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View Full Version : OK - so what happened to that thread?



The Bigfella
08-24-2008, 04:47 AM
You know - the one about the book - backwoodsmen and all?

Did someone get naughty?

Phillip Allen
08-24-2008, 04:50 AM
which one?

The Bigfella
08-24-2008, 04:54 AM
The one about the Canadian book. ACB posted it. Brian thought it was US bashing - but plenty thought it wasn't.

Tyler came in with a story about speaking at constitutional conventions - which I'd like to hear more about, and hoped he might put up some of his speeches.

He also said he'd taken on the taxman in court and had some wins. I'd like to hear more about how to take on the taxman.

I'm not 100% sure that I want to hear more about his experiences at Waco and Ruby Ridge.

Phillip Allen
08-24-2008, 04:59 AM
I think that was the one I saw as a parallel to the proud to be white thread...the same kind of attack but from a more fashionable side and therefore, tollerated and even encoueraged...got itself snuffed did it?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-24-2008, 05:01 AM
It was never intended as "US-bashing" - hence the title "Do you recognise this place?"

I did seriously want to draw Bob Smalser into commenting at length on his forecast for the US presidential election, but Bob is obviously busy.

Philip and High C decided to turn it into something else, by cross referring to Rum Pirate's obnoxious thread. If they want to do that, they can start their own threads.

And I hope Rum Pirate learns from the example.

The Bigfella
08-24-2008, 05:04 AM
Fair enough.

That RP thread is a stinker.

I'll ask Mark about his experiences later on.

Thanks Andrew

BrianW
08-24-2008, 08:30 AM
Oh, that one. The one were an admittedly extreme view of the US is quoted, then someone is selected, by name in the thread title, to defend against that article.

Yea, I'm glad it's gone. I notice more name dropping given in the reason for it's deletion. Certainly a trend there.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-24-2008, 09:23 AM
First, there is nothing new in putting someone's name in a thread title when you want to draw a person's attention to that thread - this has been going on at least since I joined, and that was in 1998.

Next, you have just reminded me of the rule that one should never try to joke on the Internet - at least one person got the joke, with their comment about something in the water, but it seems you didn't. Bob enjoys the occasional swipe at his neighbours to the North, hence the use of a Canadian book.

You seem to be the only person who thinks I was "bashing" your country. As Oliver Cromwell put it, "I beseech you in the bowels of Christ - consider that you may be mistaken!"

What I was trying to do was to get Bob to set out his thoughts on the election prospects, and I still hope that he may do that. I cited the article because it offered a slightly different "take" on the red/blue divide.

High C
08-24-2008, 09:31 AM
....Philip and High C decided to turn it into something else, by cross referring to Rum Pirate's obnoxious thread....

No, Phillip and High C decided to turn it into what it already was, a thread very much like the one you so decried by Rum Pirate. I thought you must have been trying to make a point by posting a similarly bigoted article not of your own creation, and innocently asking what everyone thought of it. Now I see that not only did you not do it intentionally, you're oblivious of the parallels.

Note that you were not subjected to the sort of personal abuse that was heaped on, mostly by you, Rum Pirate for doing very much the same thing.

Think about it.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-24-2008, 09:35 AM
High C decided to turn it into what it already was,

A very Louisianian sort of project! :D

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-24-2008, 09:40 AM
Another difficulty, which I had not foreseen, is that the term "backwoodsman" has two meanings -

- someone who lives in the backwoods, or the boondocks, etc.

- as a political term of abuse, designating someone who does not keep up with current thought, and who therefore retains out of date views and can be used as lobby fodder by whoever presses his or her hot button - the Religious Right in the USA for example.

The two were getting confused.

LeeG
08-24-2008, 09:52 AM
I could see High/BrianWs point,,except Pirates post and Andrews post were about different things, the style may have seemed similar but the content wasn't.
Calling someone out for verbal battle requires more decorum than we got. I think there's a reasonable protectiveness for one of our own. Bob is coming across more unhinged in the last year for some reason so it's not exactly a conversation the home crowd would relish.

C. Ross
08-24-2008, 09:58 AM
Andrew, I am sure you may have understood that there were a few stereotypes embedded in that article. Perhaps our common language separates us again, this time Englishmen and Americans hobbled by a Canadian translation. No offense intended, but you may not have been aware of the bigoted trash talk embedded in that article. Honestly, I don't think the author himself knew that the words he was choosing were so ill-fitting and vile.

Perhaps the author fancied himself a new Touqueville, illuminating the distinctions between Thomas Jefferson's vision of America as an agricultural Arcadia (by the way, populated mainly by landed gentry with labor tucked away discreetly in nice palladian barracks) and Alexander Hamilton's vision of America as an industrial and mercantile powerhouse (by the way, led by a few elite industrialists with labor crammed into some other colony).

The author deceived himself. It was nothing but typical blathering about "poor white trash" dolled up in spiffy language.

