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stevenj
12-10-2003, 05:30 PM
i'm getting ready to order the fasteners for my first boat building project, Gardner's 14' flatiron.

Gardner calls for bronze screws in the plans. My pocket book is more inclined to purchase bronze ring nails.....

So what's a guy on a limited budget to do? Could one substitute nails for screws entirely, and still end up with a boat that won't fall to pieces? Or comprimise, and use screws in only the most critical areas?

regards,
stevenj

Tonyr
12-10-2003, 05:51 PM
The great merit of screws is that a person can back them out as easily as he put them in. You can't say the same for ring nails. If you really are SURE that you won't ever make a mistake, then ring nails would be cheaper (perhaps). Personally, I do like the sheer controllability of screws, as compared to nails.

Tony.

Venchka
12-10-2003, 05:53 PM
Looking at the Hamilton Marine catalog...

#10x1-3/4" square drive bronze screws are $20.00.
Bronze ring nails are $6.00 per pound.

Hmmmmmmmmm...

Bob Smalser
12-10-2003, 06:00 PM
I've done boats that size using both...and plain old common nails, too...using either fastener the mating parts have to be clamped before driving and pilot holes done. And I haven't found one fastener holds less or better than the other, either, if it was installed correctly.

The difference is at repair time...and that boat will surely have to be repaired one day...the screws are easier and less damaging to remove.

But before deciding, pull up the thread on slotted vs phillips and square-drive screws....there's evidence that old slotted screws are easier to remove.

[ 12-10-2003, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

gary porter
12-10-2003, 06:54 PM
Steven, what part of the boat do you plan to use these fasteners for? Will these be surfaces that are glued or epoxied as well? It might be such that for some parts you can use the nails while screws will clearly be better for others. Planks for instance, I'd definately use screws while other parts perhaps not. Like Bob said its a good thing to drill a pilot hole even for small nails and especailly the small ringshanked silicon bronze nails, they bend and then break easily. Gardner probably had a reason for specifying screws and on a 14' boat you'll probably survive the cost.
Gary

Bill Perkins
12-10-2003, 08:01 PM
Stevenj ; I remember Gardener writing (long ago ) that the cost of bronze screws had risen so steeply he no longer recommended them .I gather that the cost of copper based alloys has risen far more than the inflation rate .The decision made when he wrote what you read was made in a different environment .I don't think he would now recomend them for such a simple sturdy boat .I used bronze ring nails for my boat, with epoxy resin .

[ 12-10-2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

stevenj
12-10-2003, 09:11 PM
the flatiron is all ply(sides and bottom), leave the frames, so no planking involved. All the areas where wood meets wood will be glued with epoxy as well as having some sort of mech. fastener. I'm not planning on encapsulating, rather going for the red lead primer and kirby paint.

I was planning on using nails as much as possible.

here are all of the area's that will have mech. fasteners and which type screw/nail i plan on using:
sides to stem nail
sides to transom nail
frame gussets screw
side to chine strip nail
bottom to chine strip nail
bottom to frames nail
oak shoe/skegs screw

the oak shoe 'caps' the perimeter of the bottom, so imagine the bottom nailed to the chine stip, capped with the shoe screwed into the chine. The skegs will be screwed from the inside of the hull.

regarding the shoe and skegs, initially I was going to epoxy them, but they are likely to be damaged sometime, might white lead bedding compound be a better choice? (i think i may have answered my own question, but comments please)

regards,
stevenj

Dan Cavins
12-10-2003, 09:33 PM
Hey Stevenj, just a thought. I was about to use ring nails on part of my boat and did some testing. One thing to consider is that you have to give those things a pretty good whacking. I felt funny about the force being used at these spots. Also more chance of damage to the piece with the hammer. Now maybe the problem there is that I'm a bit of a hack, but still... I went wtih the screws. Now I will add that I used ring nails in my kayak. I had the advantage of total ignorance back then and it worked quite well I have to say. Not sure I'd do it again though. Good luck, Dan.

