Boat Document?

[Gerald]

We purchased a 56 foot sailboat in Panama and have worked our way 1,000 Nautical miles across the Caribbean. Sounds so easy when you write it. We plan to leave the boat in Venezuela for a few months. They are playing hard ball and want a copy of the boat document. We bought he boat from an American and only have a Texas bill of sale. We don't really care what country the boat calls home for now. We will decide where to document the boat permanently once it is here in Brasil. So, my question is, how do we proceed?
Gerald Niffenegger
Florianopolis, SC Brasil

[kc8pql]

If you're a US citizen, go here and follow the directions.
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/

[Gary E]

We purchased a 56 foot sailboat in Panama and have worked our way 1,000 Nautical miles across the Caribbean. Sounds so easy when you write it. We plan to leave the boat in Venezuela for a few months. They are playing hard ball and want a copy of the boat document. We bought he boat from an American and only have a Texas bill of sale. We don't really care what country the boat calls home for now. We will decide where to document the boat permanently once it is here in Brasil. So, my question is, how do we proceed?
Gerald Niffenegger
Florianopolis, SC Brasil

The boat is REGISTERED somewhere... you need that registeration documentation

Because you only paid for and got a bill of sale only means that you didnt steal it to the authorities.

You must "regester" ie transfer the boat into your name as legal owner.

Is the boat "Documented" in the US ? If it is, the Fed's can help you change it to your name.
http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1/CoastGuard/VesselByName.html

You mentioned a Texas bill of sale... does it have a Texas registration document?
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/boat/owner/titles_and_registration/

I hope you dont run into major problems but think of it this way... You just paid someone for a used car and all you have is a paper saying you paid Joe Blow for the car and you did it in a forign country and now your a thousand miles away and in a different country... ya see a little problem here??? ...You need to register that into your name. You may need legal help with this...

Good luck

[Tom Hunter]

Why keep your boat in a country that is playing hardball with you about ownership?

It sounds to me like a government is telling you that they will mess with you if you come to thier country. They have money and guns, they can sieze your property, there is a certain amount of corruption there.

I would try to get the boat to a place that is more freindly.

That said, if the boat is US built and you have the hull number you can get information from the US Coast Guard. Some of that information is on line.

There are several documents being discussed here:

1) US Documented Vessel: Only for US Citizens, I'm guessing you are a Brazilian citizen, so this does not apply.

2) Title: This is the legal document that says you own the boat. The Texas bill of sale could be turned into a Texas title, I'm not sure if you can do that on the internet or if you (or your lawyer) need to show up in person. You can have an boat that is not US documented, and is not US registered, and the title still says you own it.

3) Registration: This is the liscence number put on the outside of the hull for identification purposes. US documented vessels don't need this, but if your vessel lives in the waters of a US state and is not documented then the state law takes over and you need to register the boat. I don't think you need this either, since you have no plan to home port the boat in the USA.

Every country has some equivalent of these things. You may not care what port the boat calls home, but it is sounds like the Venezuelans do. The Venezuelans may be looking for some kind of documentation that shows that. If that is what they want, then you have to get the documents from Brazil.

You should make sure you have title to the boat, registering her somewhere would also be wise. But mainly, I would go somewhere freindlier.

[Gerald]

Cool USCG sites. However, I need more information. Using the current boat name turned up nothing. The big problem is that the previous owner sold the boat because he was dyeing. He had a good plan and held up his end of the deal. He died.
1) US Documented Vessel: Only for US Citizens, I'm guessing you are a Brazilian citizen, so this does not apply.
I have a US passport.
You should make sure you have title to the boat, registering her somewhere would also be wise. But mainly, I would go somewhere freindlier.
From my limited experience, having only entered a dozen or so foreign ports, there are no friendly countries when it comes to documents. You have the documents or you don't. Getting a Brazilian document is out of the question until the boat is in Brazilian waters. We would then be required to pay a tax that no one here could even believe.
Gerald

[Tom Hunter]

Hi

If your boat was US Built then she should have a hull number, and it has to be prominently displayed. There are Coast Guard regulations about this, but you may just know where the number is.

