Dimensional Lumber

[clancyb]

Okay, you guys helped me out with the plywood, let's take a look at the dimensional lumber. I'm planning to build Arch Davis's Jiffy V-22. I need approx. 100 bd-ft of 1 in lumber and 500 bd-ft of 2 in.(I think).

Here are three choices(add more if you feel like it).

I can get white oak locally(and probably very inexpensively) from my local forester buddy. Apparently it doesn't glue well unless you wipe it down w/ acetone or mineral spirits. Is it as rot resistant as other boatbuilding woods? Should I use it some places, and not others?

The other 2 choices seem to be douglas fir and honduras mahogany. What's your opinion on these. I'd also love to know a really rough cost of these woods in the amounts listed above.

Thanks again for any advice.

clancy

http://www.by-the-sea.com/archdavisdesign/davis_jiffyv22.html

[Tom Lathrop]

All are reasonable choices. If you can get white oak cheap, that is a good choice. Mahogany and doug fir will probably be about the same cost, something like $4/bf. You may be able to reduce the scantlings a bit if you use the oak. Ask Arch Davis about this.

The Jiffy V22 looks like a really nice project. Try to keep the weight down (avoid overbuilding) and it should perform nicely. The 75 & 90hp four stroke engines should drive it very well. These use the same powerhead and will give nearly the same performance except that the higher power models will be faster at the top end. The 40hp which he lists as the low power option may not plane a loaded V22 very well.

[jeff pierce]

I vote for the white oak. Strong and rot resistant. Around here, you'd be hard pressed to find Honduran for $4/bd-ft. Around $6 is more the norm. (On the other hand, in the smaller sizes I need, I've had good luck with free donations of reclaimed stuff. I've even got a batch that was reclaimed baseboard from the Ralph Lauren store in Bloomingdales in NYC)

Good luck on your project.

[B.Marks]

White oak would be good choice provided it is dry, you might think about using resourcinal(sp?) for glue. Do keep Tom's recommendations in mind, in terms of weight. Mahogany or fir are available in longer lengths which might help in some parts of the boat chines etc. White oak 4/4 from a local supplier currently around $2.40 bdft, mahogany running close to $6.00.
Saw your earlier post on plywoods, use the best you can afford, the amount of labour you will be putting into the project will go way beyond the cost of materials. I would stay away from fir.
Good Luck.

[Tom Lathrop]

Like Jeff, I try to get wood from free sources when it becomes available. If you have tools to work it, people often just want to get rid of a tree or log or whatever. When I need to buy and need enough to warrant the 250 mile trip, I go to Steve Wall Lumber Co in Madison, NC.

www.walllumber.com (http://www.walllumber.com)

They have a good stock, are easy to deal with and ship all over the country. They don't stock fir but the prices I gave are from them.

[clancyb]

Thanks - I'll use oak wherever I can.

I keep going back and forth on the plywood. The exterior of the hull is glassed in 6oz cloth which I imagine will stop the checking. The interior is just coated with epoxy. I suppose I could glass that too, but that would add some weight.

Or, since the hull is 3/8 in ply covered with 1/4 in ply, I could use okoume on the interior layer and fir on the outside. I don't know.

[Art Read]

You know, it's amazing the difference in board foot prices for various woods in different parts of the country. The only thing I've found consistant is that what ever wood I decide to use ain't cheap HERE! I can remember agonising over "pulling the trigger" and buying stuff that cost a LOT more than I'd hoped/expected, and feeling some real pangs of "buyer's remorse" as I drove away from the lumber yard. But after working with it, fitting it to the boat and finishing it, the cost was pretty much forgotten. The nice thing is that was usually a long enough time between purchases that I was able to spread out the expendures and not feel the pain all at once. I supose it's harder when you've got to buy a whole boat's worth of marine plywood in one, fell swoop... Same thing with bronze fittings. I've slowly been collecting them ever since I got the plans, and there's been enough good deals found in the back rooms of marine consignment stores and swap meets to help soften the blow of the bits I've had to pay full ($$$) retail for. The mistake I made was in not buying my "consumables" like chip brushes, goops, and abrasives in bulk. They'll nickle and dime you to death if you keep buying 'em retail as you need 'em. Fasteners too, though you can do a little better by just buying 100 lot boxes at a time. Buying enough bronze screws and bolts for the whole boat at once is a pretty scary scenario!

Bottom line, it's easy to let yourself "justify" various, little cost cutting measures early in the project when the whole, huge job lies ahead of you. But you'll never regret having gone with the best months or years after the money is long since spent and the boat is really starting to come together. But you'll ALWAYS find yourself scowling when your eye catches something you know isn't quite the "thing" after it's too late. Just wait 'till she's afloat to tally up all your receipts! ;)

[Bob Cleek]

Just a comment.... sound's like your boat was designed for dimensioned lumber (e.g.: 2x4's that are 1 3/4" x 3 1/2", etc.) so maybe it isn't going to be a problem, but... I've never seen a boat that could really be built out of "dimensioned" (store boughten) lumber. In any event, even if you are looking for stock dimension material, my hunch is that you will find good wood at much lower prices "rough cut" rather than finish milled to dimension. The cost of a "lunch box" thickness planer will be very quickly amortized if you can go with rough cut stock... and, you can turn it out whatever size you need.

[B.Marks]

Art's last paragraph is great and right to the point. Enough said. Guess the coffee had not quite kicked in this morning, my comment about fir was directed towards fir plywood. Do what makes sense, build the boat!

[clancyb]

Thanks Bob, I've been trying to figure out how to jusfiy a thickness planer. I just hope SWMBO believes that it actually saves me money. Are thosre new Delta ones the way to go?

About half the measurements are for "dimensioned" lumber. I was thinking that I would just rip "measured" lumber down to size on the table saw.

[clancyb]

Oh, one other thing to everyone out there: If you were building this boat, what kind of plywood would you use?

[Art Read]

Clancy... Just want to clarify... My remarks were not meant for you specifically. Just a general "muse" that this, and some other, similar threads brought to mind. I remember very well how hard it is to decide what's "best". (and it ain't always what's most expensive...) Sounds like your trying to do the same thing...

As to what kind of plywood to use... Now THAT's a tough question! A lot of conflicting advice/information out there. Fir is supposedly the most rot resistant, but it's heavy and it checks. Okume is lightest, and doesn't check but is least "durable". Meranti supposedly is a "compromise" between the two, but I've heard people claim it tends to suffer delamination occasionally. (Others swear by it though!) I'm sure somebody will come on here and tell you I've got it all bass akwards. And I very well might! Got a headache yet? ;)

I wound up going with Sapele for my ply subdeck. Seemed to have the best combination of duribility, strength, weight and finish for my purposes. But that was a pretty "subjective" decision. Almost "einey, miney, moe..." And it didn't hurt that I could pick some up myself locally.

(I've been pretty satisfied with my little, Delta 12 1/2... It isn't made for building schooners, or doing full time, production work perhaps, but it's put up with the abuse I've given it building my little daysailor over the past three years. Best money I ever spent on any single power tool.)

[ 05-16-2002, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: Art Read ]

[clancyb]

Well, I guess I scared everyone away. I'm probably just going to go with the fir like Arch Davis recommends.