Walcheren
12-10-2003, 10:16 PM
I am presently repairing a 16 foot Commet. This is lapstrake plywood construction. She was put together with bronze nails and screws. The slippers, the slats on each side of the keel, were screwed with bronze screws, #8 1". The reason for the repair was a cracked keelson and keel under were the mast step was supposed to be. Consequently also the centre board casing got dislodged. So the whole thing leaked like sive,literally. What needed to be done was replace a 6 foot piece of keel and keelson, install a new centreboard case and make a proper mast step. The owner heard I would be interested in fixing a boat this winter instead of building a new one so she gave the thing to me, including sails and hardware, as she was going to throw her in the dump. Anyway. Here is what I learned. Getting ringnails out is a bugger. Sometimes they do come out, but mostly I ground them off. In the process they got hot enough to soften the wood so I could pull some out or I left the pieces in. Whatever bronze screws I found they were in terrible shape. Some broke off and showed about 1 mm of real metal left!! In the past I have never used nails. The whole thing of hammering in a boat is against my nature maybe. Also I can not visualise me taking a plank out that is nailed without doing major damage to other planks and frames. Once you put a nail in that's it. With screws youn can try a fit, take it apart and put it together again. It would make a real mess if it was nailed. So I have put screws in wherever I could. Bronze or stainless steel? I went for s.s as it was cheaper and much easier to get here especially if you want a dozen of 3" #12 or so. In my Panza are at least 1400 1" 8 SS screws, $35 a 1000. They will last a lifetime, that is my lifetime. One also need to remember where the boat is going to be, 365 days in salt water, or a few weekends in the lake.

Jon Etheredge
12-10-2003, 10:33 PM
All the areas where wood meets wood will be glued with epoxy as well as having some sort of mech. fastener. I'm not planning on encapsulating, rather going for the red lead primer and kirby paint.
The belt and suspenders approach of mechanical fasteners and epoxy isn't really needed. The epoxy alone will be sufficient if you have enough clamps to hold joints together till the epoxy sets. If you don't have enough clamps then bronze ring nails will do a great job of holding things in place until the goo kicks.

BTW, somebody did some tests a number of years ago that showed the withdrawal strength of ring nails goes up dramatically if you drill a pilot hole slightly smaller than the root diameter if the nail.

The "no encapsulation" plan will make for a much more pleasant building environment. You might also want to forego the red lead primer. IMO, there won't be any benefit to using it in this application. Instead, I'd go with thinned topcoats as a primer or a sanding/sealer.

Bruce Hooke
12-10-2003, 10:48 PM
Given that everything is going to be epoxied together, the fasteners are basically there just to hold things in place until the glue sets and then just as a mostly irrelavant back up to the glue (except possibly in a few highly stressed areas like around the stem). You could probably get away with just putting in temporary fastenings, such as cheap drywall screws, while the glue sets, and then taking them out afterwards and filling the holes. You can certainly use this technique if you find in the middle of a glue-up that you need a bit more pressure in one area. Just remember to still drill a pilot hole to avoid having a screw twist off (break) as you are driving it. If the screw does not want to come out later a little heat applied to the head with a soldering iron should heat up the epoxy enough to let it loose. Also, if you are planning to remove a screw do it the next day rather than a week later, because epoxy gets harder in the week or two after it's applied.

As far as repairs go, since everything will be epoxied anyway it won't matter that much if the fasteners are hard to remove because repairs will be more of a "cut the bad stuff out and splice in new" type job as opposed to pulling out fastnerers and neatly removing a part.

Screws do have some advantages that may matter in certain places -- they can pull something down into place much more effectively than a nail, they have more holding power than a nail (although a clenched nail probably comes pretty close), and driving them does not require pounding.

As to the skeg, your approach sounds good to me except that I would use one of the new bedding compounds in a tube rather than tracking down and messing around with lead. The new stuff works just fine for things like this and it is both easier to find and less likely to do damage to your health than lead.

[ 12-10-2003, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Hooke ]

Walcheren
12-11-2003, 12:00 AM
I see the point that if epoxied together you don't need much else and then taking things apart without damage is out if the question. I guess I have not used enough epoxy, yet?

stevenj
12-11-2003, 10:14 AM
hmmm, sounds like I could get away with no permenent mech fasteners??? Maybe, but the seams don't have an epoxy fillet or FG tape...

I think i'm going to stick with my plan of using nails, with pilot holes, and screws for the shoes and skegs....

I suppose reducing the lead risk is a good idea, but for some reason doing it like the old' timers is appealing. I'll go with 3M 4200 for bedding of shoes and skegs, that way there will be a hope of getting them off.....

thanks for all the help

stevenj

Venchka
12-11-2003, 10:47 AM
It was a slow re-run night on tv so I dug out The Dory Book. 14'-4 1/2" Flatiron skiff, chapter near the end of the book, right? John Gardner, you have to love him, gives two pages of drawings. They may as well be two different boats. Plank bottom and transom on one page and all plywood on the other. But the question is about screws vs. nails...

