that mean a family in in a city was getting the same extra chunk of free money as the folks in the woods even thought energy costs might be different?


I'm just wondering if one of the things that makes her popular is a family of four getting an extra $5000 in the mail.

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 07:07 PM
The choice of someone like Bobby Jindal would have resulted in a slam-dunk.

McCain's choice of Sarah Palin highlights the questions about his age and his judgement.

It is amazing that Sarah Palin was his choice given all the alternatives.

LeeG
09-01-2008, 07:07 PM
Y'all should follow your leader's advice .


that would be my stomach

Paul Girouard
09-01-2008, 07:13 PM
.

McCain's choice of Sarah Palin highlights the questions about his age and his judgement.

It is amazing that Sarah Palin was his choice given all the alternatives.



Didn't you say the "big boys at RNC " did the picking? Isn't Capt. McCain just a figure head like Dubya? A dancing puppet? You guys go back and forth , hither and yon it's hard to keep up:D

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 07:16 PM
Didn't you say the "big boys at RNC " did the picking?

Not me.

I think the range of McCain's choices for VP was absolutely influenced by the right-wing of his party (this is why someone like Tom Ridge was ruled out). But I also think Sarah Palin was entirely Johnny Mac's choice.

Amazing. If you give a few moments of thought to all the alternatives available to McCain, the choice of Sarah Palin is stunning.

Keith Wilson
09-01-2008, 07:18 PM
Y'all should follow your leader's advice and avoid the lemmings falling into the Obama-McCain Moron Trap. It's every bit as difficult to avoid counterproductivity attacking a woman as it is attacking a black man, and McCain has learned those lessons from Obama and Hillary well.Indeed he has. One should never do that oneself; there are are always people unconnected with the campaign and 527 groups that can do it for you, and then there's the viral internet route. Then you can be shocked, shocked, and condemn the slimy bastards in no uncertain terms. Works great. Did you know Obama has a half-brother living in poverty in Kenya? And that Obama's a Muslim? Seriously, I doubt what gets written here will influence many votes one way or another.

But not to worry. If the McCain campaign really didn't do their homework and there's anything untoward in Ms. Palin's past, some enterprising young reporter who wants to make a name for himself will find it. All we need do is wait.

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 07:31 PM
It's every bit as difficult to avoid counterproductivity attacking a woman as it is attacking a black man....
Of course.

One only has to address John McCain's stated prerequisites for a VP: someone who shares his values & positions on the issues & who is ready to step into the position of POTUS on day one.

Sarah Palin is an unapologetic right-winger (good luck attracting Hillary Clinton supporters). Evidently this means that John McCain is a right-winger as well. The center has been abandoned.

Sarah Palin's qualifications to be POTUS are at issue (as they should be given that John McCain is 72 years of age). She cannot afford any gaffes in the next 2 months.

Barack Obama & Joe Biden do not need to attack Sarah Palin. Every professional comedian in the U.S. has her in his sights.

This VP choice has every chance of matching that of Dan Quayle for notoriety.

Bob Adams
09-01-2008, 07:33 PM
It appears , if WBF is a cross section of US politics , that the message isn't getting out to the ground troops.

Not a cross section. Heavily skewed. Big time port list.

ljb5
09-01-2008, 07:33 PM
If the McCain campaign really didn't do their homework and there's anything untoward in Ms. Palin's past, some enterprising young reporter who wants to make a name for himself will find it. All we need do is wait.

On that note...

ABC confirms that Palin was a member of the Alaska Independence Party --- an anti-American secessionist organization. Their goal is ---- quite literally --- to break apart the United States. She gave a speech at their convention just a few months ago.

I've got a quote around here somewhere from the leader....something about being an Alaskan, not an American.

Also, she's going to be deposed under oath in the next week or two.

And her daughter is pregnant....

And she was for the 'Bridge to Nowhere' before she was against it.

And she was the lead on Ted Steven's 527, before she was against him.....

How do you spell "implosion".... with one Palin or two?

Bob Adams
09-01-2008, 07:35 PM
We must be electing a Pope....everyone expects moral perfection. Sorry folks, NONE of the canidates can walk on water.

SMARTINSEN
09-01-2008, 07:38 PM
I would not be surprised to find that she becomes the Thomas Eagleton of the GOP. At this point the MSM, not to mention the wack jobs at KOS will whip this to a most delicious froth. They need their viewership.

