Brockway skiff in Florida

[Skiffboy]

Hi,
thats my first thread in this forum!
My Name is Fabian, and i felt in love, after i've seen my first Time a Brockway Skiff.

I found out, there is no one building those Boats in Florida.
I am a carpenter from Germany, and went to school for carpentry and roofing! But a boat is something special, i have fun building it.
And there are so many diverent kinds of boats! Awesome!!!!
Now i did my first one :D ! And it looks graet!!

Just needs Paint ...Perfection Paint in Lauderdale Blue and white Trim.......done!!!!

Next Boat lol!!!!!:D:D:D

[Saltiguy]

I used to live in Connecticut, and built many "Brockway-type" skiffs. My boats were similer to Earls' but were built using stainless fasteners, epoxy and fiberglass. I built them to last forever, and many are still sprinkled around Connecticut and the Eastern states. When I moved to Florida five years ago, I built a few but had a tough time finding buyers, which really surprised me, as the skiff is the Perfect design for Southwest Florida waters. Right now, I have a new 16' scow (Brockway clone but modern materials) that has gone unsold for over 6 months. It's a strange market here and I haven't been able to figure it out.

[Skiffboy]

I hope there are interested people! Otherwise i gone use it by myself its a very nice boat. here is a link with pic's http://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/boa/788746074.html :D

[Mrleft8]

Well, Fabian.... I grew up, and still live in the land of the "Brockway". A tougher boat is hard to find. Looks like you did a nice job there.... Next you need to build a "TRUE" Brockway.... A "Duck boat". Now THAT's a nearly indestructable piece of watercraft, that'll take you anywhere with a 20HP Johnson outboard and a Labrador retriever! :D

[Sailing reenactor]

You need to come help me build my first ever. 15 ft Winterhawk skiff. I know nothing of boat building.

[onobleboat]

Hello from O Noble Boat,
You been on my website? What ever, I been building boats here in Florida for many years but NEVER sold one down here, most if not all of my boats go up north, been mixing up models from skiffs to sail to canoes, if it don't have 200hp on the back forget it. But there is a market for nice traditional wood boats it is just not here, maybe you can have better luck than me, but If I were you and wanted to build wood boats in Florida, I would advertise them up north in New England.
Just one old wooden boatbuilders thoughts

[Saltiguy]

onobleboat...

My experience exactly. I tried selling wooden kayaks, skiffs and scows here in Florida, but it is a tough market. I built beautiful well-built boats and had them priced to sell - but little interest. When I was in Connecticut, I had a waiting list for the same boats.
By the way, here in Florida,I was building 16' skiffs, marine-ply, finely finished, fiberglassed w/West System, painted with Briteside, with heavy duty rub-rails, and had a hard time selling at only $1200.00. Gave it up!

[pipefitter]

Not many people are interested in wooden boats beyond novelty. Hanging here at the WBF may make it seem the interest has a much broader range but it's simply not true. Same reasons why most people will opt for hardi board or vinyl siding on their homes. Another thorn in the side is resale value, insurable value amongst damage done to wood reputation due to companies like Bayliner putting the crap they buried in their glass boats for a 5 year deal without worry beyond that.
Also, in Florida, high sided, flat bottomed boats fit a very narrow usage niche and low profile stealth types win out every time. After that it's dual purpose bay boats with some offshore capability thats all the rage now. Seems that the wife has much to say about what hubby can open the wallet for and even though he has sport of fishing in mind, the boat is going to serve double duty as the honey bunny's sun deck with rails to keep the kidlets in.

I have had several offers to sell mine well beyond what I have in it but then I would be without one again for how many years yet again so it's not for sale. If you have to sell handmade boats in FL, it needs to have a company reputation and warranty service sold with the goods and a sure footed place that they can bring it back to for repainting and other specialized care it may need from time to time instead of some back yard hobbyist calling themselves a boat business and it doesn't matter how fancy the business cards are if there is a chance you won't be around in a couple years.