He calls for galvanized screws on one page, bronze screws in one place on the other page and mostly he doesn't say what metal to use. I agree, if he were around today $20/100 screws would stick in his craw. On the other hand, I think he would opt for screws over nails. Just a guess, but he really did favor screws. Of course, with epoxy, you could use temporary drywall screws in a lot of places-like the plywood gussets on the frames. Take them out and fill the holes with epoxy.

Bottom line, using screws probably won't add $25 to the boat.

Bob Smalser
12-11-2003, 01:08 PM
He calls for galvanized screws on one page, bronze screws in one place on the other page and mostly he doesn't say what metal to use. I agree, if he were around today $20/100 screws would stick in his craw. On the other hand, I think he would opt for screws over nails. Just a guess, but he really did favor screws.
Gardener's crusty humanity has always made him my favorite, by far.

Personally, I'd do a solid plank, caulked bottom out of pine or cedar...maybe with W Oak or DF bottom runners....be a lot easier to repair thirty years from now if it wears thru on rock bottoms...I always like to have an eye for the kid who might want to save one of my derelicts one day, and try to give him the best chance at it.

You can do a tapered-crossplank drive fit, too and omit the caulking seams...but M/C needs to be at 20pct or so...if too low, the bottom can buckle when it swells.

[ 12-11-2003, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

Venchka
12-11-2003, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by Bob Smalser:
Gardener's crusty humanity has always made him my favorite, by far.
Mine too if you hadn't noticed. Since the day I got a first edition of "The Dory Book" from the local libary way back when. A book they no longer have, by the way. Not me, somebody else got it or they threw it out for lack of use.

Add Sam Manning to my short list of favorite people too. Enough digressing.

stevenj
12-12-2003, 10:01 AM
They may as well be two different boats yeah, being a novice, i didn't pickup on that right away, eventually i did pick up on it though.
I thought about going with the planked bottom, but was unsure about getting the planks watertight. Gardner didn't mention caulking, or glueing the bottom planks on this particular boat. And since the boat will be out of the water most of the time, the wood would not stay swelled tight. Thus, I was planning on going with the ply bottom.

Could I get some explaination on this:

You can do a tapered-crossplank drive fit, too and omit the caulking seams...but M/C needs to be at 20pct or so...if too low, the bottom can buckle when it swells. what is M/C and 20pct?

So the bottom can be planked without caulking? do you glue between the seams?

thanks guys,
stevenj

Venchka
12-12-2003, 10:20 AM
I should let Bob explain...

M/C = Moisture Content, 20%

The construction chapters of the The Dory Book explain the bottom construction. The Flatiron's bottom is essentially a dory bottom. I'll let Bob explain the cross planked variation. I've seen photos but can't remember where.

One thing to note: The outside oak shoes running lengthwise along the chine-make sure that the inboard edge (after it makes the turn aft of the bow) is dead straight and parallel to the centerline of the boat. If there is any curve along the inboard edge in those shoes toward the transom they will act like brakes in the water. Gardner explains that better and Sam Manning illustrates it better than I can type it.

Bob Smalser
12-12-2003, 01:51 PM
Steven,

I only mentioned a planked bottom with an eye toward repairing the boat long in the future. With a ply bottom you will want to tape and glass the seams for watertightness...replacing that bottom one day will be difficult without damaging the sides.

A solid cross-planked bottom for a flatbottomed rowboat is traditional and easy to repair...even with plywood sides and transom. When the time comes, the bottom planks are pried off and the nailholes in the ply filled with thickened epoxy and redrilled when the new planking is applied.

With accurate 90-degree jointed edges, the bottom is planked alternately from bow and stern...leaving a gap in the middle wide enuf for three planks. The center and inside edges of those three planks (cut overlong) are tapered a bit on the tablesaw and tapering jig. The outer two planks are mounted and the inner tapered plank is driven home with a mallet...this tightens them all up....then all the planking nails or screws are countersunk a bit to ameliorate the new stresses provided by the driven plank and the holes puttied.

Give yourself enuf width on those three planks to play with and dryfit them first...you may have to play with the taper a little bit to get a perfect driven fit. Formulas in books I've seen on this are too hard and make my head hurt...dryfit the planks, eyeball any gaps, and adjust fit accordingly.