If you have the vessel number and a US passport you can document the vessel. The number is more important than the name, thought the name can't hurt.

Documentation takes a while, months last I checked. But I would get started on it. You can also get in touch with the USCG documentation office and explain your issue, they are busy but helpful.

I didn't realize you were sailing around without papers, yes that is an issue.

Good luck

[Gerald]

The boat was French built but has a serial number so armed with that I should be able to start the process. I am still checking into registering the boat in a different country. I have heard that some of the islands could care less and register boats the same as you would register your dog.
BTW the toughest country that I ran into for documents was Aruba. They made us tie to the customs dock and gave us 48 hours to get the hell out. They on the other hand did us a favor. The customs dock had fresh water and nice bathrooms. The yacht club would probably have cost us $100 a day for the same service.
Gerald

[Gary E]

The boat was French built but has a serial number so armed with that I should be able to start the process. I am still checking into registering the boat in a different country. I have heard that some of the islands could care less and register boats the same as you would register your dog.
BTW the toughest country that I ran into for documents was Aruba. They made us tie to the customs dock and gave us 48 hours to get the hell out. They on the other hand did us a favor. The customs dock had fresh water and nice bathrooms. The yacht club would probably have cost us $100 a day for the same service.
Gerald

Starting to sound like it would be a good idea to register it to your home address.

and if you do not have a home address, you can use a office that acts as your agent and they provide an address and ways to get in contact with you.

[kc8pql]

I think you have a problem. You have only a bill of sale from a dead owner who did not provide you with a title. On the face of it, you have no way to prove that the previous owner actually owned the boat or that you didn't steal it and fake the bill of sale. Contact the USCG Doc. center and explain your situation and ask what to do. I think it's going to involve lawyers. I'm also surprised you've gotten as far as you have without papers. You're lucky customs somewhere hasn't impounded the boat rather than just refuse you entry.

[Gary E]

kc
He's from Brasil,,,
Why get the US Coasties involved ?
Maybe the state of TEXAS can provide documents to show the former owner actually owned the boat and that the former owner actually sold it to Gerald

If it were me, I'd try registering it to my home address in Brasil.... problem solved. and if that does not work....I'd find this place


I have heard that some of the islands could care less and register boats the same as you would register your dog.


These are sposed to be very friendly to ...shall we say.... uhh... I wont say...just check it out
http://www.caymanislands.ky/

[Kaa]

You might find this thread -- http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65801 -- which relates to my own experience with documenting a foreign boat in the US -- useful.

Kaa

[Gerald]

Kaa ........... after reading the comments from your thread it makes me think RUN AWAY RUN AWAY! It sounds like Homeless Security has made it difficult to get things done in the US. However, I am not ruling it out as an option.
I found this very interesting .............
#### I have scrapped out hundreds of old woodies, and have saved the titles...I can sell you a clear title for $50####
So lets hear how someone in South Americas bureaucracy could track down the fact that the document was changed, slightly?
I bought a 32 foot wooden boat built in Argentina. The owner, from England, had registered it in England. Clive told me that it was as simple as registering his dog. The catch is that from what I have seen you must be a resident of England.
Gerald

[Gary E]

But the Caman Is people dont care where you are or what you are.

[Kaa]

Kaa ........... after reading the comments from your thread it makes me think RUN AWAY RUN AWAY! It sounds like Homeless Security has made it difficult to get things done in the US. However, I am not ruling it out as an option.

Well, not counting blood, sweat, and tears, it all ended reasonably well.

Thanks to advice from forumites, what I did was go to the State Marine Police and ask for an "inspection" (not a boating safety one). They looked at the boat and gave me a curious little sheet of paper which basically said the boat doesn't look stolen and is not listed as stolen in any databases they checked.

My understanding is that the point of it was to have a piece of paper which said that some random part of government bureaucracy thinks the boat's OK.

Then I went to my local DMV and applied for a title and registration, very carefully avoiding the word "foreign" anywhere -- if they hear this word, you're sent off to the central office which I've already spent several weeks dealing with with zero useful results.