[onobleboat]

Saltiguy
There is still a good market out there for the traditional boats, it is just not in Fl. I retired from the cabinet business last year ( Day Job ) and went full time back into wooden boats. True Story, had a really nice 14ft wherry here at the shop last year, a guy from the locall area came to look at it, I knew right away he was just a tire kicker and priced him the Wherry at $1500.00 just to see what he would do, got a "I'll think about it and get back with you" the boat went North soon after that at $7600. and the guy was happy with the price, so you don't have to give it up, just change your business plan and don't market your skills here in Florida. From the Carolinas northward is where the buyers are, now with the internet ,advertisings cost are a small factor just a time consuming one, I use a free web site and advertise on free boats for sale web sites, works for me and lets me keep on doing what I love to do " built traditional wooden boats "
http://www.freewebs.com/onobleboat/

[Kevin G]

Had a couple of Brockways, loved them.... Great craft

KG

[paladin]

Some months ago I did a redesign of the Great Pelican for my son. In 4 months he and a fellow he hired completed the hull and interior, painted it, then added the spars etc from the original Pelican....he took it sailing in Seattle and sold it two days later before taking any damn pictures for me....now they are building another. According to John, it sailed a helluva lot better than the original pelican, tracked better, steering was positive. I stretched the boat 16 inches, made a "V" bottom, deeper centerboard and rudder, a skeg ahead of the rudder, and a bit more ballast.......and his lady friend liked it because it had a "convenience room"........

[J. Dillon]

As Lefty said there are still Brockway's around here in CT. He didn't build them to look purty but to last and they sure do.:D;)

I have a couple near me in 1st class condition.:D

JD

[Skiffboy]

Thats gonna be a hot discussion!
Sorry, onoblebat yes i've been on your site.

And your boats are very very nice! but how you guys tryed to sell those boats? How long is that ago did u use the internet! what kind of advertisement strategies did you use?
What was the reactions on the boat Ramps when u put the woodenboat in the water?

[Saltiguy]

Some of you may not be familiar with Brockway Boats. Earl Brockway lived in Saybrook Ct. and died about 5 years ago. It was said that during his lifetime, he built 5,000 boats. The boats were skiffs and scows, mostly 14 or 16 foot, slapped together with A/C ply, roofing cement and galvanized roofing nails. They were used all up and down the coast by shellfishermen, contractors, and recreational boaters. For about $800.00 you could buy a 16 footer, slap on some Sherwin-Williams latex, an outboard motor, and you were in business.
I wrote an article about Earl in the April 1, 2007 issue of Messing About in Boats. He was an amazing man and it tickles me that others are now building skiffs and calling them "Brockways"

[Mrleft8]

Seth Pearson Boatworks is the only "legal" builder of Brockways as Earl sold them the rights to the name several (15+?) years ago. Pearson's moved from the Connecticut river shop that they'd had for generations to a steel prefab in Ivoryton a few years back. Not as romantic, but probably a lot easier to work in in winter...

[ARealBrockway]

Having come across this thread in a search I could not help but post a comment for the benefit of anyone who may be interested in building a Brockway style boat and may still come across this thread. Hope it does not offend any of you hard core forum addicts.

Although it is true that Persson Mfg wasted no time after Earle Brockway's death to infringe upon the Brockway trademark to try and help sell their "Brockway style" products I believe a great disservice is done by any individuals putting forward the misinformation that Persson Mfg (or anyone else) holds a patent on any Brockway boat design. It also shows a total lack of knowledge by said individuals of what Patents and Trademarks are.

The actual designs have always been in the public domain. Anyone with the desire had always been welcome to build their own "Brockway style" boat for personal use or even commercial production. That includes taking direct measurements off any Brockway boats as long as you are not using the Brockway name to sell them. If you can take measurments off of someone's Brockway boat or Brockway style boat or find the plans somewhere then feel free to do so. Its perfectly legal. I would suggest anyone who believes otherwise consult the US Patent and Trademark office.

So there you have it, anyone can build a "Brockway style" boat but of course only a Brockway can build a Brockway boat.

If you are interested in building one you can find "plans" in pdf format for 14 ft and 16 ft Brockway boats at www.soundschool.com (http://www.soundschool.com). I am sure they can be found elsewhere also. I, myself, had posted all of our skiff and pram/scow dims from 8 ft to 24 ft at some site online quite a few years back. I don't even remember the name of the site at this point but I believe like many wooden boat links that site shut down some time ago now.

I agree with pipefitter on the subject of selling wooden boats. In the mid '70s or so the demand for wooden boats started falling quite significantly. I think this was due to rising family incomes and pleasure boaters moving to the more desirable deep V fiberglass hulls. Boat rentals, who had always been good customers also ceased business due to insurance and liability issues. It was at this time that what people now associate as a Brockway boat came into being. It was really Earle's solution to staying in business selling what not many people wanted anymore - a cheap wooden boat. He was from the era when materials were the high cost ingredient of manufacturing and labor was the cheap end and it was reflected in his solution. He did not work 12 hrs a day 7 days a week because he liked building these boats so much, he did it because he averaged about $5 an hour. He would not hesitate to tell anyone that he did not enjoy building floating tar buckets but it was what he could sell.