And if I were using screws instead of nails, I could consider doing the driven-plank trick twice instead of once in the planking sequence...about the third of the way from either end...screwed planks likely won't move sideways as easily. We nailed all ours with common hot-dipped galvanized nails from the hardware store.

With solid sides, I like to plane a caulking bevel in the side-bottom faying or contact surface...the bevel planed into the side plank...and caulk with cotton. I've never used much plywood, so others jump in, but we didn't routinely caulk this joint as I recall from the past, often merely laying the planks down in a bed of white lead. Today I believe you could lay them in polysulfide seam compound applied to the plywood edge...and without a caulking bevel drive some loose caulking cotton into any gaps before painting for a fit that will take up well once wet. I don't think I'd try to plane a caulking bevel in plywood...moreover, as that edge needs to be protected from moisture, using a solid plank bottom, I'd consider sealing those plywood edges with epoxy, first.

Many builders, as I recall, often left the plank ends square rather than beveled to match the sides, as a method of protecting this joint from rocks and stumps.

We probably did 20 of these utility boats when I was a kid out of No 2 common airdried pine. If you buy kiln-dried pine or cedar bottom planking, merely stack and sticker it outside under cover for a few weeks before using to raise the M/C to the surrounding air. If you drive a tight fit with kilndried stock, it may expand across it's width too much when it hits the water and pop a fastening.

...and a well-chosen choice for a first project.

PS...if I were gonna use screws anywhere...it would surely be here:



sides to stem nail

sides to transom nail
But if it were me, I wouldn't epoxy much of anything except for any scarfs...unless it's a monocoque plywood and glass structure...and your design is traditional frame construction...either the epoxy or the fasteners are expensive overkill...and fasteners are easier to repair when the time comes.

[ 12-12-2003, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

Jon Etheredge
12-12-2003, 03:52 PM
I thought about going with the planked bottom, but was unsure about getting the planks watertight. Gardner didn't mention caulking, or glueing the bottom planks on this particular boat.
Bob Smalzer has given an excellent explanation of doing a wedged, cross-planked bottom on a skiff. I think Steven is looking at a boat that is built like a dory though. That means the bottom is built first with longitudinal planks fastened to cleats on the inside face. Then the side planks are added next. This is a fundamentally different method of building than what Bob is talking about.

The dory bottom is usually caulked with a strand of cotton that is rolled in after the boat is completely planked. To do this, you need to plane a caulking seam on the edge of the plank. You could use a caulking iron to drive the caulking but a roller is less risky. After caulking, you can pay (fill) the seams with oil-based seam compound or you can use something like 3M101 out of a tube. BTW, the cotton caulking is a good idea even if you use a modern, synthetic goop in the seams.

I wouldn't recommend glueing solid wood bottom planks together. You might get away with it in a boat that is stored out of water but I think you run a high risk of damaged planks due to normal shrinking and swelling of the planks.

I don't think that a dory bottom caulked in the traditional manner would give you any problems with leaking as long as you didn't leave it in the water more than 10 or 12 hours (maybe as much as a day or so) at a stretch. IMO, a caulked bottom would give you fewer problems with leaking than a wedged or tight fitted bottom in a boat kept out of the water.

If you want to build a skiff with a cross planked bottom rather than a longitudinally planked bottom, you might look at one of these designs:
</font> Susan skiff (http://www.dngoodchild.com/7802.htm) designed by Robert Steward. The Apprenticeshop (http://www.apprenticeshop.com/apprenticeshop/apprenticeshop.html) used to have a very nice manual about building the Susan Skiff.</font> Southard or Westport skiff (http://www.by-the-sea.com/bakerboatworks/index.html) drawn by R.H. (Bob) Baker. There are also the "sharpie" versions of these boats if you want to sail as well as row.</font> Uncle Gabe's Skiff from "Boatbuilding in Your Own Backyard" by Sam Rabl (you can probably find a copy in your local library).</font> One of the Atkin Designs like Nina (http://www.by-the-sea.com/atkin&co/atnina.html).
</font>The Bob Baker skiffs and the Rabl skiffs can be built using very traditional methods where you only have a center mold, no strongback, etc. There are lots of others out there besides these.