I WOULD like to hear Bob's views on why Sen Obama is just holding even in the polls when by rights and environment he should be doing much better. I WOULD like to hear how this has more dimensions than just race. But that was not the article to illuminate that discussion.

Paul Girouard
08-24-2008, 10:01 AM
Well I'm pissed! I did a long Camber of Commerce post about Whidbey Island thats been "censored" by ABC by deleting his thread.

It's unfair and I demand restitution!

Isn't that how freedom of the press / the 2nd amendment works?

:D Just kidding, well not about the long post , but about being pissed, as in mad for you fur-in ers. Not 'your' pissed which is drunk:rolleyes:

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-24-2008, 10:02 AM
Thanks - well put.

I was not aware of the subtext - as you say - two nations divided by a common language.

Anyway, its gone, and clearly I was right to get rid of it.

I endorse your last paragraph.

Cuyahoga Chuck
08-24-2008, 10:06 AM
No, Phillip and High C decided to turn it into what it already was, a thread very much like the one you so decried by Rum Pirate. I thought you must have been trying to make a point by posting a similarly bigoted article not of your own creation, and innocently asking what everyone thought of it. Now I see that not only did you not do it intentionally, you're oblivious of the parallels.

Note that you were not subjected to the sort of personal abuse that was heaped on, mostly by you, Rum Pirate for doing very much the same thing.

Think about it.


What Rum Pirate posted was an unattributed e-mail with overtones of white supemisist malarkey. And the fact that Rum Pirate wasn't willing to defend it made it look , for all the world, like nothing but a propaganda balloon.
What Andrew posted was an analyisis by someone who was not afraid to attach his name. Whether you like it or not it was the work of someone with an analytical bent.
Even tho' there were items I was willing to dispute I didn't find any of it unfair or disengenuous. After all, I am a citizen of the most muscular country in the world and my country will surely draw fire just because it is so prominent.
The thread got pulled because you butchered it with your usual Neocon , knee-jerk antics.
Believe it or not, there are intelligent people out there who rightly percieve our faults, which have become numerous because of the reign of the Neocon Empire which you have always favored.
If critical words give you a rash you are going to be a hospital case when Bush-Cheney are gone and all the truth will be revealed.
Time wounds all heels.

Phillip Allen
08-24-2008, 10:27 AM
well, there goes the neighborhood ...neocon's ugly twin...a knee-jerk liberal has spoken!

pcford
08-24-2008, 10:31 AM
Isn't it true that Smalser never responded to the thread? Perhaps, for some reason his sensibilities were offended and he went to the authorities? (authority?)

I've noticed that some of our fire-breathing brethren on the right are quick to appeal to a higher authority when they feel that their ox is being gored.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-24-2008, 10:38 AM
I prefer to think that Bob had betterb things to do that sit at his computer!:)

Paul Girouard
08-24-2008, 10:39 AM
Isn't it true that Smalser never responded to the thread? Perhaps, for some reason his sensibilities were offended and he went to the authorities? (authority?)

I've noticed that some of our fire-breathing brethren on the right are quick to appeal to a higher authority when they feel that their ox is being gored.



ACB deleted the thread Pat. Bob's maybe busy I haven't seen a post by him a few days . An he's never been a guy to dodge a fight / thread if he's got a dog in the hunt.

I checked he was around yesterday , at least that's when his 'last activity' was.

pcford
08-24-2008, 10:44 AM
ACB deleted the thread Pat. Bob's maybe busy I haven't seen a post by him a few days . An he's never been a guy to dodge a fight / thread if he's got a dog in the hunt.

Ok, now I see the deletion.

But my note stands in the general body politic about the right running to authorities when things are not going their way....though they tend to deny such controls to others.

I regret the fact that Andrew deleted the thread. It is really an interesting topic....the role of "backwoodsmen" "rustics" or whatever is the right term.

My grandfather and family lived in a log cabin; you could not say that they were poor because that implies having some money. And they had little to none. He was a Republican but of a very different sort than exists today. It is mind boggling to remember that the GOP once had a moderate majority. Stranger still to remember that they instituted some progressive policies in this country. Today, the extreme right has turned the once proud party into a group on the fringe of historical American thought. Rove and his acolytes have used hate to link up an unholy alliance of the religious right, southern rustics, corporate interests together to do their bidding.

I never once heard my grandfather say a bad word about any group...far cry from the Right of today. The leaders of the extreme Right have cynically manipulated the sections of the poor to believe that their interests coincide with the corporate interests. For example, note the manipulation of the religious right; accounts show that Bushco laughed at these people while manipulating their votes.

Paul Girouard
08-24-2008, 10:51 AM
Ok, now I see the deletion.

But my note stands in the general body politic about the right running to authorities when things are not going their way....though they tend to deny such controls to others.



Could be , I seem to see both sides doing it, but maybe your right.

The article ACB posted was , as has been noted , rather one sided, maybe Bob figured it wasn't worth the time. The article had made up it's mind as had the poster about what he wanted to hear.