It is not like we can have any reasonable discussion of health insurance, war, reproductive choice, the dire straights of the economy, or any of innumerable serious issues cascading around us.

Cuyahoga Chuck
09-01-2008, 07:44 PM
Initially I agreed with you but....

-She has more experience than Obama.

Her state has about 650,000 people total.
Obama represents a state with in excess of 12 million people. His hometown alone has almost 3 million.


-She has accomplished more in government than Obama.

Easy to say. Got any examples?


-She has energized the party

-She has left the lefties with nothing to attack but her daughter's and her own uterus.

She is running for the Vice-presidency of the United States. There hasn't been, of late, much held back in these types of campaigns by either party. Remember how John Kerry was accused of, somehow, stealing five military awards for valor from the US Navy? And his wife suffered a lot of criticism because she was an heiress to the H.J. Heinz fortune? There was a well known incident where a Bush supporter accused McCain of being a traitor while he was a prisoner. The rhetoric has gotten pretty sleazy and a lot of it came from the brain of Karl Rove. Remember him?
Sorry, There is no way to shut the door on it now. Anyone who longs to hold high office had better come to grips with the process before they set foot on the campaign trail.


--She adds a conservative to "middle of the road" McCain's campaign

-She's a strong speaker, and will make Biden cry in the debates.

However she fares it will be discussed here. Will you be here if she gets hammered or will you take a powder as usual?


-She has shown the balls to actually "Drain The Swamp" , Not just talk about it like some other useless politicians.

I am not certain what your are refering to. If you are talking about Alaska politics I'll agree it's almost all looks rather crooked. But, most of the big players, all Republicans, are still in office. It's the FBI that's trying to take down Stevens and Young. Don't know how the Murkowskis are faring but I hope they are being looked at too. And if the Palins are getting a look from the G-Men they ain't talking. Mrs. Palin is, herself, fighting charges of a serious conflict of interest because she seems to have tried to get her sister's ex-husband fired from the state police force. We will certainly hear more about this later.
If I was a McCain campaign advisor I would start thinking of shaking loose from that Republican circus. It suffers from so many unknown unknowns it may implode.

Paul Girouard
09-01-2008, 07:47 PM
We must be electing a Pope....everyone expects moral perfection. Sorry folks, NONE of the canidates can walk on water.



Neither can the Pope, Dali Lama, Head of ECUSA, Head of the church of England etc, etc. All just men.

As far as the port list IMO your right , although 'they' don't see it that way. They say the place is balanced:rolleyes:

SMARTINSEN
09-01-2008, 07:47 PM
Agree about the portside list of the bilge. But I also think that the entire country is headed in the same direction. The outliers becoming more strident, but the middle moving more to the left.

For example, IMHO it would sure be nice to know that everyone has the opportunity for adequate health care. That is the issue that drives my vote. I also believe that it can and must be achieved without breaking the bank. (BHO needs to do more homework here.)

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 07:49 PM
She has left the lefties with nothing to attack but her daughter's and her own uterus.Now abby, dear, that is simply untrue. I have criticized Johnny Mac's choice of Sarah Palin as his VP for reasons other than her personal problems.

Get a grip.

ljb5
09-01-2008, 07:50 PM
-She has shown the balls to actually "Drain The Swamp" , Not just talk about it like some other useless politicians.

She was the director of Ted Steven's 527.

Suck on that for a while.

LeeG
09-01-2008, 07:51 PM
I think if you want a culture of life well represented then a 17yr old mommy sure does it.

LeeG
09-01-2008, 07:52 PM
Easy to say. Got any examples?


.

sure, her state gets a lot of money from a few oil companies so she made sure every Alaskan got some.

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 07:55 PM
She was against the "bridge to nowhere" after she was for it.

But that's OK. It just means that she is a typical politician. The question of her qualifications to - God forbid - be the POTUS go far beyond any single political issue.

Osborne Russell
09-01-2008, 08:35 PM
It's every bit as difficult to avoid counterproductivity attacking a woman as it is attacking a black man, and McCain has learned those lessons from Obama and Hillary well.

True. But Republicans fool only themselves when all they see is attacks on Palin. She is what she is. What is insufferable is Republican hypocrisy about her. What would Republicans be saying if one of Barack's daughters was knocked up? Let's see -- it proves Democrats have only contempt for family values, gay marriage is destroying civilization, etc.