As for building a Brockway boat, I'd say that using forms, fiberglass, epoxy resin or stainless steel in the construction of a Brockway style boat goes against the whole purpose and intent of its very existance. I believe there is a cardinal business rule about not putting expensive materials into a low priced product. I'm sure Earle would be laughing in his grave.

Brockway boats were built in Florida for a few years back in the mid '70s. We had to change the design a good bit and add live bait wells for them to sell. Sort of a wooden bass boat. I also built the Florida versions in South Carolina for a few years when I lived there. They never did sell as good down south due, I believe, to southerners liking aluminum boats better because they were lighter and had the modified V bottom. The lack of name recognition didn't help either.

Thought I'd share a few insights for those interested in the boats.

D L Brockway

[Auroradan]

Skiffboy,

About seven weeks ago (Wed August 12th to be exact) my friend sent me the link to the free Brockway plans site. That Friday I layed out the transom pattern on some MDO plywood.

Five weeks later (Friday September 18th) I launched her !! Even with my additions to the original Brockway design I had under power in VERY short time.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t4/auroradan/Brockway%2016%20Skiff/ThorneJerrydogandDan.jpg

Looking at the pic, the part under the White rub rail is original Brockway, I added 10" to the shear as I will be adding a standing wheelhouse and needed the extra depth to offset the height of the house.

Here is a link to my Photobucket page with many construction photos:
http://s156.photobucket.com/albums/t4/auroradan/Brockway%2016%20Skiff/

I say if you would like to have one of your own, run don't walk down to your fave lumber yard and "Git-er-Done" !!

I'm happy to offer any help I can if you build one.

Dan

[HappyJack]

Dan: I too am intrigued by the Brockway. I would love you input on how it handles - especially in a chop. I want a boat to take the family out fishing in but don't want to get them too sea sick if the wind picks up.

Thanks

Scotty

[Saltiguy]

Here's a article I wrote a few years back that was published in "Messing about in Boats" magazine.



A Magnificent Obsession



by Captain Saltiguy


If you examine a map of Connecticut, you’ll see the Connecticut River running from north to south and just where it empties into Long Island Sound, you’ll find the little town of Old Saybrook. Now at the mouth of most major rivers in the US you’d expect to find a city, but not so in this case. The mouth of the Connecticut River is notoriously shoal and the only navigable channel requires regular dredging and is unsuited for large ships. Consequently, there’s never been a seaport in this locale so instead, you have Old Saybrook; a collection of summer cottages, about 12,000 inhabitants, a scattering of businesses and a good selection of drinking establishments. The locals like to quip that Old Saybrook is “A quaint little drinking town with a fishing problem” The town has had two famous residents, now both deceased. The first was Katherine Hepburn – a name recognized by everyone. In the early 1900’s many of the monied families in Connecticut built large, imposing “cottages” along the shoreline. Typically, these were frame construction with large porches on two or three sides to catch the breezes and finished in cedar shakes in the New England style. In Old Saybrook, there is an enclave of these big homes, a borough designated as Fenwick – sort of an early version of what we now call a gated community – but without the gates. The Hepburn family built one of these big homes where the children enjoyed their summers. Little Katherine grew up to be a world famous actress and won four Academy Awards, but she always returned to Old Saybrook right up to the time of her death in 2003. Over the years most of the big homes have changed hands. The old blue bloods have now been replaced by politicians, lobbyists and those fellows who like to wear the gold chains and pinkie rings.

The other famous resident of Old Saybrook lived on the other side of town. In fact it’s about as far as you can travel in town both economically and in actual distance to get to the former homestead of Earl Brockway. The house is gone now, destroyed by fire a few years ago after Earl’s death, and it’s a pity, because by my reckoning, the place should be a shrine; a Mecca; a destination for everyone who calls himself a boatbuilder to go and pay homage to a man who arguably was America’s most prolific boatbuilder.

If you never heard of Earl Brockway it’s not surprising, as Earl was a local legend, and was generally unknown beyond southern New England. However, when I tell you a little about him you’ll understand why I feel he deserves his rightful place in the boatbuilders’ Hall of Fame (if there was such a thing.)