But then again wasting times what this sections mostly about isn't it:D

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-24-2008, 11:06 AM
No, I hadn't.

At this rate, this thread will be longer than the one I deleted.

Paul Girouard
08-24-2008, 11:13 AM
No, I hadn't.



Generally when people post a link to a article like that they either endorse it , or it would be considered , IMO , a 'troll like' post.

It was a close minded article so one would draw , at least I would , that the OP was also of a similar mind set. YMMV.

Phillip Allen
08-24-2008, 11:17 AM
Generally when people post a link to a article like that they either endorse it , or it would be considered , IMO , a 'troll like' post.

It was a close minded article so one would draw , at least I would , that the OP was also of a similar mind set. YMMV.

no example comes to mind Paul but I can certinly see myself posting an article and asking others for imput without actually endorsing it

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-24-2008, 11:26 AM
Paul, that was why I asked "do you recognise this place?"

Two nations with a common language...

Paul Girouard
08-24-2008, 11:34 AM
Humm hence my us of "generally" and YMMV , Your Mileage May Vary. So yes it is possible , I allowed wiggle room in my post.

ACB's a nice enought bloke so MAYBE it was a honest question/ post / thread. Then again maybe he was intending it as a "slight" troll with a honest 'twist of the knife'.

Paul Girouard
08-24-2008, 11:36 AM
Paul, that was why I asked "do you recognise this place?"



And NO I didn't , that article did not represent the USA I know. It may represent your view of the USA , but then that's mainly hear say as I do not think you live here.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-24-2008, 11:47 AM
I have not lived in the States since Raygun's day.:D

LeeG
08-24-2008, 11:50 AM
people are older and younger since then.

Paul Pless
08-24-2008, 12:47 PM
Ok, now I see the deletion.

But my note stands in the general body politic about the right running to authorities when things are not going their way....though they tend to deny such controls to others.'the right'?that's laughable, you mean all five of us here???

Cuyahoga Chuck
08-24-2008, 01:05 PM
'the right'?that's laughable, you mean all five of us here???

Well spoken,Paul.
I have noticed that over my tenure here the the targets are fewer, indeed, and often foolishly expose themselves like shooting gallery ducks all pointed in the same ever-rightward direction.

pcford
08-24-2008, 01:21 PM
'the right'?that's laughable, you mean all five of us here???

No. In society at large....

As to the number of rightward leaning here....well, as hard to believe as it is, 25% of Americans still think W is doing a fine job.

I don't know what would make them change their minds after all he has done. Come in their homes and flog them?

Phillip Allen
08-24-2008, 01:31 PM
divide the total membership here by four and you get the number of right leaning fourmites...

sorry...had to edit...my fingers outran my thinking...again [or is that backwards...now my head hurts]

Lew Barrett
08-24-2008, 03:13 PM
'the right'?that's laughable, you mean all five of us here???

There's way more than five, but you do run a broad swath from Abby and elesius (sometimes I think they're the same guy), erster and jbelow, to Cris Ross, the other Paul Girouard, Rick Tyler and I think yerself as more centrist right wingers. In between, my goodness, how could so many people who like wooden boats and working at honest labor possibly have voted for that man and his veep? Oh the humanity!

I don't have to tell you that I care deeply for you Paul, and the other Paul, both of you beer drinking pals, except that Paul G doesn't drink and I prefer Dark and Stormys!

I miss the thread in large measure because of Paul's G's comment regarding Dead Goat Road. He has to promise to use it again someplace where it won't go away!
The measure of the difference between the two threads, that is the turd thread and the poof thread, is the fact that the poof thread is gone, whereas the turd thread continues to stink up the room.

BrianW
08-25-2008, 01:16 AM
Next, you have just reminded me of the rule that one should never try to joke on the Internet...

Andrew,

I didn't realize that it was meant as a joke between old friends, and therefore I apologize for my response.

I guess I was correct in thinking you were above simple trolling, and will try harder to interpret your humor in the future.

Edit to add... I didn't read the Rum Pirate thread, past the first couple entries. So I missed any obvious connection.

Wild Dingo
08-25-2008, 07:15 AM
No, I hadn't.

At this rate, this thread will be longer than the one I deleted.

:D:D Sorry for the wee maniacal giggle from downunder... but THAT is funny! :D

Phillip Allen
08-25-2008, 07:17 AM
:D:D Sorry for the wee maniacal giggle from downunder... but THAT is funny! :D

what r you doing up so late Shane? (it's not healthy for a man of your advanced years...:)

The Bigfella
08-25-2008, 08:09 AM
Late? Its only 9pm over there

Phillip Allen
08-25-2008, 08:26 AM
ain't that pretty late for old guys? (with red eyes)

The Bigfella
08-25-2008, 08:31 AM
Yeah - its 11:30pm now over here on the east coast. Time to go do a sudoku and push out some zzzzzz's