The local DMV ingested the bill of sale and that piece of paper from the marine cops, and in about five minutes gave me a brand new HIN (Hull Identification Number), a title, and a registration. That was it. The key, evidently, was to avoid mentioning anything dealing with the suspicious furriners. There are enough title-less homemade boats sloshing around so that the DMV doesn't care much about legal niceties -- if you don't manage to set off any tripwires, that is :D

All in all, it was an experience I'm in no hurry to repeat, but I do have a valid title/HIN/registration now.

Kaa

[kc8pql]

kc
He's from Brasil,,,
Why get the US Coasties involved ?


He has a US passport, which makes me think he's a US citizen.

[Gerald]

Yes, I am a US citizen. However, I don't live there and haven't been there other than for plane connections for a number of years. I think that I still have all the rights of other US citizens but this day and age I cannot be sure?????
Here in Brasil I have never been ask for my boat documents. However, I was not entering the country from another country. That is where we are being ask for documents. The one that seems most important is the document from your last port. Once you hit a second port in the same country there are no questions ask.
Also staying away from shipping ports is a good idea. They treat you the same as 200 foot ship. Usually means expensive agents.
Gerald

[Gerald]

My associate just emailed this information from Venezuela.
Make of boat Mikado
built 1976
Numbers from a board attached to the head near the stern of the boat ............
N0709429
RT-23 85/100
#963329
The last owner named the boat GodSpeed II. GodSpeed I was a very ugly sail boat manufactured in Florida. Cannot tell you the make but it was butt ugly.
Is there anything I can do with the above info?
Gerald

[willmarsh3]

http://www.iwr.usace.army.mil/NDC/veslchar/veslcharsearch.htm

Click "Search by USCG Official Number" link found in the middle of the page and enter 963329.

This would be the Coast Guard Documentation number.

[Gerald]

Will
Wonderful ............................. It is our boat and it is registered with the USCG. What a weight that has lifted from my shoulders.
Thank you all. The wooden boat forum is the only place that I have found that really cares about helping you.
Thanks again
Gerald

[Gary E]

Thats great that now you know what it is....


Documentation Expiration Date:October 31, 2002

Better get started bringing that up to date...

[kc8pql]

Better get started bringing that up to date...

I agree. Now that you know where to start you need to have ownership transferred to your name and get a current documentation certificate.

[Gerald]

I agree that the boat needs to be transferred ASAP. However, a copy of the information form the USCG files has already satisfied the authorities in Venezuela. Looks like we are out of the woods ....... for now.
Gerald.

[willmarsh3]

I am really glad I could help here. :) Best of luck and keep us posted on your adventures.

[Gary E]

I agree that the boat needs to be transferred ASAP. However, a copy of the information form the USCG files has already satisfied the authorities in Venezuela. Looks like we are out of the woods ....... for now.
Gerald.

That cert is almost 6 yrs old and they dont keep them in the data base forever... so.... git a move on :)
yer gona doit sooner or later...why wait?

[Gerald]

This entire adventure reminds me of chasing the army surplus Harley Davisons. There was no extra special good deal waiting for you to grab. Buying hurricane boats, abandoned boats or boats in far off lands should also be approached with great caution. In December it will be two years since we started this adventure. We paid $40K for the boat and got to Colon Panama to find it on the beach after a very bad storm. We agreed to a reduced price of $20K and set about getting it ready for the trip of 8,000 kilometers. There were issues like the motor laying on its side with salt water in the crankcase etc. Three months in the arm pit of the world and we sailed and motored off too Columbia. One year plus in Columbia the motor and gear box are in new condition. The hull was stripped down and two new coats of glass applied. So we now have $60K in the boat and it has made about 20% of a damn difficult trip. Still cheap for 56 foot boat.
Not to mention that in that time my associate was diagnosed with cancer and operated on. I had two stints inserted in my heart and have a right hand with a stiff index finger, after an accident, in the middle of no where, with the anchor chain.
Gerald