Earl Brockway built 5,000 boats! That number has never been established as fact and Earl never kept any records, but informed folks who knew Earl all agree on that number. However, if you’re a skeptical person like myself, you might wonder, as I did, how one man, working alone, could build 5,000 boats - so I did the math. Earl died at 74 years, and assuming he built boats for 54 years and worked 365 days a year (which he did), that comes to 19,710 days. Divide that by 5,000 and that gives you 3.942, or 4 days per boat. If you knew Earl and were familiar with his work habits and if you know the boats, the figure of one boat every 4 days is entirely realistic. In fact, it’s widely known that back in the 50’s and 60’s when boat liveries were so popular Earl built thousands of his boats in one day or less. The man was a boatbuilding machine! These boats were skiffs and scows mostly in sizes of 12, 14, or 16 foot, and slapped together in what I now call “Brockway style”- that is plywood construction, fastened with galvanized shingle nails and the seams glopped up with good old roofing cement. Crude? Absolutely! Practical and efficient? You bet!

He worked alone, at a quick pace, 7 days a week (and at night under lights as well), year round in the New England weather and he never let up. I’ve seen him working in the rain, sleet, snow and freezing wind. It didn’t matter to Earl, he was a man obsessed with building boats. Although he lived as a recluse, he was generally hospitable to visitors. He would volunteer little in the way of conversation, but was always polite and well spoken to me on my occasional visits. At times, his appearance could be shocking. He was a small man, slender, with sinewy arms and was very strong. His clothing was as dirty as dirty can get, actually infused with sweat, grime and roofing cement. This is not said to be unkind, but with all his attributes, no one would ever say that personal hygiene was anywhere on the list. He seemed impervious to cold or discomfort, often working in the coldest of weather in old broken shoes without socks and wearing just a light jacket. I doubt if he ever wore gloves. His home could only be described as a hovel. Located at the dead end of a narrow lane, the Cape Cod style house was ancient and completely dilapidated, with no paint and missing window sash covered from the inside with scraps of cloth and cardboard. Around the property on both sides of the street were his boats; some under construction and many others awaiting a buyer. Untrimmed underbrush and discarded junk were everywhere. One would never imagine or believe that a person would inhabit such a place but Earl spent his lifetime there, building his boats.

His methods were a combination of primitive and ingenious. Transoms were ¾” ply, sometimes doubled, sometimes not, sides ½” ply with butt blocks, stems were anything handy, sometimes 2x4, sometimes 4x4 beveled with a hatchet , bottoms ¾” ply, cross- planked and fastened to pine or fir chines along with a few 2x4 frames as nailers for the bottom seams. Sheerstrakes were anything handy from a furring strip to a 2x4. Depending on his mood, he might scab in a seat or two. Every boat was different, but the common elements to all Brockway boats were the shingle nails and roofing cement both of which he used to great excess. That was it. The boats were built upside down, on the ground. To establish the shape and beam, he drove stakes into the ground and bent the sides around them. The product was rough, even crude, but Earl built to his own standard and never tried to get “fancy”. The only tools I ever saw him use were a hammer, skillsaw, jigsaw and a hatchet. If he used a tape measure or a pencil, I never saw them, and as far as I know, he built completely by eye. For certain, no paint or sandpaper was ever used. There’s no question that he was capable of far better work, but he really just wanted to do it his own way. A friend of mine told me that for years he tried to persuade Earl to build him a 16 foot skiff using good plywood, stainless steel boat nails and 3M5200 adhesive. My friend would furnish the materials and pay Earl a good price for the work. Earl wasn’t interested.

Boat liveries, marinas, contractors, shell fishermen, working watermen and some recreational fishermen loved Brockway boats, and no wonder. For about 600 bucks, depending on the size of the boat and on Earl’s mood, you could buy a skiff. Slap on some latex house paint, add an outboard motor and you were in business with a boat that was reasonably seaworthy, could carry a big load and would last a few years until you either began an endless cycle of repair to keep the water out or simply bought a new Brockway. In the early years, Earl would deliver many of his boats, and it was a common sight in those days to see him on Long Island Sound in his skiff towing a string of new boats behind, maybe ten or a dozen at one time, looking so much like a momma duck with her brood following along. He’d be heading to buyers along the Connecticut shore, or often to Long Island where there was a high demand for his boats.