They're hoping emotional sympathy for Palin & her daughter will divert and blunt subtantive criticism of Republican policy, i.e. it's an appeal to stupidness and sentimentality, the kind of thing that has served them well.

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 08:45 PM
She was the director of Ted Steven's 527.

Suck on that for a while.

Oh ohhh... http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/01/palin_was_a_director_of_embatt.html

LeeG
09-01-2008, 08:46 PM
bingo, it's a steroid for the low information voter (yeah, I'm overusing the term)

Keith Wilson
09-01-2008, 09:25 PM
Well, anything to avoid talking about actual issues. We can't have that.

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 09:29 PM
"This election is not going to be about issues. This election is [about] which ticket represents and shares people's values." -- Matthew Dowd, Republican strategist, on ABC's "This Week with George Stephanopolos."

Wonderful.

Screw the issues of Iraq, Afghanistan, Al-Qaeda, Russia, Georgia, North Korea, China, illegal drugs, the economy, taxes, the deficit, education, torture, the over-stretched armed forces, the Constitution, habeas corpus, social security, medicare, medicaid, health insurance, etc.

This election is going to be about religion, fetuses, and evolution.

God help us. And spare us from know-nothing Republicans.

BrianW
09-01-2008, 10:05 PM
Lot's of spin going on here. We're all guilty of it sometimes. Palin seems to generate a lot more than usual though.

Might I suggest those making disparaging remarks step back a bit, and not get so personally involved in the topic.

Nobody here has changed their mind on the topic, we're just running a decent family into the ground.

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 10:16 PM
A nice, and fairly typical, American family. But the wife and mother is not qualified to be POTUS.

The thought of Johnny Mac winning the election and dying in office is frightening.

BrianW
09-01-2008, 10:30 PM
She was the director of Ted Steven's 527.

Suck on that for a while.

Did ya notice that Ted won the Primary election last week?

Alaskans like Ted. Young is probably done though.

Tom Montgomery
09-01-2008, 10:34 PM
So much for reform in Alaska, eh?

Cuyahoga Chuck
09-01-2008, 10:43 PM
Lot's of spin going on here. We're all guilty of it sometimes. Palin seems to generate a lot more than usual though.

Might I suggest those making disparaging remarks step back a bit, and not get so personally involved in the topic.

Nobody here has changed their mind on the topic, we're just running a decent family into the ground.

She isn't being conscripted to run for federal office. She is there of her own free will. If she enters the campaign she had better have her right-wing ducks in a row. After the hammering received by those on the left there will be a concerted effort to return the favor to every Republican running. You can't change the rules in the middle of the game.
Among the Knights of the Order of Dirty Politics Karl Rove is the Grand Master and chief diispenser and he has never batted an eye when hurling the most aweful stuff. If what he has done in the past rubs off on current Republican candidates, that's tough!

LeeG
09-01-2008, 11:06 PM
Is it true that Sara Palin just got her first passport last June '07?

BrianW
09-01-2008, 11:12 PM
So there's to be no high road among the fans, and very little among the players.

LeeG
09-01-2008, 11:16 PM
Just keep posting the pretty pictures.

WTF
09-01-2008, 11:43 PM
Tom


Screw the issues of Iraq, Afghanistan, Al-Qaeda, Russia, Georgia, North Korea, China, illegal drugs, the economy, taxes, the deficit, education, torture, the over-stretched armed forces, the Constitution, habeas corpus, social security, medicare, medicaid, health insurance, etc.

You want to have an intelligent debate about any of the above, :confused:

Or do we disolve onto petty points and bullsh!t.

I'll be the first to admit that I enter the arguement from a side, and I know what it's called.

However, I would like to think that I can have a discussion with anyone, because I know how I came to this view. I've thought about it a lot (probably too much). I can hold my own (fnar, fnar).

Example: I believe (hope, wish for) in universal health care and yet I am "pro-choice", do I endorse abortion? Hell No! I've known too many women that have done that and are completely screwed up because of it.

But I'll bet ya, a "pro-life" Repug. will argue that America can't afford universal health care, while the richest country in the world languishes at No.42 in the life expectancy table.

Any one want to have a REAL discussion?