Bruce Hooke
12-12-2003, 04:36 PM
While a planked bottom (i.e., solid wood -- either cross-planked or lengthwise dory style) is nice in some ways, for a boat that will live on a trailer I think plywood is probably the better way to go. The drying affect of going down the highway at 65 mph is quite significant, and the result is likely to be a boat that leaks quite a bit for the first few hours after it is launched. It might work as long as the boat is NEVER left in the water for more than a few hours, but the first time it is, or the first time some rain gets inside and sits there for a few days, the planks will swell and develop compression set and then when they dry out there will be gaps that will only close once the boat has been in the water for a while. "Compression set" describes the effect whereby once wood is crushed a certain amount it won't spring back. So, if wood wants to swell and is prevented from doing so by the adjacent planks then it will crush a little along the edges and this crushing will not go away once the planks dry out.

It is true that dories were designed to be stored out of the water on the deck of a fishing schooner and only launched as needed, so they are better than other designs at withstanding wetting and drying, but I stil think trailering would be pushing one's luck.

Plywood that is epoxied down and coated in epoxy can be replaced, the techniques just tend a bit more towards cutting and grinding, as opposed to removing fastenings and prying! True, the former can be a somewhat messy unpleasant job, but then working with epoxy can be messy and unpleasant in general! :D

I think it's also worth remembering that a skiff stored on a trailer and used on the weekends is likely to wear out its bottom MUCH more slowly than a work-skiff used heavily on a daily basis.

Bob Smalser
12-12-2003, 06:33 PM
Bruce makes an excellent point if this is gonna be a trailer boat...the work boats we built and I still have sit in the water year round except for the occasional few weeks of ice.

Frank E. Price
12-12-2003, 07:41 PM
A 14' flat bottom boat is not a big deal, even first time. Only thing you can count on is that you will do things different second and third times around no matter how much advice you get. Just build the boat like the designer says. Plank bottom if the boat lives in the water, ply if it lives on a trailer.

My own 18' sharpy skiff (flatiron) is built with galvanized common and box nails, clenched where possible, and bottom is caulked. Used fourth rate wood because that's what I could get at the time. Works fine. Don't sweat it. Just do it. If you don't like how it comes out, build another.

By the way, in my own opinion the quality of the wood (not species, but quality of boards) is much more important than the fastenings. And forget the glue in a planked boat.

Frank

jwaldin
12-12-2003, 10:11 PM
We're talking about a 14 foot skiff!!!!!!!!!!!
Ring nails are crap. They don't hold that's the reality. If you cann't afford to use ss screws or BS screws stop the project and save up!

stevenj
12-17-2003, 12:49 PM
I appreciate everyone's help on this. I've ordered all the fastners and epoxy I need, as well as the oarlocks and sockets. I also got a large roll of paper to lay out the lines, should be getting the wood for the frames and strongback this weekend.

I'm building a boat!!!!

thanks,
stevenj

PS - JW, I can see from your post your an all or nothing type of guy.... tongue.gif

[ 12-17-2003, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: stevenj ]

Venchka
12-17-2003, 03:09 PM
Good job!

Good save! ;)

I was nosing through my pile of John G. books last night and uses nails in several designs. Like Bill Murray said, "It just doesn't matter!"

jwaldin
12-17-2003, 03:23 PM
Yup.
In the early 70's some mates and I built six 23' Gardner designed sailing dorys with all traditionl materials. Egyptian cotton sails, square boat nails, hemp lines, sitka spruce masts 1" yellow cedar bottoms, clear 3/4" red cedar one piece planking etc. We hired a journeyman joiner just to do the turtle back.To build a solid boat that will last one has to be an all or nothing kind of guy. It takes just as long to do a poor job (ie. using ring nails)as it takes to do a good one I think. Cheap materials and boats don't mix.
Like Venchka says using screws won't add too much to your expenses.
Remember 'measure twice cut once'.
Best of the season to you and yours.

donald branscom
01-12-2010, 05:39 PM
i'm getting ready to order the fasteners for my first boat building project, Gardner's 14' flatiron.

Gardner calls for bronze screws in the plans. My pocket book is more inclined to purchase bronze ring nails.....

So what's a guy on a limited budget to do? Could one substitute nails for screws entirely, and still end up with a boat that won't fall to pieces? Or comprimise, and use screws in only the most critical areas?

regards,
stevenj

Have you ever tried to remove a ringed nail???

That is your answer. Just use the ringed nails or try to get one out of a piece of wood.
You will have no doubts.

Stan D
01-13-2010, 04:34 PM
Do you realize that you've bumped a thread that nobody has posted anything in over 6 years?