Everyone who knew Earl has his favorite story, and I’ll share one of them with you as it was told to me by one of the locals: On occasion, Earl would stop building boats long enough to drive into town to stock up on necessities. His mode of transportation was an old Cadillac sedan of early 60’s vintage – a total junker. It was all rusted up with missing body parts and had broken glass, no exhaust, no gas tank and no working brakes. Not to be deterred by such details, Earl had rigged it up with a red plastic 6 gallon marine-type gas tank secured to the roof with bungee cords and a gas line feeding directly to the carburetor – gravity feed. When he drove slowly into town he created quite a spectacle in his heap with no mufflers, but all the locals, including the cops, knew it was Earl and paid no mind. To get into town there was one steep hill leading to a bridge that crossed the railroad tracks. Earl had learned to navigate this route without brakes, driving slowly up the hill, crossing the bridge, and using low gear to descend the other side. One day however there was a traffic back-up going up the hill, so Earl had to stop and wait a few minutes. The angle of the hill was too much for the gravity fed gas system however, and as the car sputtered and ran out of gas Earl had to put the car in “park” to keep from rolling backwards into the cars behind him. So there he was with no drivers license, stuck in traffic in a car with no brakes, no plates, no insurance and no mufflers. The local cops who had always turned a blind eye to Earl’s forays into town finally and reluctantly were forced to address the situation and so, after advising Earl that he was henceforth “grounded”, the Caddy was towed back to the house where Earl would use it to move boats around.


Continued - WBF allows only 10,000 characters. The rest will follow as soon as I can figure out how to do it.

[ShagRock]

Great story and a nice piece of writing! Looking forward to Chapter II.

[MiddleAgesMan]

There's a good reason wooden boats are hard to sell in Florida--the climate is murder on them.

When I lived in St. Augustine I met a guy who was making a good living buying wooden boats in Florida when the owners got tired of all the maintenance. He would buy very cheap, then fix them up to true yacht standards, sail them up to the north east and get top dollar for them. He'd been at it for about 10 years when I knew him. For all I know he's still at it and is probably living very comfortably.

[Saltiguy]

Here's the balance of the story about Earl Brockway:


Continued...........
This was a remarkable man who lived a remarkable life. He bothered no one and really just wanted to be left alone to build and sell his boats and for many years he operated successfully as a low-profile ”backyard” builder, even though he was selling thousands of boats. You could get away with it back in those days. He had no telephone and did no advertising but people from everywhere beat a path to his door. Eventually however, regulations caught up with him. First it was hull numbers, and the Coast Guard made him register as a boatbuilder and issue hull numbers. Then they forced him to add “upright and level” flotation to his boats. This was a joke because buyers would rip out the cheesy flotation just as soon as they got the boat. Then the state got after him about registering as a business and collecting sales taxes, and then they went on to do all the countless things that Connecticut bureaucrats do to make life difficult and complicated for a small businessman. The good old days were over for Earl and for the last few years of his life he longed for the simplicity he had enjoyed in earlier years.

When he died, I was told that he had suffered a massive heart attack while building a boat and that he was dead before he hit the ground, holding his hammer in his hand. I hope this is true. It’s the way he would have wanted it, and it would have been a perfect finale for one of America’s greatest boatbuilders

[davebrown]

this has the makings of a good folk song, if such things were useful and desired nowadays. it's a good story, and well-written. i hope i die with a hammer in my hand, singing, this hammer killed john henry, but it won't kill me, lord it won't kill me...

[Auroradan]

Captain Saltiguy,

That is a great story, even if I were not building one myself. Parts of my own life mirror his.

When building a boat, I'm all in it day or night, knee deep in saw dust. My pickup is rusted and painted many colors. Just a week ago I found out that my rear brakes do not work (while towing a boat none the less!). My version of a Brockway has lumber in it that has been laying around my house for years. Instead of hatchet I used a 4" metal grinder to remove copious amounts of wood. And lastly, don't come by my shop (well it's really just an open car port) and tell me how to build, for I may find my hatchet and demonstrate it's many other uses ;-)

Dan

[Saltiguy]

Captain Saltiguy,

That is a great story, even if I were not building one myself. Parts of my own life mirror his.

When building a boat, I'm all in it day or night, knee deep in saw dust. My pickup is rusted and painted many colors. Just a week ago I found out that my rear brakes do not work (while towing a boat none the less!). My version of a Brockway has lumber in it that has been laying around my house for years. Instead of hatchet I used a 4" metal grinder to remove copious amounts of wood. And lastly, don't come by my shop (well it's really just an open car port) and tell me how to build, for I may find my hatchet and demonstrate it's many other uses ;-)

Dan

Yeah, Dan, I think you have the spirit of the thing.