:)

Nicholas Carey
09-02-2008, 12:40 AM
clinton was impeached?Actually yes. impeached; but not convicted. The impeachment is the bill of indictment passed by the House of Representatives. Once impeached, the Senate of the United States tries the case.

Rational Root
09-02-2008, 02:44 AM
Now I think you are missing my point; given that Governor Palin is expressly opposed to abortion, and given the known statistics, it was reckless of her to become pregnant.

Without going into my personal circumstances, I know quite a bit about mental handicap in siblings. "Providing resources" is not really enough, you know.

1) She may or may not have chosen. (Unless anyone has specific information to the contrary)

2) Are you saying that it would be ok to risk pregnancy at a late age, providing that you are prepared to terminate a handicapped child ? What you have said above could easily be read to mean that. If that is not what you mean, I believe it would not hurt to clarify.

Before you ask my own views, I do not know what I would do faced with that situation.

3) No medical test is perfect - Recently there have been very public cases where results from a lab for "A" ended up in "B's" charts.
"A" had a perfectly healthy stomach removed. What would you do if the terminated child turned out to be "Normal" ?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-02-2008, 05:41 AM
1) She may or may not have chosen. (Unless anyone has specific information to the contrary)

One can choose not to! Even those with a religious aversion to contraception have the option of abstinence.


2) Are you saying that it would be ok to risk pregnancy at a late age, providing that you are prepared to terminate a handicapped child ? What you have said above could easily be read to mean that. If that is not what you mean, I believe it would not hurt to clarify.)

Before you ask my own views, I do not know what I would do faced with that situation.

I am not embarking on a debate on abortion; what I am saying is that, if one is opposed to abortion, to embark on a pregnancy after the age of 40 is reckless.

There may well be people who would choose to run the risk, knowing that they would have an induced termination should the foetus have a genetic defect. That is not everyone's view, but I can see circumstances, most notably where a childless couple suceed in conceiving a child later in the mother's life, where one could be very sympathetic to such a decision, if one did not have a view that abortion is always wrong.

Such is not the case here, of course. There were already four children.


3) No medical test is perfect - Recently there have been very public cases where results from a lab for "A" ended up in "B's" charts.

"A" had a perfectly healthy stomach removed. What would you do if the terminated child turned out to be "Normal?

That is certainly true, but I also think it is irrelevant.

A couple who decide to risk conception later in the mother's life, intending to abort a foetus with a genetic defect, would have to consider that question.

My point is that if a couple have ruled out abortion as an option, which they are perfectly entitled to do, they should not risk a late pregnancy in any event.

Risking inflicting a genetic abnormality on a child, when one already has children, is reckless. I could use a stronger word, but reckless will do. I do not think that a person with that approach to human life should be anywhere near the command of a great nation's military capacity.

Milo Christensen
09-02-2008, 06:25 AM
. . . Risking inflicting a genetic abnormality on a child, when one already has children, is reckless. I could use a stronger word, but reckless will do. I do not think that a person with that approach to human life should be anywhere near the command of a great nation's military capacity.

I completely disagree with this assessment. The approach to human life demonstrated here is one of loving children. Even to the point of taking a 1/53 risk of a Down's Syndrome child. All you've done is demonstrate your very personal fears of having to care for a child that will be, basically, a child for the whole of a shortened life span. ACB, what I see here from you is a very seriously troubling advocacy that the handicapped and disabled are unworthy of life.

I seriously doubt, however, that faced with a disabling condition (perhaps Alzheimers) that you would choose to terminate your own existence.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-02-2008, 06:26 AM
You are way, way, off beam there, Milo.

See PM

Milo Christensen
09-02-2008, 06:28 AM
You call it like you see it. So do I. I've read your posts on this topic with increasing horror.

Rational Root
09-02-2008, 07:29 AM
One can choose not to! Even those with a religious aversion to contraception have the option of abstinence.

Would contraception be a reasonable approach for a couple after 40. I would imagine so. Yet it does not always work.

All I am saying is that without knowing the womans personal circumstances, I would not be throwing any stones.



I am not embarking on a debate on abortion; what I am saying is that, if one is opposed to abortion, to embark on a pregnancy after the age of 40 is reckless.

There may well be people who would choose to run the risk, knowing that they would have an induced termination should the foetus have a genetic defect. That is not everyone's view, but I can see circumstances, most notably where a childless couple suceed in conceiving a child later in the mother's life, where one could be very sympathetic to such a decision, if one did not have a view that abortion is always wrong.