Robert L.
01-13-2010, 10:55 PM
But it was interesting, informative and not contentious. Did he ever build the boat?

Stan D
01-14-2010, 08:43 AM
All true, and an excellent question. Not likely to get an answer, though. The originator hasn't checked in since Aug. 09.

stevenj
06-01-2010, 08:35 PM
But it was interesting, informative and not contentious. Did he ever build the boat?

yep

stevenj
06-01-2010, 08:39 PM
All true, and an excellent question. Not likely to get an answer, though. The originator hasn't checked in since Aug. 09.

more likely than you might think :)

Actually, I'm painting it now, outside is done, doing the inside next week. I put the hitch on the van, Trailer is ordered (and paid for) and picking up sometime this week. Cleats and other hardware was ordered 3 days ago and should be here anytime! I actually got the boat titled and registered today!

I'll get pics up soon.

Stevenj

StevenBauer
06-01-2010, 08:56 PM
But did you use screws or nails?


;)



Steven

pcford
06-01-2010, 10:16 PM
But before deciding, pull up the thread on slotted vs phillips and square-drive screws....there's evidence that old slotted screws are easier to remove.



You are quite the comedian, Bob.

Sailor
06-02-2010, 09:22 AM
Yeah, screws or nails?

stevenj
06-19-2010, 07:12 PM
Update:

I got the boat on the trailer today and the engine mounted. Tomorrow is the maiden voyage!

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww154/lowpine_photos/Gardner%20Flatiron%20144%20Skiff/P1030914.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww154/lowpine_photos/Gardner%20Flatiron%20144%20Skiff/P1030916.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww154/lowpine_photos/Gardner%20Flatiron%20144%20Skiff/P1030917.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww154/lowpine_photos/Gardner%20Flatiron%20144%20Skiff/P1030915.jpg

Oh, I used both screws and nails! Screws on the bottom and sides at the bowstem and transom, and on the gunwales, nails everywhere else.

Steve

GBVT
06-19-2010, 08:45 PM
I happen to love building with ring nails. Drill, wham, stuck together. I find it satisfying. Yea I know miserable to repair but I've only built little ply boats in the quick patch repair or replace boat entirely category.

wizbang 13
06-19-2010, 10:20 PM
You can lift that outboard probably 6"

P.L.Lenihan
06-20-2010, 02:09 AM
The biggest advantage for screws is they do allow a solo builder to do a complete dry fitting before, to check all is perfect, and then go to it with the glue of choice afterward.

Very nice job Steve! Looking forward to reading about her on the water performance reports with lots of nice pictures too!!

oh, Roberston drive is the way to go....................:)



Cheers!


Peter

stevenj
06-20-2010, 10:53 AM
You can lift that outboard probably 6"

nope, the cavitation plate could come up about an inch or so. It's the angle of the shot that makes it look low.

stevenj
06-20-2010, 10:55 AM
Very nice job Steve! Looking forward to reading about her on the water performance reports with lots of nice pictures too!!
Cheers!


Peter

Thanks Peter! I think she looks pretty good too. I'm off to the ramp for the maiden voyage. Once I have the on-the-water pics, I'll start a proper launching thread.

steve

stevenj
06-20-2010, 09:34 PM
launch pics at http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=2633763#post2633763

Bob Smalser
06-20-2010, 09:57 PM
Nice job.

And no worries about nails. Providing they are bronze it's a small matter to apply mallet and/or prybar to loosen the board, then slip a hacksaw blade or side cutter in the gap to cut the nails.

After the board is removed, the head stubs are driven out with a punch (or the holes plugged if the heads pull thru) and the point stubs driven flush and left in the wood. Once you get the hang of it, it's an easier removal than boards where 10% of the screw heads go bugger on you.

P.L.Lenihan
06-21-2010, 12:51 AM
and the screw heads won't go bugger on you, if you go with Robertson(square) drive. Just a thought, you know..........:)


Cheers!

Peter

Soundman67
06-22-2010, 04:58 PM
Actually I am getting worried about "square drive" instead of Robertson. I am getting alot of trouble lately with the square drive bits not fitting the square drive screws properly. If I go to a fastener specialist and get Robertson screws and driver bits I have no trouble at all. The square drive just wont stay on the bit the way they are supposed to.
This is so far only on screws from the Borg. I am not sure about from other big box stores.
For Blue Eagle I am only using Robertson screws and bits just to avoid any of the problems I have seen with other projects.

Doug