Such is not the case here, of course. There were already four children.

Right back to - We do not know her personal circumstances.

Consider that it's possible that she may have been using contraception which failed. It happens. In that light her decision to have the child is perfectly in keeping with her stance against abortion.




<snip>

My point is that if a couple have ruled out abortion as an option, which they are perfectly entitled to do, they should not risk a late pregnancy in any event.

In _any_ event. You are daming a huge number of people who continue to enjoy married life by using contraception which is not 100% effective. Few methods are.



Risking inflicting a genetic abnormality on a child, when one already has children, is reckless. I could use a stronger word, but reckless will do. I do not think that a person with that approach to human life should be anywhere near the command of a great nation's military capacity.

Every time a child is concieved that risk exists to some extent.

For a quick lesson in stats. If you are 1 in 50 to have a sick child at 43, and you are 1 in 500 to concieve on some particular contraception, then you are less likely to have a sick child overall than a younger couple who plans to have a child.

By the way, I am colour blind, and short sighted, I also suffer from migraines all genetic abnormalities.....

BrianW
09-02-2008, 08:04 AM
Milo,

You're spot on, concerning the logic spelled in ACB's posts. Genetically imperfect unborn babies, should not be brought to term. Only 'reckless' (actual some secret stronger word) parents would commit such an act.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-02-2008, 08:09 AM
No, that is NOT what I said.

What I said was - it is reckless to take the risk of inflicting serious disability on a child when there is no need to do so.

Please remember that even though a parent may devote the rest of his or her life to the care of a mentally handicapped child, that child will grow into a mentally handicapped adult who will outlive his or her parents, but who will still need care.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
09-02-2008, 08:13 AM
The impact that a seriously disabled child can have on any healthy children in the family is shocking.

Rational Root
09-02-2008, 08:30 AM
The impact that a seriously disabled child can have on any healthy children in the family is shocking.

I suppose it is a matter of what you call seriously.

A good friend of mine as I grew up had a brother who had downs.

She loved him dearly.

Life was not perfect, and at times I'm sure she hated him too. Usually when he broke something she cared about.

But I doubt that in the cold light of day, she would have ever wanted to be rid of him.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-02-2008, 08:35 AM
I venture to suggest that is very far from what PIST meant.

Does she still have him, by the way? Or has she mislaid him somewhere?

Rational Root
09-02-2008, 09:05 AM
I venture to suggest that is very far from what PIST meant.

Perhaps.... But it's all a matter of degree. What is seriously handicapped to some is not to others.

I have had the good forture to know people who worked in hospices and in care of the profoundly disabled.

Seeing the world through their eyes is good for the soul.

I know of patients who were quadraplegic who painted with a brush in between their teeth. Their paintings were amazing. Not amazing for a handicapped person, just plain amazing.



Does she still have him, by the way? Or has she mislaid him somewhere?

I have mislaid her I'm afraid. You grow up, you move on, you loose touch with old friends. She got married, I lived abroad, I got married, 20 years passed.

Osborne Russell
09-02-2008, 09:23 AM
The approach to human life demonstrated here is one of loving children.

Can there ever be too many children?

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
09-02-2008, 10:28 AM
The impact that a seriously disabled child can have on any healthy children in the family is shocking.

Perhaps some flesh on the bones:

This is a bullet we were lucky enough to dodge - both the sprogs were born premature, and so spent some weeks in the local SCBU (special care baby unit) where they were fattened up and then released on an unsuspecting world to grow into healthy if sometimes irritating, adults.

But, during those weeks, we met quite a number of parents who would be a lot less fortunate.

So SWMBO took it upon herself to do some fund raising for the unit, and then to work as a counsellor for the N.C.T. - supporting people who had suffered either the death of an infant or the surprise arrival of a kid with some sort of more-or-less serious disability - I guess I could name fifty couples who had a downs syndrome child, three times that for Cerebral Palsy and another fifty with an assortment of other issues (often caused by medical intervention).

You feel for the damaged kids, for the parents who have had this drop from the sky - but most of all for the otherwise healthy kids - because this means that, almost always, they will be starved of the most important thing in a kids life - the time and attention of their parents. They may never see an "ordinary" family holiday or even an unremarkable trip round Tesco.

Leon m
09-02-2008, 11:10 AM
bump